ciasim: citalopram up and down in short time - severe withdrawal symptoms

March 21, 2020

Thanks Shep

I took the original dose as you recommended

March 21, 2020

On 3/20/2020 at 9:24 AM, Altostrata said:

When you take drugs inconsistently, it probably will make your symptom pattern inconsistent. This will last at least several days. You may or may not feel significant symptoms.

18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

As explained earlier, when you take your drugs inconsistently, your symptom pattern is affected. Making a mistake in your sertraline dosage may make you feel worse for some days.

It is not fair to us that you require us to repeat our advice over and over. Stop asking the same question repeatedly. If you have a question but cannot remember the answer, re-read your topic again from the beginning.

As we've advised you over and over, take the same dosage at the same time every day. Take 75mg today. Take 75mg tomorrow. Do NOT randomly take 25mg.

Please do NOT post with general complaints of your symptoms. We want to see the daily symptom notes.

March 21, 2020

On 3/17/2020 at 3:05 PM, Colonial said:

On 3/17/2020 at 9:39 AM, ciasim said:

Have people recovered from several destabilizations of CNS?

Yes, you keep asking this, so maybe you want to write it down in large letters on an 8 by 10 sheet of paper and tape it next to your bed.

"Most people recover from several destabilization's" then, you will see it a few times a day and remember.

Did you forget to write that down on a piece of paper and put it somewhere you will see it often? Because Your asking the same question again.

If writing is too much, copy and paste, and email it to yourself.

Do this with every important answer, soon, you will have a list of things to read everyday or even twice a day.

If you honestly cant remember you have to do something so you will see the answers, that is why writing things down in a notebook is helpful.

That way you do not have to keep finding a needle in a haystack looking back through your thread.

There's so much "quoting" of entire posts that a good part of your thread is the same material reposted over and over, which is to some extent helpful, but also makes it difficult to find answers to questions you know you've already asked.

March 22, 2020

@Altostrata and @Shep

Journal of symptoms March 21 & 22

21 march

6.30 Woke up
Slept less than usual, fell asleep around 2 am

11.30
zoned out, 6/10
Derealisation 6/10
Electrical spine feeling 5/10

11.00 take 75 mg sertraline

12.00
Zoned out 6/10
Derealisation 6/10
Anxiety in body 5/10

2pm went for walk with partner
Derealisation 8/10
Feeling zoned out 8/10
Perception and coordination out of sync 6/10

4pm derealisation 7/10
Feeling zoned out 7/10
Legs walking by themselves feeling 4/10
Ears ringing 6/10

7pm went to grocery store with partner
Derealisation 7/10
Zoned out 7/10
Legs walking by themselves feeling 5/10

Desoriented and dizzy

Perception & coordination out of sync 6/10

9pm

Derealisation 5/10
Feeling zones out 5/10
Legs walking bythemselfes feeling 5/10

10 pm

Derealisation 5/10
Zoned out 5/10
Legs walking bythemselfes feeling 5/10

12 pm
Last few days I have started to feel very tired earlier in evenings. Fell asleep in sofa

01 am went to bed
Feeling dizzy
Derealisation 6/10
Feeling zoned out 5/10

22 march

9 am woke up. Have a neuroemotion of fear.

11.00 75mf sertraline
Derealisation 6/10
Feeling zoned out 6/10

13.00 go for walk with partner
Derealisation 8/10
Feelinf zoned out 8/10
Coordination & perception out of sync 7/10
Disorientation 6/10

15.00 body anxiety 7/10
Derealisation 7/10
Feeling zoned out 7/10

17.00
Body anxiety 7/10
Derealisation 7/10
Feeling zoned out 7/10
Perception and coordination out of sync 6/10

19.00
Eara ringing
Derealisation 7/10
Feeling zoned out 7/10
Lefs walking by themselves feeling 6/10
Electrical spine 6/10

21.00
Derealisation 6/10
Zoned out 6/10
Electrical spine feeling 6/10
Coordination & perception out of sync 7/10
Eyesight blurry 5/10

22.00 take 150 mg quetiapine

22.30 walk to bed.
Derealisation 6/10
Zoned out 6/10
Electrical spine feeling 6/10
Coordination & perception out of sync 7/10
Eyesight blurry 5/10

@Altostrataand @Shepcan I ask,

what your thoughts are on my case?

I have a friend keep telling me to go of quetapine all together - before getting used to it. I hate the drug. But also feel very destabilized. After halfing the dose 11 days ago derealisation and disconnectedness have increased significantly.

I am dysfunctional. - moving around I am desoriented, zoned out, perception and coordination is out of sync. Like I have been thrown out of a high speed mixer. It's a horrifying experiece. Are the notes in my journal mirroring this correctly? Sorry for complaining. Just want to give a picture and ask on your take on how to journal and how to proceed.

March 23, 2020

When did you take quetiapine on March 21, or did you skip it?

2 hours ago, ciasim said:

12 pm
Last few days I have started to feel very tired earlier in evenings. Fell asleep in sofa

Please include this in your daily notes. I can't see how getting sleepy in the evening is a sign of anything but stabilization. It's better than withdrawal insomnia, isn't it?

As you know, we have urged you to stop changing your drugs and stay on the same drug schedule to allow your nervous system to settle down. If you change your drugs again "just because", I will ask you to leave this site.

This is how you felt when you were taking 300mg quetiapine:

On 2/24/2020 at 5:01 AM, ciasim said:

Please help, should I stay on 75mg sertraline?

Should I go of quetiapine? I ve only been on them for 2 weeks.

Symptoms above gotten worse and worse the last 10 days.

Started quetapin 300 mg for 14 days ago. Went up to 75 mg sertraline 9 days ago.

Please, I am having a real hard time.

Have unfortunately taken Ativan to be able to deal with panic and suicidal thoughts.

On 3/8/2020 at 8:15 AM, ciasim said:

8am wake up. Not anxious. But worried about my situation and dreadful of going up and experience all symptoms again.

Lay in bed and torment myself with grief, regret and my incapacity to deal with this.

11.00 not anxious but get up and immediately get the outzoned feeling, derealisarion a bit less. The legs walking by them self - feelin still there but not as intense as yesterday. Take 75 mg sertraline.

12.00 force my self to do some housework, feel anxious and outzoned all the time, a little bit derealisation. The leg walking themself thing is there but not as intense as yesterday evening.

13.00 force my self to go for a walk. Derealisation, feeling

outspaced and a feeling or legs walking by them self. Distressing. But not panicking

15.00 eat a sandwich. Feel detached and outzoned. A bit anxious. A bit dizzy

16.00 anxious, a bit derealisation. Outzoned. Low tinnitus.

On 3/9/2020 at 12:16 PM, ciasim said:

Moderators, sorry for being so desperate but it seems like symptoms are ramping up. I cannot be sure but everything went downhill when I started quetapin 300mg.

And then there is the extreme hard question- should I stay on it in order to not destabilize? Or is it time to go of?

I m really struggling, feel suicidal everyday. My husband took me to the ER tonight because of me not coping.

I post today's symptoms here. I know you want me to collect 24 hours. I will do that. Just feel so desperate.

8.00 am wake up, calm but sad and despairing. Feel like I want to die. Lay in bed until 11.

11 am sertralìn 75 mg
Derealisation, depersonalization
Zoned out. Leg thing and electrical feeling almost nothing.

12.00 took a walk. Derealisation continues. A little bit leg walking by them self feeling but nothing compared to yesterday evening

1pm derealisation continues

A little bit leg walking by them self feeling but nothing compared to yesterday evening

2 pm still derealisation
A little bit leg walking by them self feeling but nothing compared to yesterday evening

3 pm derealisation, burning ,tingling feeling in face. Derealisation distressing

4 pm talk another walk cause I cant stand my thoughts. High degree of derealisation the whole walk. Dizzy and disoriented. Feeling of not being able to walk a straight line.

5pm derealisation, dizzy, problems walking straight. Legs walking being pushed from behind feeling is showing up

6 pm
derealisation, dizzy, problems walking straight. Legs walking being pushed from behind feeling is showing up
Some chemical anxiety creeping in. Also involuntary mouth shivering. Tingling in feet

7 pm feeling of walking on a boat appears. Bad derealisation
. Legs walking being pushed from behind feeling is bad. Tonight all symptom is amped up.

daily notes should show information I need to know, such as

- how you feel before and after you take your drugs

Symptoms seem to ramp up in late afternoon and then become worse in the evening.

-

ciasim, can you honestly say you feel worse now than when you were taking 300mg quetiapine?

How about the electrical feeling, has that gotten better or worse?

How about the "legs moving by themselves", has that gotten better or worse?

How about the "mouth shivering", has that gotten better or worse?

When you came here last November, it seemed you had a pretty clear case of citalopram withdrawal syndrome. However, you followed your doctor's advice to switch to sertaline in February and have been tweaking a drug cocktail prescribed by him ever since, making your situation much more complicated.

Yes, you feel poorly, having reduced and changed and switched and gone up and down in psychiatric drugs. We do not have any magic to instantly fix your doctor's errors.

You need to put more effort into self-soothing, no one else can do it for you.

Now, honestly, do you feel better or worse? Because if you feel worse and you think the reduction in quetiapine is responsible, it would be very easy for you to go back to your doctor and get more quetiapine and continue your drug experiments with him.

March 23, 2020

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

When did you take quetiapine on March 21, or did you skip it?

Oh I cant believe I missed to write that again. I am sorry. I took it 10 pm as usually. Sorry for the mistake.

Quote

Please include this in your daily notes. I can't see how getting sleepy in the evening is a sign of anything but stabilization. It's better than withdrawal insomnia, isn't it?

As you know, we have urged you to stop changing your drugs and stay on the same drug schedule to allow your nervous system to settle down. If you change your drugs again "just because", I will ask you to leave this site.

Havnt changed any drugs since lowering quetapin from 300 to 150 mg.

Just me forgot to out 150 mg quetiapine I journal notes for the 21st of March

Quote

This is how you felt when you were taking 300mg quetiapine:

ciasim, can you honestly say you feel worse now than when you were taking 300mg quetiapine?

I think derealisation, feeling spaced out, has become worse. Yes.

Symptoms that has lessened: feeling of brain being crocked/tilted to the left.

Quote

How about the electrical feeling, has that gotten better or worse?

Slightly better

Quote

How about the "legs moving by themselves", has that gotten better or worse?

I would say pretty much the same, if one direction, slightly less

Quote

How about the "mouth shivering", has that gotten better or worse?

This has slowed down, have it a few minutes per day, some days not at all. Before had it more.

Quote

When you came here last November, it seemed you had a pretty clear case of citalopram withdrawal syndrome. However, you followed your doctor's advice to switch to sertaline in February and have been tweaking a drug cocktail prescribed by him ever since, making your situation much more complicated.

I know. I was switched to sertraline in early january.

I was so bad I was suicidal and was admitted in november. Not suicidal because of depression - suicidal because if withdrawal.

Opposed doctors suggestion on switching, telling them about withdrawals. They refused to listen and gave me more or less no choice. I asked them several times if it really was wise to change meds, and that I feared getting withdrawals again. I wish I had trusted my gut but at that time I still had 10 % trust of psychiatrist left. I had two of them saying it would be for the best. Today I have no trust left for them

Quote

Yes, you feel poorly, having reduced and changed and switched and gone up and down in psychiatric drugs. We do not have any magic to instantly fix your doctor's errors.

You need to put more effort into self-soothing, no one else can do it for you.

Now, honestly, do you feel better or worse? Because if you feel worse and you think the reduction in quetiapine is responsible, it would be very easy for you to go back to your doctor and get more quetiapine and continue your drug experiments with him.

Not much better, unfortunately.

Electrical spine feelin has lessen a bit, and legs walking by themseldes maybe a little. As well as mouth thing.

One symptom that has left is the feeling of brain being"tilted" to the left.

But instead experienced worsened

derealisation and being cut of

of, and perception and Movement out of sync.

However, I dont think going back on quetapine would solve anything. I don't want to " experiment with drugs" - it has never been my intention and I never had. I was put in this position because of citalopram poop out and then adverse reaction when reinstating. I was labeled troublesome at the hospital because of not wanting to take more drugs that I already did, I was def not ignorant of psychotropic drugs bad effects. I felt totally helpless and took the little trust o had left and put it in psychiatrist.

Wish I hadn't.

I am not pro-drugs - quite the opposite.

I just hope to get some guidance in order to survive this situation.

I can't be the first being put on new meds while in withdrawal? Please help me, I don't aim to stay on drugs. I am not pro drugs. Just need guidance from professionals in withdrawal, not doctors.

March 23, 2020

We have many people here who have made drug changes while in withdrawal.

According to what you told us, you were not taking 300mg quetiapine for very long; that makes it unlikely you got withdrawal symptoms from halving the dose.

But if you honestly feel you were doing better when you are taking more quetiapine, perhaps you should consider increasing it again.

My guess is you were not doing better, that is what your earlier posts show. In fact, you were exhibiting a slight movement disorder (the mouth shivering) and possibly a paradoxical reaction (leg activation), which indicate your drug burden was too high.

Most likely, the decrease in quetiapine had no significant effect, other than to decrease some of the adverse effects, which is a beneficial outcome. But cutting quetiapine did not fix your withdrawal syndrome and other adverse drug reactions.

My guess is you are mistaking the symptoms that arise from drug switches, withdrawal, and possibly too much sertraline and quetiapine at present levels for some deterioration caused by the decrease in quetiapine.

However, if you feel you were doing better on more quetiapine, perhaps you should increase it. The decision is up to you.

If you decide you do not want to increase quetiapine, I would like you to stop complaining about it and focus on developing coping skills for the symptoms you do have.

March 23, 2020

Thanks @Altostrata

I dont want to go back on 300 mg quetiapine.

Trying to stay calm and hope for betterment.

March 23, 2020

@Altostrata

What is your suggestion for me going forward? Stay on this combination- 150 mg quetiapine and 75 mg sertraline or make further reductions to quetiapine?

March 23, 2020

you need to let your nervous system settle down, so please do not change anything in your dosage! It might be that you still have some adverse effects from the quetiapine, but most of your symptoms are from changing so much in your meds!
if there are adverse effects from the quetiapine, we might be able to see them in a few months when your symptoms are the same from day to day.

Further reductions right now would only destabilize you more!

March 23, 2020

Just now, Gaebbi said:

you need to let your nervous system settle down, so please do not change anything in your dosage! It might be that you still have some adverse effects from the quetiapine, but most of your symptoms are from changing so much in your meds!
if there are adverse effects from the quetiapine, we might be able to see them in a few months when your symptoms are the same from day to day.

Thanks Gaebbi.

I think so to, but I also have a lot of people telling me what an awful drug quetiapine is and that I should try to get of it as soon as possible.

So stressful

@Altostrataand @Shepwhat is your take on this?

March 23, 2020

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

My guess is you were not doing better, that is what your earlier posts show. In fact, you were exhibiting a slight movement disorder (the mouth shivering) and possibly a paradoxical reaction (leg activation), which indicate your drug burden was too high.

I'm going to echo what Alto wrote here. The movement disorder could be the beginnings of tardive dyskinesia, a side effect of high-dose antipsychotics.

Tardive dyskinesia or involuntary movements

Because the higher doses of antipsychotics are related to the more severe side effects, we've been trying to get your dose reduced.

But it's very hard to tell if you're doing better or not.

Do you think you could handle another decrease down to 125 mg? This would get you farther away from quetiapine's dopamine action and more toward the histamine affects and decrease the likelihood that you'll develop full blown tardive dyskinesia.

You may have some upticks in symptoms, so please let us know if this is what you want to do and if you can use non-drug coping skills to handle any upticks in symptoms. Knowing what you're preventing in the way of a movement disorder may help you put this in perspective and make any upticks in symptoms worth suffering through in order to get the dose reduced before you become dependent on it. In the long run, you'll likely feel a lot better on the reduced dose, but this needs to be your call.

March 23, 2020

1 minute ago, Shep said:

I'm going to echo what Alto wrote here. The movement disorder could be the beginnings of tardive dyskinesia, a side effect of high-dose antipsychotics.

Tardive dyskinesia or involuntary movements

Because the higher doses of antipsychotics are related to the more severe side effects, we've been trying to get your dose reduced.

But it's very hard to tell if you're doing better or not.

I know, I cant really tell my self either. I mostly see a drastic uptick in derealisation, being cut of and disoriented.

I don't think the description of tardive dyskinesia mirrors my symptoms. The involuntary mouth shivering has lessened a bit, but I was connecting that to SSRI withdrawal? Have read that its a common withdrawal phenomenon?

1 minute ago, Shep said:

Do you think you could handle another decrease down to 125 mg? This would get you farther away from quetiapine's dopamine action and more toward the histamine affects and decrease the likelihood that you'll develop full blown tardive dyskinesia.

Not sure, I mean it sounds good but also scary in behalf of further destabilization.
How would you proceed if decreasing to 125? I have tried to read the instruction for tapering quetiapine but cant really grasp how I would do it since I am on 150 mg Extended release.

I will se a psychiatrist on Wednesday ( not that I think they will help me, hospital booked an appointment). In what way can they help me to reduce since I am going on 150 mg extended release?

Thankful for your advice.

You may have some upticks in symptoms, so please let us know if this is what you want to do and if you can use non-drug coping skills to handle any upticks in symptoms. Knowing what you're preventing in the way of a movement disorder may help you put this in perspective and make any upticks in symptoms worth suffering through in order to get the dose reduced before you become dependent on it. In the long run, you'll likely feel a lot better on the reduced dose, but this needs to be your call.

March 23, 2020

2 minutes ago, ciasim said:

The involuntary mouth shivering has lessened a bit, but I was connecting that to SSRI withdrawal? Have read that its a common withdrawal phenomenon?

It's more common with antipsychotics, but it can happen with SSRIs, too. When did the mouth shivering start?

3 minutes ago, ciasim said:

How would you proceed if decreasing to 125? I have tried to read the instruction for tapering quetiapine but cant really grasp how I would do it since I am on 150 mg Extended release.

Are you able to get 25 mg tablets? You could switch over to the smaller tablets and take 25 mg in the morning and 100 mg at night for sleep. This will help with any interdose withdrawal from going off the extended release (please double-check me, but I don't think the 25 mg comes in extended release).

Or if you feel you could handle dropping down to 100 mg, you could get the the 50 mg extended release pills and take two at night.

Since you were last at 75 mg on February 11, you may do okay with 100 mg. That will get you out of the dopamine effects and down to the histamine effects, where it's a safer drug.

March 23, 2020

I have 25 mg tablets at home.

But not 100 mg extended release. In that case I will have to get that from the doctor on Wednesday.

Have to admit I am quite stressed about this decision.

Pro: I will get down from dopamine affecting levels

Con: I will risk further destabilization

@Altostrata
what is your take on this?

I have made a lot of changes.

March 23, 2020

4 hours ago, ciasim said:

I mostly see a drastic uptick in derealisation, being cut of and disoriented.

These are symptoms that are very much affected by your attitude. Generally, this fades with time. As far as withdrawal syndrome goes, your current symptom pattern is one where we generally tell people to hold on, be patient, use self-soothing techniques, let nature do its work.

I cannot see how increasing quetiapine would make you feel less distanced, the drug tends to make people dopey.

If you insist you need more quetiapine anyway, that's your choice. I'm not a doctor, it is my personal opinion that reduction in quetiapine has not caused your problems. In fact, the "legs moving" symptom may still be from too much quetiapine or too much quetiapine with sertraline.

As Shep said, it's wise to minimize quetiapine, it's a drug that can cause many long-term problems.

I hope you don't mind, I am not going to discuss increasing quetapine again. If you want more quetiapine, talk to your doctor and go to him or her for management of the consequences.

March 23, 2020

Sorry @Altostrata but it must be a misunderstanding, I have not even mentioned going back up on 300 mg.

5 hours ago, ciasim said:

@Altostrata

What is your suggestion for me going forward? Stay on this combination- 150 mg quetiapine and 75 mg sertraline or make further reductions to quetiapine?

I definitely don't want to go back on 300 mg. No question about it.

My question is if I should hold as you normally would advice people in my situation

or decrease quetiapine.

March 23, 2020

You've expressed so much anxiety so often about the quetiapine reduction, it seemed your regret over making that change took over your thoughts.

If a reduction causes you so much anxiety, don't make it until you feel you're ready. We do not want to hold your hand through more rounds of questioning the decision.

This is how you do it: You decide if you want to reduce, you make the reduction, you push your anxiety back and watch for the results of the reduction. Then you report any withdrawal symptoms. You make decisions based on the results.

To go off psychiatric drugs, you have to manage your habit of self-doubt. Minimizing quetiapine might be in the best interests of your body's health, but you cannot do it if you are going to torment yourself and us with the endless questioning about whether it was a good idea.

You need to make a decision: Do you want to make another step towards minimizing quetiapine now, or do you want to wait a while, coasting on your current drug schedule?

March 23, 2020

Trust yourself Ciasim. I think it was a good thing you did earlier, you wrote down the pros and cons of decreasing the dosage. Base your decision off that and stick to it imo. Some people would wait, some wouldn't.

In my opinion Shep had a good argument for why someone should maybe not wait.

Another thing is that the psychiatric hospital can't force you to do anything as long as you stand your ground. I know how persistant they can be, but once again I'd say to trust yourself.

Good luck whatever you decide. Take care.

March 24, 2020

@Sunnyday thanks for your support.

Means a lot!

March 24, 2020

@Altostrataand @Shep

Here is my journal for today.

Will answer your questions in later post.

Thankful if you could take a look at my journal below

March 24

09.00 am woke up

10.30 go up
Zoned out 6/10
Derealisation 7/10
Electrical feeling in spine 5/10
Coordination perception out of sync 4/10
Shaky, anxious in body 5/10

11.00 take 75 mg sertraline

13.00 doctors visit
Zoned out 7/10
Derealisation 7/10
Electrical feeling in spine 5/10
Coordination perception out of sync 6/10
Anxiety and shaky in body 6/10

14.30 short walk with partner
Derealisation 7/10
Zoned out 7/10
Coordination perception out of sync 7/10
Electrical feeling in spine 7/10

Desorientation 6/10

Feeling of being thrown out of highspeed mixer 7/10

17.00 - 22.00 symptoms the same as above

22.pm take 150 mg quetiapine

23 pm
Blurry eyesight

Ears ringing
Coordination perception out of sync 6/10
Legs walking by themselfe feeling 6/10
Derealisarion 6/10

Electrified while walking 7/10

Desorientation 6/10

00.00 go to bed

March 24, 2020

On 3/23/2020 at 7:28 PM, Altostrata said:

You've expressed so much anxiety so often about the quetiapine reduction, it seemed your regret over making that change took over your thoughts.

If a reduction causes you so much anxiety, don't make it until you feel you're ready. We do not want to hold your hand through more rounds of questioning the decision.

This is how you do it: You decide if you want to reduce, you make the reduction, you push your anxiety back and watch for the results of the reduction. Then you report any withdrawal symptoms. You make decisions based on the results.

To go off psychiatric drugs, you have to manage your habit of self-doubt. Minimizing quetiapine might be in the best interests of your body's health, but you cannot do it if you are going to torment yourself and us with the endless questioning about whether it was a good idea.

You need to make a decision: Do you want to make another step towards minimizing quetiapine now, or do you want to wait a while, coasting on your current drug schedule?

@Altostrata and @Shep
Thanks.

I went to a psychiatrist today, booked appointment from hospital. Not that I thought it would help me, but went anyway. They will be the ones handing out the prescriptions.

Thankfully the psychiatrist was treating me as an equal and human being. Said that according to previous journals she was expecting to meet a several depressed borderline psychotic individual and that her impression of me was not even close to that.

Needless to say, I am today traumatized of how I was gaslighted and treated at the psychiatric units. I have ever since November this year tried to tell doctors I am suffering from wihtdrawals and adverse drug reactions. No-one has believed me. Wish I got out of those units much faster and without quetiapine.

Anyway, she said she honestly haven seen anything like that and that she wanted to consult colleagues before doing any drastic changes. They will also do serum-test of the drugs level in my blood. But I guess that won't revile much?

I have decided to wait a few more days before I take decision whether to lower the quetapine dose. No surprise I find this to be a hard call. Lowering harmfull drug vs risking further destabilization.

March 25, 2020

I am glad you were able to have a reasonable conversation with the new psychiatrist. What you display here is that you are constantly questioning your own sanity and capabilities.

While you seem to have drug-related symptoms, your worst symptoms are the ones you might dispel with a different perspective on who you are. That last post was in a completely different voice, not the one tormented by doubt.

There may be some useful information here:

Quote

22.pm take 150 mg quetiapine

23 pm
Blurry eyesight

Ears ringing
Coordination perception out of sync 6/10
Legs walking by themselfe feeling 6/10
Derealisarion 6/10

Electrified while walking 7/10

Desorientation 6/10

After you took the quetiapine, did those symptoms become worse? How about the leg movement?

March 31, 2020

Hi @Altostrata, thanks for your kind response

Hi to you as well, dear @Shep

I havnt posted my daily symptoms here for a couple of days because I wanted to wait and see I'd there's a pattern, getting the impression that symptoms are pretty much the same every day.

And now 6 days later I can tell symptoms are pretty much the same every day.

Most hours of the day I feel like this

Zoned out,
Derealisation
Feeling of being electrified
Perception coordination out of sync
Desoriented feeling

Ears ringing
Feeling of legs being pushed forward
I still can't drive and it's hard being outside or go for groceries alone. Body feels "amplified" and "electrified" , and with perception out of sync at the same time makes it a quite distressing experience.

These symptoms tend to get worse until 5-6 pm and then ease up a bit the closer to bedtime I get. Symptoms seems to be least prior to bed and when waking up.

All mornings until about 3 pm includes low grade anxiety and unease.

I take 75mg sertraline 11 am

150 mg quetiapine 10 pm

I havnt seen any improvement these last days, but things hasn't become worse either. Trying to be grateful for that!
I havnt either decided what's best for me regarding quetiapine- taper down to 125 mg in order to get of dopamine affecting levels or wait to stabilize a very destabilized cns

My gut feeling says wait, because I feel so dysfunctional. But I also fear being stuck to 150 mg quetiapine dopamine levels and then having to endure awful withdrawals.

I will test drug blood levels on Wednesday as suggested by the doctor. My plan is to make the decision before Sunday.

Do you have any thoughts on my post? Tips, recommendations

Thanks

March 31, 2020

On 3/25/2020 at 3:23 AM, Altostrata said:

After you took the quetiapine, did those symptoms become worse? How about the leg movement?

Ciasim, please see Alto's question quoted here. This is from her last post here on your thread from a few days ago.

Do you still have the mouth twitching symptom? Knowing how the quetiapine effects you is important in answering your questions about it.

That being said, if you don't wish to reduce it at this point, then staying on it and reducing it later is fine.

March 31, 2020

5 minutes ago, Shep said:

Ciasim, please see Alto's question quoted here. This is from her last post here on your thread from a few days ago.

@Altostrataand @Shep

I dont think these symptoms get worse after taking quetapin.

5 minutes ago, Shep said:

Do you still have the mouth twitching symptom? Knowing how the quetiapine effects you is important in answering your questions about it.

Yes, but I wouldn't call it twitching, is more of a shivering of the lips, a bit of the theet

What do you think @Altostrataand @Shep?

March 31, 2020

13 minutes ago, ciasim said:

Yes, but I wouldn't call it twitching, is more of a shivering of the lips, a bit of the theet

When did this symptom start? Before or after the increase in quetiapine?

March 31, 2020

As I remember it showed up about 4 weeks after going on 300 mg quetiapine and 75mg sertraline.

So after this.

This morning I've also woke up with impending sense of doom, unease. Def neuroemotion.

All other symptoms the same, maybe a small decrease in perception/coordination out of sync today.

Thanks @Shep

March 31, 2020

16 minutes ago, ciasim said:

As I remember it showed up about 4 weeks after going on 300 mg quetiapine and 75mg sertraline.

So after this.

This may be tardive dyskinesia, which could very well be from the quetiapine increase.

So you may want to try to lower the dose, if you feel able.

April 4, 2020

Thanks @Shep, and hi @Altostrata

I am torned between lowering and trying to stabilize. Nothing new there.

However, my plan is to wait for doctors results on metabolization-tests. Will get them in beginning of next week.

My long time plan is definitely to come of both meds and first lower quetapine. I hate the drug. Next step will be asking the doctor for 100 mg extended release.

Symptom-wise I have noticed a small reduction of the electrical feelings that used to be most prominent at evenings and nights. Mouth shivering about the same, maybe a bit less.

I still have constant derealisation and feel zoned out, perception and coordination out of sync. However, noticed a small improvement regarding those symptoms today, so I am grateful of that.

Thanks for being here.

April 4, 2020

it's good to hear that your symptoms are a little less intense right now ciasim, even if the derealisation especially sounds like it is prominent still. But every bit of improvement is great even if it is small. Hopefully you can see even more improvement later on. Take care.

April 4, 2020

Thanks @Sunnyday - really appreciate you stopping by!
Hope you are having a good Saturday.

All the best

Cecilia

April 4, 2020

Hi ciasim,

Oh good, I'm glad that you would like to become drug free one day.

1 hour ago, ciasim said:

I am torned between lowering and trying to stabilize. Nothing new there.

However, my plan is to wait for doctors results on metabolization-tests. Will get them in beginning of next week.

My long time plan is definitely to come of both meds and first lower quetapine. I hate the drug. Next step will be asking the doctor for 100 mg extended release.

What is it you are expecting to gain from the metabolism tests?

How does being a rapid or ultra rapid metabolizer affect tapering or withdrawal?

in ^, an except from the, 2nd post, from Alto there:

"This doesn't mean anything for tapering. You taper to the rate you can tolerate. If you get withdrawal symptoms, you taper more gradually.

Generally, these genetic tests are useful only to identify potential drug-drug interactions for drugs that you are considering taking or already taking. They don't indicate anything about withdrawal."

If I were you, I think I'd get going with reducing Seroquel, as soon as I could.

I'm not seeing symptoms notes like you were doing. Last was just a general, all the time, type thing.

I thought your notes on March 24th, were kind of telling.......with bunches of symptoms an hour after your Seroquel dose.

Best, if you can do the notes.......I mean it really is. For you too. Go ahead and post them though in 24 hour segments.

And especially helpful around med/drug changes.

Oh best ciasim,

L,P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited April 4, 2020 by manymoretodays
" fixed

April 4, 2020

Hi again ciasim,

Here's the Tips for Tapering Seroquel topic again.

It doesn't look like the XR comes in 100 mg, but it does come in 50 mg.

Please take a look at the section on tapering the XR form too. You can cut them, but it may require dosage adjustments. You'll see more about the "matrix" formulation in topic there. And then you could also switch to immediate release and take it twice a day.

And then there are other options for tapering it, as well. Is your new doctor a fan of getting you de-prescribed, or of getting you to a lower dose of Seroquel, as soon as possible? And then perhaps tapering down more judiciously from 75 mg?

Oh, I hope so.

You do sound a bit better ciasim. A quiet cheer for you!

And I don't know, was that the type of metabolic test you had done, the link I gave you? I just know, that often it is used to decide which medications to give people. More trials. I just don't want to see you get on the endless merry go round.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

April 5, 2020

20 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Thanks Manymoretodays, appreciate your response!

What is it you are expecting to gain from the metabolism tests?

Actually not expecting something of significance. Think I have it as a milestone, in order to stabilize a bit more before touching any meds.

Procrastination, I guess...

If I were you, I think I'd get going with reducing Seroquel, as soon as I could.

Thanks. Can I ask on what grounds you would do that?

I'm not seeing symptoms notes like you were doing. Last was just a general, all the time, type thing.

I thought your notes on March 24th, were kind of telling.......with bunches of symptoms an hour after your Seroquel dose.

Actually Ive not noticed any worsening if symptoms the last week after taking Seroquel. Quite the opposite, evening and nighttime seem to be my best hours on the day. Worst after lunch until 6-7 pm.

I will restart posting notes of symptoms from now on, thanks for the reminder.

And thanks for your positive support!

April 6, 2020

12 hours ago, ciasim said:

Thanks. Can I ask on what grounds you would do that?

Please re-read your thread. This has been asked and answered repeatedly. You have mild symptoms of tardive dyskinesia, you've posted that you felt worse on the higher dose of quetiapine, and you risk becoming dependent on the higher dose by staying on it longer than one month.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't reduce - that has to be your decision - but we've explained our reasons multiple times.

12 hours ago, ciasim said:

Actually not expecting something of significance. Think I have it as a milestone, in order to stabilize a bit more before touching any meds.

Procrastination, I guess...

I think you're also repeatedly asking questions as a way of procrastinating. You're taking a drug that causes apathy and the inability to make decisions, so please consider that some of your procrastination may be coming from the drug.

ciasim: citalopram up and down in short time - severe withdrawal symptoms

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