Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline

[mstimc]

7 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Hi

 

Thankfully, my incessant search has only yielded four symptoms, big ones but only four. 

 

It’s also interesting in that I don’t think you ever independently advised that work and coping strategies would likely be too much for me? You certainly pushed me to fight the good fight, not give into symptoms etc. However, I don’t recall you expressing that sentiment.

 

Obrigado.

I didn't but others have and I've posted similar advice to other members.  If you're interested in scoring debate points, be my guest.  I'm here to support you, not lead you by the hand.  Again, what are you doing to recover?

Edited March 17, 2020 by mstimc

[Snorky]

2 hours ago, mstimc said:

I didn't but others have and I've posted similar advice to other members.  If you're interested in scoring debate points, be my guest.  I'm here to support you, not lead you by the hand.  Again, what are you doing to recover?

Hi

 

No debating points, far from it. Not remotely thinking about that. It was just the C advice is the only one along those lines. I’d already taken six weeks sickness absence between Nov and Dec 30. The “rest”, if that’s what it was didn’t help me one iota. I had massive loneliness, anxiety and depressive symptoms. Although I feel  worse now than I did then, I know I benefit from the contact and distraction from work. I was also previously working from home one day a week, and my employer offered me the chance to extend this, I didn’t take up the offer, as was worried about isolation, and even refrained from my one day a week.

 

Fast forward to now, and C virus will probably force me to work from home full time. This is far from ideal for someone in my condition.

 

Re your last prompt-am speaking to my therapist tomorrow. Will let you know what we agree.

 

Thanks.

 

[Colonial]

I by no means told you to isolate yourself.

I was very clear I did not advocate locking yourself in a closet all day.

My advice concern was the "Overload" to your CNS  with too much incoming external stimuli. 

 

Please do not private message me for advice and then turn around and publicly post  attributing something to me that I by no means said.

[Colonial]

2 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thankfully, my incessant search has only yielded four symptoms, big ones but only four. 

As long as your main focus is "incessantly" searching for what is wrong, you will continue to find it.

Any of us will.

The problem is, when it gets to be an "Obsession", you start finding "phantom" things wrong that aren't truly existing in reality, as much as Your just  thinking they do.

 

[Colonial]

8 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Fast forward to now, and C virus will probably force me to work from home full time. This is far from ideal for someone in my condition.

I think it is ideal, because you can take breaks and do things spread out over more time, and allow your nervous system breaks during the day, instead of overwhelming it by forcing it to do too much all at once.  

 

If you want to continue to "assume" each new change in your life is for the worst before you've even tried it, you will talk your brain into believing it to be true, and it will react as such.

 

[Snorky]

18 minutes ago, Colonial said:

I think it is ideal, because you can take breaks and do things spread out over more time, and allow your nervous system breaks during the day, instead of overwhelming it by forcing it to do too much all at once.  

 

If you want to continue to "assume" each new change in your life is for the worst before you've even tried it, you will talk your brain into believing it to be true, and it will react as such.

 

I’ve already alluded to how lonely, neurotic I felt while I was off for six weeks, “home alone”. I know I get destroyed when I mention the toxic s word, but I had/have palpable depression/anhedonia/restlessness symptoms in addition to the neuro/anxiety induced ones. Believe me, this does not lend itself to bring home alone, for any period, let slime 3-4 months.

[Colonial]

2 minutes ago, Snorky said:

I’ve already alluded to how lonely, neurotic I felt while I was off for six weeks, “home alone”. I know I get destroyed when I mention the toxic s word, but I had/have palpable depression/anhedonia/restlessness symptoms in addition to the neuro/anxiety induced ones. Believe me, this does not lend itself to bring home alone, for any period, let slime 3-4 months.

Well, it's coming for most people.

So it might be in your best interest to start learning- using coping skills to deal with it when it happens instead of posting complaints about it.

Your choice. 

The more time you "waste" online posting about how bad everything is, the less time you have to mentally prepare for what is probably the inevitable, the shut down of most workplaces for a minimum of a month.  When?  That depends on the spread of the virus.

 

[Snorky]

14 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Well, it's coming for most people.

So it might be in your best interest to start learning- using coping skills to deal with it when it happens instead of posting complaints about it.

Your choice. 

The more time you "waste" online posting about how bad everything is, the less time you have to mentally prepare for what is probably the inevitable, the shut down of most workplaces for a minimum of a month.  When?  That depends on the spread of the virus.

 

I’m only too well aware of the roll out of reducing social contact situations. (I work for the government that is implementing this policy)

 

Thankfully, the gov intends to keep its offices open, but allow as many of its employees as possible to wfh. It will be advantageous for some to attend work to help those with caring responsibilities. My employer is happy for me to continue attending, so I can avoid the Macauley Culkin thing.

[mstimc]

8 minutes ago, Snorky said:

I’m only too well aware of the roll out of reducing social contact situations. (I work for the government that is implementing this policy)

 

Thankfully, the gov intends to keep its offices open, but allow as many of its employees as possible to wfh. It will be advantageous for some to attend work to help those with caring responsibilities. My employer is happy for me to continue attending, so I can avoid the Macauley Culkin thing.

I'm sorry, Snorky, but again you're sending mixed messages.  In your response to me, you said:

 

"Fast forward to now, and C virus will probably force me to work from home full time. This is far from ideal for someone in my condition."

Now you just said

"My employer is happy for me to continue attending, so I can avoid the Macauley Culkin thing."

 

This is what can make it challenging to give you meaningful advice.  Which is it?  Will you be forced to work from home or allowed to stay at your worksite?

 

"

[Colonial]

9 minutes ago, mstimc said:

I'm sorry, Snorky, but again you're sending mixed messages.  In your response to me, you said:

 

"Fast forward to now, and C virus will probably force me to work from home full time. This is far from ideal for someone in my condition."

Now you just said

"My employer is happy for me to continue attending, so I can avoid the Macauley Culkin thing."

 

This is what can make it challenging to give you meaningful advice.  Which is it?  Will you be forced to work from home or allowed to stay at your worksite?

 

"

 

This is true, you catastrophize a worst case scenerio, and then when someone tries to help implement a way for you to go about successfully dealing with that, you back out of that reality.  Your constantly "manipulating" your own facts, as you "perceive" them, to avoid having to deal with the main issues facing you.

 

This is becoming like Rozon, you want a forum to come and "complain" to some extent, and have people interact with you about the problem, a sit and chat about it session, but as soon as Your asked to deal with the issue head on, you deflect so you don't have to take responsibility to make the changes.

 

There's always a reason why, what is being asked of you behaviorally to change, can't possibly be done or doesn't apply to You.

 

If so, then why do You come back so often? And I'm not trying to be rude,  but the Mods and the rest of us need to know what your really wanting from us.

If it's just to talk about things but never implement anything, this is going to end up "shutting down" rather quickly.

 

[mstimc]

1 minute ago, Colonial said:

 

This is true, you catastrophize a worst case scenerio, and then when someone tries to help implement a way for you to go about successfully dealing with that, you back out of that reality.  Your constantly "manipulating" your own facts, as you "perceive" them, to avoid having to deal with the main issues facing you.

 

This is becoming like Rozon, you want a forum to come and "complain" to some extent, and have people interact with you about the problem, a sit and chat about it session, but as soon as Your asked to deal with the issue head on, you deflect so you don't have to take responsibility to make the changes.

 

There's always a reason why, what is being asked of you behaviorally to change, can't possibly be done or doesn't apply to You.

 

If so, then why do You come back so often? And I'm not trying to be rude,  but the Mods and the rest of us need to know what your really wanting from us.

If it's just to talk about things but never implement anything, this is going to end up "shutting down" rather quickly.

 

 

I have to agree with Colonial on this, Snorky.  See also this comment:

57 minutes ago, Snorky said:

I know I get destroyed when I mention the toxic s word, but I had/have palpable depression/anhedonia/restlessness symptoms in addition to the neuro/anxiety induced ones

 

Nobody is "destroying" you when you mention symptoms.  But mentioning symptoms over and over gets you, nor us, anywhere.  I keep coming back to the question that never seems to get answered:

 

What are you going to do about your situation?  

 

When I was a member of Paxilprogress and in WD, I, too, brought up symptoms and problems, but with the intention of learning how to handle them and overcome the thinking that led to them.  I wanted guidance on how to get my life back.  I used the advice I got and put it work.  We want to help; we want to listen and we want you to get your life back too.  But you need to do your part and use what you're given.

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

I'm sorry, Snorky, but again you're sending mixed messages.  In your response to me, you said:

 

"Fast forward to now, and C virus will probably force me to work from home full time. This is far from ideal for someone in my condition."

Now you just said

"My employer is happy for me to continue attending, so I can avoid the Macauley Culkin thing."

 

This is what can make it challenging to give you meaningful advice.  Which is it?  Will you be forced to work from home or allowed to stay at your worksite?

 

"

Sorry to confuse. Earlier comments based on hunch. Policy only agreed today. You will appreciate this is s v fast moving and complicated situation. 

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, Colonial said:

 

This is true, you catastrophize a worst case scenerio, and then when someone tries to help implement a way for you to go about successfully dealing with that, you back out of that reality.  Your constantly "manipulating" your own facts, as you "perceive" them, to avoid having to deal with the main issues facing you.

 

This is becoming like Rozon, you want a forum to come and "complain" to some extent, and have people interact with you about the problem, a sit and chat about it session, but as soon as Your asked to deal with the issue head on, you deflect so you don't have to take responsibility to make the changes.

 

There's always a reason why, what is being asked of you behaviorally to change, can't possibly be done or doesn't apply to You.

 

If so, then why do You come back so often? And I'm not trying to be rude,  but the Mods and the rest of us need to know what your really wanting from us.

If it's just to talk about things but never implement anything, this is going to end up "shutting down" rather quickly.

 

I’ve just responded to this.

[Snorky]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

 

I have to agree with Colonial on this, Snorky.  See also this comment:

 

Nobody is "destroying" you when you mention symptoms.  But mentioning symptoms over and over gets you, nor us, anywhere.  I keep coming back to the question that never seems to get answered:

 

What are you going to do about your situation?  

 

When I was a member of Paxilprogress and in WD, I, too, brought up symptoms and problems, but with the intention of learning how to handle them and overcome the thinking that led to them.  I wanted guidance on how to get my life back.  I used the advice I got and put it work.  We want to help; we want to listen and we want you to get your life back too.  But you need to do your part and use what you're given.

Think there’s been an over reaction here. Was originally advised we’d have to wfh. The policy was issued today, and there is scope for some to carry on attending office. No “manipulation of own facts”!!!!

[mstimc]

Snorky, is you really want to recover, you need to stop with the evasion and word games.   You were freaking out over the possibility of working from home.  Colonial advised you to prepare yourself and try to stay positive.   You responded with a repeat of your symptoms:

 

"I’ve already alluded to how lonely, neurotic I felt while I was off for six weeks, “home alone”. I know I get destroyed when I mention the toxic s word, but I had/have  palpable depression/anhedonia/restlessness symptoms in addition to the neuro/anxiety induced ones. Believe me, this does not lend itself to bring home alone, for any period, let slime 3-4 months."

 

Then the thing you dreaded suddenly disappeared when you said you can still go in to work.  And rather than say anything about how you intend to deal with the eventual possibility of working from home and your continuing battle against your symptoms, you try to clarify what you meant as opposed to what you wrote.  And again  you didn't answer what you intend to do, other than seeing your therapist.  Maybe more pointed questions would help define what you expect from this site:

 

1.  What do you want from other members, mentors, mods and admins?   Guidance?  Advice on recovery?

 

2.  Given the amount of advice and guidance you've already received, what do you intend to do with what's been shared?

 

3.  What do you see as your role in your recovery?  

 

You are certainly not "required" to answer these questions, and whatever path you choose is up to you.  But if you really want us to be of any help, we need a clear idea of what your intentions are.   Let's try working together to get you where you want to be.

[Altostrata]

Snorky, this is a site for people tapering off psychiatric drugs and coping with withdrawal symptoms. While mstimc has been very generous with his time trying to help you, we do not offer any kind of psychotherapy here.

 

It doesn't matter whether what we tell you agrees with the discussions you have with your therapist, Snorky. This isn't a place to compare the two. Your inner life is really none of our business. Working from home is a problem? You can't take responsibility for learning coping strategies? Please continue to discuss this with your therapist. We're not going to be able to fix you.

 

I do not think we can help you within our realm, which is drug tapering and coping with withdrawal syndrome. We require members to take responsibility for their own self-care. If you would like to talk about depression or your inability to learn coping strategies, please join another forum, such as patientslikeme.com or depressionforums.org

 

I do not expect to see further discussion about your job or your mood disorder on this site. Any hijacking of others' threads will earn you warnings.

 

 

[Snorky]

On 3/17/2020 at 11:29 PM, Altostrata said:

Snorky, this is a site for people tapering off psychiatric drugs and coping with withdrawal symptoms. While mstimc has been very generous with his time trying to help you, we do not offer any kind of psychotherapy here.

 

It doesn't matter whether what we tell you agrees with the discussions you have with your therapist, Snorky. This isn't a place to compare the two. Your inner life is really none of our business. Working from home is a problem? You can't take responsibility for learning coping strategies? Please continue to discuss this with your therapist. We're not going to be able to fix you.

 

I do not think we can help you within our realm, which is drug tapering and coping with withdrawal syndrome. We require members to take responsibility for their own self-care. If you would like to talk about depression or your inability to learn coping strategies, please join another forum, such as patientslikeme.com or depressionforums.org

 

I do not expect to see further discussion about your job or your mood disorder on this site. Any hijacking of others' threads will earn you warnings.

 

 

Update on condition, but not about job or “mood disorder”.  Now have 24/7 pins and needles/pressure sensation in head, coupled with head tremors. Utterly impossible to sleep, function communicate etc. I’m sure it’s just typical wave and will go away.

[mstimc]

10 hours ago, Snorky said:

 I’m sure it’s just typical wave and will go away.

Yes, it is typical as described by other members.  That knowledge alone should give you some comfort, albeit it doesn't make it any easier to deal with at the moment.

[Snorky]

The clue is deteriorating. Also unable to find head tremors reported, where they are, only alleviated by reinstatement. 

[Snorky]

Just reading recent exchanges with Roxon re her withdrawal nightmare.  I see people pitching in with the “don’t confuse WD with return to norm”. I’m just keeping fingers and everything else crossed that my new norm doesn’t include Parkinsonism, unbearable head pressure, insomnia. nerve pain and black depressive episodes. I’m almost 61, but don’t recall any of these things when first prescribed ADs in early 90s.

[mstimc]

19 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Just reading recent exchanges with Roxon re her withdrawal nightmare.  I see people pitching in with the “don’t confuse WD with return to norm”. I’m just keeping fingers and everything else crossed that my new norm doesn’t include Parkinsonism, unbearable head pressure, insomnia. nerve pain and black depressive episodes. I’m almost 61, but don’t recall any of these things when first prescribed ADs in early 90s.

Hi Snorky

As I'm sure you've also seen in our posts on Rozon's thread, you need to take your focus off your symptoms and onto coping strategies.  Where are you with that?

[Snorky]

2 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Hi Snorky

As I'm sure you've also seen in our posts on Rozon's thread, you need to take your focus off your symptoms and onto coping strategies.  Where are you with that?

Hi M

 

Sleeping semi normal is a precursor to adopting coping strategies. I currently get about two hours a night. Dread each night, insomnia mainly due to the head tightness thing, then cortisol spike, stomach churning.

 

Tried meditation, but no joy, Now have syringe to split my mag glycinate so going to try that tonight.

[Colonial]

Like many things, it's takes time for benefits to be seen.

Trying a coping mechanism only a few times probably wont be enough.

They are something that we need to make a habit, and over a month or so we notice improvements.

 

You've been in a bad spot since November, giving up on something after only a week is premature.

These are new "lifetime" habits that we are trying to build. Don't quit over not having immediate results.

 

But blaming lack of sleep is, or could be, a "cop out" to taking responsibility.

You can't assume one thing has to be done before another.

Don't handicap yourself like that.

 

 

 

[mstimc]

4 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Hi M

 

Sleeping semi normal is a precursor to adopting coping strategies. I currently get about two hours a night. Dread each night, insomnia mainly due to the head tightness thing, then cortisol spike, stomach churning.

 

Tried meditation, but no joy, Now have syringe to split my mag glycinate so going to try that tonight.

In fact, consistently practicing coping/calming strategies will probably help you sleep.  It will also help break your obsessive thinking about your symptoms instead of your recovery. 

[Snorky]

3 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Like many things, it's takes time for benefits to be seen.

Trying a coping mechanism only a few times probably wont be enough.

They are something that we need to make a habit, and over a month or so we notice improvements.

 

You've been in a bad spot since November, giving up on something after only a week is premature.

These are new "lifetime" habits that we are trying to build. Don't quit over not having immediate results.

 

But blaming lack of sleep is, or could be, a "cop out" to taking responsibility.

You can't assume one thing has to be done before another.

Don't handicap yourself like that.

 

 

 

Didn’t say I was quitting anything. Just said I’m struggling due to sleep deprivation.

[Snorky]

5 minutes ago, mstimc said:

In fact, consistently practicing coping/calming strategies will probably help you sleep.  It will also help break your obsessive thinking about your symptoms instead of your recovery. 

One of the calming strategies was meditation. 

[Colonial]

I didn't say you were quitting,  just encouraging you not to, since you went out of your way to make a point of making a negative statement that you did not have any joy from the meditation. 

This is a constant in your posts: making sure your reporting the negative or lack of the positive. 

 

As for the Parkinson's obsession, it's unlikely its true Parkinson's, but anything is possible.

The early 90's was a long time ago, if it wasn't WD related, it most likely would have manifested before now.

 

 

[Snorky]

4 minutes ago, Colonial said:

I didn't say you were quitting,  just encouraging you not to, since you went out of your way to make a point of making a negative statement that you did not have any joy from the meditation. 

This is a constant in your posts: making sure your reporting the negative or lack of the positive. 

 

As for the Parkinson's obsession, it's unlikely its true Parkinson's, but anything is possible.

The early 90's was a long time ago, if it wasn't WD related, it most likely would have manifested before now.

 

 

I “enjoy” the meditation experience, it just has t impacted on insomnia. In addition to various breathing and meditation resources on here,  I’ve also been practicing TM for about 20 years, so v adept at that “coping strategy”. Unfortunately, this doesn’t seem to ameliorate the insomnia either. Just reporting how it is.

[Snorky]

Also this. I pointedly said “Parkinsonism”, not Parkinson’s. 

[mstimc]

4 minutes ago, Colonial said:

This is a constant in your posts: making sure your reporting the negative or lack of the positive. 

 

As for the Parkinson's obsession, it's unlikely its true Parkinson's, but anything is possible.

As I mentioned before, naming your dragon has value, but it can turn on you.  When I was in WD, I saw a lot of posts about all sorts of impressive-sounding symptoms like anhedonia and  akathisia, etc. etc.  One of the best moves I made was to stop trying to attach technical names to my symptoms.  I had anxiety, obsessive thinking and negative thoughts, and that was good enough.  Knowing they were common symptoms of WD helped me work on managing them.  When you're in WD, the tendency toward obsessing on symptoms is understandable but don't fall prey to confirming your own fears.  Negative thinking can make you fit any symptom to the worst possible outcome instead of dealing with the reality of withdrawal.  

[Snorky]

2 minutes ago, mstimc said:

As I mentioned before, naming your dragon has value, but it can turn on you.  When I was in WD, I saw a lot of posts about all sorts of impressive-sounding symptoms like anhedonia and  akathisia, etc. etc.  One of the best moves I made was to stop trying to attach technical names to my symptoms.  I had anxiety, obsessive thinking and negative thoughts, and that was good enough.  Knowing they were common symptoms of WD helped me work on managing them.  When you're in WD, the tendency toward obsessing on symptoms is understandable but don't fall prey to confirming your own fears.  Negative thinking can make you fit any symptom to the worst possible outcome instead of dealing with the reality of withdrawal.  

I’m sure I’ve already said I’m not remotely worried about shakes and nerve pain being linked to sinister neurological disease. I worry about them due to their severity and impact.

[Altostrata]

42 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Hi Snorky

As I'm sure you've also seen in our posts on Rozon's thread, you need to take your focus off your symptoms and onto coping strategies.  Where are you with that?

 

Snorky, you may have noticed I said We require members to take responsibility for their own self-care.

 

This site is not for free-style complaining. You insist upon recounting your worries and draw compassionate people like mstimc into debates about them. From now on, your worries are your own business. If you like them, keep doing them. We don't want to hear about it. Take them to patientslikeme.com or depressionforums.org

 

From now on, any posts here must be reports about what coping skills you are practicing. Yeah, learning stuff is hard. Your main problem is insomnia?

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Light therapy for sleep problems

 

 

Any post that does not contain a full, honest report about the coping skills you are practicing -- not thinking about practicing, but actively practicing -- will get a warning point. If you accumulate 4 warning points, you will be banned.

 

This is a site rule: We require members to take responsibility for their own self-care.

[Colonial]

I know how you phrased it, that's not the point and you know it.

The point is none of the things Your referring are likely independent problems on their own to be obsessing about.

 

Your constant arguing about minute points or grammar is attempting to not take responsibility and trying to deflect from facing the facts:

Nothing is going to resolve or improve overnight, and your constant thinking and posting the worst is going to delay your recovery.

 

If your well enough to go to work, your well enough to do the self care strategies.

Blaming insomnia is a "cop out".  You want to complain your Insomnia make self care strategies difficult, but you have enough stamina and concentration to hold a job.

But you wont take a leave of absence to recover.

You have to decide whats more important, getting better or just doing the minimal you can and then wasting your time posting nothing is helping.

 

But please don't waste time arguing about how things are phrased. 

We ALL KNOW your smarter than that and that you know the difference and what is being said.

Don't play word games to get around taking responsibility.

 

 

[mstimc]

Thank you Alto.  You kind of stole my thunder 😀 but yeah,  I was going to say there's no difference between worrying about a symptom as a result of WD versus some other cause.  Anything that drwas energy from recovery isn't helpful

[Snorky]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Snorky, you may have noticed I said We require members to take responsibility for their own self-care.

 

This site is not for free-style complaining. You insist upon recounting your worries and draw compassionate people like mstimc into debates about them. From now on, your worries are your own business. If you like them, keep doing them. We don't want to hear about it. Take them to patientslikeme.com or depressionforums.org

 

From now on, any posts here must be reports about what coping skills you are practicing. Yeah, learning stuff is hard. Your main problem is insomnia?

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Light therapy for sleep problems

 

 

Any post that does not contain a full, honest report about the coping skills you are practicing -- not thinking about practicing, but actively practicing -- will get a warning point. If you accumulate 4 warning points, you will be banned.

 

This is a site rule: We require members to take responsibility for their own self-care.

Transcendental meditation.

Bodyscan

Insight timer

Frantic world.comMark Williams

Distraction patterns

Breathing and other meditation 

Graduated muscle relaxation exercises 

Cognitive-trying combination of cognitive and physical activities. 

Cognitive creating situations and behaviour to reinforce.

[Altostrata]

Great. None of it is working? Please join patientslikeme.com or depressionforums.org to complain. Let us know when your self-care is working.