Icip: Has anyone with these symptoms had them improve, or completely go away?

[mstimc]

14 hours ago, Icip said:

I’ve just read some posts from people in the anti-psychiatry Reddit, people who claim that they’ve forever ‘lost parts of their brain’, or personality, they’ve had to drop out of education because of it, and it’s gotten me quite down. Do you think these people are still in withdrawal but don’t know it? The brain is while amazing, such a scary concept + I don’t think I’ve ever stopped to appreciate how things hardly ever go wrong for normal people. The most complex organ in our body is also the most resilient/‘sturdy’.

 

I read things like that subreddit and just feel so ashamed and guilty that I ever took those pills for the short time which I did.

Icip

 

I believe people who think they've permanently lost mental or emotional abilities are either still in WD or never understood what they were experiencing to begin with.  The number of people who find forums like this or other forms of support are a terribly small percentage of the number on psychoactive drugs.  They were prescribed medications for "illnesses" that aren't curable by medication; when the medication doesn't do what they want or they stop taking it, they go into withdrawal and don't know what's happening to them.  Add to that the condition that drive them to medication in the first place, and you have the perfect mental storm.    I don't think these meds result in permanent physical damage (at least I've never seen any legitimate medical evidence of it).  It is a struggle--sometimes a long one-- to recover from withdrawal, but it is very possible. 

 

Please don't beat yourself up.  A medical expert--someone you trusted--prescribed these to you.  He or she was only doing what he or she thought best--so many doctors have no idea how SSRI's and SNRI's work; they just go along with what mainstream medicine recommends.   Focus on a future without meds and withdrawal.  Will you be the same person you were?  No.  You will be wiser and stronger for it.  Any major life event changes forever, for better or worse, and we're different people from who we were.  That doesn't mean we can't be happy or productive; we may be more self-aware and empathetic to others' suffering.   Things will be better!

 

 

[Icip]

Hi @mstimc, @Boris, and @Sunnyday,

 

I’ve read all of your messages and greatly appreciate your words.

I’ve been in what I hope to be a wave for the past week and a bit or so - I’m just so tired all the time + become overwhelmed very easily n need to rest. Chasing a huge spider round my room earlier today was enough to make me want to hibernate for the entirety of summer.

 

Boris, reading what you’ve added has definitely made me feel a little better, even if it all feels so impossible. I’ve taken a little more joy + ease when doing some minor graphical things for my friends, however serious or jokey they are.

 

Mstimc, I’m obviously far from being out of withdrawal! I know I’m feeling less ‘chemically-ill’, and more of a natural one, my brain + thinking still doesn’t feel so great. For the personal experience that withdrawal is, everyone else’s words always mean so much - I guess because of a lack of backbone in ourselves to know it will end one day.

 

Sunnyday, what kind of art do you do, and what games do you play? Sounds very idyllic heh. Studying is all I want to get back to, other than my own light sensitivity - my other eye issues don’t bother me so much, I just want the brain fog to go.

What books do you read? I’ve got a huuuuge pile next to my bed which all need reading, some great ones on political economy which I meant to read on own accord to benefit my course. I’m going to try and start rereading the Hobbit - however I still struggle reading things on my phones screen, so we’ll see.

 

Thank you all for stopping by and for the support, I feel bad about not being able to reply as swiftly as I’d like; I guess that’s the nature of withdrawal - stuff takes longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

Hi Icip

 

Great post!  You have the right attitude!

 

One book I loved was "March of Folly" by Barbara Tuchman, an American professor of history.  Its about several times in history when national and political leaders did the exact opposite of what was in their countries' best interests despite clear and compelling reasons to do otherwise.  It was written in the 1980's but remains relevant, especially if you're an American like me.

[Sunnyday]

@Icip Being tired a lot can make it harder to get through the day so I hope you're managing okay. Being easily overwhelmed also makes it harder of course. 

 

I play only a few games on pc sometimes, survival mostly. And I do digital and traditional art. Drawing mainly but also painting. 

I feel you when it comes to the amount of books to read! Got a list that I want to get through eventually as well. Right now I'm reading Marcus Aurelius's Meditations, and one about ethology.

I'm sure Political economy can be very insightful to get into as well, do you find it interesting?

Not sure how much off-topic I'm allowed to get in the forum but feel free to message otherwise.

 

It's good to hear your issues with your vision isn't too troubling now, apart from the light sensitivity. Do you ever wear sunglasses for it? I even wore them inside at times during the day because the light gave me a headache in the mornings. Bit silly to wear inside maybe, but it worked!

 

Take care

[Icip]

Hi all,

 

I had a nice window the other day, it only lasted for a couple of hours - but I felt weirdly normal. Then I ate two caramel rice crispy blocks (first sugar of the day) + everything just went foggy, head pressure, and such.

 

Later in in the evening, I had what felt like my entire chest tightening which jerked me forward whilst lying on my bed. I believe (I hope) that this is a muscle jerk of my diaphragm. I’ve been so worried that I’ve had a heart attack, my anxiety gives me chest pains n I’ve been having them all day - this has been the lowest day for me during withdrawal.

It felt like someone strangled me for a second, I’m terrified.

 

Icip.

[Sunnyday]

Hi Icip. That sounds awful. Do you have relaxation techniques for when anxiety comes on that intense? The times I had big difficulties breathing and similar symptoms from anxiety I  ''gave up'' mentally and avoided fighting it. I'm aware it can be hard to do, but every time I managed to do that it didn't take long before the worst symptoms lessened instead of getting worse. I gave up by telling myself ''what happens happens'' and it won't help me to worry and it definitely won't help to fight it. By fighting it I mean trying hard to make it go away. Genuinely getting into that mindset if possible can be helpful towards the worry part at least for me.

 

If that isn't helpful, maybe deep breathing could be an idea (while looking at it as a way to manage the situation rather than fighting it).

Maybe doing more regular breathing exercises/relaxation techniques could be helpful if the pain comes on very suddenly. Guided ones on youtube have been very helpful to me during withdrawal since I wasn't able to focus on it without a guide.

 

If you suspect it could be a medical issue though it's important to not ignore that of course.

 

Take care and hope you'll feel better soon.

[Icip]

@Sunnyday,

 

I’ve looked around the site + other members have reported a similar experience - there’s a symptom thread for it. I posted there and have been told it’s to do with my ‘vagus nerve’ stabilising. The vagus nerve controls heart rhythm, since the ‘jerk’, I’ve noticed that my heart beat has gone back to normal baring some recurring palpitations.

I may just be hyper-vigilant/anxious but i can feel my heart beat now! I haven’t been able to for ages. I guess it’s just a rather hopeful way to look at a could-be heart attack hehe.

 

Heart aches and pains really are the scariest, did you have any anxiety related heart problems before withdrawal?

I’ve never been one to accept things very easily, I like to dwell on the past and future - very rarely spending time in the moment. So I normally spend a few hours researching what the pain could be which can give me some relief, like when I’m tired or anxious I always get a tight chest + heart palpitations; I’ve come to accept it.

Do you do any breathing exercises regularly? One that helps me is a simple breathe in through nostrils, then out of the mouth - helps me to focus on it.

 

What is the ethology book you’re reading? And what is ethology? I’ve not come across the term before, or I might just be being stupid.

Oh I love political economy, I have adhd so have found it hard to click with most subjects - I’ve never clicked with one like PolEcon. Makes me feel even worse to be in the state I am now.

 

I let a friend borrow my sunglasses last summer! Haven’t had a chance to get them back since being home from University because of COVID; I would love to and 100% wear them indoors all the time! Dim white lighting really glares especially in low-light.

 

 Hope you’re keeping well!

 

Icip.

[Icip]

@mstimc,

 

oooOo I’ll have to add that to my future reading list (may be a little way down the line till I can muster a book). Have you heard of the ‘end of history’, when everything that could ever happen will have happened, and we’ll just keep living on a plateau, or repeat of previous events forever?

There’s a great post-Cold War book called, ‘The Clash of Civilisations, and the new world order’, by Samuel J. Huntington, it’s about the different era of wars/conflicts we’ve had - each distinguished by a set difference + the grouping together of nations with shared values. So we’ve seen conflict of empires, conflict of religions, conflicts of ideology, conflicts of state systems (Cold war),  now we’re entering a conflict of ways of life and values, so Chinese authoritarianism vs Western liberalism.

I’m British, but we’re taught as if we’re American anyway at school (American history and Geography), all interesting.

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

7 hours ago, Icip said:

@mstimc,

 

oooOo I’ll have to add that to my future reading list (may be a little way down the line till I can muster a book). Have you heard of the ‘end of history’, when everything that could ever happen will have happened, and we’ll just keep living on a plateau, or repeat of previous events forever?

There’s a great post-Cold War book called, ‘The Clash of Civilisations, and the new world order’, by Samuel J. Huntington, it’s about the different era of wars/conflicts we’ve had - each distinguished by a set difference + the grouping together of nations with shared values. So we’ve seen conflict of empires, conflict of religions, conflicts of ideology, conflicts of state systems (Cold war),  now we’re entering a conflict of ways of life and values, so Chinese authoritarianism vs Western liberalism.

I’m British, but we’re taught as if we’re American anyway at school (American history and Geography), all interesting.

 

Icip.

Thanks, Icip!  I'll add those to my list!  Along the lines of European history, I'd recommend "A World Lit by Fire", about life during the Middle Ages, and just how difficult it was.  Good perspective in this time lof loackdowns.

[mstimc]

7 hours ago, Icip said:

’ve never been one to accept things very easily, I like to dwell on the past and future - very rarely spending time in the moment. So I normally spend a few hours researching what the pain could be which can give me some relief, like when I’m tired or anxious I always get a tight chest + heart palpitations; I’ve come to accept it.

Do you do any breathing exercises regularly? One that helps me is a simple breathe in through nostrils, then out of the mouth - helps me to focus on it.

When I'm anxious, it gets me in the upper left chest just like a heart problem.  I've had a couple of routine EKG's and ultrasounds and know my heart is fine, but its still scary, especially as I get older.  I find walking gets rid of the tightness and clears my mind.  Nothing strenuous, just a walk around the neighborhood.

[Sunnyday]

@Icip it's good you've been able to find what is most likely causing it, can be calming to know. And also that it has lessened!

 

No, before withdrawal I didn't really have any anxiety at all. I had "social anxiety" but never really got anxiety symptoms from that. It just made me exhausted and uncomfortable to be around people (depression was what made me go on the drugs). 

But the anxiety has also become less and less so I believe all the WD related stuff will go away eventually. From what I gathered you haven't had issues with anxiety before withdrawal either? 

 

And yes sometimes I do the same one you do, for as long as possible. I've heard the exhale should always be longer so I try to do that. And then sometimes I breathe only through my nose while meditating, it depends. 

 

Ethology is when you study animal behaviour, so usually good for people who work with animals in general. The book has a title translated to swedish so I'm not sure what the english title is, but the author is Niko Tinbergen. 

 

It's great to find something we feel passionate about. But can definitely be demotivating with all this happening for sure, I felt the same way. It brought me down that I couldn't do the things I loved as much or at all. But now I finally can, so I'm sure you'll be able to get back to it as well eventually since it seems to be going in the right direction. A lot about waiting out the symptoms! And managing meanwhile. 

 

I'm well thanks, hope you are okay as well. 

 

Edit: No pressure to respond to this wall of text by the way! 

[Icip]

@Sunnyday,

 

Re anxiety - I took medication for anxiety attacks, I have never been consciously 'anxious' unless you count rumination which came with OCD. A few months ago, I attended the introductory lecture to my second semester - I didn't know anyone there, my mind started racing, I had a hot flush, + started sweating. I'd never ever had that before, I'm usually a little jittery, but mostly calm.

 

I'm sorry for taking so long to reply, my symptoms + general feeling have been in a constant up and down, right now I'm struggling to type this + read. My head is so foggy.

 

Thanks,

 

Icip.

[Icip]

General Update:

 

I've had a lot more 'good days' or moments recently, my mood was quite high + I generally had hope for my future, over the past two weeks it's just been downhill - my visual static has worsened, afterimages, tinnitus, and brain fog; the brain fog is really bad, it feels like my head has been pumped with methane (I don't even know if that's an accurate enough description or analogy for it).

 

Things that have gone:

 

Leg muscle and joint pain have been gone for a month and a half or so, have not come back at all.

 

Neck pain has almost gone.

 

I'm fairly confident that my light sensitivity is improving.

 

I don't feel tired all the time.

 

Derealisation is forever improving.

 

These aren't significant improvements, even reading them back doesn't make me overly hopeful. I guess I'm making 'progress'. My Visual Snow/HPPD still persists,

even a little worse than before. I feel a lot more capable of doing things as a whole, going outside + communicating with people, I'm just in a little rut right now.

 

Thanks,

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

17 minutes ago, Icip said:

I feel a lot more capable of doing things as a whole, going outside + communicating with people, I'm just in a little rut right now.

 

Icip, this is actually a great improvement!  Yes, you may be going through a rough time right now, but you know you can recover over the long term.  The most frustrating part of withdrawal and recovery is "trading" one set of symptoms for another.  Unfortunately, this happens as your nervous system slowly begins to heal.  I went through that as well.  For several weeks, my neck muscles were tight, and then it moved to aggravating an old ab muscle pull, and then my jaw.  I think of it as a "ball" of anxious thoughts and physical symptoms with a tiny hole in it.  The hole slowly lets the symptoms decrease, but just like a ball slowly deflating, its lumpy, and each lump is a symptom.  Eventually the ball will be nice and flat but until then it can be a rough ride down.  Stick with it!

Edited April 30, 2020 by mstimc

[Icip]

@mstimc,

 

Great analogy with the ball! I had leg pain for so long, worse when tired + weakness in my left elbow, then it went to my jaw for two weeks, back to my legs for a short while, and has been in my neck slowly getting better since the announcement of social distancing. Do you have any pains now?

 

I'm happy + confident that some of my symptoms will go - I'm just so scared about my visual symptoms; static on walls + objects in anything but bright lighting, afterimages, double vision which I  either don't notice as much or has gotten better (think/hope it might be the latter), and light sensitivity which i mentioned in my previous post. Tinnitus + brain fog are still there.

 

These have been the more persisting of symptoms, they started a few weeks into withdrawal, maybe earlier as I think I didn't notice them for a while. They definitely did not start whilst on the drugs - i had a two-week period between finishing the drug, and then the start of withdrawal. The challenge is finding someone who has had this go away completely!

 

Thank you for talking to me:) as with every comment sent my way, I'm so appreciative,

 

Icip.

[Icip]

@mstimc,

 

I spy under your name that you're in Portugal! Is that outdated or are you still? How are you finding it?

[mstimc]

10 hours ago, Icip said:

@mstimc,

 

The challenge is finding someone who has had this go away completely!

 

Thank you for talking to me:) as with every comment sent my way, I'm so appreciative,

 

Icip.

 

10 hours ago, Icip said:

@mstimc,

 

I spy under your name that you're in Portugal! Is that outdated or are you still? How are you finding it?

 

Good morning, Icip

 

Yes, we're still in Portugal.  We arrived last September with the intention of travelling in Europe but that's not working out, obviously. ☹️  We were going back to the States for a few weeks next April for our son's graduation from graduate school, but now we may just stay there.

 

Regarding symptoms, all of mine are gone and have been gone for a long time.  In very anxious situations, I still get tightness across my upper chest, but now I regard that as a reminder that I need to do some deep breathing and thought control exercises to get myself back to normal.  An over-sensitized nervous system can cause many different and changing symptoms. Remain confident they will pass, as have some of your other symptoms.  It takes time and self-care, but you will recover.👍 

[Sunnyday]

Hi Icip. I am sometimes pretty inactive on here myself and take time to respond.

Sorry to hear that you seem to be in some kind of wave right now (?). It does sound promising though with the symptoms getting slightly better gradually, I think. But I understand it's still rough to go through. I have hope that your issues with your vision will go away eventually! I never got those issues myself but it does seem like most symptoms go away sooner or later. But I'll admit I don't know much about symptoms regarding vision.

 

Hope you will feel a bit better again soon. Wishing you well, take care.

[LostRunner]

@Icip how is your tinnitus now? Mines started in the last couple of weeks, I've seen a lot of people say they have it and not a lot saying that it's gone 

[Icip]

@mstimc,

 

Hello! So stay there as in live?? How are you finding it compared to the US, I can imagine it’s far different - even compared to the UK; everywhere else just appears so much happier than here.

I’m glad to hear, did you have a window that never closed, or was it a gradual feeling of being better?

 

Icip.

[Icip]

@Sunnyday,

 

Thank you Sunnyday, I hope they’ll go away too - it makes being in withdrawal hard to unnotice.

You too! You’ve helped me a lot, so thank you.

 

Icip.

[Icip]

@LostRunner,

 

Mine was awful at the start, started to get better - but around early - mid March, improvements stopped and it’s been the same since. Sometimes it’s a little worse than other times, but mostly it’s just there. It doesn’t keep me awake anymore, I still hate it.

 

For the people who’ve had their tinnitus go, or vastly reduce - it’s taken awhile + seems to be or be one of their last symptom(s).

 

Sorry I can’t give any reassurances, it’ll more than likely completely go away, as with all symptoms. Private message me if you want to talk about it more, or just post on my thread!!

 

Take care,

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

10 hours ago, Icip said:

@mstimc,

 

Hello! So stay there as in live?? How are you finding it compared to the US, I can imagine it’s far different - even compared to the UK; everywhere else just appears so much happier than here.

I’m glad to hear, did you have a window that never closed, or was it a gradual feeling of being better?

 

Icip.

 

Good Morning

 

Yes, we'd stay in the States when we go back next year.  We're from California and would move back there.  Portugal is indeed very different than the US.  Its barely a third in population of California alone.  The country is beautiful and the people are kind and gracious.  Its much less hectic than southern California so I think people can relax a little more.  But in the end, its not "home".  The United States is bitterly divided politically and the current administration has done an awful job responding to the virus, but its where we came from and its culture is part of who we are.  

 

Like most folks, my recovery was gradual, sometimes imperceptible from day to day.  I'd characterize it as a slow realization that things that bothered me or made me react negatively weren't as intense as they were.  Its almost a backward-looking outlook, if that makes sense.  There were times when I could handle at a situation and compare it to how I would have reacted months before,  and then realized I'd improved, even if I didn't see it at the time.   I don't think many people, if any, just "flip a switch" and feel better in a few days or weeks.  Just as a broken bone heals over time, our central nervous systems need time to stablize and heal.

[Icip]

@mstimc,

 

Aw, I’d love to get away from Britain - France or Belgium seem lovely.

I had that same pattern too for the first few months, everything has seemed to have slowed down substantially since being in withdrawal - other than my physical symptoms going, I’ve not noticed any cognitive improvements, only slight worsening. I’m praying for things to pick up soon though!

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

They will improve, Icip.  It takes time and patience...

[Icip]

Update.

 

Floaters are unnoticeable now, they become a little more so if I don’t sleep very well.

Light sensitivity has slowly been improving.

All other visual and auditory symptoms remain, unchanged.

[Sunnyday]

Hi @Icip improvement can be very slow at times, but it's a good sign that things are still getting better as time goes on, even if it's in a slow pace. 

How is the brain fog? 

[Icip]

Hi @Sunnyday,

 

Nice of you as ever to pop by!

It’s still there, easing I think - my head feels a little less like a brick + a little more free to wander wherever it wants to go.

I slept at 20:00 yesterday, and woke up at 02:30 this morning, I went for an hours walk at around 05:30. I don’t think I’ve ever felt so normal throughout the past eight months. I got out of bed, had a bowl of muesli and some water, watched a little YouTube whilst eating. Barring a morning coffee, it felt incredibly nice and regular.

Though now that I’m back, I think I might have overdid the walk, head feels a little stuffy + tinnitus is a little (a lot) louder than usual. But I’m glad to have had those few precious hours + utilised then to the fullest.

 

How are you? Enjoying any of your hobbies whilst we all have little to do?

 

Icip.

[Icip]

I think what I’m in now, is what you’d call a window, I feel quite free, happy, I’m messaging my friends + it’s easy and enjoyable to do so. I’ve felt awful for the last few days, I had a 24hr headache over my birthday so, I don’t think I’ve had a window for around two months

[mstimc]

1 hour ago, Icip said:

I think what I’m in now, is what you’d call a window, I feel quite free, happy, I’m messaging my friends + it’s easy and enjoyable to do so. I’ve felt awful for the last few days, I had a 24hr headache over my birthday so, I don’t think I’ve had a window for around two months

Great news, Icip!  Let yourself enjoy your window and accept that its okay to feel happy!

[Altostrata]

The importance of recognizing you're feeling good

[Icip]

Thank you @mstimc and @Altostrata,

 

Yesterday felt nice. I find myself sleeping for most of the day normally as I’m tired no matter how much sleep I get, I ended up getting sleepy at around midday but the feeling of being alive, being able to practice my old breakfast routine In the morning, and for it to feel good again; it felt lovely.

I noticed that my visual problems reduced a lot, although tinnitus was as loud as ever. I’m back to feeling a little bad this morning, and visual static looking just as bad. Yesterday gave me hope.

 

Thanks,

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:31 PM, Icip said:

Yesterday gave me hope.

 

That's great, Icip.  Hang onto that feeling when you hit a wave or you start feeling overwhelmed by your symptoms.  Now you know you can recover!

[KenA]

@Icip

Having read through your thread from the beginning I can see that we have a lot in common with our symptoms and recovery. I myself took tramadol for almost a year and then to help with that withdrawal started taking St. John's Wart. After almost 8 years of taking it I was told to C/T stop taking it from a hospital visit for a panic attack. Not knowing any better, I C/T and started having w/d after just a couple of weeks. It has now been almost 9 months since taking anything except Tylenol for Headaches and Claritin for allergies. I have had all of the symptoms you describe plus insomnia and so many more fun ones lol! I would def like to keep in touch with you as we go through this journey of healing and help keep each other positive and getting through this!! 

[Icip]

@KenA,

Hi! Thank you for getting in touch! What other symptoms have you had, and which have gone away? Private message me of you want to, I’ll check out your thread now.

It’s awful that you’ve had this from St. John’s Wort - I’m not too sure what I got from taking it four weeks into withdrawal, it made me feel a little better. Soon after cessation is when the ‘crisis phase’ for me started so I wouldn’t be surprised if I made myself a lot worse through taking it. Awful how it can be sold off the self at a lot of health stores.

[Icip]

Update:

 

I had quite a big panic attack a few days ago, my Dad made me pick up and move a few pieces of lead + it set my health anxiety soaring. I spent a good two days crying and feeling sorry for myself over it, I was scared that I’d breathed in some (which I know I didn’t) even one particle, and that it would have made me stupid, or reduced my IQ.

 

It’s been around four days since that happened, it sent me into a huge wave. Visuals worsened, along with brain fog (didn’t help that I thought/worry that I’ve damaged my brain further). I think that it’s getting better/returning to baseline - I about want to disown my Dad after it, he’s a carpenter + his workshop is in his back garden. I’m forced to see him once a week, there’s always chemicals or something to make me anxious there and I hate it.

 

I didn’t think I could make myself feel so bad through worrying alone.