Arti: paroxetine 17 years intolerably

[Arti]

@Altostrata i think i can say sleep a little Bit improved but still bad since many Month the feeling of the sleep is always Bad

Feels Not deep Not Relaxing but this is since a long Time since first going off paroxetine. Meanwhile difficult to Fall asleep yesterday 

Going to bed 10 pm think Fall a sleep 12pm till 4am  

 

I think in the mornig the last days anxiety and confusion a little Bit less intense.

[Altostrata]

54 minutes ago, Arti said:

@Altostrata i think i can say sleep a little Bit improved but still bad since many Month the feeling of the sleep is always Bad

Feels Not deep Not Relaxing but this is since a long Time since first going off paroxetine. Meanwhile difficult to Fall asleep yesterday 

Going to bed 10 pm think Fall a sleep 12pm till 4am  

 

I think in the mornig the last days anxiety and confusion a little Bit less intense.

 

This is an improvement, isn't it?

 

You'll have to let your nervous system gradually settle down, even with the help of the diazepam.

 

Please update your signature.

[Arti]

@Altostrata ok i will keep you Updated thanks !!

[Arti]

@Altostrata i know at this point it is the wrong questiin 

Do you think it is is ever possible at some point to get rid of the medication it is my dearest wish and seems unreachable I am getting deeper and deeper into the pharmaceutical trap. And this makes me sad. 

thanks altostrata für your Work !

[ChessieCat]

Have a look at the success stories:  success-stories-recovery-from-withdrawal

 

These members were both poly-drugged for many years and managed to get off their drugs:

 

Shep     Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines

 

GiaK      withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug

[Arti]

Thanks chessiecat !!

i hope i can Do this. It is my deepest wish !

[Arti]

hello everybody i would like to talk about my sleep because it makes me very mad.

I have now had sleep problems since my first weaning off too quickly in January 2019, until I could not sleep at all, but when did sleep feel normal. then the sleep felt nothing deep.  since last August I could no longer estimate whether I sleep or not and now it is getting more and more bizarre. I don't notice any sleep or wake up. when i go to bed at 10pm and go to the toilet at 12pm i don't know what happened in between the time has passed. The worst begins at 3:30 a.m. or 4 a.m. a porridge I am very tired, at the same time I start to tremble for fear. I think different parts of the brain sleep briefly and wake up again. Amnesia occurs shreds of thought that I forget again I'm confused I don't know where I am. sometimes the body twitches. hypnagogic hallucinations come and go. until I get up at 6am but can hardly move from exhaustion.

It is very difficult to explain it i cannot feel sleep at  all. 

That it is so bad in the mornig happend the last 2-3 months, before that the typical Klrtisol thrust was fearful but the rest of the head was clearer. It haunts me all day long because it is terrifyingly terrifying. I am so afraid that this will never get better and I have to live like this I can't. I am afraid of the night before and every night and the whole day

can i do anything, or just wait and hope? it is not a recovery for me, even an afternoon nap or other relaxation is not possible the whole day i am on Fire 

 

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata I am getting worse and worse I have changed nothing about the medication my sleep is the horror I do not notice anything from sleep I am so exhausted that I can hardly walk anymore my head can no longer process I have hallucinations during the day See Faces in the wall or my head makes different pictures than I see every morning from 4am hell coming up amnesia trembles fear visions hallucinations, confused etc. it is not only that i do not sleep it is not a real sleep it only scratches the surface I have strong suicide thoughts and still want to live but I have to say it doesn't work anymore I can't think about it. Makes it sense after on and off with the paroxetine after 4 months to zero reinstate  a very small dose prozac. I think my brain will die with no sleep 

I am sorry about all !

[Altostrata]

On 7/21/2020 at 10:14 PM, Arti said:

So keep the 0,14 in the evenning and stopp the mornig Dose ok !!

Sorry for this confusion now i am in two withdrawl i Would avoid this but I could not stand this 

 

What happened to the diazepam?

[Arti]

@Altostrata i take it every evening 9pm. Dont know if i have a Benefit of it or disadvantage 

[Altostrata]

How do you feel before and after you take diazepam?

 

It helped you sleep at a higher dose, didn't it? How much was that?

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata i feel Not really different before and after taking diazepam. It is nearly the same like with the Dominal no different before and after taking. 

A few times I thougt i become more nervous after taking diazepam but it is such a confusion i dont know really. 

Locking back this hypnagogue hallucinations in the mornig came first after i think 8 weeks without paroxetine.

And with the use of the irregular using of the benzo so i think again it was making it worse.

 

6 or 8 weeks ago with 5mg diazepam i was able to have 4 to 5 hours of Bad sleep also Not more 

 

Last night i think i had 3-3,5 hours Bad sleep 

Sleep was Changing the last Weeks i am not able to come Into sleep if fells sometimes after 20 Minutes that poor sleep will come but then the mind again comes back to concius thinking and then i Go to toillet this happens several Times, most night i between 12pm and 3am i notice nothing i dont know if i was sleeping but Time passes. It is very ugly. 

I destroyed my sleep completely with this second too fast paroxetine reduction and die use of benzo.

The Dominal has no effect anyway. 

[Altostrata]

You're still taking Dominal? Please ask your pharmacist if it's safe to take Dominal with diazepam.

 

Before you took diazepam, when you were taking only Dominal, how did you feel before and after taking Dominal?

 

What is your daily drug schedule, with times and dosages?

[Arti]

@Altostrata i use the  interaction checker in Internet no effect were displayed 

I take the diazepam  0,14mg at 9pm und the 40mg Dominal at 22pm then i Go to bed 

I feel no different before and after taking Dominal. I am Not sure what and if Dominal do something 

Also i dont know if i have Interdose withdrawl of It because of short half Life. Sometimes i think the Night and mornig porridge und confusion in the head

Is Part of the Dominal effect but dont know 

It is difficult for me to say.

Dominal helps Not it is also Not so common in Germany. I found out that Hospitals use this as a Alternative drug for benzo because they say no dependece 

And as a demand drug to use if needed. 

[Altostrata]

I don't know anything about Dominal. Is yours in a capsule or a tablet? Did you ever talk to the doctor who prescribed Dominal, to find out more about the drug?

 

I asked you to talk to your pharmacist. Please ask your pharmacist 1) Does Dominal interact with diazepam; 2) What is the half-life of Dominal? 3) What is its solubility in water?

 

Over the last 6 months, how has your symptom pattern changed? How has your sleep pattern changed?

 

Is the 3-4 hours of sleep you're getting since adding 0.14mg diazepam an improvement? How are you measuring the diazepam?

 

From this article, half-life of prothipendyl appears to be less than 3 hours. Before you started taking diazepam, how did you feel a few hours after you take Dominal?

 

On 7/30/2020 at 10:00 PM, Arti said:

The worst begins at 3:30 a.m. or 4 a.m.

 

This may be when the Dominal wears off.

 

Please download this spreadsheet and check for interactions with diazepam. https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/14670#section=Drug-Drug-Interactions&fullscreen=true

 

You will have to do some work yourself on this, Arti.

[Arti]

@Altostrata thanks for the Link i will, Search vor diazepam 

A few answers that i can give right away

- i have Dominal in Tabletts but i have it also in Drops because i wanted it at somepoint tapper but didnt so far

- diazepam i have also in Drops for the small dosage i use water and a shot.

- the  Dominal was decriped in a Hospital april2019 so i cant Ask for that at that Time still because of insomnia because of first to fast paroxetin Exit 

   But at that Time it was not so Bad than now 

- six month Month before sleep pattern was Bad but since i stopp the paroxetin second Time it become worse.

- i think the 3-4 Hours with 0,14 diazepam Not really a improvement also the quality becomes more worse.

  Im Not sure as i told, if i took 5mg diazepam i could sleep 4 to 5 hours Bad quality but sometimes the next day without diazepam the same 

 The next day then 1 or 2 hours or nothing. Then take diazepam again. Then i think  in june 16 days no diazepam and also more or less sleep 

 

It is a very confused drug Situation i cannot detect what comes From paroxetin Dominal or diazepam 

[Altostrata]

Did you never talk to a doctor about Dominal? Who prescribed diazepam?

 

28 minutes ago, Arti said:

i think the 3-4 Hours with 0,14 diazepam Not really a improvement also the quality becomes more worse.

 

How much sleep were you getting before taking 0.14mg diazepam? How is it worse now? In what way is it worse?

[Arti]

@Altostrata i was talking  about Dominal with some doctors if i say it brings no benefit for me, they want try other drug

Opipramol pipamperin quetapin and so on i always say i want nothing i want to get off all drugs no different drug

So i was still taking it. A Big mistake 

 

Diazepam was descriped by my normal house doctor because i was asking for it. I didnt want any  aditiinal drug

But i could stand it sometime akhathisia, high alert, agitated 24 hours, i was screaming crying, hit myself completely out of bound. Still sometimes  

Since stopp paroxetin. 

I Wanted to use only every 10th day but I Couldnt stand.

[Arti]

@Altostrata the sleep got worse because the feeling und Confusion become more worse

Can Not detect i sleep or Not 

This was also so the last Month but i was laying in Bed and sometimes nothing detectet till 4 am also worse 

But now i lay in Bad stand up lay in Bad stand up till 12 oder later. Dont know what happend between 

And the mornig are very ugly hypnagogue hallucinations, dont know where i am, amnesia, feels like no contact From brain to body 

This comes since i think 8 or 10 weeks 

[Altostrata]

Arti, I find it very difficult to follow your posts.

 

What I need to know is when a symptom got worse or better.

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How much sleep were you getting before taking 0.14mg diazepam? How is it worse now? In what way is it worse?

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata Sorry i am very confused

Before 0,14mg diazepam in generell sleep was little bit better deeper.

Last night was the worst in my Life. Meanwhile i cannot detect sleep at all. Thougts i cannot follow

It is like you lay down with conscious thougts then after a while you Go to unconscious thougts und then back to conscious thougts with fear what happend but no sleep. In the mornig it got more worse.

Las night i had Symptoms of psychosis at 11pm was talking to myself, was not able to detect if my eyes are closed or Not. Brain Not able to Go off 

Last days every day sleep got more worse. Or i cannot say anymore if ist sleep or Not.

If this condition remains I will die thats sure. But i want to live 

Meanwhile i cannot feel anything i try Meditation Musik but no feeling cannot follow anything, brain cannot follow.

 

I am sorry that i cannot describe better or detect Symptome it is a confusion of all.

What i can say sleep feeling becoming worse every day since the last weeks i am scary to Go to bed because i know what happend porridge in the head.

I dont know if i am also in diazepam withdrawl and the 0,14 is to less or if it is to much and make it worse.

Alto can i survive? meanwhile my fear is Not because of no sleeping, but this condition while try sleeping and in the mornig it is a trauma every Night 

It is like the brain cannot Go in a state of sleep. 

Is it ever possible restore thee sleep maybe never like bevor but to survive and Life? 

 

So back to the question.

First i thougt maybe with 0,14mg diazepam it get better because one or two night feels a little Bit better but then it becomes more worse

how is it worse, the feeling during the night what i descriped become worse very scarry. Brain cannot Go off it is a felling that you are awake 24 hours with no chance to rest  

 

[Arti]

I feel like in a dead end diazepam und Dominal make it worse but no tapper possible because of kindling several times und confused Cns

[Hanna72]

Hi arti, so sorry to see that you are suffering this much. I pray you will get some relief soon🙏
You say that you can not meditate or listen to music, but there is always some things you CAN do. I know it feels like a dead end sometimes, and not being able to function is the worst. When our self talk is consumed by negative thoughts, it only makes us suffer more. You have a choice in how you talk to yourself in your head. If you feel like you can not do anything, you CAN try to be your own best friend at this moment and change your talk in the head. You can start out by saying, I Will get better. You have to believe, and have faith in yourself. Try to focus on all the people who have success stories to tell us. That’s a huge indicator that we all will heal. 
Please be kind to yourself, and know that your body and mind are doing everything it can at the moment to heal itself. This takes time and patience. 
You can start the day out by saying, I will get better, I will give my body time to heal, I trust in this process, and I will be free🙏

[Arti]

@Hanna72 thanks for your words. But i lost all hope Sorry i did so many mistakes with the drugs 

And the sleep Situation becomes so Bad i cannot believe or think clear that this will become ever better

 

Because my Situation is so Confused i found nobody who made so manny drug mistakes.  From the drug Situation it is a dead end

Yes i want believe that i can survive but without sleep and with this bizarre feelinngs i cant Sorry.

I was Fighting so much but Into the wrong Direcion 

Wish you all die best und thanks again!

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata

The following Text is written in the list

"The risk or severity of adverse  effect can be increase when diazepam is combined with Dominal" 

[Altostrata]

I might try this: Move the Dominal earlier by an hour each day, until you are taking it at 6 p.m.

 

This is to move the Dominal apart from the diazepam to see what effect the Dominal has on you. Also, it will decrease any drug-drug interaction with diazepam.

 

You will need to keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

 

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata can i ask  something back ?

What is more Stress for the cns move the Dominal earlyer or reduce Dose for 5%

Sorry for the question please dont understand wrong!  I ask because i want save all my rest Energy to get off the Dominal i feel that it is Not good for me.

From the beginning i had a Bad feeling Not like now but a Bad head feeling.  

 

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, Arti said:

What is more Stress for the cns move the Dominal earlyer or reduce Dose for 5%

 

Reducing the dosage probably will be much more difficult.

 

I will need this information

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You will need to keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

 

to answer any other questions.

[Arti]

@Altostrata

Friday

6:30pm very Hungry eat too much 

7:00pm Freezing, strange skin feeling, vision problems, agitated, try watch tv, stomach feel full 

9:00pm diazepam 0,14mg

9:15pm restless legs, agitated, vision problems, agitated, still try watch tv, little Akhathisie, sfrong heart beating, restless

10:00pm Dominal 40mg Listen to sleep music

10:15pm get a little Bit tired

10:45pm Go to bed 

11:30pm toilette Not knowing if sleept between, porridge, angry,  agitated, nervous, hit against Wall,

11:30pm-5:30am toilette mabye 8 times Not detected if sleept between, porridge

Saturday

5:30am hypnagogue hallucinations, anxiety, strange thougts, porridge,  confused,

6:30am stand up tremor, confused,  anxiety, think get mad, Burning Hand and arms, thinking over what happend last Night Trauma

7:30am breakfast Magnesium, fish oil

8:30am try to do small things in the garage, agitated,anxiety, think get mad

10:00am heat  wave Temperature increase, cannot endure in the house stay in the shadow, anxiety,agitated, problems with the light (sunglasses) tremor,think get mal

12:00am Lunch

12:30pm sitting in the kitchen endure, agitated, vision problems, tremor,think lose controll

2:00pm do small things in the garage anxiety, cannot endure the feeling of no getting sleep, Freezing, exhaust, vision problems,

3:00pm a friend Visite me Talk with him, too much for the brain, anxiety, tremor etc.

5:00pm sitting in the kitchen wait for running the time anxiety,tremor etc.

6:30pm dinner 

7:00pm try to watch tv brain flog, brain cant follow, vision problems

9:00pm diazepam 0,14mg brain flog, body tired brain Not, feel to get mad

9:15pm restless legs, agitated, angry

9:45pm tv off too much for the brain Listen to sleep music

10:15pm Go to bed stand up maybe 5 times for toilette Not detected if sleept or Not between porridge 

Sunday

4:30am Magnesium nach to bed maybe registrated some very light sleep

6:45am stand up exhaused, confused,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, Arti said:

9:00pm diazepam 0,14mg

9:15pm restless legs, agitated, vision problems, agitated, still try watch tv, little Akhathisie, sfrong heart beating, restless

10:00pm Dominal 40mg Listen to sleep music

 

Do you get restless legs after you take diazepam?

 

On 8/6/2020 at 12:41 PM, Altostrata said:

I might try this: Move the Dominal earlier by an hour each day, until you are taking it at 6 p.m.

 

Are you doing this?

[Arti]

@Altostrata

I think yes i got restless legs after diazepam and agitation increse a little is my feeling 

 

Until now i didnt move the  Dominal earlier i Am a little scared of it what happend.

And the last two days i feel a little Bit better and also a little Bit more restored after night. Anyway the sleep feels ugly 

I know this is only temporary but i could breathe a little deeply. Normal thougts coming up about Hobbys and normal Life feeling 

I dont know why and as i told a little Bit. 

[Arti]

@Altostrata do you think if i Love the Dominal earlier it has any effect of the sleep 

Last night again was terrible 

[Arti]

@Altostrata Sorry another question is it possible that some sympthoms get better like akhathisie, weakness, agitation, 

But sleep feeling and sleep becoming worse ?

In generell From the body i feel a little bit better also i can more eat the last weeks, and sit down with less akathisia, sleep is the worst thing i have 

And i feel in generell better if i had the feel night was better. What does this mean if i am 4 Month off paroxetine everything temporary ?

And i am most scarried about the sleep as i know it right you had more than ten years sleep issues because of the paroxetin.

 

Sorry for the many questions !

I will think over moving  Dominal earlier meanwhile i am so scary about everything 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

I've given you my best guess about what might help, Arti. The Dominal may be interacting with diazepam. Taking them further apart might help you feel better.

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata ok i will move it earlier day by day i give you answer what happens thanks !!

[Arti]

Hello all

Meanwhile i cannot sleep at all. So WD hit me very hard 

because of my Historia and what i have to go through

I think i cannot survive it is a question of Time. 

I feel body will breakdown no more Energy and the brain damage because of no sleep ist Too much 

Brain cannot work without any sleep to recover 

All sleeping rules dont help sleep mechanism is damaged

I dont know what i can do to rescue anything i Would say thankyou to everybody for Support me!!

The only think who killing me is having no sleep and it becomes worse und worse  

@Altostrata i move the Dominal at the Moment i am at 9pm Dont know if i can Continue i am really at the end 

But if you think it helps i will Continue