Jump to content
Jmizz

Jmizz: Lamictal taper suggestions

Recommended Posts

Jmizz

@Shep

thanks for the reply...do you think that with my use history...my problems are most likely rebound anxiety a few days after I use it? I’m just wondering if the way I’ve used it has caused PAWs from benzos on top of lexapro withdrawal? 
 

as I stop and think about it, my anxiety seemed to get so much better when I stopped the past 3-4 weeks. However I think the anxiety from dropping lamictal pretty quick caught up to me around Xmas. Next time I’ll try to make sure to fight it. I’m now thinking @Altostrata and I were making lamictal dose adjustments based off the anxiety I was feeling from ativan. Bc I would take it and then feel good for 2-3 days and then I’d get bad again and take it again. This went on for about 2-2.5 weeks before i read about kindling and decided to stop and fight through a few days. I think yesterday was so bad bc it was the 3rd day after I took ativan. Hoping today is better.

Share this post


Link to post
Shep
1 minute ago, Jmizz said:

do you think that with my use history...my problems are most likely rebound anxiety a few days after I use it?

 

Did you keep a diary or journal with your drugs and symptoms during the days you were taking Ativan? If so, you may want to read through it and see if there's any indication that you were getting interdose or rebound symptoms. The half-life of Ativan is 10 - 20 hours, depending on how fast you metabolize it. 

 

3 minutes ago, Jmizz said:

I’m just wondering if the way I’ve used it has caused PAWs from benzos on top of lexapro withdrawal?

 

 

Had you ever taken a benzo prior to May 2019? If not, and your only exposure is the days you listed in your post here, it's possible it's destabilized you more than if you hadn't been exposed to benzos, but I wouldn't worry about it sending you into a protracted state. 

 

You may want to dispose of them at your pharmacy so you're not tempted to use them if you decide not to tempt yourself. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Shep

 

I didn’t keep a journal. Just mentally.  I’ve started to as of late, I’ve been sharing with alto. For me, when I took ativan during this past period of sparing use for a couple weeks...I would feel almost normal the second half of the day I took it. And then the next day was pretty good also. But by day 3 I’d struggle bad, and usually by day 4 I’d take one. I read about kindling and decided to push through and not take it anymore. But I had also just dropped lamictal and I find it’s always easy not to take it immediate following dose drops, I get like a honeymoon period and then after a couple weeks I start to struggle again.
 

I never used a benzo before May. Maybe once I took a Xanax for a flight to st Lucia. I think the antidepressants destabilized me and then the added use of ativan at bad times was just prob making things worse. It’s hard though bc taking it is really the only time I can feel close to normal. But I know it’s not fixing anything, just a bandaid.

Share this post


Link to post
Shep
1 hour ago, Jmizz said:

I never used a benzo before May.

 

If I were you, I'd get rid of the Ativan or put it away for absolute emergencies of no more than 2 or 3 times a month. Since you never used them before the handful of times you have this year, you're fortunate that you can simply stop. 

 

Benzo withdrawal is just as bad as antidepressant withdrawal. Try to manage with non-drug coping techniques and see if that gets you through. These are the kinds of things we need to learn anyway to cope with life once we're off these drugs. Please see: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@bottlehalffull how are you doing? Do you still feel the magnesium has been helping you? And what kind do you take?

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Emma7855 

How are you? how are the chewables going? Did you start yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

 

12-28-19

530-wake

600-800-still fighting some morning depression, seemed a little better

800-dose 18.75mg

800-900seemed to feel the medicine a little more today, wasn’t terrible 

900-400-wasn’t too bad, mood is still fluctuating and I’m not handling stress as well as I had been

400-akathisia type anxiety came on, started feeling some nausea and foggy ness, grew very restless until I ate at 530
530-8anxiety/nausea improved after eating, depressed mood returns, dry mouth nearing 8pm

8pm dose-18.75mg
8-9 feel more relaxed almost immediately after my dose...felt the medicine again this evening after around an hour, but again not terrible
930- traz 50mg melatonin 2.5mg

 

im hoping I’m just still adjusting to lower overall dose in my body and my mood will stabilize soon

 

i think you are correct I need to dose 3 times a day. I struggle from 4-8 it seems. i hate the idea of another change but I have to bridge the gap from 4-8 somehow. I can literally feel it almost to the minute when it seems to wear off between 3:30-4. I was thinking maybe dose close to the same in the morning, 5 in the afternoon and shave some off the evening dose. That way if I get effects from lowering it’ll be at night and I can sleep through it. Thoughts?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

I would try 15mg, 5mg, 17.5mg, weight towards evening, That last dose has to give you coverage through the night. Your nighttime regimen is working, I wouldn't change it too much.

Share this post


Link to post
bottlehalffull

Everything's still good! The past couple days have been a little eh, but it's also PMS time so it's not surprising. Today when I took my dose I didn't have any nausea at all, even though I took it on an empty stomach. I'm taking magnesium chloride, it's pretty strong. It's supposed to be the most absorbable of the non-organic magnesiums. (It's not chelated. Chelated is probably better but more expensive and harder to find for me.) I take 100 mg dissolved in water when I take the lamotrigine. With a little salt because I have low blood pressure and it makes it taste less bitter. But if you're not used to it and you have a sensitive stomach, you'll probably want to start with smaller doses spread out more. The times I've taken too much and it's acted like a laxative it wasn't too uncomfortable though. It didn't cause a ton of cramping or anything, it was just time to go!

 

My experience with melatonin is I can use a break every few days, but I don't know how the trazadone affects that. For me it works well two or three nights in a row, but then starts making me groggy in the morning. The magnesium is another thing you can try for sleep. I've been keeping some water with 50 mg mixed in by the bed for if (I mean when) I wake up in the night.

 

Are you drinking enough water? Lamotrigine dries me out!! I think that's part of the brain fog and headaches for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

If you take magnesium at night and it ends up having a laxative effect, when does it normally hit you? Throughout the next day or immediately? One time thing or repeatedly? I’m a fireman so there are times I don’t have access to a bathroom for a period of time. That’s the reason for the questions. How do you dose your magnesium? I saw you said you drink it with the lamictal dose, what time of day? And how long do the effects usually last. Last question....do you find you feel withdrawish when you are approaching your Lamictal dose time? I dose twice a day now, alto has suggested a small dose midday bc it wears off for me around 3-4pm and the next few hours suck everyday til dose time.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

my brother is skiing in Canada. I’ll have to wait probably a week to get him to write my a prescription for 5mg. In the mean time I’ll just use a 25mg tablet and do the same thing as usual but I’ll extract 1mL and drink it for 5mg dose. 
 

I didn’t sleep well last night, so this morning sucked pretty bad. Afternoon was ok until 3-4pm like clockwork. I’m going to give it a try tomorrow 3 times. Nervous about another change but I gotta quit withdrawing for 4 hours every afternoon.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

ive got a lot of questions that have been popping into my head at times. I was hoping when you get time you may can answer some. There seem to be a lot of no-no’s in withdrawal. I find out about more as time goes on. Some questions I had:

 

1.antibiotics and/or steroid shots are not advised im sure. I didn’t do anything for the little bug I had but it made me curious about if I had an infection or something that usually requires intervention.

 

2. I read a lot about the lamictal in antidepressant withdrawal stuff you had written and posted years ago. The idea is to use the lamictal to navigate the antidepressant withdrawal? I’m just wondering at what point you know when it’s ok to come off the lamictal. I wish I’d found this first and started at a way lower dose.

 

3. does Lamictal help speed up recovery? Or does it just minimize symptoms while the a/d withdrawal takes course?

 

4. do you think I’d benefit with my case by taking magnesium...I was thinking of trying chelated glycinate maybe?

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

If necessary, take an antibiotic. Get the infection cultured first if you can so you can be sure you need an antibiotic.

 

What would you need a steroid for?

 

Lamictal is a crutch to keep your nervous system from spiraling into cycles of activation. You will be able to taper off it after a period of stability during which you should feel pretty good.

 

A lot of people find magnesium to be calming and relaxing. Magnesium glycinate is not as laxative as other forms, Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium is a good chelated product.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz
43 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium is a good chelated product.

 That’s the exact product I was looking at. Thanks

 

I took 15mg this morning and 5mg at 1:45pm. I’ll let you know how it goes tonight. 
 

so when you say a period of stability where I feel pretty good. This would mean feeling relatively close to normal for some time?

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

 

5am-wake restless legs

6-7:30- need a dose feel

7:45-15mg water

8:45 mild nausea and activation feel as dose hits

9-1 I seemed to experience a pretty good window from 11-12:30 or so

1pm- feels as if morning dose is wearing off, antsy, mild akathisia

1:45-5mg water 

2-4feel relatively ok anxiety wise aside from exploring SA too much and getting a little anxiety, dry mouth becomes an issue

5- the withdrawish feelings I have been getting in afternoon seemed like maybe it was pushed back 1.5 hours or so, around 5 I start getting some nausea and akathisia/restlessness again, not as bad as past days, but still uncomfortable, dry mouth getting bad, also numb feeling around my face and jawline 

6-dinner...dinner always seems to ease my nausea some, around 7:15 my body is saying it’s dose time for sure now 

7:45- dose 17.5 mg water

8-930- dry mouth worsens 
9:30-traz and melatonin 

 

so is it fast metabolization or is it kindling do you think? Or both

 

it appears that any Sort of dose tweak causes me pretty bad dry mouth and some level of nausea, the nausea seems more related to when my dose in system gets low but then I think when I change doses and I have more in my system at various parts of the day than I’m used to it happens to some extent as well. The dry mouth seems way worse when I make adjustments to add more in my system at certain parts of the day where it’s usually lower, however I do seem to get some drymouth from it being near dose time also. The numbness and tingles around my face seems to happen as the dose gets lower in my system also. 
 

Did you have trouble going off Lamictal?

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

You're very sensitive. Give the new dosing schedule 4 days to smooth out.

Share this post


Link to post
Emma7855

Chewables are good -- haven't noticed any difference between them and the normal tablets. Hope you're doing okay.

Share this post


Link to post
bottlehalffull

I don't get withdrawal before my next dose, I'm still taking it once a day (4-5 pm) and it's fine. I get my nausea, extra fatigue, and anxiety right after a dose, about 30 min to 2 hours. It's less noticible than it used to be though. The past couple days I've been getting body aches again but I can't really tie it temporally to anything. Except maybe my menstrual cycle.

Besides all the other differences between us, you might be more sensitive because you're also in withdrawal from an SSRI.

I don't really remember the timing on when magnesium's acted like a laxative. It's only been once or twice, and I've been taking it a long time. Probably within a few hours. I read some forum where people were using it specifically as a laxtive, and a lot of them were saying that they take it at night have have a nice normal bm in the morning. (The forum seems like it was old constipated people.) If you start out slow it probably won't be an issue. I think the times it's made me go to the bathroom were when I took large repeated doses to try to get rid of a migraine.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

You know @Altostrata I’ve got to update my signature. I realized my original Zoloft timeline is a year off bc I associate it with my sons birth but he was born on 3-16-17 and I mistakingly wrote that my sertraline use was in 2016. But really it was 17. So therefore all the problems that led me back to sertraline and the subsequent bad reaction happened around 12-14 months after my cold turkey. And knowing what I’ve learned since finding this forum, I now believe it was delayed withdrawal symptoms from being over stressed. I also went back and read through all my texts during that time period and I received a solumedrol steroid injection during that time also. Im guessing this is why I had an adverse reaction on the first pill. My symptoms to try the medicine again went in this order, stress/anxiety->digestive issues->panic/agoraphobia bc of digestive issues->racing thoughts and catastrophizing about career and social life->more moderate alcohol use to cope-> depression/anhedonia.

 

its all really disheartening. Prob just a wave I could have rode for a couple more weeks.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

Apologies, from now on just advice and positive vibes.

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Jmizz, don't blame yourself. Everybody here has a similar trail of misunderstandings and mistakes. Forgive yourself, on to the new year!

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata
 

hey I was looking at the honeybee link you sent a while back, according to that, 240 pills of 5mg dispersibles is $22.00. Is that real, or is there a catch to this somewhere? It’s that simple to just order it or do I have to submit a claim or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

Nevermind I was reading about it and they don’t serve my state.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

12-31-19

4-5am wake/in and out sleep til around 6

6-8 typical need a dose feel/neck upper shoulder pain left side

8-15mg

9-some activation from dose

10-2 restless stay busy

2-need a dose feel take 5mg water

3-horrible anxiety fit/maybe reading too much but also bc I feel medicine even with just a 5mg dose

3-5 cooking food for guests/feel overwhelmed but push thru, facial numb feeling around mouth and jawline

6-8 occupied/outdoors...feel pretty good mentally, dry mouth again, get antsy as 8 approaches

8-dose 17.5mg

9:30-traz50mel5 fall asleep quick

 

1-1-20

4am wake- in and out sleep til 6:30 
6:30-8 feel ok

8-15mg water

9- some activation

10-2 feel decent mentally/physically some neck and upper back tension pain

2-Lunch, need a dose feel, take 5mg

2-3-digestive issues, I got panicky bc my internet wasn’t working and I thought maybe I got banned from SA for negative post, don’t know if maybe the adrenaline caused the stomach stuff bc I had just ate?

3-7 feel ok mentally, physical pain in neck and upper back, facial numb feeling around mouth a jawline, some head pressure...slight headache starts around 4 and lingers, also my eyes got really itchy, this happened when I dropped the dose last also after a few days, but it was accompanied by sneezing and runny nose, this time it was just eye itching...so far

7-8 start feeling like dose time

8-17.5mg

8-9 headache lingers, upper back and neck pain, dry mouth and just dried up everywhere in my sinuses it feels like

9:30-traz and mel

 

hoping this waking up at 4 stuff resolves as the dose times get familiar

 

headache may be caffeine related, I usually drink like maybe 1 full coke a day maybe a little less spread throughout the day to stave off withdrawal every day but I didn’t today 

 

going to psych tom, going to feel her out on the 5mg pills again, hopefully I can get at least 60, if not I’ll get my bro to write it for 60 instead of 240, if nothing else I want to make the 2pm dose more convenient... prob end up being my last visit to her

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

forgot to tag you in my last symptoms post

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

 

i can’t believe I’m asking this. But a while back you had mentioned possibly reinstating 0.5mg of celexa which is lexapros sister drug. But I read in the reinstatement blog where people who seem sensitive and have hyperalerting may not do well. Also I’m taking trazodone and Lamictal now. I will mention this, i now thing my adverse reactions to Zoloft was bc it acted as a reinstatement 12-14 months later and the dosage at 50mg was ridiculous. However when I was switched to lexapro at 10mg I seemed to stabilize until I ruined it by drinking. Then I went to 20mg and actually seemed to stabilize again for a week or so before my birthday weekend drinking destabilized me again. As I tapered down too fast there were times when I’d feel really good in the afternoon and maybe I was going to stabilize if I gave it more time. I don’t know, I just thought I’d ask, it’s probably a really bad idea, bc I’m probably kindled now and it’s been 4.5 months since my last dose.

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Best to minimize drug experiments. I think you can make do with the lamotrigine. It may take some time for the dosage change to even out, please hang in there.

 

You haven't posted anything negative, stop worrying!

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

yeah sorry, I was having a moment this morning. Hey I bought to magnesium sulfate epsom salt, package says 2 cups. I was thinking about doing 1cup in the bath tonight. Is that too much to start out?

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Sure, you can start out with 1 cup Epsom salts.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

so I got 60 of the 5mg dispersibles. They don’t say anything about being chewable though. They are oval shaped with a line through the middle. It’s a different manufacturer than my 25mg tablets, will this cause me any issues? I plan to start popping the 5mg at 2pm for convenience, so I don’t have to plan my day around a chemistry experiment. The good news is I got 60 and will on need one a day, so eventually I’ll build up a supply for if needed down the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Good to hear. Interesting that they are scored to be split. You can just take them like a regular pill.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

 

1-3-19

630am-wake

7-8 need a dose feel maybe not as bad but there

8-15mg Lamictal 
9-take son to indoor playground with friend and his son...agoraphobia, anxiety/akathisia , worked through it, felt better when I left

10-2 felt pretty good until approaching 2, need a dose feel

2-5mg water

3-7 dinner wasn’t planned out, had to decide last second, increased anxiety, head sensations, upper back and neck pain, parathesis jaw and around mouth numbness

8-17.5mg water

9- epsom salt bath 

9:30-50mg traz 5mg melatonin 
sleep good

 


1-4-19

 

5:30 wake for work

7-8 need a dose feel

8- 15 mg lamictal 

9-1 random drug test at work, don’t do well with unscheduled surprises....anxiety was awful/what I consider parathesia was bad all day, numbness of face, burning ear, tingly skin

2pm-dose 5mg chewable

3-530- i cooked dinner at the firehouse which is stressful in WD and brain zaps returned while feeling stressed, haven’t felt brain zaps in prob 2 months except maybe sometimes if I take a few sips of coke for caffeine occasionally 

6-8 anxiety is bad, too much downtime but it was bad today, worse than it has been during downtime lately
8pm-17.5mg

9-dose feelings went away/anxiety restlessness still there

9:30-trazadone 50 melatonin5

 

i don’t know if the magnesium brought back brain zaps from the baths the last two nights, I read where somebody else it happened, I didn’t notice any yesterday but today I had them pretty regular every a few minute while I was cooking dinner from 3-5, seemed to go away when I was less occupied, the timeline suggests maybe the 5mg chewable? Who knows


I may be in a horrible wave brought on by Christmas and the fact that I drank 4 sips of beer to appear socially normal around my wife’s family, so dumb, I had a rough day or two leading up to that but i definitely got worse after that day(24th), but it was also about 15/20 days since my last Lamictal drop, Maybe compounding issues

 

do you really think I can stabilize on Lamictal. Can I really heal while still taking these other drugs?My story seems to line up this way after what I’ve learned:

 

11/2017- 6 months zoloft CT 

03/2019-late wave probably caused by sleep deprivation, steroid shot, stress, alcohol, caffeine and sinus surgery in nov 2018...leads to attempt at reinstatement 50mg adverse reaction

05/2019 stable on 10mg lexapro 2 weeks, ruined by alcohol 

06-2019 stabilized on 20mg lexapro 1 week, ruined by alcohol

08-2019 complete 6 week 20-10-5-0 taper which is basically another CT

 

I’m having a rough day, just hoping for some encouragement , I know I just need to not change anything and hold...maybe I should hold off on the mag

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Shep

could you give me some help. What’s the usual timeline from stopping a benzo and problems starting to arise. I realize the immediate rebound anxiety, when would further down the road symptoms begin, and which ones are unique to benzos that would maybe point to them over the ssri?

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Sorry about the beer. We know alcohol can be destabilizing.

 

Was it very hot when you were cooking?

 

You're in an in-between period, having just moved the lamotrigine dose, plus destabilization from the beer. Can you observe for a week or two? Your condition does not seem to be benzo withdrawal.

Share this post


Link to post
Jmizz

@Altostrata

 

6-wake

7-8- dose feels

8-15mg Lamictal water

8-10 more of a depressive feel, fatigue

10-2 depression lifts and anxiety comes, able to sit still and watch football which is better than the akathisia type, still uncomfortable 

2pm-5mg dispersible

3pm-horrible activation feeling I haven’t felt since I was taking 50mg at one time

4-6 anxiety is bad but it’s a stomach tension anxiety not chest tightening, It feels the way I felt back in March before my adverse reaction, it’s more manageable to me then the chest squeezing panicky anxiety, mood is relative good being outside with son

6-8 coming inside after being outdoors is always hard, take a shower and seem to relax some, eat dinner at 645
7:30-dose feels hit

8-17.5mg water

8-9 feel pretty relaxed and relatively ok

9:30- traz 50 melatonin 5

 

i think I’m reacting to the 5mg dispersible maybe, will this settle after a few days or should I go back to mixing it off the 25mg tablet, morning and evening dose were ok after, 2pm dose hit hard an hour later it seemed

 

im ashamed of myself for the alcohol, I just grow tired of the questions and I figured a couple sips would shut people up and would be harmless, I’m coming to terms with the fact that if I breathe wrong my brain will react right now. I hope I didn’t fully reset any progess made to this point.

There were some good moments today, it wasn’t all bad, mainly just anxiety and revamped physical stuff, facial numbing and flushing in particular, mood wise I was pretty decent today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy