Indio Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Could the withdrawal problems of antidepressants or anxiolytics not be the result of the original problem not being properly treated? Can anyone say anything about this question ?? Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 19, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2019 No, because ADs do not actually work to treat anything. Lots of studies that show that they are no better than placebos. So the ADs will not help an "underlying condition". "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Onmyway said: Não, porque os anúncios não funcionam para tratar nada. Muitos estudos mostram que eles não são melhores que placebos. Portanto, os anúncios não ajudarão em uma "condição subjacente". Ok, but there are a lot of people for whom the drugs work, look good, don't have problems with withdrawal, or do a slow withdrawal. I personally know people who have been through this and feel good, and have not had any symptoms. Why some suffer so much and walk years in this hell and others have no problems, it is strange .... Does anyone have any idea what percentage of people are doing well without withdrawal problems and those who have withdrawal problems ??? Or are some lucky to be well-medicated and some not, I have also read that sometimes psychiatric drugs are a matter of trial and error until they hit one that works, is it ?? Can anyone say anything about this? Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 19, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2019 34 minutes ago, Indio said: Ok, but there are a lot of people for whom the drugs work, look good, don't have problems with withdrawal, or do a slow withdrawal. I personally know people who have been through this and feel good, and have not had any symptoms. Why some suffer so much and walk years in this hell and others have no problems, it is strange .... Does anyone have any idea what percentage of people are doing well without withdrawal problems and those who have withdrawal problems ??? Or are some lucky to be well-medicated and some not, I have also read that sometimes psychiatric drugs are a matter of trial and error until they hit one that works, is it ?? Can anyone say anything about this? I think you should read up on what placebo means. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Onmyway said: Eu acho que você deve ler o que significa placebo. Many studies show that drugs are no better than placebos, but also many studies show that drugs are effective ...... My question is why they work with some and do not work with others .... Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 19, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2019 Just now, Indio said: Many studies show that drugs are no better than placebos, but also many studies show that drugs are effective ...... My question is why they work with some and do not work with others .... They "work" as placebos for those for whom they "work". That's "why" they work. I can't go into statistics lessons but you can check out Irving Kirsch's work. Also, as you well know, even if they did work, we don't know everything they do in the brain so nobody here can answer your question. I'm not sure if you're trying to troll or you have symptoms questions/want to share something. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Troll ?? I asked a question: Could the withdrawal problems of antidepressants or anxiolytics not be the result of the original problem not being properly treated? Can anyone say anything about this question ?? Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 19, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Indio said: Ok, but there are a lot of people for whom the drugs work, look good, don't have problems with withdrawal, or do a slow withdrawal. I personally know people who have been through this and feel good, and have not had any symptoms. Why some suffer so much and walk years in this hell and others have no problems, it is strange .... Does anyone have any idea what percentage of people are doing well without withdrawal problems and those who have withdrawal problems ??? Or are some lucky to be well-medicated and some not, I have also read that sometimes psychiatric drugs are a matter of trial and error until they hit one that works, is it ?? Can anyone say anything about this? So since you have seen ADs work, you have your answer. I gave you a different answer and you didn't accept it. I'm not sure what you want. From the histories of people here you see the result of AD use. I don't think you'll get the answer you want here. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Onmyway said: Então, desde que você viu os aplicativos funcionarem, você tem sua resposta. Dei uma resposta diferente e você não é aceito. Não tenho certeza de que você quer. A partir das histórias das pessoas aqui, você vê o resultado do uso do AD. Acho que você não vai conseguir uma resposta que deseja aqui. Não estou procurando respostas, fiz uma pergunta / pergunta sobre a irracionalidade dos resultados de tomar antidepressivos / ansiolíticos ... por que algumas pessoas trabalham e outras não ... Eu não acho tão fácil explicado com o efeito placebo. .... é muito mais complicado que isso ... Mas ok, você está certo .... Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icequeen Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Withdrawal from antidepressants causes lots of physical symptoms that no one had before taking them so the answer is no, it is not the original problem returning. I certainly didn’t have tics, involuntary jerking, muscle spasms, dizziness, nausea, shaking, shortness of breath and electric shocks in my brain before I was poisoned by this dangerous drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Exactly, it is clarified. What makes confusion is that there are people who do not have any problems with this type of medicines and others on the contrary have immense problems ... Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 Hi Onmyway and icequeen taking anxiolitic sporadically in SOS delays recovery ?? Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icequeen Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I have no idea if it delays recovery. I’ve taken a benzo a couple of times. It did’t do anything for me. Personally I am not sure recovery is possible for everyone. I haven’t seen much improvement myself in 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 How many years have you been taking medication icequeen???? Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 20, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Indio said: Hi Onmyway and icequeen taking anxiolitic sporadically in SOS delays recovery ?? Not possible to say as we don't know when each person would have recovered without the benzos. Personally I took Klonopin and Xanax in the worst of it (usually for sleep). Klonopin worsened nausea and increased feelings of hopelessness and brought on suicidal ideation at times. Xanax was more mildly depressive when before WD it was an upper for me. I'd only take them in the worst cases - i.e. haven't slept much in days or akathisia. I think WD tests the limits of what you can bear so if I can bear it without benzos, I'd do that. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indio Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Onmyway said: Não é possível dizer, pois não sabemos quando cada pessoa teria se recuperado sem os benzos. Pessoalmente, tomei Klonopin e Xanax na pior das hipóteses (geralmente para dormir). Klonopin piorou a náusea e aumentou a sensação de desesperança e provocou a ideação suicida às vezes. Xanax estava mais levemente depressivo quando antes da WD era superior para mim. Eu só os aceitava nos piores casos - ou seja, não dormia muito em dias ou acatisia. Eu acho que a WD testa os limites do que você pode suportar, se eu puder suportar sem benzos, eu faria isso. Ok, it was only on those days when anxiety is strong and it's hard to sleep .... Alprazolam 0,5 pela manhã e 0,25 ao deitar de maio de 2016 a outubro de 2018 (incluindo redução). Trazodona 100mg para ajudar a dormir de maio de 2018 a hoje 0mg. Comecei a reduzir trazodona em novembro de 2018. Quatro meses sem trazodona. Desculpe o meu Inglês é ruim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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