Hell: I am very scared - mostly about insomnia

[Hell]

Took 5mg last night. Didn't help much. Breathing problems before sleep and waking up fast even when I do fall asleep. I messed up by going CT not knowing how dangerous zyprexa (and maybe zoloft too) is.

 

I ruined my life and I am seriously considering ending it all soon.

[Shane88L]

Hi Hell,

 

I was sleeping before my Zyprexa horror med experience for a good 8-10 hours each night. After I took it and c/t'd from it, I slept for a miserable 3-4 hours every night. My sleep pattern changed also where I was up all night and could only sleep a few hours in the morning. I had so many other horrible symptoms that I felt like those few hours of sleep were not a too much of a problem. It took me a year before I got back sleeping longer. When you stabilize you can then begin to heal, and you will certainly heal.

[Rhiannon]

7 hours ago, Hell said:

Took 5mg last night. Didn't help much. Breathing problems before sleep and waking up fast even when I do fall asleep. I messed up by going CT not knowing how dangerous zyprexa (and maybe zoloft too) is.

 

I ruined my life and I am seriously considering ending it all soon.

You have not ruined your life. Those thoughts and the thoughts of ending it all are symptoms of withdrawal and very, very normal and common. I have seen so many people be exactly where you are. Over time everyone improves as long as they don't mess around with changing drug levels (up, down, or new drugs) and they take care of themselves.  You can and will improve too.

 

I would suggest not taking quite so much melatonin. It's a hormone, so there's a feedback effect, when there is a lot of it in your system your body cuts back how much it is making itself.  You can increase your natural melatonin production by avoiding blue light (screens, like phone or TV or computer) after dark, and any bright lights for a couple of hours before bedtime. Don't just suddenly quit taking it, but you might want to consider slowly reducing how much you are taking. Personally I prefer to use melatonin only as a rescue dose, or when I have been unable to avoid light before bedtime.

 

You are probably sleeping in bits and pieces, not nearly well enough to feel good of course, but enough to keep yourself alive. Our brains will do that.

 

Once you pick a dose of Zyprexa to reinstate on (2.5 or 5 are the doses you have mentioned) don't keep changing, that will just increase your suffering and prolong the time it takes to heal. Pick a dose and take the same dose at the same time every day.

 

Your English is excellent! Very impressive.

 

As Shane88 says:  You will certainly heal. 

 

[Altostrata]

On 11/28/2019 at 4:01 AM, Hell said:

One important thing I noticed is that whenever I am close to falling asleep (maybe when I'm asleep too) I inhale loudly which wakes me up. Maybe I stop breathing.

 

Is this the breathing problem you're talking about? When did this reaction start? That sounds like the startle reaction, very common when someone has withdrawal syndrome. Your nervous system is hyper-reacting to relaxation, it thinks you might be going unconscious, so it wakes you up.

 

 

This kind of paradoxical reaction also occurs when you're taking TOO MUCH of a drug to sleep. Did you increase to 5mg Zypreza? When did you do this?

 

How long were you taking 2.5mg this time around? Did it have any effect at all?

 

[Hell]

@Altostrata

I think it happened from the beginning but it got worse with time and I start noticing it more.

 

2.5mg had a little bit of the effect. I took it for 9 days. 8th day (1st december) was not bad I woke up alot of times but I fell asleep with less issues. Still, intensity of waking up and breathing thing was getting worse with time. 2nd december was horrible and I couldn't fall asleep because the breathing issue was getting worse so I took 5mg on 3rd and 4th. I still wake up a lot and breathing issue is there when I'm falling asleep but I managed to sleep a little bit. I upped my dose because I was scared it is getting worse and I needed some sleep, and because psychiatrist think I should go with 5mg and then tapper.

I know I know. We shouldn't listen to them but she respected my wishes to stop all medications and was supportive of tappering.

 

I really wanted to stay on 2.5mg but breathing issue and waking up is getting worse with time so I thought it will be better on 5mg. Maybe it won't but I don't know what else to try. I am getting tired of trying to sleep.

 

Btw like I said before my bite changed during withdrawal, could it be that my airways get blocked while falling asleep for this reason? Like in sleep apnea?

Or it could be what you are saying. I could try relaxing music.

 

And one more thing, what if insomnia is also the result of taking zoloft? Is it better that I just reinstated zyprexa because it is sedative? I took zoloft for only a month but some people get insomnia from one pill. 

 

Everyone else thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

[Altostrata]

Please explain more about the "breathing issue."

 

It looks like you've been on and cold turkeyed off a lot of drugs in the last 2 years. Insomnia could be withdrawal or adverse effect of any of them. Cold turkey is very bad for your nervous system.

[Hell]

@Altostrata

I experience weird breathing when I am falling asleep. It is either loud inhale or something in my stomach similar to spasm (maybe I stop and resume breathing?). Sometimes involuntary movements also. It stops me from falling asleep. And when I do fall asleep it doesn't last long.

 

Never happened before I quit zyprexa and zoloft. Insomnia also never happened when I CTed other meds. 

I was med free april and may before I started zyprexa and didn't have these issues. I didn't had any issues when I had to tapper from 5mg to 1.25mg  zyprexa once in the summer also because I had to wait for the prescription. But I was on smaller doses then. After that psych upped my dose 7.5mg-10mg. And in october I started taking zoloft.

 

My withdrawal started when I tappered to 2.5mg zyprexa and 0.6mg zoloft before CTing completely. And that is the first time in my life I experienced insomnia.

 

[getofflex]

Hello Hell.  I can very much empathize with you about the insomnia.  Before I found this website, I was following my doctor's advice on how to taper 10 mg of Lexapro after I had been on it 15 years.  He said to cut the pill in half (5 mg),  take that for a month, then cut the pill in one fourths (2.5 mg) for another month, etc.  That was WAAAAAYYY to fast of a taper for me.  The medical establishment is shamefully ignorant about how to get off of these powerful drugs.  I'm very grateful and blessed to have found this forum.  After that, I slowed my taper way, way down.  At any rate I had insomnia for months due to my fast taper.  It was very uncomfortable, but it did not kill me.  I have noticed that about 5-6 weeks after I've made a taper I sleep much better.  I"m finally getting to the point where I can sleep 7 or so hours a night at times, and I'm very thankful for that.   I'm feeling so much better now, than I did 8 months ago.  

 

I will be praying for you.  Don't give up.  It's worth it to get off these mind and soul numbing drugs.  I will never trust doctors or the medical establishment.  (I'm in the USA) 

[Hell]

Lack of sleep is already affecting me. I struggle to remember anything during a conversation and I feel brain dead. Is this really it? I have to live like this? And it will even get worse as time pass by?

 

@getofflex

Thank you but I doubt I will get better. Even 5mg is not doing much anymore. I messed up my brain going ct and that is it.

[Shane88L]

You will get better as time passes by. It is hard to believe given how you currently feel, as I have been there and understand just how hopeless it feels, but you will get better.

[Sunnyday]

@Hell I also understand it's difficult and it's hard finding hope, but I would say the majority of the people on here have been feeling similarly doubting things will ever get better, and the majority of the times it does still get better. Like getofflex said it's often very uncomfortable. We just need to find some ways to get around it or endure it until it gets better. I hope you can hang onto hope because then we can let time take its course and let us heal. It seems time is the biggest thing when healing from WD. So a good thing can be to find ways to make time pass, whatever that may be.

 

I hope you will get some moments of relaxation/piece of mind soon.

[Hell]

I sleep half an hour in total, hard to be optimistic about the future when after a month it is not getting better and reinstatement is not doing anything.

[Cocopuffz17]

11 minutes ago, Hell said:

I sleep half an hour in total, hard to be optimistic about the future when after a month it is not getting better and reinstatement is not doing anything.

I had really bad insomnia and used melatonin during the worst part of it... 5-10mg sublingual pills per night. I have not used it for multiple months and my sleep has returned to 7-8 hrs per night. It will get better! 

[mustafa]

Hi friend, iam sorry i couldn't read all  the comments here but i could notice that you have a problem with sleeping, iam very familiar with that problem( not now but before because now if you view my profile, you will find i have different symptomts), the symptomts i had in different times depernded on the drug i have but for your problem, i remeber that i was sleeping 15 minutes a day and when waking up, iam not tired and feel extra energy, when i go to bed, iam ok and will sleep but at the moment iam going ro fall asleep, it looks like something can't be connected and my heart is beating fast and feel horror and terrified.

This improved by time for me, just be patient as the healing requires 

One thing to add, reinstating was of no benefit that's true, but you will be better; every one of us have a problem, i think you have no anxiety nor stress and your big problem is rare sleep, this will get better as the other symptomts do ❤️.

[Meeka]

Hi Hell I have been following your post. I have been off Zoloft for about 3 months now and I have noticed that my WD symptoms were insomnia, never tired, fast heart rate and body zaps, 3 months later heart rate is back to normal, hardly any brain zaps now which is great.

But my insomnia is still there and I never feel tired, I can only fall asleep when I take 25mg of Quetiapine, if I dont take that then I cant sleep, and I can go days without sleep and still never feel tired.... Is this how it is for you? Im scared that I will never recover from this either, I just want to go to sleep normally again. 

[Hell]

Yes @Meeka I never feel tired either and even on 5mg zyprexa I wake up all the time. And a lot of times I can't fall asleep because just before falling asleep my breathing stops I think and I wake up. 

[getofflex]

On 12/9/2019 at 8:34 AM, Hell said:

Lack of sleep is already affecting me. I struggle to remember anything during a conversation and I feel brain dead. Is this really it? I have to live like this? And it will even get worse as time pass by?

 

@getofflex

Thank you but I doubt I will get better. Even 5mg is not doing much anymore. I messed up my brain going ct and that is it.

Hell, I was is your same situation a year ago, although I did not CT, and did a too fast taper.  It was very difficult for a while, but it very gradually got better..  Now, I am significantly better than I was last year. Don't despair.  It takes incredible patience to get through this withdrawal journey.  Your brain will eventually heal, but it takes. along time. 

[Shane88L]

I completely agree with getofflex above - You will be be able to sleep again, with the passing of more time. It truly is a struggle that takes great patience.

[getofflex]

On 12/9/2019 at 8:34 AM, Hell said:

Lack of sleep is already affecting me. I struggle to remember anything during a conversation and I feel brain dead. Is this really it? I have to live like this? And it will even get worse as time pass by?

 

@getofflex

Thank you but I doubt I will get better. Even 5mg is not doing much anymore. I messed up my brain going ct and that is it.

Hell try reading some of the recovery stories.  You will get better eventually.  It will take time and patience.  

[Hell]

My eyes look foggy and there are capillaries in them. Not to mention dark circles under eyes. My eyes looked so nice before all this. ;(

[Hell]

Now I started getting headaches also...

[getofflex]

Hello Hell.  I will tell you what really helped me with being scared about my WD symptoms.  I read the thread on acceptance.  There are some very helpful videos in there that helped me to be a little more peaceful and calm about my strange and bizarre symptoms of withdrawal.  I'll b3e praying for you. 

[PoetJester]

Hi Hell

 

I saw that you had looked at my page.  I am not doing very well, but wanted to say "hi"........I also have horrible triple bags/circles under my eyes now, when i used to have nice eyes.  For five years now, seeing myself in the mirror has made me want to cry.   I feel like Phantom of the Opera, whose face is disfigured and lives in a room away from people.   There are many similar Zyprexa stories on here.  Zelnick is one, who is still barely sleeping and having nightmares years later.   

 

When i first quit Zoloft and Zyprexa, i began going to parks on a nearby lake and cleaning up trash and feeding the animals.  It felt good to be outside when i felt so miserable inside from not sleeping since, my apartment began to feel more like a death trap than a place to live in.  Later, i started a part time job, where i bike out to golf courses on my mountain bike in the city i live in and pick all the lost shots in the weeds and woods (usually along railroad tracks, or else parts of golf courses adjacent to roads)....i bring the balls home and wash them and then sell them online on Craigslist and facebook and my apartment garage is a small golf ball shop now.   I don't have any real good advice- my face still looks horrible and i have been dealing with headaches for the past two years now.   Most days i am just trying to find a way to have a bowel movement,........ 

 

Poetjester (Derek)

[Hell]

Yeah I read your story Poet. I am seriously considering ending it all if my situation gets worse. I refuse to live lile this. This is not life. 

[sunnysideup69]

1 hour ago, Hell said:

Yeah I read your story Poet. I am seriously considering ending it all if my situation gets worse. I refuse to live lile this. This is not life. 

 

Please don't do that, Hell, I know it's not a good quality of life at the moment, but it will change. I f you see my signature, I have been struggling for about a year and a half AND I didn't think I was going to pick up again after crashing in May/June this year, but I have. I'm not totally stable yet, but over the November and December, things have gotten a lot better...it can take time.

[Erell]

"This is not life" : exactly! This is not life, this is only a part of your life, maybe the most difficult one, but still only a part.

It means better times Will come, times where you'll tell your old self 'thank you so much for going through this '.

 

❤

[Cocopuffz17]

Things will get better. I know it doesn’t seem like it at times. I felt the exact same way and powered through and feel way better! 

[Hell]

Update. Not a single improvement.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Hell,

Sorry to hear that.  Are you sleeping? 

Try and elaborate just a bit. 

Are you able to get on out once in awhile and socialize, get some fresh air, and into nature?  Or are you in a very urban environment?

 

Let me know on the sleep. 

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[mstimc]

Hell, the fact you come here to post and are looking for help means you haven't given up yet.  We've all been through or are experiencing our own unique hell.  My tortures were different but there were days I just wanted to stay locked in a room and hide for the rest of my life.  Keep trying and keep getting support!

 

[Hell]

@manymoretodays

 

I am not really feeling like socialising in my condition. I wish I could just die. My sleep is just series of waking ups and laying in the bed not being able to sleep. If I manage to fall asleep, I wake up soon after.

 

@mstimc

I am not hopeful I just feel the need to vent somewhere so I do it here.

 

[Shane88L]

I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling well...

Praying for a more speedy recovery for you!

[manymoretodays]

On 12/26/2019 at 9:20 AM, Hell said:

I am not really feeling like socialising in my condition. I wish I could just die. My sleep is just series of waking ups and laying in the bed not being able to sleep. If I manage to fall asleep, I wake up soon after.

 

Hey Hell ,

I don't know.....but if it were me, I might consider going down a bit on the Zyprexa.  Could you do something like 3.75 mg, right between the 2.5 mg and 5 mg for awhile?

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/3743-tips-for-tapering-off-zyprexa-olanzapine/

^ helps/tips are in there as far as how to reduce doses

My own experience with olanzapine was quite a few years ago, but ugly.........I think the drug itself can so deaden one's brain and sensorium, it does make it hard to stay positive.  It's only been a short time for you on the 5 mg now, it's worth a try.  Beats dying or constant suicidal ideations.  And your time with the drug has not been all that long overall.  Just a thought.

 

I understand.  The don't want to/just can't socialize.  Are you eating fair and getting some human interaction?  Alto may have given you this stuff already, in part or whole.......I'll give it to you again anyway, maybe you can find something useful that you didn't notice with the first go-round.

 

On 8/11/2017 at 11:31 PM, Altostrata said:

It's very important to work on improving your sleep. You should take melatonin at nightfall, to encourage production of your own melatonin, which starts at sundown. Take it at the same time each night, to train your sleep cycle. If you take it at odd times, your system gets confused. See What is the sleep cycle?

 

Since melatonin is triggered by darkeness, after nightfall you will want to keep the lights dim, even turn them off. Be careful to take just enough and not too much, see Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

No computer use after sundown, the light gives your sleep cycle the wrong signal -- it will keep you awake. (I know this is true from personal experience.) See TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

Make your bedroom as dark as possible with blackout shades and curtains. you may also want to wear a sleep mask to block out the light in the early morning -- that triggers your daytime activity hormone, cortisol. Also see Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing cortisol spikes

 

The above is explained in Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Also see White noise devices for sleep , this can help if you're sensitive to noise.

 

You have work to do, to take care of yourself. Please understand many people on this site have had to cope with strange symptoms and grueling sleeplessness on the road to recovery. It can be done.

 

Okay.  Wishing you sleep and healing.  You can do this.  Stick with the positive players now.  Best.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

p.s. were your holidays hellacious?  Mine were kind of hollow, but hey there are better years to come.  and........ I kind of love your name......😻

Edited December 29, 2019 by manymoretodays

[Altostrata]

Hell, you increased Zyprexa to 5mg on December 3, have you seen any benefit from the increase?

 

If not, I agree with @manymoretodays, you might have overdone it with the Zyprexa updose and might reduce it slightly. Common effects are apathy, anhedonia. Breathing problems are a more serious adverse effect. See https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/olanzapine-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20071350

 

Your sleeping pattern may indicate a paradoxical reaction to too much Zyprexa.

[Hell]

Even tho zyprexa makes me fall asleep a little bit, with waking ups, I don't think I will be able to heal and sleep med free. The reason is my breathing problem which I got from withdrawal. I stop breathing when falling asleep and wake up. I don't see it improving. My airways probably go completely shut. 

 

It is worse on lower doses of zyprexa and being off it. Other than sleep my breathing is fine btw.

 

 

[Hell]

Also, shouldn't I tapper slowly? I think there is some benefit to sleeping on 5mg.