Arti: paroxetine 17 years intolerably

[Shep]

1 hour ago, Arti said:

I increased at 23.12 diazepam From 0,14mg to 0,17mg

 

Arti, I just want to double-check something. Are you taking 17 mg or 0.17 mg diazepam? 

 

The reason I want to double-check is because 0.17 mg is an extremely low dose of this particular benzo. Many people are able to stop their taper at 0.25 mg. 

 

That being said, going from 0.14 mg to 0.17 mg is more than a 20% increase, which is more than we would recommend updosing. Diazepam has a half-life of up to 200 hours (8 days), so you won't even feel the full impact of this increase for several more days. If you're having problems from the increase, your symptoms are likely to get worse. 

 

So yes, I would decrease your dose back down to 0.14 mg. 

 

Has your diet changed over the holidays? Are you consuming more sugar or caffeine than usual? Has your schedule changed? Are you under more stress (as many people are during the holidays)? 

 

[Arti]

Hello shep i mean 0,17mg diazepam Alto suggest this maybe to substitute Dominal reduction

Long Time i wont do this 

But the last Weeks it is becoming worse and worse Not liveable nobody can Imagine

I think Dominal is kindling my system more and more because i did no other Chance

Domina half Life is 2 hours so everyday withdrawl 

I eat nearly no sogar

I drink no alklcohl no coffe only water avoid histamin

[Shep]

Thanks for this additional information, Arti.

 

What do you think about returning to 0.14 mg diazepam? 

[Arti]

Yes back to 0,14mg i feel terrible like acid running to my body 

I am 8 Month without paroxetin but as worst as it is now it was never before 

I think meanwhile i have adverse reaction to all drugs 

[Arti]

Shep may i ask a general question whenn do people get of diazepam typically at wich Dose

I feel so poisened maybe i am Not able to tollerate diazepam longer at all.

No recommendation about that only the question at wich Dose typical People Go off

[Shep]

Dr. Heather Ashton, author of The Ashton Manual (the German version is here - BENZODIAZEPINE: WIRKUNGSWEISE UND THERAPEUTISCHER ENTZUG) suggested 1 mg as a safe dose of Valium to stop. 

 

However, even though her work is widely credited in messaging a slow taper off benzos, many people find the 1 mg mark to be too high a dose to stop. Many people will go down to 0.5 mg or 0.25 mg before stopping.

 

For people dealing with a lot of symptoms, they may go lower than that. So it really depends. 

 

You're at a safe place to stop at 0.14 mg. But if you're still having a lot of symptoms, you may want to hold for a bit longer. 

[Arti]

Thanks shep for the Information !! 

I think it is Special for me I am several times Kindled and my System is very very distressed.

So Not compareable with Person wich System still Works 

But if i have no Benefit From it why  Not Stop valium.

I take it today at the old Dose watch what happens and think about it.

 

 

 

 

[Aurorax]

Frohe Weihnachten, @Arti! 🎄✨

 

I remember ”celebrating” Christmas 8 months off Paxil in 2009, just like you do now. I, too, was worse than ever. Finally started to see improvements in February 2010. I have a strong feeling that 2021 will be the year when you achieve your goal of a free mind and start seeing your first improvements.

Keep going and stay positive! You are amazing. ❤️

 

Aurorax

[Arti]

@Aurorax thanks i wish you the same thanks for the German words 

Merry Christmas !!

I can give it back you are amazing !!

And i hope you are right !

 

Greetings 

Arti 

[Altostrata]

Arti, as usual, I need to see those daily notes to make sense of this.

 

Have you changed your Dominal dose lately?

[Arti]

Hello Alto,

At the Moment difficult to me to make anything also this dayli Notes 

I feel poisened and Not in my body. 

I can say that in last weeks it becomes worse and worse. 

My sleep got more worse than it was not perceive if sleep or Not Fragmented with Dreams or thougts in the moring hours with fantasies hallucinations in the head i remember similar as i was a child and had high fever.

10 to 20 times to toilette. I cannot endure light or Sound. Akathisia also increased.

I didnt Chance the Dominal sice 4 Dezember From 25mg to 23,75mg

 

As it got worse and worse i decide to try increasing the diazepam at 23.12

Few hours later i Felt inner vibration. Then at 24.12 during the day everything  calmed a little was my feeling. I coninued with 0,17mg and half an hour or an hours later i got white Pixel in my vision head preasure and a little Burning skin. At 25.12 i took also 0,17mg and then i fellt sick chils head preasure Changing From Freezing and heat. Extreme anxiety and akathisia and this Pixels in my vision 

Also i fellt like acid running throu my venes.

 

This is all i can give in the Moment i will try these dayli Notes And give you.

I think i am Stressing my cns more and  more every das with the Doninal und diazepam 

I also detect that i have problems with food.

 

I have to Go off of all drugs this is my Last wish. I think about going off diazepam if it is doing such things at 0,17mg. It could also Not be good at 0,14mg

And if it is Not helpfull to Go off Dominal why keep it, one poison less.

But i dont know everything i do is false

 

 

 

[Longroadhome]

@Arti

i understand exactly how you feel you ask questions time and time again because your mind and body feel like they’re in chaos . You feel terrified of making a mistake and your thoughts  loop constantly. You blame the ups and downs of coming on and off medication coming off Paxil too fast still on other drugs with short half lives because you’re desperately seeking  a way out of the pain and torment but it all just makes you feel worse because of how quickly an answer brings relief and then puff!! It’s gone. so many of us know this feeling. My heart goes out to you. 
But listen you are still in early stages of wd from Paxil and you will be experiencing severe WD symptoms from this . you have done well to come off and stay off these last few months.
you are continuing your taper off Dominal and if part of your symptoms are due to this drug then the lower you get the more those symptoms should abate . 
  You are on a tiny amount of Diazepam and as these symptoms presented themselves before you started on this drug it’s probably unlikely it’s having an adverse reaction on you. And for the amount you’re  taking maybe consider tapering  off this one last. 
So many on this site including myself have felt like you do please read Carrie’s posts. She virtually CTd off four drugs and a year later felt worse than ever. However recently she has posted a very positive message that she is healing and getting on with her life.

Have you  read Sheps posts ? She also came off several drugs CT and fast taper . It’s an awesome read. She wasn’t afraid of her terrifying WD symptoms and coped by normalising them and working alongside severe WD for a number of years. 

you are being braver than you give yourself credit for. But msybe what you need to start doing now is accepting how you feel distracting yourself when WD becomes unbearable learning coping technics that work for you and telling yourself that you will heal . Because you will. 
Longroadhome 

[Arti]

@Longroadhome thanks for your Message and try to build me up !!

 

Altostrata at the Moment i am to sick to write Daily Notes thanks for beeing patience und sorry

Hope i can return Soon 

 

[Arti]

Hello 

Sorry i know nobody can help. I cannot give dayli Notes I am to Confused to write it the German Grammatik correction makes me crazy.

Al is becoming worse i think sleep is gone completely. I have Chemical anxiety 24h coming From the stomach and chest i cannot endure it is a Form of akathisia i feel like a Burning Rocket 

In mind and body. The nights are awfull  as i told  i feel no sleep it feels like i am 24h awake 

The brain if i closed eyes do terrible things ist traumatic. I feel like acid running Trough my venes 

During the  night especually in the Morning, also i feel like i am cooked the things in the head are unbelievable.  During the day i can only sit at the kitchen table und endure the anxiety and madness in the head. I am very light and Sound sensitive. And the knowing that i never sleep oder cannot perceive sleep is traumatic for me. Think the ability completely gone.

I took diazepam 0,14mg still at5pm sometimes maybe calm a little sometimes the opposite i recognized after i took it my Handy becomes Red. 

I rdduced Dominal gradually Now i am at 21,25mg 8:30pm but the nights becoming worse Not better

After i took it. I have strange feeling in my head two times i heared a noises in my head like a breakig cookie or if brain brake. Also strange thougts increase. It makes me sleepy for 15 Minutes und then i am hyperawake. Going to Bad and the real hell Beginns.

20  to  30 times toillet Not knowing where  i am if Dreams or thougts and so on.

 

As i told in the last Post i tried to increase diazepam to 0,17mg but i think i had adverse reaction white Pixels. Extreme Panic and heat. That i thougt i am dieing imediatelly. Was pulling my clothes From the body seconds later i was Frezzing. So i think cannot increse still at 0,14mg

 

Sorry for all for my mistakes i will survive if i can, Noting Else. But without sleep

I fell that i am dieing

[Longroadhome]

Arti you need to practice coping skills and normalising how you feel. It is obvious from your posts that you are in a constant state of panic and this will only make your symptoms much worse. And your sleep.

you are in early days WD and symptoms will be intense but it’s how you cope that’s key to managing WD. 
maybe a good place to start would be with bedtime routine as this seems to cause you the most stress. 
a long bath relaxing on the bed listening to soothing music. Calming the body with relaxation tapes. A warm drink of milk . Maybe a book if you can read ( sometimes hard in WD I know). 
and learning not to worry if sleep doesn’t come . It will eventually. Maybe not that night or the night after but eventually it will. 
you probably sleep more than you think you do at the moment. You may be surprised. 
rest is a good alternative and can be done through meditation. 
you never mention how you are helping yourself ? 
what coping skills are you actively doing to help ? 

 

 

[Arti]

Hello @Longroadhome thanks for your Message and words!

Ich think it is Not understandable for somebody who is Not in this Situation. 

Yes i have the will to fight and use coping Skills but it is Not possible i cannot do some coping Skills 

The permanent Panic and anxiety coming From the body it is Chemical Not From the mind 

Ist difficult to breathe i sit at the table and endure it is like the devil is inside of me no Peace no Rest possible. I even cannot sit komfortable on the Coach because a inner anxiety coming up if my head goes in an little Bit horizontal Position. Nobody have this. A bath is Not possible because of the heat and i cannot sit in this Relaxing Position. Even shower is only possible once a week and after that all got worse. Reading a book no chance. Listen to Musik makes me Crazy even Relax music. If a Bird singjng i got anxiety, tv Not possible. 

I Go exactly at the same Time every day to Bed but i cannot Relax when i closed eyes pictures Dialogs, hallucinations coming up. I got more anxiety and i have to Go the toilette this is no joke 20 to 40 times per night. I am Not able to empty the bladder. When i detect that i have another Time going to toilette i recognize no wakeup no sleep So it feels since many Month that i am fully awake 24 hours every day so sleep did Not come i wait till manny Month or a year. In the mornig hours i have problems to breathe. A felling like acid running in my body, I fell like my body is cooking. Then i lost connections to my body i close eyes and i cannot say if i lay at the right side or left side or back or what ever when i turn i recognize where i am. So only laying and Rest is Not possible 

Through the day i am full of Adrenalin chortisol or whatever tremor anxiety alerted agitated akathisia so Not possible to do any coping Skills i Would do but i cant.

Die only Thing what i can do rarely is die 478 breathing and this also gives anxiety 

 

So i dont know if anybody understand me right and what i have to endure never read this before 

In other stories is it withdrawl kindling Bad reaction or whatever.

Yes i will fight survive do coping Skills. But i am at the end of my Energy. And everything i do makes it more worse 

 

Thanks!

[Arti]

I have a simple question only one at this time 

 

Paroxetin is off for 9 month so no chance to reinstate

And i have to Life with daily withdrawl Horror if it ever ends or Not 

 

I have to taper Dominal but it take Time and its difficult 

Diazepam and dominal dont fits together the drug checker Shows this 

Doesnt matter when diazepam Dose were taken because of long hlt anyway it inerferers with Dominal.

 

I cannot say if diazepam do helpfull things or Not maybe or maybe Not 

I can say that a increase of diazepam causes strange extreme reactions so my thought is 0,14mg also dont do helpfull things 

 

So the question is if it take Time to tapper off the Dominal and it fits Not with diazepam.

Is it Not the easier way to stop diazepam first to bring one Dämon out of this nightmare??

This is my only question thanks in advance! 

 

[Aurorax]

I just wanted to say that the horror you are describing sounds very familiar to me. I, too, was beyond listening to music or doing relaxing techniques for a long time. The sensory sensitivities, cognitive difficulties, and akathisia made it very difficult. It's ok. Keep trying, but don't push yourself too hard.

 

You are not alone in being this ill, but not everyone is writing on forums like this. Some people are too ill to write at all. They may be too weak or too confused.

   You are able to take a step outside yourself and describe your symptoms instead of being consumed by them. That's very good. See if you can take this one step further. See if you can disconnect yourself even more from your suffering and just observe. Don't try to make the anxiety go away, don't try to calm yourself down, don't try to make yourself fall asleep. Just observe. Let it be, it's ok. Allow your body to do what is needed, trust that your body can handle this.

 

Regarding diazepam: I read Shep's previous answers, and she wrote that it's safe to stop at 0,14 mg. It's a very low dose. Maybe it's worth trying if you believe you have an adverse reaction.

 

The strange noises in your head sound like brain zaps to me. Very common wd-symptom, so no need to worry.

 

Sending you hugs ❤️

 

Aurorax

[Arti]

Thanks @Aurorax you are a good Soul!!  without the perceive of sleep

Brain cannot Work it is dangerous but cannot do anything against 

Keep praying and hope.

To Hold and believe is such an efford. 

I know if maybe healing is possible it is slow very slow 

But i know also as long as i take Dominal or diazepam it is Not possible at all to heal

I want to be free thats all i want thanks !!

[Longroadhome]

@Arti

i am sorry if I did offend you it was not my intention I misunderstood the level of your suffering and thought you were overcome with panic and wanted to help.

@Aurorax is right just observe and let it be. And as she says you are able to step outside of yourself and describe your symptoms which shows you are able to detach and view from the outside in . 
I have learnt something. 
 

I really “get” what you say about being unable to heal while still on meds as this is how I feel . That the healing really starts once we have tapered off all and the body finds its own way back to homeostasis. 
 

  

 

[Arti]

@Longroadhomedont worry you didnt offend me 

How could you Imagine how i am with these few sentences that we write 

The same for me I have maybe a picture of you in my mind but i cannot Imagine how are you doing 

So i am thankfull anyway for every encouragement.  And for your words !!

So i hope you never make the same mistakes like me. Slow and steady is the answer 

I Wish for both of us a free life someday !!! 

 

[Longroadhome]

1 hour ago, Arti said:

@Longroadhomedont worry you didnt offend me 

How could you Imagine how i am with these few sentences that we write 

The same for me I have maybe a picture of you in my mind but i cannot Imagine how are you doing 

So i am thankfull anyway for every encouragement.  And for your words !!

So i hope you never make the same mistakes like me. Slow and steady is the answer 

I Wish for both of us a free life someday !!! 

 

Thank you from my heart 

 

[Biloelagirl89]

On 12/3/2020 at 5:56 PM, Arti said:

Hello all,

 

Let me write down my thougts

I dont expect any advice or recomendations i am still at 25mg Dominal and 0,14mg diazepam.

I struggle a Lot survive Minute by Minute. Things have become more strange and changed

Not to better. 

 

My worst Symptome is the abilkty to sleep or perceive sleep. The nights are war and Fighting Not sleeping. It is a feeling that the brain never Switch off 24hours alerted. The morning Time beginning 3am ist the most awfull Thing that a human individuell can endure it is like the brain lost the ability to detect the states of Dream, think, sleep move recognize what happend sometimes also in the evening

It is like the brain for microseconds shutt down eyes still open Dream coming in the mind and then Switch on again  and i dont know what happend.

But yes i explained it several times so cold coffe i read this Phänomen never before on no other Person 

It changes also and become more strange day by day.

 

The days are endure frome Minute to Minute. Sure there are better hours then i could Go to the Supermarkt or have a walk or small work but only for short Time then the brain have no more Space left to coordinate. Tv most Time Not possible. Relax Not possible anxiety 24h and the fear of felling in this half wake Dreams state. So sitting at the table most Time the only Thing to endure. Cooking often Works so supply myself with food most Time is ok. But all feel strange i lost my complete personality all Interest i had are Gone. I feel like in a movie with Bad quality. Even if i close the eyes the pictures are Dark and unclear.  When a car passes or a Bird cry it feel different than before and it make more anxiety.

I think this is Dp/DR. I cannot feel tiredness or sleepy. Sometimes a short Moment maybe a Minute or so i feel like ahh Would a nap be nice but i know it is Not a real feeling the true is Brain cannot calm  or Relax. Akathisa very often cannot Hold the feet still i Think it become a little less but i think the recent is that i am so exhaust because  of the lack of sleep that body is often Not able to get in akhathisia.

 

So what can i expect From the Future. 

I read a Lot in die Forum if this is good or Not i so t know. There are many people were the normal sleep cycle never return stan or compsports and many more. So i am really rellay scarry 

Yes this is pesimistic but it happend for they. If i looking over die past two years it was pure hell 

But few Month or a year earlier it was not half as Bad as it is since my stupid second fast tapper 

Everything i did was Fals. But i wont Continue blame myself for this failures i did, my only aim was to get better. I could not know and Imagine at that Time that everything got worse then ever.

 

So what can i do this is only a question  to myself keep Fighting und Continue with the knowlege it could be possible that it become never ever better. 

I meanwhile can accept that i never would never ever Drink a coffe or a beer, Go to vacation, have Sex, eat what i want etc. This are things that i pass in my head and yes Life without that is possible.

 

But with no sleep, this awful Thing in the morning this strange conditions in my brain, that i cant be there for my Family, my wife, my Brothers childs, my House, my Animals, because al my Rest Energy i have is for endure, breathing, Go to toilette, akathisia, anxiety, Hearbeat und keep the body of Minimum work. 

This i dont know maybe it Works for another year or Month or i dont know but Not for a long Time.

And i think sometimes die body und brain got problems with no chance to Relax and Change Akkus

 

Yes i read the succes stories, healing is possible i think Not complete healing but up to a certain point. Depending how much damage was done. And in my case a big damage is done. 

 

So is it worth to Continue  to fight to Hold on Minute by Minute with the knowlege it could be become better but it could be also be permanet pain and hell. I dont know. Humans can endure a lot up to a point were everybody got broken. 

 

 

 

 

I feel the exact same way

[Longroadhome]

6 hours ago, Biloelagirl89 said:

I feel the exact same way

Arti have you checked out Baylissa Frederick website. 
Its packed full of encouraging WD info

it sounds like you are getting small windows is this right ? 

[Arti]

@Longroadhome thanks for the hint yes i checked baylissas Homepage a few Month ago 

Maybe i can again have a look on it.

The last two days were a little bit milder dont know If i allow me to Call small Window 

I know it will hit back again with full Force.

All i can do is Continue tapper Dominal and hope.

Thanks!!

I ve Seen you also reduced in January so i hope you are ok !! 

 

[Longroadhome]

2 hours ago, Arti said:

@Longroadhome thanks for the hint yes i checked baylissas Homepage a few Month ago 

Maybe i can again have a look on it.

The last two days were a little bit milder dont know If i allow me to Call small Window 

I know it will hit back again with full Force.

All i can do is Continue tapper Dominal and hope.

Thanks!!

I ve Seen you also reduced in January so i hope you are ok !! 

 

Hi Arti 

Yes you’ve had a window that’s awesome !! And the fact it’s been over two days Is even better. 
Are you recording  your symptoms daily may have asked you before but it will be good for you to plot progress now if you’re not already. 
 

im doing ok just tapered by another 10% this month. 

[Goosie]

So glad @Arti you had a small window!!!! Sending love ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[Arti]

@Altostrata Sorry for Tagging you i know you are very buysi i want to give a Update in my Situation i Continued gradually tappering of Dominal as i reached 15mg i thougt i am Not able to take it anymore. I got Interdose withdrawl every day dyskinese and dystonie sympthom. 

So i decided to stopp Dominal at 15mg i had the feeling it i is klling me. Ever evening i Took it

I got little Bit sleepy for 20 Minutes und then full awake i read this is a typical Paradox reaction.

So i decided to do this maybe again stupid. It was at the 18th feb

 

Since that sleep is almost gone completely  but was not much better bevor quiting

The feeling changed again  and its difficult to explain

When i Go Go Bed i lay down and maybe drifte to sleep but cannot feel this then after maybe 15 Minutes conscious come back i got nervous Maybe a Dream was before and i have to Go to toilette this happens several times if i have luck i watch the clock an hours later Go toilette und back for another hour. But The bizzare Thing is i cannot feel drift into sleep or wake up. I Dream yes but at the same Time i can feel laying in my Bad. In the morning hours i feel that i dont sleep but If i close the eyes Dreams coming pictures Dialogs very fast and Changing at it feels so confusing. 

So in General i cannot feel sleep or what it is.

 

All it is very difficult to describe and i hope you are Not angry with me you was right that Dominal doesnt help and had to gone but in a tapper way Now i quit it ct and i did this because i thougt i cannot endure this anymore and i was scarry about the dyskinese.

 

So Alto diazepam is still left i took it at 0,14mg dont know if this help or Not and i will stay on this for a while longer than quit,

But about sleep my biggest fear is that the Dominal or the Kombination of all destroyed complete the sleep Architecture. It is Not only the case of no sleep because of this strange states of conscious i try to describe. Yes i do all sleep Hygiene and this stuff but it is a different Situation

I cannot feel the sleep.

Is this kind of sleep disorder restorable the feeling of Walking up or drift i to sleep. I Think my Situation is unusual 

Thank for your work!! Thanks all writing  in this Thread for the warm words !! 

 

[Goosie]

@Arti I am in the same boat.    I am in hospital.   My family put me here.   I have been out in gaba pen tin.  Barely holding on.   You are so brave.    You have survived for months and you will make feel better.   

[Aurorax]

How are you doing now, @Arti?

Did the symptoms of dyskinesia and dystonia go away after stopping Dominal? Any difference in your other symptoms? Are you doing better or worse overall?

 

Aurorax

[Arti]

@Aurorax it is all difficult to say but in fact it changed very much since stopping Dominal 

 

I think this diskynksia and dystonie settle down Now also tremor and the madness in the head also

I am more able to calm down sometimes and sit quiet 

 

sometimes my head is shaking A little and also i have extreme restless legs in the evening and reslessness in the body 

 

The feeling of sleep changed also i dont know if to better or worse 

But it is different maybe every week. Sometimes i feels a little like sleep sometimes no feeling and i can absolutelly Not say how long or in General if i sleept 

 

But The mornings are also a little different this extreme anxiety in the morning is still there but my feeling is also it is less.

 

Thanks Aurorax for asking!!

 i could write much more but it is so difficult to explain I even cannot describe this strange things to my wife because it is so bizarre 

 

One Thing is for sure i feel more free without the must to throw this poison every day inside me 

It is a very sublime feeling 

 

Greetings Arti 

[Longroadhome]

@Arti

that all sounds really positive !!

are you off all medication now ? 

[Arti]

Still on diazepam 

[Aurorax]

On 3/13/2021 at 6:59 AM, Arti said:

One Thing is for sure i feel more free without the must to throw this poison every day inside me 

It is a very sublime feeling 

 

Thank you so much for this update, @Arti ❤️ It sounds like you are doing a lot better. Your writing seems so calm and clear all of a sudden. You obviously did the right thing when you trusted your gut feeling. (I have to admit I felt relief when you wrote that you had stopped taking it even though I know ct is very risky). I wouldn’t be surprised if you will see more improvements in the following weeks!

 

6 hours ago, Arti said:

Still on diazepam 

 

Congratulations on being only 0,17 mg diazepam away from your drug-free life. I’m so happy for you! 😀

 

Aurorax

[Longroadhome]

Well done Arti !! 

I agree with Aurorax your writing does seem much calmer. 
so glad you are starting to feel a little calmer. 
you have been so brave waiting it out. 

 

[Arti]

Thanks @Aurorax

Thanks @Longroadhome

For your Message !! i hope I See more improvements in the Future it is still a fight every day 

But i also think stopping Dominal was the right decision. I hope this drug did Not permanent damage because it is an old neuroleptica From dem 1960's. 

I hope is was not destroying my sleep architecture. Still may main issues 

But as i told it feels different every Week.

Cannot do more than hope. And finish diazepam at the right Time.

 

Hope you both are doing fine!!!

Thanks again !!