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Morfs: Sertraline Help


Morfs

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5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

When you change two drugs at the same time, you can get withdrawal symptoms from either or both.

 

How much did you vary your diazepam schedule? In the last 2 weeks, how much has this varied?

I have taken 1mg Diazepam daily around 8AM since mid August, no changes.

1998 Clonazepam for a few weeks. 2011 Lorazepam (Tinnitus onset) < 2 weeks

2017 Jan -March 5-15mg Citalopram, 2mg Valium. Severe depression/anxiety

2017 March - May Felt better. Tapered off Citalopram and Valium by end of May

2018 Oct anxiety re-emerged. 0.5mg Ativan daily. Supplemented with 2mg Valium daily

2018 Oct - 2019 Jun Zopiclone 3.75mg to help with sleep as required

2019 Jan  20mg Citalopram 2019 Feb  switched to 7.5mg-30mg Mirtazapine. 

2019  Apr 100mg Sertraline

2019 June CT Ativan began tapering Sertraline

2019 June - Oct tapered 100mg to 9mg Sertraline,  2mg to 1mg Valium

2019 Oct 12 Started 28 day Sertraline taper using tapering strips (10mg->0mg). Stopped at 5mg due to increase anxiety and depression symptoms.

2019 Nov 9 Re-instated Sertraline 7.5mg. Still taking 1mg Valium.

 

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13 hours ago, Morfs said:

Supplements: I am taking fish oil, magnesium and a male multi-vitamin supplement (mainly B vitamins, but others too ). I was taking Ashwaghanda and Turmeric as well, but I have stopped these as I've no idea what if anything they do, so one less variable.

 

 

Please be careful of B vitamins, as they can be stimulating to someone with a destablized nervous system. Here is some information: 

 

Vitamin B3 (niacin, niacinamide)
 
Vitamin B8 (inositol)

Vitamin B12: essential for mood, nervous system

 

Since it's a multi-vitamin, you may want to research each individual ingredient to see if there may be anything in there that could be ramping up symptoms such as headaches. If you scroll down the page, you'll see links to many different vitamins listed:

 

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

 

When did you stop taking Ashwaghanda and Turmeric? 

 

 

13 hours ago, Morfs said:

Timing: Currently, I am taking all the drugs, supplements etc. in the morning, mainly out of convenience. It has crossed my mind to split the Sertraline into 5mg morning, 2.5mg evening and Diazepam 0.5mg morning and evening, to try and even things out a bit and maybe help with the next reduction whenever that comes.

 

Sertraline has a half-life of about 26 hours, so you should be okay taking it once a day. Many people find SSRIs to be stimulating, so taking it in the evening could cause problems with sleep. 

 

Diazepam's half-life is up to 200 hours (8 days), so dosing once a day is fine. However, some people find it helps with sleep so it may be helpful to take it at night. If you do move halve the diazepam dose, please do so at a rate of only 1 hour a day to let your nervous system adjust to the timing change slowly and gently. 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Morfs, please continue to post at least 24 hours of daily notes at a time. Effectively, you're taking all your drugs at the same time in the morning. Like Shep, I suspect something you're taking in the morning is causing the headache, if you tend to get it at the same time each day.

 

Can you describe how you feel "anxiety" and "depression" in the morning? Everybody feels these differently.

 

19 hours ago, Morfs said:

Hard to describe. I find it difficult to separate the thoughts and feelings that arise from these labels. I don't tend to experience too much in the way of physical symptoms (e.g. shortness of breath, racing heart) other than ongoing headache. My experience is much more mental/emotional. Racing thoughts, generally negative, feelings of not being able to cope, general feeling of unease, feelings of hopelessness, difficulty concentrating, constant fatigue. I don't just experience them in the morning although they often seem a bit more intense at that time. These feelings intensified about a month ago after I tapered my Sertraline below 9mg which prompted me to start posting here for advice.

 

That is sounding like breakthrough or interdose symptoms from something, maybe sertraline, maybe diazepam.

 

Have you always taken the statin in the morning? Is there a reason you need to take it in the morning?

 

Please continue to post your daily notes.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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I stopped Ashwaganda and Turmeric a few days ago. I'm also stopping the Multi-vitamin. So, all I will take is fish oil + statin + low dose aspirin. Based on the advice here, these supplements are just additional variables, so I think it is best to just eliminate them. I can't say any of them ever made me feel better even after taking them for a long time. I have always taken the statin in the morning out of habit but I guess I don't have to.

 

My main concern is the re-appearance of my symptoms of anxiety and depression since I tried to taper off Sertraline 9mg over a month ago. I was very keen to stop the drug after reducing from 100mg to 9mg since June but I am starting to feel like I did at the beginning of this year before starting on these ADs and I am frightened by the prospect, as it was a severe situation. I haven't taken Lorazepam since June, but I feel I might have to resort back to that again if things don't improve soon. My wife is very anxious about it and wants me to updose the Sertraline. She is starting to get very annoyed with me for not doing so.  

 

Although I am very unhappy at the prospect I can't deny the fact that I was doing better overall on higher dosages of Sertraline than I am now. From what I have read on this forum, it seems there is now risk in updosing Sertraline any further and that if I were to try and go back to say 12.5mg or 25mg, I am in for a further period of waiting and discomfort to see what happens. It's all very confusing and I am finding it difficult to figure out the best course of action for me at this point.

 

Thanks again for all the help here.

1998 Clonazepam for a few weeks. 2011 Lorazepam (Tinnitus onset) < 2 weeks

2017 Jan -March 5-15mg Citalopram, 2mg Valium. Severe depression/anxiety

2017 March - May Felt better. Tapered off Citalopram and Valium by end of May

2018 Oct anxiety re-emerged. 0.5mg Ativan daily. Supplemented with 2mg Valium daily

2018 Oct - 2019 Jun Zopiclone 3.75mg to help with sleep as required

2019 Jan  20mg Citalopram 2019 Feb  switched to 7.5mg-30mg Mirtazapine. 

2019  Apr 100mg Sertraline

2019 June CT Ativan began tapering Sertraline

2019 June - Oct tapered 100mg to 9mg Sertraline,  2mg to 1mg Valium

2019 Oct 12 Started 28 day Sertraline taper using tapering strips (10mg->0mg). Stopped at 5mg due to increase anxiety and depression symptoms.

2019 Nov 9 Re-instated Sertraline 7.5mg. Still taking 1mg Valium.

 

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16 hours ago, Morfs said:

I'm also stopping the Multi-vitamin.

 

The only concern here is if you're a vegetarian or a vegan, as vitamin B12 comes from animal sources.

 

If you eat meat, unless you have a low B12 level, you should be fine getting your nutrients from your diet. Please eat as healthy as possible during your taper. 

 

16 hours ago, Morfs said:

I haven't taken Lorazepam since June, but I feel I might have to resort back to that again if things don't improve soon.

 

Please note that it's risky to reinstate a benzo after a month of being off it. You risk kindling by doing so. Please see:

 

KINDLING What is the kindling phenomenon that occurs with benzodiazepines?

 

16 hours ago, Morfs said:

My main concern is the re-appearance of my symptoms of anxiety and depression since I tried to taper off Sertraline 9mg over a month ago.

 

Do you mean "re-appearance" as a withdrawal symptom or "re-appearance" as an actual "disease" of anxiety and depression?

 

It may be helpful to read information on the fact that the chemical imbalance of depression has been debunked. Please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

And some information on how depression was seen prior to the antidepressant era:

 

History We Can’t Overlook Anymore: Details Before the Anti-Depressant Era

 

You may want to read Robert Whitaker's book Anatomy of An Epidemic. It's highly recommended on this site. You can scroll down that link and see the links to all of the research. 

 

Some non-drug methods of dealing with anxiety and depression are found here:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

 

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Thank you @Shep I appreciate your remarks. I have read Anatomy of an Epidemic and have probably done more research on the pros and cons of AD and benzo use than is good for me. I am completely opposed to the use of the drugs. I watched my mother destroyed by Librium and Valium in the 1970's. I don't buy into the chemical imbalance myth nor do I view anxiety/depression as a "disease". However, there is no doubt in my mind that the experience of anxiety and depressive states does cause some sort of changes in our nervous systems, because I've experienced it myself.

 

In my case, I did not start taking AD or benzos lightly. I was in a severe depressive state, barely able to function or get out of bed with daily disturbing suicidal thoughts. The life circumstances that led to this situation are complex, as I guess they are for all of us. I went onto AD because I was desperate and felt like I had no other options. Over time, my condition did slowly improve. Who knows if any of this was down to the action of Sertraline, you don't get to see what would have happened if you had not taken it.

 

So, I honestly cannot say if the "re-appearance" of symptoms I am describing is down to withdrawal, or the original issues resurfacing and starting to play out in the same way. Most likely a combination. Certainly some of the life circumstances that I am dealing with have not changed, and will not change (ongoing severe Tinnitus for example).

 

It's a really complex situation isn't it. Despite my abhorrence of psych drugs and the thoughts of dependency on them and potential long term damage, there is still a part of me that wonders if they do have some effect on a severe depressive state. That experience is horrific and I really don't want to go there again. It is very scary to feel like those feelings are starting to re-emerge no matter what is causing them. 

 

I am sure others have been through this dilemma. Obviously there are lots of people out there that take ADs and swear by them, or at least accept that they are doing something for them. I know this is an anti-drug site (and I put myself in that category) but has anyone come to the conclusion that, as distasteful is it may be, some level of drug use is required for them to stay away from the edge of the abyss.

 

I am still holding where I am at the moment and seeing how things go. 

 

 

 

1998 Clonazepam for a few weeks. 2011 Lorazepam (Tinnitus onset) < 2 weeks

2017 Jan -March 5-15mg Citalopram, 2mg Valium. Severe depression/anxiety

2017 March - May Felt better. Tapered off Citalopram and Valium by end of May

2018 Oct anxiety re-emerged. 0.5mg Ativan daily. Supplemented with 2mg Valium daily

2018 Oct - 2019 Jun Zopiclone 3.75mg to help with sleep as required

2019 Jan  20mg Citalopram 2019 Feb  switched to 7.5mg-30mg Mirtazapine. 

2019  Apr 100mg Sertraline

2019 June CT Ativan began tapering Sertraline

2019 June - Oct tapered 100mg to 9mg Sertraline,  2mg to 1mg Valium

2019 Oct 12 Started 28 day Sertraline taper using tapering strips (10mg->0mg). Stopped at 5mg due to increase anxiety and depression symptoms.

2019 Nov 9 Re-instated Sertraline 7.5mg. Still taking 1mg Valium.

 

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15 hours ago, Morfs said:

I am sure others have been through this dilemma. Obviously there are lots of people out there that take ADs and swear by them, or at least accept that they are doing something for them. I know this is an anti-drug site (and I put myself in that category) but has anyone come to the conclusion that, as distasteful is it may be, some level of drug use is required for them to stay away from the edge of the abyss.

 

Sure, many people have doubts as they go through the process of coming off these drugs. This is the un-patienting process, which is definitely a process. Members discuss staying on these drugs in this thread:

 

Has anyone decided that it was best for them to stay on meds indefinitely?

 

It's really best to keep these conversation on the above thread because it's very confusing to moderators when you post about it here in your intro thread. We sometimes misunderstand a doubt about coming off as meaning you aren't interested in tapering. Thanks for letting us know that you've already researched these drugs and are simply finding your own path, but are still interested in tapering. 

 

For those with a history of being in dark spaces, it's necessary to find non-drug ways of coping. Many people replace the need for drugs with these non-drug paths, such as yoga, mindfulness, connecting with other people, discovering a new hobby, etc.

 

And as the taper ends and recovery begins, just feeling overall better after being sick for so long opens up new possibilities. Many people find that although they thought the drugs were helping them cope for many years, they were basically being kept numb from pain, which can be helpful, but they weren't as fully awake and alive as when they're off these drugs and have healed. Just some thoughts to help with the doubts. 

 

You may want to have a read of the Success Stories to get more of an idea of what I mean:

 

Success Stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

 

 

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The problem is, that sooner or later, the comfort drug will stop working! 

And then, probably will find ourselves, in a worse situation than before. 

Citalopram 20 mg

Mid June 1994- end March 1995 Then tapering 3 months 

Mid August 1995-end August 1996 Tapering 6 months 

Mid January 2000-end September 2001 Tapering 6 months

Mid October 2003-end October 2005 Tapering 7 years. 

More detailed drug history is here - ☼-kostas

Off any drug from October 2012 

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