ciasim: citalopram up and down in short time - severe withdrawal symptoms

March 12, 2020

15 minutes ago, Hanna72 said:

Is there really hope for me with all thesechanges? And now halfing quetiapine as well?

YES there is hope, have faith and believe in yourself.
I will have you in my prayers

Thank you. Means a lot ❤🙏

March 12, 2020

23 minutes ago, ciasim said:

Have you seen people become kindled by their original SSRI and then been thrown new meds , gone of them and then recovered?

23 minutes ago, ciasim said:

Is there really hope for me with all these changes? And now halfing quetiapine as well?

The fact that you're getting off that high dose of quetiapine now, before developing dependency to the higher dose, is to your favor. Long-term exposure to high-dose antipsychotics is linked to many health problems.

We've answered these questions a number of times and even provided a list of success stories of people with similar experiences, even those with 20 years of polydrugging.

Please don't burn through the moderators by continuing to ask the same questions over and over again. It's exhausting to be drawn into the drama of your obsessive worries.

I would suggest you go through the listed success stories and print out posts that give you hope and start a collection. You can either bookmark them on your phone or computer or you can print them out so you can refer to them when you need reassurance. This would be a great project for you now and a great distraction from worrying. These success stories are listed here in this post.

Many (if not most) of the people coming into this forum are polydrugged. There's nothing unusual about your case. Yes, people do heal from this.

You will, too. But it will be a much easier ride if you find some distractions to keep your brain from going down worry spirals and catastrophic thinking.

March 12, 2020

Thanks Shep for your patience and consideration.

March 12, 2020

Yes ciasim, YOU WILL HEAL!!! I promise you!!

like I said, it will take some time. And the cruel part of withdrawal is, that for countless times you will think that no progress is happening. But that‘s not the case!

It‘s impossible that you won‘t heal, that‘s for sure! But you have to be patient, take every med on schedule and you would definitely profit from not taking any benzos anymore!
Don‘t worry too much! Worrying only intensifies your suffering!

Being alone with your thoughts will only make them worse. Try distracting yourself. I know how hard it is, especially because you won‘t be able to do many things you were able to do before.
the weather becomes better, going outside for a walk is always a good idea. Try to feel the sun on your body. Breathe in and out. You got this

withdrawal is only a small bump in the way of life and you will definitely make it out and live a happy life afterwards. Does suicide make any sense now? I hope it doesnt! Always think of the future!

March 12, 2020

Oh and also, please update your quetiapine dosage in your signature

March 12, 2020

57 minutes ago, Gaebbi said:

Yes ciasim, YOU WILL HEAL!!! I promise you!!

like I said, it will take some time. And the cruel part of withdrawal is, that for countless times you will think that no progress is happening. But that‘s not the case!

It‘s impossible that you won‘t heal, that‘s for sure! But you have to be patient, take every med on schedule and you would definitely profit from not taking any benzos anymore!
Don‘t worry too much! Worrying only intensifies your suffering!

Being alone with your thoughts will only make them worse. Try distracting yourself. I know how hard it is, especially because you won‘t be able to do many things you were able to do before.
the weather becomes better, going outside for a walk is always a good idea. Try to feel the sun on your body. Breathe in and out. You got this

withdrawal is only a small bump in the way of life and you will definitely make it out and live a happy life afterwards. Does suicide make any sense now? I hope it doesnt! Always think of the future!

Thank you so much Gaebbi. I took a screenshot of your message. To remind me. ❤

And I've managed to be a little calmer today. No benzo. Not planning to take any either. 👍

March 13, 2020

@Altostrataand @Shep

Sorry to bother you again, but I cant really wrap my head around this dilemma:

I am very unstable

- my cns feels kindled. I am just able.to sit in sofa each day, cant function outside. Electric current, legs walking by themself and derealisation constant. It is absolutely terrifying and no life worth living.

I have been going on and of a couple of drugs the last months

Quetapine is a drug you want to avoid as far as possible. I agree with that

You support going down from 300 mg to 150 mg quetiapine since it hasn't been a month on them.

However - Most people that I have been in contact with and which is survivingantidepressants followers, tell me to NOT make any drug-changes I this vulnerable state?

I know you don't have all answers and that I soly responsible for my own actions- but what makes you support such a fast taper ( 50 %) when I am so unstable and most likely kindled?

I'm just interested in the reasoning behind? Experience?

Not meaning to bother you, just honestly would like to find a good reason to having halfed the dose of quetapine when I am in this unstable state? I an questioning the logic in doing so and I cant give myself a good enough answer.

In want to underline: Everything I write is well intentioned.

Just can't really grasp the logic about lowering and see if you can fill the gaps?

Thank you

March 13, 2020

1 hour ago, ciasim said:

March 13, 2020

@Altostrataand @Shep

Sorry not meaning to wear you out, but feel the quetapine decision could be life altering. After reading discussion in the tapering quetiapine thread

That extended release minimum tablet if 50 mg is "acceptable " for tapering. I am halfing my dosage

And that you can get psychosis while tapering quetiapine, even though you never had one ( I never had any psychosis, but I am halfing my dosage ) @ShepI think you mentioned that in one thread and there was actually one member who appeared to become psychotic after quetapin taper

I really hate this drug.

But I will have ta make an informed decision in going of them - considering that I am already in withdrawals from other drug, considering the big jump ,.the limited time I have been on them and the serious risks in withdrawing quetiapine fast

Could you give me an informed feedback on this? What would you do I'd you were in my exact position?

Sorry, will try not to bomb you with questions here after, find this dilemma important

Thank you

March 13, 2020

4 hours ago, ciasim said:

And that you can get psychosis while tapering quetiapine, even though you never had one ( I never had any psychosis, but I am halfing my dosage )

Quetiapine affects histamine at the 75 mg level, not dopamine. Once you increased your dose to 300 mg, the drug began effecting dopamine. So if you were to become dependent on the higher dose, withdrawal psychosis would be a concern. The reason quetiapine is prescribed so much at doses 100 mg or less for sleep and anxiety is because of its histamine properties.

So it's up to you whether you want to risk dependency on the higher dose and stay on it. If you feel more comfortable staying on the high dose, than you'd need to stay on it a number of months until you're stable before reducing it or making any other drug changes.

March 13, 2020

Thanks shep, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Really unstable cns already.

I am soly responsible for my own choices, but to your knowledge what would you do in my situation?

March 13, 2020

If I had been on quetiapine at a high dose for less than a month, yes, I would want to decrease the dose to where it's no longer affecting dopamine before dependency set in.

March 13, 2020

Hi @ciasim

sorry to hear you are struggling, I really do feel for you, have been there with my tapering.

Just wanted to jump in and say it is really hard for people to answer that question for you, cause we are all different. You seem to be really struggling with the decision to go from 300-150 quetapine. Ask yourself what will help you to ease your decision on this, is it to go to 300 again, or are you able to be willing to wait it through. It’s all up to you really when it comes down to it. If you go up to 300 then you can always taper slowly, and it might set your mind at ease. Either way people have your best interest at heart, but you are the only one that ultimately has to do the work.

Cause it is work, and you need patience, faith and positivity to get through this.

Best regards and hugs to you🙏

March 13, 2020

19 minutes ago, Shep said:

If I had been on quetiapi9ne at a high dose for less than a month, yes, I would want to decrease the dose to where it's no longer affecting dopamine before dependency set in.

Thanks shep, and you would even if you were really destabilize already?

And when you say decreasw, would you actually do a 50 % decrease in this state?

Thanks shep

March 13, 2020

You may want to look back over your thread and any notes you kept offline to see how stable you were before going on the higher dose of quetiapine. If you feel the higher dose of quetiapine brought you stability, than you may want to stay there for a number of months. You repeatedly asked us to advise you on reducing it, so we went by what you were posting. You repeatedly said the higher quetiapine dose wasn't helpful. However, it's complicated because of the simultaneous updose of sertraline.

On 3/7/2020 at 4:31 PM, ciasim said:

11 pm take quetiapine 300 mg slow release- I hate it, feels like I am pouring poison in my body

On 3/7/2020 at 7:38 PM, ciasim said:

All symptoms amplified a couple of days after 300 mg quetiapine was introduced and the sertraline was put from 50mg to 75

On 3/9/2020 at 3:16 PM, ciasim said:

I cannot be sure but everything went downhill when I started quetapin 300mg.

We can only give you best practice advice. You'll have to decide what you want to do within the context of your ability to handle your symptoms. If you feel the reduction of quetiapine hasn't made you any worse, than you may want to hold at 150 mg for a few days and then reassess. Please don't resort to using benzos, though. That already complicated the picture. We've given you a number of links to non-drug coping skills.

I would go by your own symptoms, not anecdotal reports you're reading on the internet. Your case is complicated by the multiple drugs involved, so you need to go back your symptoms and keep daily notes.

On 3/11/2020 at 8:00 PM, ciasim said:

I want to post the following hours of today @AltostrataI know you want all 24 hours collected. I will do that from now on.

Please post daily notes. Have you posted 24 hours at a time since you posted this? There's a lot of back-and-forth on your thread, but I didn't see any drug and symptoms notes after this.

March 13, 2020

Hi shep here is my diary the last 3 days

March 10

9.00 go up. Derealisation 6/10 depersonalization 5/10
Feeling of legs walking by themselves 5/10 electrical spine feeling 6/10
9.30 psychiatric mobile team comes home because of er visit yesterday. They are sympathetic but don't understand withdrawals. (I have no use of them at all, they just tell me to take ativan, diazepam and what else - no way)
Derealisation constant during conversation. Ears ringing. A feeling of electrical chord in body when I move. Involuntary mouth shivering.

11.00 take 75 mg sertraline.
Involuntary mouth shivering more intense than previous days. Ears ringing. Tingling in feet. Derealisation, not its worst but not good either. My body is shivering slightly, havnt felt this before.

11.30 take on capsule of magnesium lie extension 500 mg

12.00 tinglong burning sensation in hands and feet. I have that every now and the since about a week ago. Ears ringing. Listen to 1 hour guided meditation provided by fellow fellow antidepressantsurvivant member. It calms me down.

13.00 continue to read a book I started, its hard. A lot of things in the book reminds me of the life I had and makes me feel grief because I think I will never have that again. I also feel that my existence, my daily life home alone is unsustainable - I cant spend my days in grief and despair. Fingers and back of hands tingling, burning sensation. I lie in sofa, if I go up symptoms ramp up and gets uninevetable. Symptoms when walking from sofa to kitchen: derealisation, and feeling of spine being tied up tonelectrical chord. Scale: 5 out of 10. I feel unreal and detached. As half human half robot. I just want to escape myself.

14.00 phone call with sister. When lying down and talking symptoms are less bothering. Tingling in feet. That's my least problem.

15.00 go up, derealisation, feeling
of spine being tied up to electrical chord. Scale: 5 out of 10. I feel unreal and detached. As half human half robot. I just want to escape myself.

16.00 same as above. Lay down in sofa play phone game to distract. Tingling in feet, hands a little bit burning. Ears ringing. Find it hard to accept my condition. Fear of leaving the sofa, I hate being up and time after time realize my condition. Heavy feeling in chest. Mouth shivering slightly 4/10.

17.00 stay in sofa. Same symptoms as above. Need to visit the bathroom but I avoid it, hate the feeling when I go up walking. Have a lingering feeling of being close to a panic attack, but I I have it yndern

18.00 have go go go pharmacy, my husband have to gp with me, cant drive can hardly orient in shopping mall. derealisation 8/10, disoriented 7/10. A buzzing electrical feeling in body 6/10
Its awful.Feel despair. Thinking this will be my life forward, it's not worth living

19. Same as above so I lay in sofa. While in sofa symptoms are bearable. Tingling in feet , a little tinnitus and derealisation. Everything is better when I stay still. Feel grief and despair.

20.00 heat up some food. Derealisation 7/10, electrical chord feeling 6/10. Hurry back to sofa, hard to cope when standing or moving

21.00 have a mental breakdown because of my situation. I am so terribly sad. Havnt moved from coach. Don't want to move.

22.15 take 150 mg quetiapine ( second day on halfed dosage)

23.00 symptoms a little bit less when going to bed, derealisation 4/10, electric feeling 5/10 which makes me scared it was a hasty desicion to lower the quetiapine dose yesterday

Match 11

06.00 wake up. Not anxious. Body feels ok. But very worried

09.30 go up, derealisation 5/10, feeling of legs walking by them selves 4/10
Take a shower. Feel miserable and think about how lowering the dose of quetiapine by half must be a bad decision

10.30 eat a sandwich, lay in sofa. Ears ringing 4/10. Feet tingling 4/10. Feeling a bit spaced out and empty brained. Worried and scared.

11.00 take 75 mg sertraline
Derealisation 5/10 . Leg thing 4/10

12.00
Derealisation 5/10 . Leg thing 4/10
Worry a lot. Tinnitus 3/10 try do do 1 hour meditation but couldn't focus. To anxious about lowering the dose of quetiapine. Cant stop thinking about it. Driving me crazy

13.00 Derealisation 5/10 . Leg thing 4/10. Tingling in feet and tinnitus 3/10
Worry a lot since my symptoms seem less severe now and that it was a haatu decision to go down to 150 mg quetiapine

14.00 take a walk, derealisation 5/10 leg walking by them self feeling 4/10. Disoriented 2/10
Tinnitus 4/10
Extremly worried about the the decision to lower quetapin

15.00
Derealisation 4/10. leg walking by them self feeling 5/10.
Tinnitus 5/10. Feet tingling 3/10
Extremly anxious about the decision to lower quetiapine

16.00 mouth shivering 3/10 derealisation 5/10. Tingling burning in face 4/10
I am having death angst and had all day worrying about whether going down on queatpine will destabilize my cns further. That I shoukd stay put as most people in withdrawal groups say? I have felt less symptoms today ( not good at al, but a little bit more manageable) It has become unmanageable so after much hesitation I took 10 mg oxazepam. I know it's not good but my worrying is killing me. I walk around moaning in death angst. I have been trying all day to avoid it but I cant cope
It probably won't help either, I know you cant medicate away natural feelings. Im sorry for being weak.

17.00 still extremly anxious and worried. Starting to Think that maybe going of quetiapine has caused more anxiety?
Feels like I am about to have a panic attack

18.00 very anxious and worried. Derealisation and leg thing is lower maybe 4 /10. This makes me question the decision to lower quetiapine even more

19.00 feeling calmer..probably due to oxazepam. Symptoms continue to be less severe than previous days. Derealisation 4/10. Legs walking by them self thin 4/10.

20.00 Symptoms continue to be less severe than previous days. Derealisation 4/10. Legs walking by them self thing 4/10. Desorientation 2/10

21.00
Symptoms continue to be less severe than previous days. Derealisation 4/10. Legs walking by them self thing 4/10. Desorientation 2/10

22.00 take 150 mg quetiapine
Symptoms continue to be less severe than previous days. Derealisation 4/10. Legs walking by them self thing 4/10. Desorientation 2/10
I don't know if taking the lorazepam earlier had made me less anxious about my symptoms and therefore makes them less noticable. I don't think so. This makes me really question the decision to half the quetiapine dose - cause I cant have any more destabilization of my CNS if I am starting to improve 😳

23.00 Symptoms continue to be less severe than previous days. Derealisation 4/10. Legs walking by them self thing 4/10. Desorientation 2/10

24.00 20.00 Symptoms continue to be less severe than previous days. Derealisation 4/10. Legs walking by them self thing 4/10. Desorientation 2/10

1 am go to bed.

Match 12

Wake up 9.00 slept all night since 1.30.
Slightly anxious. Elevated heartbeat - pounding a bit - this I have had after every med- change I've done so far, which scares me. Thinkinf its the lowering of quetiapine who is showing up
A bit tight chest that feels "chemical" - med induced. All these symptoms, even if very low key, is new. Following I will mark new symptoms with "new" after them.

11.00 take 75mg sertraline. Slight chest pain/ contraction (NEW) Derealisation 4/10, legs walking by themselves 2/10, electrical feeling in spine 3/10. Today I also feel like my brain/ head is tilted to the left. Have felt that a few times before. I also experience a foul smell in nose, chemical taste in mouth (NEW)
12.00 slight chest pain. (NEW) Derealisation 5/10 heart palpitations, (NEW) . Suspect it is because of halfing quetiapine? Eyesight when siting in sofa a bit weird(NEW)
Heat surges (NEW) Tingling in feet 5/10

13.00 derealisation 5/10, feels a bit worse than yesterday. Electrical feeling in spine when walking 4/10. Tilted brain feeling 6/10 . Legs walking by themselves 3/10

14.00 same as above
Chest pain / tight chest 6/10 (NEW)
Eyesight slightly out of focus (NEW)

15.00 very hot. Like hot flashes. Swearting a lot. (NEW) Feel strange in body. Hands shivering. feet sweaty. Tight chest 6/10 tinnitus 3/10

16.00

very hot. Like hot flashes. Swearting a lot. (NEW) Feel strange in body. Hands shivering. feet sweaty. Tight chest 6/10 tinnitus 3/10

17.00 derealisation 6/10 , legs walking bythem self feeling 2/10, mouth shivering 4/1 Blurry eyesight 3/10 ( NEW)

18.00 a shiver in the chest has started ( NEW) shaky hands (NEW)
Blurry eyesight ( 3/10) tinnitus 4/5

19.00 a shiver in the chest has started ( NEW) shaky hands (NEW)
Blurry eyesight ( 3/10) tinnitus 4/5 tingeling in feet 5/10
Legs walking by themselves seeking 6/10 - seems to get worse in the evening electrical feeling in spine 5/10
Derealisation 7/10

20.00

L shiver in the chest has started ( NEW) shaky hands (NEW)
Blurry eyesight ( 3/10) tinnitus 4/5 tingeling in feet 5/10
Legs walking by themselves seeking 6/10 - seems to get worse in the evening electrical feeling in spine 5/10
Derealisation 7/10

21.00 take a magnesium 500 mg Brand: life extension
shiver in the chest has started ( NEW) shaky hands (NEW)
Blurry eyesight ( 3/10) tinnitus 4/5 tingeling in feet 5/10
Legs walking by themselves seeking 6/10 - seems to get worse in the evening electrical feeling in spine 5/10
Derealisation 7/10

22.00
Tight chest
shaky hands
Blurry eyesight ( 3/10) tinnitus tingeling in feet 5/10
Legs walking by themselves seeking 6/10 - seems to get worse in the evening electrical feeling in spine 6 /10
Derealisation 7/10
A bit dizzy (NEW, havnt had in about two weeks)
My hands are shaking more a

22.15 take quetapine 150 mg

Tight chest
shaky hands
Blurry eyesight ( 3/10) tinnitus tingeling in feet 5/10
Legs walking by themselves seeking 6/10 - seems to get worse in the evening electrical feeling in spine 6 /10
Derealisation 7/10
A bit dizzy (NEW, havnt had in about two weeks)

23.00 cry my eyes out because of the cruelty and desperation in my situation. Cant grasp a valid reason for halfing quetiapine in my already extremely unstable state. Feels like I am acting in desperation

24.00 go to bed, cant sleep all night

March 13

06.30 Havnt slept at all. I am in agony of halfing the quetapine. Ears ringing, usually don't do that in the morning.

9.00 go up. Derealisation 6/10 depersonalization 5/10
Feeling of legs walking by themselves 5/10 electrical spine feeling 6/10

10.00
9.00 go up. Derealisation 6/10 depersonalization 5/10
Feeling of legs walking by themselves 5/10 electrical spine feeling 6/10

11.00
9.00 go up. Derealisation 4/10 depersonalization 5/10
Feeling of legs walking by themselves 5/10 electrical spine feeling 5/10
Shiverinf in stomach NEW
Very anxious and worried

March 13, 2020

23 minutes ago, ciasim said:

It has become unmanageable so after much hesitation I took 10 mg oxazepam. I know it's not good but my worrying is killing me.

Some of your new symptoms may have been from the oxazepam, which can create rebound symptoms. It's very hard to say. Please try to avoid any changes while you're also making a quetiapine change.

Question - do you want off the higher dose of quetiapine? If you're going to worry so much about it, you may be making yourself sicker. Anxiety can also trigger these new symptoms. If you feel safer staying at the higher dose, please do so. We can only give you the best-practice information. We cannot control your emotional reactions, which in your case, is causing a lot of catastrophic thinking and fear.

You've had a number of kind members reach out to you with support and encouragement. You may want to write to them on their introduction sections and offer them support. Sometimes offering others support can instill a sense of hope in your own healing. Telling other people they're going to be okay works to create that feeling in yourself. It's also empowering to help others.

Try not to stay closeted inside of your fear. Take a walk. Bring your cell phone and take pictures of nature. Be grateful for getting information to get off these drugs, even if it takes a long time and is a very hard journey. Do guided meditations and find distractions.

March 13, 2020

1 minute ago, Shep said:

Some of your new symptoms may have been from the oxazepam, which can create rebound symptoms. It's very hard to say. Please try to avoid any changes while you're also making a quetiapine change.

Question - do you want off the higher dose of quetiapine? If you're going to worry so much about it, you may be making yourself sicker. Anxiety can also trigger these new symptoms. If you feel safer staying at the higher dose, please do so. We can only give you the best-practice information. We cannot control your emotional reactions, which in your case, is causing a lot of catastrophic thinking and fear.

I don't like being on that high dose of quetiapine, so yes. But scared of making my situation worse.

1 minute ago, Shep said:

You've had a number of kind members reach out to you with support and encouragement. You may want to write to them on their introduction sections and offer them support. Sometimes offering others support can instill a sense of hope in your own healing. Telling other people they're going to be okay works to create that feeling in yourself. It's also empowering to help others.

Try not to stay closeted inside of your fear. Take a walk. Bring your cell phone and take pictures of nature. Be grateful for getting information to get off these drugs, even if it takes a long time and is a very hard journey. Do guided meditations and find distractions.

Thanks, I will try to do some meditation now. And thanks for the tip on encouraging others. I have done that onfb pages already, but not here.

@shep do you think I can recover with all these med changes? I know you listed success stories from people being poludrugged, but none of them were put on other drugs while in withdrawal? And some were tapering slowly? Is there anything in my story ( if I handle my excessive worry 🙂) that seems promising? Helpful? Doable?

Seems like I am an unusual case? I think have been kindled - you never answered my question about that before - have you seen people being kindled heal?

March 13, 2020

1 hour ago, Shep said:

I would go by your own symptoms, not anecdotal reports you're reading on the internet. Your case is complicated by the multiple drugs involved

That is great advice!

I know its hard for you to think and remember back right now, but it seems that you were getting worse after going on the Quetapin.

That is the reason why you made such a higher percentage cut, if Your having a paradoxical reaction. That is when you do that.

If you have already been down to the lower dose since the 9th and you haven't had any real psychosis symptoms yet that's good do not focus on that.

It's very hard to understand your last medication line in your signature, perhaps you could put the drug, dose and dates in parenthesis so its easier for others to see the changes?

I don't want to see someone give you wrong advice based on not understanding when your drugs changed.

March 13, 2020

11 minutes ago, ciasim said:

but none of them were put on other drugs while in withdrawal?

I think that many of them were!

That's what causes all these cases on this site, because people became unstable so they ran back to the doctor or hospital and got put on different drugs in an attempt to fix it!

And almost 75% of cases I see include kindling, its part of the reaction,

March 13, 2020

Thanks colonial. Have you seen people like me become better? Please honest answer 🙏

How is your journey?

March 13, 2020

Your very welcome! 🙂

Yes, We have all watched lots of cases just like yours go on to heal! 🥰

It seems there is NOTHING unusual in your case per se, so thats a good sign.

You just had a lot of drug changes and then a probable paradoxical effect on top of it by a med you reacted badly towards.

I am doing ok. I had to "over do it" the past week getting supplies here because of the Corona Virus preparations, so I'm a little worse since yesterday again.

But it's just temporary from too much activity running around waiting in line for Toilet Paper. 😎

March 13, 2020

8 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Yes, We have all watched lots of cases just like yours go on to heal! 🥰

Exactly, Colonial.

42 minutes ago, ciasim said:

@shep do you think I can recover with all these med changes? I know you listed success stories from people being poludrugged, but none of them were put on other drugs while in withdrawal?

They weren't? Some of them had been drugged for more than 20 years with many different drug cocktails. They went into withdrawal every time they switched drug cocktails. The withdrawal was mistaken for a "return of the original condition," which we know is one of psychiatry's many lies. They were in withdrawal and were switched to other drugs. This leads to kindling. But yet, they are success stories.

43 minutes ago, ciasim said:

Seems like I am an unusual case? I think have been kindled - you never answered my question about that before - have you seen people being kindled heal?

Yes, people who've been kindled have healed.

March 13, 2020

thanks @shep and @colonial

sorry for being so needy. I am really struggling mentally and I am discourage in my capacity to handle the situation.

@Shepwould you really lower your dosage of queatpine in a condition like mine? You would take that eventually hit, just to get of them?

March 13, 2020

21 minutes ago, ciasim said:

@Shepwould you really lower your dosage of queatpine in a condition like mine? You would take that eventually hit, just to get of them?

I've answered this, ciasim. And I'm not going to continue being drawn into your anxiety drama. You're using this as a method of self-soothing instead of working with non-drug coping skills, such as guided meditations and breathing techniques. It's not healthy and you're working against yourself doing this, as well as burning through the staff.

You may need to work with your doctor instead of an online forum.

I'm not going to be on the forum over the weekend, but if you decide to stay here (without asking the same questions again and again), I'll look at your drug and symptoms journal on Monday.

March 13, 2020

thanks @Shep

March 13, 2020

6 hours ago, ciasim said:

It has become unmanageable so after much hesitation I took 10 mg oxazepam. I know it's not good but my worrying is killing me.

This was noted on March 11 at 16:00

6 hours ago, ciasim said:

22.00 take 150 mg quetiapine
Symptoms continue to be less severe than previous days. Derealisation 4/10. Legs walking by them self thing 4/10. Desorientation 2/10
I don't know if taking the lorazepam earlier had made me less anxious about my symptoms and therefore makes them less noticable. I don't think so. This makes me really question the decision to half the quetiapine dose - cause I cant have any more destabilization of my CNS if I am starting to improve 😳

And then again ^ on March 11 you refer to taking lorazepam?

Just the one dose of oxazepam on the 11th of March? Or are you still taking the Ativan/lorazepam too?

If not, when was your last dose of Ativan?

What happened with the Valium and considering a potential "crossover"?? Did you decide NOT to do that, or fill that prescription?

6 hours ago, ciasim said:

23.00 cry my eyes out because of the cruelty and desperation in my situation. Cant grasp a valid reason for halfing quetiapine in my already extremely unstable state. Feels like I am acting in desperation

ciasim, my guess is that you are really hyper-focusing now on the quetiapine change, as the cause of all symptoms. Your already unstable nervous system was brought about way before the quetiapine change, from so many changes done prior to this. I know your anxiety is sky high. Try, try, try to use the non-drug coping skills as much as possible. Unfortunate, that yourself, and plenty of other members with similar situations, had to get into this mess. And.....it can take some time for symptoms to settle down to more manageable.

Acceptance

even just temporary acceptance ciasim, that it won't always be this way, or this tough, sometimes fighting all the feelings intensifies them

*Dealing with Emotional Spirals

^ you are good at putting them all into words here, practice defusing the spiral

And this:

On 4/27/2017 at 12:03 PM, brassmonkey said:

AF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float. It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety. The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain. Making it so there is nothing we can do about them. They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like. They do, however, react very well to being ignored. That's the concept behind AAF. Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them. Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can. It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets. What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest. At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them. After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them. So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work. I hope you give it a try.

And continue please with the daily drug and symptom notes, you are getting better at these, ciasim. Try and post one whole 24 hour segment at a time, the following day. I had to hyperfocus a bit to read through the 3 days worth, and pull out some of the important stuff. You could bold the drugs and doses, when you take them, or the times on the left......I'll leave that to your discretion.

Best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Hi again ciasim, On some phone devices you can't view the signatures, which are below each member's posts. And if so, then to do so, you'd have to use a desktop or other PC, or notepad of some type. I do see your signature. I saw you had asked about this.

Edited March 13, 2020 by manymoretodays
signature note

March 13, 2020

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

This was noted on March 11 at 16:00

And then again ^ on March 11 you refer to taking lorazepam?

Just the one dose of oxazepam on the 11th of March? Or are you still taking the Ativan/lorazepam too?

If not, when was your last dose of Ativan?

What happened with the Valium and considering a potential "crossover"?? Did you decide NOT to do that, or fill that prescription?

Ssorry for being unclear. I mixed notes up I guess. I have only taken 1 oxazepam on March 11. I am not taking ativan anymore. The last ativan I took was 1 week ago. I took 0,5 mg March 6.

I decided not to do a crossover - fingers crossed I hav not become dependent on ativan. I have filled prescription for valium, but I am not planning to take it and havnt taken any.

Hopefully I can stay away from al benzoz from now on.

What do you think about these decisions?

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

ciasim, my guess is that you are really hyper-focusing now on the quetiapine change, as the cause of all symptoms. Your already unstable nervous system was brought about way before the quetiapine change, from so many changes done prior to this. I know your anxiety is sky high. Try, try, try to use the non-drug coping skills as much as possible. Unfortunate, that yourself, and plenty of other members with similar situations, had to get into this mess. And.....it can take some time for symptoms to settle down to more manageable.

Thank you. Yes you are right about me being unstable before quetiapine, but after quetapine 300mg I became 10 times worse. I am surprised I am alive. When symptoms ramped up after 3-4 days after quetapin 300 mg was Instated I was so disabled it was not humane. I felt like a electric robot shaking and tumbling a long the streets around the hospital in full derealisation. I is the most horrifying experience I have been gone through. It was cruel and I called my husband and begged him to let me kill myself.

This state is still here but has slowed down a bit since coming home after the hospital stay 2 weeks ago. It has not become worse. But deliberating enough.

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Acceptance

even just temporary acceptance ciasim, that it won't always be this way, or this tough, sometimes fighting all the feelings intensifies them

*Dealing with Emotional Spirals

^ you are good at putting them all into words here, practice defusing the spiral

And this:

And continue please with the daily drug and symptom notes, you are getting better at these, ciasim. Try and post one whole 24 hour segment at a time, the following day. I had to hyperfocus a bit to read through the 3 days worth, and pull out some of the important stuff. You could bold the drugs and doses, when you take them, or the times on the left......I'll leave that to your discretion

Thanks for valuable input. I will try to give my notes more structure.

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

March 15, 2020

Symptoms last two days very thankful for your input

March 14

wake up
11.30 Have a slight feeling of fear, feels like neuroemotion , after indulging my self in this a while I say to my self. Enough with the digging nd I manage somewhat to change the channel.

13.00 go up take a shower, derealisation 5/10, depersonalization 5/10
Crooked/ tilted brain 4/10
Electric spine 2/10
Legs walking by themselves 3/10
Feeling outspaced spaced out 5/10

13,00 Take 75 mg sertraline

15.00
derealisation 5/10, depersonalization 5/10
Crooked/ tilted brain 4/10
Electric spine 2/10
Legs walking by themselves 3/10
Feeling outspaced spaced out 5/10

17.00 Heath Waves
Mouth shivering 3/10

18.00
derealisation 5/10, depersonalization 5/10
Crooked/ tilted brain 4/10
Electric spine 2/10
Legs walking by themselves 4/10
Feeling outspaced spaced out 5/10

22: 40 150 mg quetapin

23.00
Chest pain 4/10
Fingers shaking 6/10
Sweating a lot on feet and hands
Electrical spine feeling high 6/10
Legs walking by themselves 6/10
Tingling feet 5/10
12.00 mouth shivering 5/10
Chest pain 3/10
Chemical Smell in nose 5/10

01.00 am ringinh in ears 6/10
chemical smell in nose
Legs walking by them self 4/10
Derealisation 5/10
Depersonalization 5/10
Symptoms not worse, maybe slightly better
Eyesight blurry seems to comen after quetapin intake

3.00 fell asleep, have been going to bed more late this weekend

15 march
10.00
Slept all night. Woke up. Very anxious and generalized anxiety. This has shown up ever since I lowered the quetiapine dosage.

12.00 took 75 mg sertraline

15.00 went out of bed.
Feel definently not good, feel zoned out and bad derealisation, a feeling of having an empty brain.
All symptoms are really bad today.

It most probably has to do with the decrease of quetiapine from 300 to 150 mg. I am really scared that this jump will be more than I can handle. Extremly anxious , feels medicine induced.

15.30 had to take an oxazepam ( 😞 )
Even if I really don't want to the anxiety and restlessness was unbearable.

21.00 all "neurological " symptoms seem to have ramped up-
Derealisation
Depersonalization
Feeling of legs walking themselves
Feekingg strange , zoned out, dizzy

22.00

all "neurological " symptoms seem to have ramped up-
Derealisation
Depersonalization
Feeling of legs walking themselves
Feeling strange , zoned out, dizzy

22.30 take 150 mg quetiapine

23.00
all "neurological " symptoms seem to have ramped up-
Derealisation
Depersonalization
Feeling of legs walking themselves
Feekingg strange , zoned out, dizzy

Shivering hands

01.00 go to bed

My own observations:

Symptoms seem to ramp up in late afternoon and increase until bedtime

Until today, 5 days after lowering quetapine, symptoms have not become worse the last 3 days, acutally also lessened a little. Except for waking with anxiety which has shown up the last 3 days.

However today Sunday the 15 I woke up very anxious, all symptoms ramped up today. Also So anxious and jumpy all day.

I guess it's the withdrawals from quetapine showing up ?

March 16, 2020

On 3/13/2020 at 2:55 PM, ciasim said:

I have only taken 1 oxazepam on March 11

12 hours ago, ciasim said:

15.30 had to take an oxazepam

Please add a line to include the dates and the dose you take oxazepam in your signature. A direct link is here:

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

This will help in the future if you have any questions about whether or not you may have developed a dependency.

12 hours ago, ciasim said:

My own observations:

Symptoms seem to ramp up in late afternoon and increase until bedtime

Until today, 5 days after lowering quetapine, symptoms have not become worse the last 3 days, acutally also lessened a little. Except for waking with anxiety which has shown up the last 3 days.

However today Sunday the 15 I woke up very anxious, all symptoms ramped up today. Also So anxious and jumpy all day.

I guess it's the withdrawals from quetapine showing up ?

It could be your nervous system adjusting to the reduction - it takes about 4 days for your nervous system to register the change and longer for it to adjust to the change.

Or it may be interdose withdrawal symptoms, meaning you're going into withdrawal in between quetiapine doses. Quetiapine has a half-life of just 6 - 7 hours, so you may want to divide the dose and take part in the morning and the rest in the evening.

If you do this, we recommend moving your dose just one hour a day. The gradual move is gentlest on your nervous system. You could move 25 mg one hour a day until it's in the morning and take 125 mg in the evening.

Please post your thoughts on this.

12 hours ago, ciasim said:

11.30 Have a slight feeling of fear, feels like neuroemotion , after indulging my self in this a while I say to my self. Enough with the digging nd I manage somewhat to change the channel.

This is excellent, ciasim. Please continue to do this kind of non-drug coping and include them in your notes. After awhile, these kinds of skills become automatic and will serve you well through your taper and for the rest of your life.

You are setting the stage to build neuroplasticity. This short video explains:

Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity video (7.5 mintues)

Please keep doing your daily notes. The last part, "My own observations," is very helpful.

March 16, 2020

11 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please add a line to include the dates and the dose you take oxazepam in your signature. A direct link is here:

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

Ok, thanks will do that.

11 minutes ago, Shep said:

This will help in the future if you have any questions about whether or not you may have developed a dependency.

It could be your nervous system adjusting to the reduction - it takes about 4 days for your nervous system to register the change and longer for it to adjust to the change.

Or it may be interdose withdrawal symptoms, meaning you're going into withdrawal in between quetiapine doses. Quetiapine has a half-life of just 6 - 7 hours, so you may want to divide the dose and take part in the morning and the rest in the evening.

If you do this, we recommend moving your dose just one hour a day. The gradual move is gentlest on your nervous system. You could move 25 mg one hour a day until it's in the morning and take 125 mg in the evening.

Please post your thoughts on this.

Thanks Shep, I have extended release pill, so cant divide it and I am afraid of doing any more changes now, since my CNS really seem to have been further destabilized since halfing the quetapine doze. I feel more spaced out, severe derelaization. Feel really out of it. I think that the extended relase pill is supposed to even out intake during the day? How do you feel about this decision.

11 minutes ago, Shep said:

This is excellent, ciasim. Please continue to do this kind of non-drug coping and include them in your notes. After awhile, these kinds of skills become automatic and will serve you well through your taper and for the rest of your life.

You are setting the stage to build neuroplasticity. This short video explains:

Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity video (7.5 mintues)

Please keep doing your daily notes. The last part, "My own observations," is very helpful.

Shep, I was expecting some interruptiont to my CNS while chaning quetapine. I am glad to not have such a big dosage anymore, however very disheartened by the increase of feeling spaced out and derelaisation. I can just about sit in the sofa and even there I have derealisation and feeling spaced out. That was not the case a few days ago.

For how long do you think it can take for me to stabilize on this new dosage of qutepaine? Do you think it was the right decision even thouhg it seem to destabilize me more?

March 16, 2020

Just now, ciasim said:

Thanks Shep, I have extended release pill, so cant divide it and I am afraid of doing any more changes now, since my CNS really seem to have been further destabilized since halfing the quetapine doze. I feel more spaced out, severe derelaization. Feel really out of it. I think that the extended relase pill is supposed to even out intake during the day? How do you feel about this decision.

Please add the "extended release" information to your signature. Thanks for mentioning this. This rules out interdose withdrawal.

1 minute ago, ciasim said:

Shep, I was expecting some interruptiont to my CNS while chaning quetapine. I am glad to not have such a big dosage anymore, however very disheartened by the increase of feeling spaced out and derelaisation. I can just about sit in the sofa and even there I have derealisation and feeling spaced out. That was not the case a few days ago.

Is it worse than what you reported 9 days ago?

On 3/7/2020 at 4:31 PM, ciasim said:

Is it really safe to continue with quetapin? I can't say for sure, but my experience is that all symptoms have become worse since started 20 days ago.

I cant drive , can hardly walk anywhere, I am disoriented and not disoriented at the same time, legs feel like they walk by themselves. Derealisation. It's awful.

March 16, 2020

6 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please add the "extended release" information to your signature. Thanks for mentioning this. This rules out interdose withdrawal.

I have done that now, Thank you.

Is it worse than what you reported 9 days ago?

Yes , derealisation, feeling spaced out, disoriented are definitely worse last two days.

Leg thing about the same

Is there hope for me? This condition is so frightening, if it gets worse I don't know what to do

March 16, 2020

Anyone who been put on drugs while already really unstable, possibly kindled, and was able to recover? Losing hope

If anyone like to read my story below it would be much appreciated

Celexa kindling after 9 years of use

Doctors put me on serttaline

Withdrawals from Celexa

Doctor added 75 mg seroquel

Couldn't walk straight, feelings of legs walking by themselves, derealisation

Became suicidal because of situation

Was put on 300 mg seroquel extended release- CNS got even more unstable

- all symptoms tenfolded - could not function - severely zoned out, feeling of legs walking by themself worse. Severe derealisation.

Symptoms improved a little

Hate being on seroquel and was desperate. Having the dilemma of not wanting to further destabilize my CNS and stand on a drug that is awful.

5 days ago I lowered seroquel 300 mg to 150 mg after doctors advice and conversations here with moderators.

The last 2 days derealisation has become so much worse, before I could sit in sofa without feeling so bad. Now its deliberating. I am in a constant fog. I have many other symptoms but the constanybderealisation and fog is very hard to handle.

So scared I have destroyed my cns forever.

March 16, 2020

ciasim, did you only use your benzos in the times you mentioned in your signature? Or were there some single days when you also took it?

please, for the future, try to stay away from them or you might fall into benzo withdrawal. It happens faster than you might think!

March 16, 2020

ciasim, I moved your posts here, since you have asked it before and it's been answered in this topic. Please do not repeat the same question in other places on the site. If you need reassurance again, read this topic from the beginning.

23 hours ago, ciasim said:

11.30 Have a slight feeling of fear, feels like neuroemotion , after indulging my self in this a while I say to my self. Enough with the digging nd I manage somewhat to change the channel.

That is exactly how to handle this, well done. Please remind yourself to do it every morning and every time you start to worry.

23 hours ago, ciasim said:

22: 40 150 mg quetapin

23.00
Chest pain 4/10
Fingers shaking 6/10
Sweating a lot on feet and hands
Electrical spine feeling high 6/10
Legs walking by themselves 6/10
Tingling feet 5/10
12.00 mouth shivering 5/10
Chest pain 3/10
Chemical Smell in nose 5/10

Did your symptoms change 20 minutes after taking 150mg quetiapine? How often does this happen?

Please do NOT copy and paste symptom patterns from one hour to another or one day to another. We need to know about significant changes in the pattern. You appear to be reporting that it doesn't change, yet it clearly does change from day to day.

You might consider that 300mg quetiapine, which is a considerable dose, might have been too high for you and was causing symptoms like derealisation and depersonalization. They don't call it an "antipsychotic" for nothing. It changes the way you think and feel.

Can you explain more what this means: "Feeling of legs walking themselves"?

ciasim: citalopram up and down in short time - severe withdrawal symptoms

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