Arti: paroxetine 17 years intolerably

[Arti]

@Altostrata thanks !

But you helped me with your answeres and this webside you cannot do more i know.

If it is ok and i have questions i will ask you again. 

 

Thanks !!

[Arti]

@Altostrata Hello Altostrata Sorry for disturbing again.

Now i am 8 Weeks off paroxetine, i think you can imagine that my condition is dying 

the worst is sleep I've had problems since the first incorrect reduction, but now it's completely different and even worse

Maybe i can explain its Not easy 

Go to bed at 10:30pm close my eyes but I am very nervous because I know that it will be bad. I go to the toilet a few more times but do not know whether I slept in between, I kept thinking in between that I can not remember shortly afterwards, it is as if I was perhaps on the threshold of falling asleep then coming back to me and I can’t remember what I was thinking.

sometimes it takes a couple of hours until 4 a.m. I don't know if I have slept or not.

Then in the morning I try to close my eyes because I'm broken Then it happens again I think of something and then I forget about what I get scared of it and then it starts all over again until I get upset and broken up

 

I had this also for the last Month if i tappered  and also before when i was back on 10mg paroxetine but Not no itense 

I read about hypnagotic hallucinations but i think ist different 

Its a really poor sleep at the Limit of sleep.

Did you hear something like this From other members. Normally i read a Lot about insomnia but yes sleep  or Not.

I am so afraid that it will never get better and I will go crazy for lack of relaxation.

I still take the Dominal 45mg at 10pm dont know if this have something  to do with that 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

See

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

On 5/18/2020 at 1:21 PM, Altostrata said:

Arti, I don't know the rules in Germany. I cannot follow your symptom pattern, I can't help you. I have no suggestions other than to hang in there for months and hope it goes away or ask a doctor for a low-dose benzodiazepine prescription, preferably clonazepam or diazepam.

 

[Arti]

@@Altostrata sorry i will contact you again i know you can not help me and still i would like to ask 13 weeks without paroxetine I know the rules of sleep and try to  to use them as well as possible, unfortunately I still cannot sleep or I do not know whether I sleep or not it is getting worse it is only a mash of a few hours with a lot of getting up in the toilet and in between a porridge I do not notice whether I am sleeping or not thinking dreaming no idea. does it all come from withdrawal or can it also be a side effect of the dominal that I take at 10 o'clock in the evening. from 3:30 a.m. it is hell I am in different levels of consciousness often do not know where I am as I am lying as if detached from my body terrible thoughts leaving and then the fear from that point on, the fear increases immeasurably and lasts all day with the same intensity. I don't drink alcohol, I do not smoke, nearly no sugar and histamine. Is there anything else I can do? It can't just be cortisol. I'm in full alarm and Albert the whole day. sorry altosteata i built **** and try to survive that's all.

Meanwhile im Not sure if i am also depency of diazepam i took it Not permanent but for Weeks at different Time 5mg also Not good for cns 

 

[Altostrata]

Arti, paroxetine is a very difficult drug to go off. Many people experience more than 13 weeks of withdrawal syndrome. When did you go off? Please update your signature.

 

Has your sleep improved in the last few months?

 

I don't know anything about Dominal. Have you changed your dosage recently?

[Arti]

@Altostrata thank you for reporting I'm on zero on April 12th and then tried 3 times again reinstate and stopped each time because I thought a bad reaction. my sleep has gotten much worse since then. he has been bad since the first paroxetine discontinuation it started to be swallowed in January 2019. But the art has changed a lot since then. At the beginning I just couldn't sleep but I noticed whether I was sleeping or not. since last year august or so it is a porridge i think very light superficial sleep i don't notice any wake point and i am very confused the whole thing has gotten worse since i went back to zero paroxetine.

 

i'm afraid of the nights because i don't know what's going on it doesn't feel like sleep, the last time I had to reduce the dominal from 45mg to 40mg on 8.06 since I was in a clinic, there i often took valium which didn't really help either against the strong fear and akathisia maybe. i think i'm dependent on the stuff therefore i try

a stabilizing dose now of 0.16mg in the morning and evening and hope to be able to eliminate it in a few weeks it does not help.

 

I am in high alert alarm Modus the whole day if i want Relax sit down or make a little komfortable something inside me get anxiety starting in the middle of the stomach. and if have to move 

Ist Not only akhathisie it is very difficult to describe it is as if something in me was afraid of losing control. I have this since 1,5 years now stronger.

 

I know you cannot really help me but maybe some answeres if this is all withdrawl i fell so different From the other Storys.  

Because of the sleep most People sleep or Not they describe no porridge , this inner lose controll feeling and the anxiety 24 hours Not only spikes 

 

[Erell]

7 hours ago, Arti said:

I know you cannot really help me but maybe some answeres if this is all withdrawl i fell so different From the other Storys.  

Because of the sleep most People sleep or Not they describe no porridge , this inner lose controll feeling and the anxiety 24 hours Not only spikes 

 

 

Hello Arti, 

 

I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

Your symptoms sounds very common : a lot of people here report sleep issues / anxiety 24/7.

It sounds like you're in acute Wd from Paxil.

It will get better, however no one can give you timeframe.

 

Have you take a look to our Success Stories ?

They can be great conmfort and helps us to remind that the outcome is recovery :

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forum/28-success-stories-recovery-from-withdrawal/

 

Hang on ❤️

 

 

 

[Arti]

hello erell

Thank you for your message and encouragement, 2-3 hours of light sleep and the rest just porridge tonight, it feels like it's getting worse I am afraid that I would die die

to the non-existent sleep or that my brain will never be able to recover because of no sleep. I also have hallucinations ans strange states of mind during the day and at night, especially at night when my eyes are closed, my head does terrible things, I don't know where I am and what's going on no clear thoughts are possible as detached from the body Are there any reports of this and can it get better? I haven't read it anywhere.

I am such an Idiot i did 2 Time cold Turkey within 1,5 years and between that no stability I blame myself and I can't forgive myself

[Cocopuffz17]

Hey, you are not an idiot. Change that self talk. You can get through this and you will. Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed! 

[Arti]

Hallo cocopuffz,

Also thanks for your words, execuse but I am really at the end, 1,5 year with Bad and less sleep and now with this terrible terrible states of consciousness and hallucinations No Chance to Relax at all no sleep Has broken me

I Ruined every Thing my whole life with my failures und if have still two drugs that i take so its hopeless

Without sleep i cannot stand this, my head is Not longer mine, teribble things happend Inside 

I want  Rest sleep Relax that is every Thing i want nothing Else 

 

 

 

 

 

[mstimc]

10 hours ago, Arti said:

I am such an Idiot i did 2 Time cold Turkey within 1,5 years and between that no stability I blame myself and I can't forgive myself

 

7 hours ago, Arti said:

Hallo cocopuffz,

Also thanks for your words, execuse but I am really at the end, 1,5 year with Bad and less sleep and now with this terrible terrible states of consciousness and hallucinations No Chance to Relax at all no sleep Has broken me

I Ruined every Thing my whole life with my failures und if have still two drugs that i take so its hopeless

Without sleep i cannot stand this, my head is Not longer mine, teribble things happend Inside 

I want  Rest sleep Relax that is every Thing i want nothing Else 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arti

 

I don't know if you're religious and it really doesn't matter, but one of the Greek root words for Satan is "the Accuser".  In the same way, your own mind can become "the Accuser",  piling on non-stop negative thoughts and self-accusation out of proportion to reality.    You took the advice of your doctor, trusting him or her to do the right thing.  What would you tell a friend in the same situation?  You'd probably tell him to leave the past behind, stop blaming yourself, and decide what your future will be.  You can recover if you give yourself the chance.

 

Also, when it comes to sleep, it sounds as if you're trying too hard and increasing your sleep-related anxiety by "trying" to relax and sleep.  Don't fight it--it just makes it worse.  Have you tried to adopt a pre-sleep calming routine that prepares you for rest?  I found that very effective. 

[Arti]

Hallo mstimc, 

 

If i can watch tv in the evenning i use a blue light Filter glasess. I Drink some Milk with honey or a sleep tea, 

Normally in die evening i am a little Bit calmer but yes i have fear of every Night 

It is Not only the fear of no sleep it is this felling, the sleep feels so different like  before,

And the mornig this is the terriblest Thing that i ever have to endure. 

Hypnagoge hallucinations, short thougt a second later cannot remember,  Not knowing where i am, feeling that i am outside of the body etc.

Meanwhile i also have no emotional felling during the day nothing. Things wich normally calm me down a little Bit like a rain shower oder watching animals Triggers nothing like i am dead inside.

 

I read From People who has things like this they have it for many years or forever this makes me Crazy.

Because i could have prevent it 

yes you are right it doesn't bring anything to myself but what I can't forgive myself I knew it read a lot and I still made the mistake of stopping a second time too quickly because I thought I couldn't tolerate paroxetine anymore. But fact was last year I reinstate, too too much tapper down and stay would be the right I didn't recognize it and the result is hell, sorry

[mstimc]

Arti, you should take Erell's advice and read through some of the success stories  I think you'll find there have been many people who have suffered from many of the same symptoms but were able to recover. 

[Arti]

Thanks mstimc i did this and i will do it again. It is so difficult for me to believe and hope because this Storys Sounds for me so Different than my story.

And my many mistakes and several kindling. Thanks all for encouragement !

 

[Arti]

sorry once again I'm full of fear it gets worse at night or rather in the morning come to me at 3:30 a.m. or jm 4:00 a.m. and then it starts terrible not definable states of consciousness thought flashes very real then sometimes I think part of the brain sleeps very briefly and then I start to shout, I have no connection to my arms and legs and I don't know where they are, a felling if i am out of my body. Unbelievable fear rises I'm so broken that I stay lying down but after 2 hoursi get up confused cannot 

endure longer. Sorry I'm annoying I know but someone knows such bizarre state? I want to go back to the before second too quickly get off it was terribly bad too but now it's hell I'm so scared that I have to endure this sorry once again 

Does somebody think reinstate another Time after Month could help.

Sorry again 

[Altostrata]

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

More about how light stimulation affects our body clocks

 

Re-read this topic from the beginning for our discussions about reinstatement.

[Arti]

@Altostrata 

[Arti]

@Altostrata thanks i read this yes several times 

I Go allways at the same Time to bed 10pm. Last eating latest 7pm. Bedroom is Dark by curtain. I also use a sleeping mask and ear pads. 4 am i take Magnesium Nitrat 300mg and little Bit honey because of the blood sogar . During the day i use sunglasses. 

The mornig effect changes in the last Weeks since stupid second fast tapper oft. Die whole last year and spring this year i had brutal anxiety in the mornig and terrible thougts.

But a little Bit later maybe 5 or 7 am. I think at that Time the paroxetin Dose was To high i thougt i cannot tollerant it anymore that was the recent for fast tapper.

The last Weeks maybe 6 or 8 it is Changing and got more worse every day. In the mornig also sometimes in die evening i think i have hypnagogue hallucinations other .terrible things happen in my head. 

And also during the day i have hallucinations. And very strange state of conscisoussnes. Difficult to explain  i try to stand this second ja second. But i think From day to day i got more weak. I am afraid to clock eyes and losging my mind every second of the day it is very exhausting.

 

I would like to apollogize that i made this second fast tapper failure. I was reading so much und anyway i made the mistake.sorry!!

I would really turm die wheel back a des Month it was terrible But now it is really Not Managable the whole day und night to survive i Fighting every second. 

 

Because i think meanwhile of dependece of diazepam by on off using i take 0,14mg 7am and the same 9pm maybe to get here stabilisation it is a nightmare 

 

[Altostrata]

How long have you been using diazepam? You'll need to keep notes about when you take it and how much. If you take it too often, you may experience interdose withdrawal from it.

 

We very carefully explain to people why they should taper slowly. We know we cannot fix it if you go too fast. We still cannot fix it. You will have to let your nervous system settle down.

[Arti]

@Altostrata Sorry for request what do you mean by Interdose withdrawl From diazepam. I was using it for maybe 3 Weeks but  Not every day before that i used tavor for also for a few Weeks Not konstant , then few days Noting und got strange things in the Muscles and more nervous then i decide to took a small Dose every day to got more konstant as i told 0,14mg 7am und 0,14mg 9pm since 2 weeks 

Dont know if this is good or Not. It help Not and it is another Problem.

 

Do you mean settle down the nervous System by keep at it is. and hang in no reinstate? Because more Stress for the nervous System.

I am stupid i thougt i can endure this. The body sympthoms i can endure at the Moment but the head Symptoms this hallucinations in the bed are the awful Thing i ever experienced yes I am to blame myself but I am afraid that it will never go away again I can endure a lot but not this hypnagogue hallucinations.

Could also the diazepam be a recent for this hallucinations increase.

 

Tonight i think sleep From 12pm to  3pm Go to the toillet und take Magnesium die Go back to the Bad no idea if i was sleeping again or Not porridge in the head 

Sometimes i think different areas in the brain going to sleep but mind is still wakeing. Terrible Sorry 

 

How can i Continue is there any small Thing i can rescue ?

What should i do with the diazepam stay to stabilize or tapper oft? 

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata Sorry for request what do you mean by Interdose withdrawl From diazepam. I was using it for maybe 3 Weeks but  Not every day before that i used tavor for also for a few Weeks Not konstant , then few days Noting und got strange things in the Muscles and more nervous then i decide to took a small Dose every day to got more konstant as i told 0,14mg 7am und 0,14mg 9pm since 2 weeks 

Dont know if this is good or Not. It help Not and it is another Problem.

 

Do you mean settle down the nervous System by keep at it is. and hang in no reinstate? Because more Stress for the nervous System.

I am stupid i thougt i can endure this. The body sympthoms i can endure at the Moment but the head Symptoms this hallucinations in the bed are the awful Thing i ever experienced yes I am to blame myself but I am afraid that it will never go away again I can endure a lot but not this hypnagogue hallucinations.

Could also the diazepam be a recent for this hallucinations increase.

 

Tonight i think sleep From 12pm to  3pm Go to the toillet und take Magnesium die Go back to the Bad no idea if i was sleeping again or Not porridge in the head 

Sometimes i think different areas in the brain going to sleep but mind is still wakeing. Terrible Sorry 

 

How can i Continue is there any small Thing i can rescue ?

What should i do with the diazepam stay to stabilize or tapper oft? 

This hypnagoge hallucinations coming since maybe 6 weeks i read something in die Forum and i am schocked can this ever Go away 

 

[Altostrata]

Please list every dose of diazepam you've taken, by day, with the dosage. Thanks.

 

"hypnagoge hallucinations" are a mild symptom, they will go away.

[Arti]

@Altostrata 

 

20. Juli

9pm 0,14mg diazepam 

10pm 40mg Dominal Go to bed Not able to sleep

12 pm think Fall in poor sleep

3 am woke up toilett back to bed Not able to sleep, Magnesium,  hypnagogue hallucinations terrible thougts, amnesia, anxiety increase

6 am stand up, confused, anxiety increase, Not tired, physically exhaused, read in the Tablett, DP, DR etc. 

7 am 0,14 mg diazepam, anxiety increase, akathisia 

7:30 am breakfast. Anxiety 

8am - 10 am try to endure in the kitchen,  Attack difficult to explain hallucinations, anxiety increase another Time, hit against the wall, screaming, wallowing on  the floor akathisia. Losig the mind 

10 am try to supplying the animals, walk a little Bit, anxiety, etc.

11 am endure in die Garage sit, stand, walk Around, incredible anxiety, thinking losing  the mind, etc.

12 am eat something

12: 30 pm endure in the Garage, sit, stand, walk Around, incredible anxiety, thinking losing the mind, etc.

14 pm try to do a little Bit in the Garage but anxiety etc. Counting the Minutes 

15 pm walk a little Bit in the Forest anxiety etc,

16 pm talk with my aunt, sit a little Bit with her anxiety etc.

17 pm endure count the seconds

18 pm eat something 

19 pm try to watch tv with blue light Filter glasess and ear pads anxiety, cannot follow 

20 pm Think sometimes nap for second 

21 pm 0,14mg diazepam

22 pm 40mg Dominal go to bed Not able to sleep severeal Time toilette 

12 pm think Fall aslepp 

21. July

3 am think woke up Go to toilette, back to bed, hynagogue hallucinations, terrible thougts anxiety amnesia etc

6 am stand up 

And the same Beginn.

 

My sympthoms Are most head Symptoms,

Anxiety 24 hours, DP, DR, think losing the mind, hallucinations, akathisia, restless the whole day, if i sit down i got anxiety, hyper alert 24 hours, 

Not tired but very exhaused body and mental, due to Lack of sleep think i losing die mind and also head Doesnt work normal, Suizid thinking because i cannot endure,

Visuell disturbances, no felling of normal sleep and tiredness makes me Crazy, etc. No Chance to Relax 24 hours alert etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please list every dose of diazepam you've taken, by day, with the dosage. Thanks.

 

Arti, this request is a little different. I have to know how much diazepam you've taken every day since you started taking it over the last 3-4 weeks..

[Arti]

@Altostrata 

18. May 0,5mg tavor

20. May 0,5mg tavor

22. May 0,5mg tavor

23. May 0,5mg tavor

29. May 1mg tavor 

1. June 0,5mg tavor

6. June 5 mg valium 

8. June 5mg valium 

10 june 5mg valium 

12 june 5mg valium 

14 june 5mg valium 

16 june 5mg valium 

18 june 5mg valium 

4. Juli 5mg valium

6. Juli 2,5mg valium

7 Juli 1,25mg valium 

Then no notice

Fromm18.Juli morning 0,14mg evening 0,14mg 

[Altostrata]

7 minutes ago, Arti said:

6. Juli 2,5mg valium

7 Juli 1,25mg valium 

Then no notice

Fromm18.Juli morning 0,14mg evening 0,14mg 

 

Did you put yourself in diazepam withdrawal when you reduced for 2 days and quit? @Frogie will consult.

[Arti]

Bettwenn 6. July and 18. I also took small Amount but I didnt write down and cannot remember 

Meanwhile i think diazepam make ist worse if i take the small Dose this mornig akhathisie increase

An also felling in die Muscles 

[Altostrata]

My guess is you are taking too much diazepam. It should be taken once a day. Suggest you stop the morning dose and stop moving your drugs around.

[Arti]

So keep the 0,14 in the evenning and stopp the mornig Dose ok !!

Sorry for this confusion now i am in two withdrawl i Would avoid this but I could not stand this 

[Altostrata]

You need to stop your drug experiments. We cannot continue to support someone who makes their own problems.

[Arti]

Yes i will i am Sorry what i did in the past every Thing got worse. Hope i can survive, this is all i want  

[Frogie]

@Altostrata
 

Just like Altostrata said, you can’t move your drugs around or just stop it because your body gets used to them at a certain time. You’ve probably become dependent on the Valium at this point.

 

I would stop the morning dose, and only take the evening dose. But be consistent and take it at the same time everyday.  Valium stays in your body a long time. Around 200 hours, so it will take a while to feel a difference.

 

Also, have you tried magnesium and Omega (fish oil)? They do help with anxiety, it doesn't take it away. Try a small amount of one, and give it 3-4 days before introducing another one to make sure you don't have a reaction to it.

 

Do this for a few days then please let me know how you are feeling.
 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

Edited July 22, 2020 by Frogie
added text

[Arti]

@Frogie thanks ok then i will take the valium 0,14mg every evenning at 9pm 

Yes i took Magnesium 300mg and fish oil 1g every day since Month.

@Altostrata

I have been interested in a few questions for a long time not because of the medication. maybe you can give answer.

 

why I can not feel natural fatigue even though I do not sleep properly the feeling of not being able to feel fatigue has been plaguing me for a long time and I wonder why with almost no sleep I only feel exhaustion?

 

how is it possible to be so alarmed for months and weeks i can barely sit or lean back during the day then it is as if something in me is getting scared and my stomach contracts. in the evening I can sit a little more comfortably on the sofa, but only very late? 

 

when i'm so exhausted during the day and sit briefly and my eyes close, my stomach contracts i'm afraid and they open again a second later and i'm very scared why?

 

[Altostrata]

The answer to all your above questions is that you have antidepressant withdrawal syndrome from reducing paroxetine too fast. Those are symptoms of withdrawal syndrome.

[Arti]

@Frogie

@Altostrata

Now i took every evening 9pm 0.14 mg valium since nearly one week 

I still feel very Bad but maybe little Bit better only a little 

Sleep is still very disturbed  very poor between 3 and 4,5 hours 

How should i Continue with the valium i know drugs Experiments are Not a good idea 

But is there any chance to get away From the valium maybe over the next Month 

I don't take it very long and I don't want it to last forever

[Altostrata]

Has your sleep improved while you've been taking 0.14mg Valium once a day?