Arti: paroxetine 17 years intolerably

[Arti]

1.10.

 

awfull day

5:30pm cook awfull but more calmed than then whole day have still walk up and down

6pm Diazepam 0,14mg

6:30pm Dinner stomach pain the rest the same anxiety increase, genital feelings, think bekomming mad and mind drift away

                heartbeating

7:30pm fell terrible in all ways

8:15pm anxiety, restless legs, fell that i die immediatelly

               micro nap with daydream mixed witch TV and reallity awfull

9pm Dominal 30mg Reduction from 32,5mg

9:30pm no different than before cannot understand yesterday was big different, micro nap with daydream mixed witch TV and reallity awfull

10pm Bed

-10:45pm several times toilett dont know i sleept between

 

2.10

3:30pm Watch the clock dont know what happend if sleept, confused, anxiety, very strange stante of conscicious, strange intrusive thoughts, cannot feel the body where is my hand ot my leg

               awful but so exhaust lay downuntill 7pm in this stae move from left to right tremor coming up and exterem amnesia and anxiety

7am get up

7am-11am not able to speak clearly Psychotic sympthoms, restelss, agitated screaming crying a lot cannot endure inner preseure, so exhaust not able to walk correct, not able to sit because fear to drift away with micro nap

                     absent, anxiety, suizidal

 

 

@Altostrata dont know what is good what is bad, the night was awful i do not exaggerate. it s  like i write meanwhile i dont know anything is it all withdrawl is it that i have paradoxal reactions to dominal or diazepam i dont know it is over the limit to life, my wife would bring me to the hospital but i wont this not another other drugs. 

is it possible that i canot tollerate the dominal anymore at all? cannot understand what happend the last weeks is it the paroxetin withdrawl that increase but i never read such symphoms. or make the dominal or diazepam me crazy. i would understand it so much an underastand why things are like that. the fakt i know i am in PAWS from Paroxetin. but i dont understand these awfulls states of concscicius in the night and also during the day

if i fall in mirco nap in front of TV for seconds it is the same i dont know what whapened a mix with TV, Dreams, Thoughts, i dont know if eyes are closed or what happened, this scarriy me so much. and it happend also before i take Dominal so could it also have to do with domial? i have the Whole day fear of this states of conscisius. i have a traume for siting on the coach in the evening and going to bed, because of these things

it fell like my brain 24hous full alerted never able to relax menwhile my eyes are burning like fire i think because so tired but cannot feel the tiredness

 

i read a lot in the Forum so much pain and horror but for the most it would become better maybe never healed comlete but lifeable.  dont know why my symphoms are so different from others this scarry

me and i worry that something else is wrong in my brain.

 

[ChessieCat]

Paradoxical means that something doesn't work the way it is meant to work.

 

A paradoxical reaction happens when a person experiences the opposite of what the drug is intended to do.  If a patient responds to medication in a contradictory or opposite way to what is expected, it is said to have had a paradoxical effect.  An example of this is pain relief medication causing increased pain.

 

On 10/1/2020 at 3:34 AM, Altostrata said:

 

From your description, it appears you are suffering paradoxical effects from Dominal. It's supposed to be calming but makes you agitated. This indicates the dosage is too high.

 

 

Alto thinks that you are getting a paradoxical reaction to Dominal and that instead of making you calm it is working the opposite and is stimulating you or making you agitated.

 

 

 

[Arti]

@ChessieCat

@Altostrata

 thanks yes i understood that but I dont understood this strange states of conscious that i have i think this i different From agitated. 

And what i also Not understand is why i am agitated and full of Chemical anxiety the whole day even if Dominal only have half Life Time of 3 hours 

Could this effect me the whole day or is it then Interdose withdrawl From it. And also this awful morning stuff is it when the effect wear of.

 

I know it is difficult but I Would really know if this all is Dominal recent or paroxetin withdrawl

And when ist paroxetin withdrawl then it could stay for very long Time. And to be honest this is Not endurable i have to endure So much at my stupid way since Januar 2019 but that since the last i think 4 Month is Not From this World i feel that my Energy to fight is very Low and meanwhile i think also other things could happend who damaged the brain maybe the Computer Tomographie  in Januar 2019 maybe i got a Bad trip from it and now every Thing got worse because of the drug changes 

Sorry for the blabla chessie i am really at the end cry a Lot the whole day. Hyperawake Not able to Rest or sit quit since nearly 2 years my mind and body has no more Power 

[Altostrata]

You had a nap yesterday? That's good.

[Arti]

@Altostrata no Sorry these are micronaps only seconds then See the  tv then seconds again  nap with seconds of Dreams and visions 

The Moments later i come back to normal state of conscious it feels terrible and then anxiety increase 

I have this very often in the evening maybe because Lack of sleep in former times also during the day if i sit in the chair 

Meanwhile it scarries me so much that i have fear of sitting komfortable during the day

This is one of my Main issues and i think its similar to what happened during the night 

Also i didnt read that for any other members which scarry me more and i think why only i have this 

Is awful believe me i have this since last year January or february Now it becomes worse 

Meanwhile i think something damaged in my brain since the Computer Tomographie in Januar 2019 round about this time 

I cannot Rest or sit comfortabel if i try anxiety in the stomach und chest and Genitals coming up and always a fear to lose controll or mind drift away i dont know if this is Related to withdrawl or Bad trip 

[Arti]

@Altostrata forget to tell yesterday reduced Dominal to 30mg and a few days before i moved it back to 9pm because i thougt to avoid these  awful micronaps 

But it still happens even before taking Dominal 

[Arti]

@Altostrata Hello i tappered the Dominal 1 week ago at 1th oct to 30mg.

Since that things changed a little, i am more able to calm down. I was not freaking out completely 

And akhathisia improved, also this feeling to be disconnected to the body. Sometimes i am able to lay on the Coach Not to sleep but Relax a little 

Still everything is difficult but it seems a little less. Still sleep is terrible But also changed 

I think i can feel a little sleep as i allways told i cannot feel sleep but at 3 or 4 am its over with porridge in the head but the anxiety in this Phase and at all

Is Not so extreme like before.

Meanwhile i notice every Time i take Dominal,  restless legs, akhathisia, anxiety, restlessnes,  quesy increase so it is obviusly that the recent for some issues could be the  Dominal. 

I want to ask how i can Continue wait 4 weeks between every tapper or in case of this Paradox effects maybe in the beginning shorter Periode 

I want to eliminate this awful drug but wont make mistakes thanks!

 

[Altostrata]

Yes, I might taper Dominal at a very gradual rate every 2 weeks. Good to hear less Dominal means less adverse effects from it.

[Arti]

@Altostrata Sorry after 3 days a little better, full hell is back. 2 nights with nearly no sleep and Freak out madness

I have a question i have adverse effects From Dominal but this means Not that i have no withdrawl From it if i tapper it i have it anyway

I dont know but I think the insomnia in generell comes From protacted withdrawl From paroxetin und this awful effects From Dominal 

Is this right?  And do you think anyway the Dominal mask a little the withdrawl From paroxetin ?

Alto my biggest concern is that i never can sleep again. I cannot expect that sleep will recover like bevor this hope i have lost 

But my hope was to have a sleep with i can life.

I know your history  was it really that you could not sleep at all this is nearly in my case. And took it 10 years to recover 

Or was it before that 10 years that you can Life with it. Sorry for this questions feel free if you Would answer 

[Altostrata]

Arti, as explained many times, sometimes your symptoms will be worse and sometimes they will be better.

 

When did you last reduce Dominal, and by how much?

[Arti]

@Altostrata 1.Oct Thursday last week from 32,5mg to 30mg now I am at 30mg 

[Altostrata]

It doesn't seem likely your surge of symptoms is related to Dominal tapering, those would have shown up earlier.

 

Your symptom pattern goes up and down, correct? It's likely to change again in a few days.

[Arti]

@Altostrata yes symptoms go up and down and it changes every time. The three days before i thought maybe things become better now i feel worse than ever. The problem is cannot say what’s from Dominal and what’s From Paroxetin,  and Does the paws from Paroxetin still increase after 6 month off. I still hope with less Dominal things become more endurable, I hope i can hang in there and fight. Thanks Alto!! 

[Altostrata]

You've been off paroxetine since April 2020. Withdrawal from paroxetine can last a lot longer than 6 months. Yes, it can go up and down.

 

As discussed before many times, it doesn't seem the Dominal is doing anything helpful and may be hurting. Nobody can tell you exactly what's going on. Please stop asking that question.

[Arti]

@Altostrata want to give Update still on 30mg Dominal at 9pm. The nights changed another Time becoming worse. 

Go to bed at 10pm meanwhile i detect that the first hour i Go the toilette every 15min. In former times it was my typical Time to Fall a sleep

Now it feels that conscious drift in the Direktion to sleep but then came back and i think have to Go to toilette, then back to bed and the same again.

After a few times I think i lost conscious or Fall to sleep or wathever as i told i feel no sleep. than between 2am und 4am i come to conscious no wake up point Go to toilette und back to bed. Then the real nightmare Beginns, slowly anxiety increase Chemical anxiety comes From the body Not From the mind, awful intense thougts visions Sounds, hallucinations like i am in die middle of it. Mixed combined with feeling. Also it Starts that i cannot get enough air, breathing problems and preasure in my chest. It feels sometimes i lost conscious und forgott to breathe. Then i have to breathe very deep. Also akathisia Starts in the legs. And Burning skin 

I Force myself to Lay down until 6am because so exhaust but nearly Not possible. 

Dont  know what to do going forward to reduce the Dominal now i am 2weeks on 30mg or Stopp reducing. Dont know what this is startend between 2am und 4am 

I cannot believe that this is normal chortisol. Is it the wear of Dominal Interdose withdrawl.

I wish i could give you more Information to help i am so exhaust thanks! 

 

[Altostrata]

Arti, that is not the daily symptom pattern report I have requested from you dozens of times. I need to see those daily notes in this format.

 

Why do I have to keep asking for this?

[Arti]

@Altostrata Sorry i Would only say that another Time the feeling of the nights changed and the breathing problems are new. the Rest of the day nearly the same as the last Weeks. Today are two weeks gone so as you say it is ok for reduction every two weeks i will do this.

Sorry again that you have to ask again for daily Report i will do it before next Message 

[Arti]

21.10

3:30am think woke up toilette back to bed

3:30am-5:30am Force lay down extreme akathisia legs shaking body turn From left to right, intensive thougts, cant get air, problems with breathing it a feeling like the body forgott to breathe. Quesy feeling in the body whole body is tens have to remember to breathe anxiety 

5:30am stand up go to Coach endure die same extreme akathisia and ihn er akathisia 

7am breakfast dizzy several times toilette (big)

8am fish oil 

8am to 12am endure the akhathisia restless and anxiety extreme weak and exhaust 

12pm Lunch 

1pm to 6pm short walk outside try to do something in die kitchen still akhathisie Burning eyes because of tiredness

endure still awfull little settle down but very weak  

6pm diazepam 0,14mg

6:15pm dinner fell terrible like Flu or ill and very weak the whole day 

7pm try to watch tv most of the Time look on the wall only Thing calm down is akathisia so exhaust Micro naps From Time to Time 

9pm Dominal the same restless legs increase 

9:30pm Go to bed think body breakdown in the bed very nervous several times toilette

11pm-3am maybe sleep 

3am-5:30am Force lay down extreme akathisia can shaking body turn From left to right, intensive thougts, cant get air problems with breathing it a feeling like the body forgott to breathe. Quesy feeling in the body whole body is tens have to remember to breathe anxiety 

5:30am stand up to Coach die same endure extreme akathisia problems to breathe think i die so weak 

 

@Altostrata Sorry Alto For the light Report i am so weak meanwhile since 15oct i take 27,5mg Dominal and sleep feels different but becoming less and dont know what happend in the morning Starting at 3am is it Interdose withdrawl From Dominal the akathisia is extreme and the body is so tense that i cannot  breathe 

I feel that some effects From Dominal become less like this i called trance but on the other side things becoming worse und i am very exhaust and weak. And this akathisia is very very exhausting to endure it is for many hours. Dont know what to do. No sleep after 3am possible  

 

[Altostrata]

How have your nighttime symptoms changed and when did this change start?

[Arti]

@Altostrata i think it startet since this week. As i said less sleep only 2-4 hours still Not feeling like sleep 

And in the morning beginning round about 3am akathisia worst in the legs but going thru the whole body in the Genitals stomach  chest i have problems to get Air.

The body is tense so difficult to breathe and the thougt are terrible intensive i am so restless and have to move From left to right und extreme anxiety . During die day akathisia goes on only in the evenning it is little Bit better.

But because the sleep becoming less i feel so weak the whole day und the brain doesnt work, anxiety the whole day . My eyes are Burning 

And i have more body sympthoms. Little pain, stomach und gut problems, in the evening i am so exhaust it is difficult to walk to the second floor

And last Night anxiety Starts also when in Lay in the Bed. And i become restless and little akathisia so i think maybe i had sleep From 1am to 3am 

[Arti]

@Altostrata i have Seen the film From Peter Gotzschke posted  2018 From jan Carol and i i have Seen the pictures of the victims of tardife dyskinese and  akathisia 

i have Seen me it is the same like the little girl or the boy or the guy laying on the bed moving und cannot calm  

it is exactly the same. I know i should Not scare myself but it is extreme to endure So i Search what it is and this is it.

[Altostrata]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:49 AM, Arti said:

since 15oct i take 27,5mg Dominal and sleep feels different but becoming less

 

When did your sleep change after you made this reduction, or did it change before you made the reduction?

 

Yes, we have discussed your symptoms. One thing you might be able to do is increase diazepam a little.

[Arti]

@Altostrata it changed a few days after Dominal reduction.

Last night i think i got more sleep maybe 5 hours of ugly unknown sleep but then the same breathing prblems, akathisia, thougts, cannot feel the body awful state of conscious,

Yesterday nearly the whole day intense akathisia becoming less a little in the evening only one or two hours and then after Dominal again increased.

I would really like to know what happened and why, side effects withdrawl but yes i know nobody can tell

Regarding the diazepam. I have to think about it maybe it is a Chance to help but it is a Problem with my attitude i sworn myself that i will never increase

Again one of this awful drugs. I want to be free one day. But if its die only way to survive i dont know 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Need to see those daily notes over 24 hours.

[Arti]

@Altostrata ok i will Start now to write down will Post tomorrow thanks !

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata

 

24.Oct

5pm cooking agitated, anxiety and akathisia endurable, feeling of losing control

6pm Diazepam 0,14mg

         Dinner

7pm Hot skin maybe after eating, anxiety endurable, fellingof loosing control settle down a little bur scarry of the night, still little agitaed and akahtisia in feets and stomach

7:30pm try watch tv most time i look at the wall

8pm exhaust but not tired Tinitus

8:45p, becoming nervous, restless legs and akathisia increase also geiatal feelings

9pm Dominal 27,5mg

9:20pm Agitated, akathisia increase more

10pm bed

10pm-2am several times toilet, feel like a little sleep between not sure, swaeting

 

25.oct

2-3am anxiety nervous maybe feels like short sleep betweeen

3-6am minute by minute anxiety, intrusive thoughts, akathisia with genital feelings and restless legs increase more and more, cannot get enough air have to breathe very deep, feels like suffocate, tremor, often toilet, is is like a circle intrusive thoughts of everything then Feels like drift away to sleep them i recognize that i didnt breathe and then deep strong breathing and anxiety

6am stand up an lay on the coach the same

7am breakfast

8am-10am am out of control roll on the coach and on the ground, strong genital felling, extreme akathisia think becoming mad, screaming, crying hitting everything, heartburn, belching, painin the body

           shaking and moving arms and legs kicking, hit myself

10 am the same less intense but sill awfull akathisa but very exhaust

10:30am took a shower

11am Still akathisia and belching everything callmed down but only a little

12pm Lunch Akathisa less intesense but still there, freezing, skin tingle, tremor, anxiety, Brain Fog, exhaust,

1pm very exhaust but sill akathisia most in the legs and genitals  very hopeles, a little body pain and tense in the whole body

2pm short wald outside nearly not possible so weak and exhaust, body feels so thik anxiety quesy (24/7) genital feelings belching

         come back nothing possible only sit on the table and wait

3pm reading like hypnotized in the forum at the table and endure the anxiety and akathisia in legs and genitals, head is shaking with  smal movements since many month all the time

4pm the same

7pm Diazepam 0,14mg ( there was i time shift in germany to winter time)

6pm Dinner

7pm read forum anxiety, extreme exhaust, genital feelings, feel very weak, still belching, everything difficult but not so intense like in the morning

7:30pm try watch tv but most look ath the wall genital feelings, exhaust, cognitive problems(whole day) still anxiety of the night terror

8pm dominal 27,5mg (time shift)

8:30pm Fall in trance if i look the all dont know if i am wake ir sleep or what stae of conscicious this is the awfull and i dont nor how to describe micronaps with i dont recognize or whatever happens

9pm akahtisia, restless legs anxiety increase genital feelings, itch

9:15pm Bed

9:15pm-3am one time touilet at the beginning, think maybe i sleept but feels terrible

3-6am anxiety akathisa and intrusiver thougths mabe again a short nap i think, thought are so intense dialogs stories sometimes think i drift to sleep but it doesnt happenes , breathing problems

6am stand up

7 am breakfast anxiety, quesy confused it seems akathisia is not so intenese

8 am the same

 

 

Yesterday the akahtisia was awfull not enduable it seems that if the night is a little bit better also akahtisa is a little bit better

also i dont know what i could say the feeling at night and in the morning changed another time not to better but it feels diiferent than 2 weeks before. so i dont know but i think

the dominal make something in my head. but cannot say is it better to continue tapper or stay i am so confused i am so exhaust.

another feeling is that more body sympthoms coming up dont know if this is the paroxetin witdhrawl and some sympthoms was masking by the dominal an since it is less dominal they coming out more

on thursday 2 weeks since the tapper from 30mg to 27,5mg are gone. should i continue Tapper on thursday ?

 

[Altostrata]

I don't know, Arti. Do you feel better or worse after you take Dominal?

 

You might increase the diazepam a little, perhaps to 0.175mg, rather than make a change in Dominal.

[Arti]

@Altostrata i feel Bad after taking Dominal. Akathisia, anxiety, restlessnes increased  allways the  last Time i took it 

Let me think about diazepam it is difficult for me to agree this meanwhile with my attitude. I lost nearly everyrhing in my Life the only goal i still have is to be 

At one Time free of drugs. Not healthy i think that is Not possible after all i read but maybe free. 

Do you think Dominal covers a little the paroxetin withdrawl and since the Dominal is less it comes more out

And for that reason to feel better increase the diazepam ?

 

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, Arti said:

Do you think Dominal covers a little the paroxetin withdrawl and since the Dominal is less it comes more out

And for that reason to feel better increase the diazepam ?

 

Maybe.

 

If you feel worse after taking Dominal, it seems to me that continuing to reduce it would be a good idea. If it is doing something helpful, the diazepam may substitute.

[Arti]

@Altostrata Ok thanks Altostrata!!

Today was on my meanwhile Scala more ore less endurable far away From human

If i assesess my Situation correct than i only have two adjustement screws left Dominal and diazepam 

The Train with paroxetin or other ssri is gone. Its to late and Would be another Stress and damage for the cns

So the only Thing i can do is gradually remove the Dominal and if its Too hard increase the diazepam and dont think on it and hopefully kichout another Time.

So i Would reduce Dominal in few days or a week. And think about diazepam but as i Learned Not both at one Time  

Hope this Sounds ok for you ?

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 10/23/2020 at 5:01 PM, Altostrata said:

 

....

 

Yes, we have discussed your symptoms. One thing you might be able to do is increase diazepam a little.

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata

May i can Ask a question about this Link 

http://w-bad.org/kindling/

 

Meanwhile i know i am several Time Kindled reinstate too much tapper too fast benzo added and so on this scarry me a Lot

In this Article is written that short half Life z drugs Kindle People by itself every day because of the Interdose withdrawl.

So the Dominal is also short half Life similar like z drugs

So the question is do i Kindle my System on and on  every day ?? Additinal to every kindling in die past 

 

 

[Altostrata]

If you have been having a bad reaction to Dominal every day, that puts additional stress on your nervous system. How is your Dominal tapering going? Did you increase diazepam a little?

[Arti]

@Altostrata i am Holding both since 3 weeks Dominal 27,5mg. Diazepam 0,14mg 

The sleep becoming more strange the feeling of the sleep. And in the morning Starting between 3 and 4:30am breathing problems, hypnagogue hallucinations but different than few weeks before i cannot explain very strange. Also during the night Not knowing if sleeping, dreaming or thinking. 

I have the feeling that after i take the Dominal it becoming worse but on the other Hand I have fear of tappering because of the sleep.

Yes i know i resist increasing the diazepam, please dont be angry about this i still think about it i also fear this, one day i Would be free 

Last two nights are a little only a little Bit better than the nights before maybe 4h or more of broken poor not perceive sleep but I feel a little more restored.

What i can say is every Night wich feels a little Bit better the sympthoms over the day are Not so brutal anxiety, akathisia, brain flog, food problems and belching etc. 

Sure i Life in a 24h of a nightmare But every little relief meanwhile i am thankfull 

 

 

[Arti]

@Altostrata ok during the day head was working a little Bit. You think increase the diazepam because of long half Life Time to help get off the Dominal with very short half Life Time wich allways is bad like the z-drugs

correct?

 

 

[Altostrata]

We have been talking about this for months.