Icip: Has anyone with these symptoms had them improve, or completely go away?

[Icip]

@mstimc,
 

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0gZ25QaN8SEYVoMiXmNN5wygw
 

here’s an iCloud link if that’s allowed, is just to the single photo. We have a lot of ‘art’ up around the house int hat sort of style, I wanted it to match atleast a little bit. It’s a hanging tree, a tree stump on two little hills, then a very poorly composed river running through the foreground. I really messed up the river

 

Canada Geese in the top left-hand corner too as they’re my favourite animals!

[mstimc]

Good Morning Icip

 

Love the wall art!  I think anything you create and can enjoy is worthy and certainly worth the effort.  Each thing you create is unique to you and that's what makes in invaluable.

 

I have a Bachelor's in Political Science and a Master's in Public Administration.  I spent my professional career in the public service, in the same organization for 30+ years and I loved every minute of it.  I always liked the idea of doing something of service to others, and i found it quite fulfilling.  My only advice is to follow your passion--there's no reason you can't do something you're educated or trained to do and pursue graphic arts as well.   When we get back to the States, I may make small crafts to sell at a local market, not for the money but just for the pleasure of creating.  I've attached a photo of the bookcase--after we moved out.  It was filled with books and some meaningful memorabilia from my family.   It fit in a shallow niche in the wall--perfect space for a bookcase.  The shelves on the left were offset to hold large-format art books.

 

What you're experiencing with OCD is exactly what I went through during WD and recovery.  My therapist called it "scanning"; you're constantly looking for the next catastrophe or problem.  When I was in WD, it was constant fear of losing my job or getting a horrible disease.  Every mistake I made at work would get me fired (never happened).  Looking back, I realize how outlandish my fears were, but at the time they were quite real.  That's the curse of OCD and anxiety--we make our fears into reality.  Fighting it just makes it worse.  The trick is to accept the feelings but not the "reality".  There's a great book called  "Everyday Mindfulness for OCD" by Shala Nicely on Amazon that explains it better than I can.  I know right now it seems like it'll never end, but the fears will fade and lose their power over time.  Try to take pleasure in small things and divert your thoughts, even for a few minutes; you'll find it gets a little easier each time.  Did I ever share my 10-pound (or kilo) theory of anxiety and OCD with you?

 

As for learning the language here, I've pretty much given up except for the basics.  I speak Spanish but Portuguese is so different.  It sounds like a mix of Spanish, Italian and Russian!  Since we're going back to the US at the end of the year, I'm not putting as much effort as I should into learning it, but we are enjoying Portugal while we're here!

 

 

 

[mstimc]

As far as politics, its always fascinated me as well, especially at the federal (national) level in the US.  My two public service heroes are Dr. King and Harry Truman.  Both had differing, but authentic, views of what America should be.  I'm left-leaning but no Marxist either.  I think a well-regulated capitalist economy is great.  Where the US has failed is the "well-regulated" part and in making things equitable.  When I was in college, I worked for a program that recruited students from under-represented populations.  I think education is the key to success in the modern world, and the best way to reduce economic injustice is to make education more accessible for all.  

[mstimc]

Good Morning Icip.

How are you doing?

[Icip]

Hi @mstimc,

 

Sorry for the delayed reply - my head has been all over the place recently. It’s interesting that you’ve given it a name, ‘scanning’, I’ve certainly been doing it constantly for the past two weeks or so, so, giving it a name weirdly helps.

Thank you, re my drawing, I’ve come to like it much more for the colour it brings to my room rather than anything else. I have Protanopia colourblindness, so other than blue, and yellow itself - all colours to me *apparently* look like muddy yellows, which I can sort of see. I’ve got a few of my own photos up too, which I had printed. I never really had a very personal room whilst growing up, I’ve been doing a lot to make it feel more like it’s mine, I’ve bought some smart bulbs which I can turn off and on with my voice, I even have a small tv now! I’ve never liked tv(s), but yeah, it’s quite pleasant actually, being able to relax in my own room, and feel at ‘home’.

 

That shelving looks amazing!!! My Dad is in the trade, and I don’t think I’ve seen him ever make anything like that, it’s so pretty. I don’t think we’d have room for it in our house, most houses in the UK are quite small I think comparatively - I have a couple of shelves in my room, one for books, and rest for lego Star Wars models I’ve been collecting since a child, though I’ve got a load more books at my student house. Do you have enough to fill the bookshelf? What are you thinking of selling at craft fares? As much as it would be a good way to earn some extra money, I can imagine it’s an even better way to get your work seen, less for an advertising-gain, but more in a fulfilling way.

 

Did you interact, and help people directly, or was it more indirect in the way of policy/administration? I don’t suppose you’ve seen the tv show ‘Parks and Recreation’ - it’s not very interesting, nor substantial in the way of entertainment, but it’s light hearted, and positive, and has recently given me something to look forward to (watching it) - it’s set in a small town’s governmental Parks and Recreation department, and it’s really made me want a nice small job like that. The equivalent over here would be in a county council office.

The older I get, the more I want to move to the States, I’m not sure what’s so charming about it, I think it seems quite humble, and yes, even, free, and open. There’s a national park in Wyoming that i’d really like to visit, I’m not sure of the name.

 

A couple of days ago, my Dad lit a fire, the draw wasn’t very good so we got some smoke in the house. I’ve been terrified for the last few days that I inhaled Carbon Monoxide, and that I’ve lost IQ, that I won’t be able to finish university, and that I’m less of a human now, than I was just a week ago - this is what mine centres around; failure, being less of a person, and not being able/fit to finish university. It is exhausting, I’m only just starting to get over the carbon monoxide thing, I’ve worried so much that my head is too tired to think, which makes the idea of brain damage seem even more likely. I’m still panicking about it now - I only stayed in the house after it smoked only a little for around 20 minutes, I went on a four hour walk after to get out of the place. This was at my Dad’s house - which seems to be the root cause of 60% of my worries, I have to go there on Saturdays whilst home as my Mum likes to have a day to herself with just my step-dad.

 

Thank you for the book recommendation, I’ll add it to my reading list! I think you have done, I remember trying it and it helping a lot, though I can’t remember it off the top of my head? For a little while whilst I was a kid, I wanted to be a dj/make electronic music, it didn’t last long though it’s always been in my head as something I’d like to try. I listen to a lot of music, so, again, I’ve always wanted to have a go.

I sat down last night with a 90 day free-trial of a production software - so I’ve been trying to keep myself occupied amidst the thoughts. Knowing that it will pass has been very helpful to me, or the thought of it as it’s one of the few things I can say to myself to self-reassure.

 

Have you lost any of your accent at all? I guess you wouldn’t be able to tel yourself! I’m from the Midlands in England. I’ve been told that I have a Southern accent (which I get from my Mum), the first time I came back from University, which I go to in the North, closer to Scotland, I think my Dad spent the entire week which I was back taking the mick out of my altered dialect (I hadn’t even realised myself! I’ve fixed it all now as I’m not a fan of the Northern accent).

Things like, War-ter, becoming wart-er. One thing that’s ubiquitous across the North, which I’ve resisted, is saying the word ‘like’ after every sentence. It’s really strange! So some of my friends would say, “What are you up to tomorrow like?”, or, “That’s a huge pizza like” - I just don’t understand it, it originates I think from Newcastle, but has made it’s way over to Leeds. There are many more, even a lot worse from Leicester.

 

I’m quite interested in the making of society, the social ladder of economic interests, and whom the ‘system’ serves. Capitalism itself as a system is horribly abstracted from the social aspects of our lives, instead using them for it’s own gain to drive material desire, and greed. Marx is good to understand the relationship between the commodity, and the human/commodity fetishism, the act of an item receiving feelings as if it were another human, from a human. I’ve been trying to navigate my own beliefs, they don’t necessarily fit anywhere. I believe in well-regulated market freedom yes, but also a very large public sector, that produces food, medicines, and any other necessities that are required for the functioning of a state. That the state should act as a service to it’s citizens, and not as rulers, taxes would become a subscription (not by name, but in essence). The goal of the state then would be perfect autonomy. Autonomy as a word, and concept really interests me, in that, I order something on Amazon at 11am, and it arrives same-day at 9pm, the logistics of that, and how human-human interaction and work almost becomes machine-like - the government needs a lot of arms to achieve said autonomy, like a nationalised railway system, and postal service. Along with a large private sector for any services/products that are non-essential, like toys, tv, and technology.

 

How do you feel about a universal basic income? I think it could be a good idea if it were given as food stamps, so that it’s not just money for the sake of money, and more that everyone should have access to good food.

 

I hope you’re okay. Would you ever make a clock, I feel like that would be a nice venture to take, especially with carving each number/numeral out!

 

Icip.

[Icip]

Sorry for writing a book also, reply as you see fit!

[mstimc]

5 hours ago, Icip said:

Sorry for writing a book also, reply as you see fit!

Hi Icip.  No worries--its great therapy to share your thoughts!  We're running errands today so I can respond fully this evening.  but two things

 

1.  If you had carbon monoxide poisoning you're be really sick right away.

 

2.  The national park you're thinking of is Yellowstone.  We've been twice and its is awe-inspiring!  I hope you have a chance tp see it one day.

 

More late!

[mstimc]

10 hours ago, Icip said:

Do you have enough to fill the bookshelf? What are you thinking of selling at craft fares?

We had the bookcase full of books and some valued family heirlooms when we lived there.  I love books and don't like throwing any away, so I had everything from a volume of all of Shakespeare's works to a series on US Presidents from when I was a kid in the 1960's (it ended with LBJ).  I just the look and feel of books as well as the content.

 

10 hours ago, Icip said:

Did you interact, and help people directly, or was it more indirect in the way of policy/administration? I don’t suppose you’ve seen the tv show ‘Parks and Recreation’ -

I was in Public Works as a senior manager of the administration division, so I worked mostly behind the scenes.  But I did my share of customer service (not especially well).  It was quite intellectually creative and challenging, and knowing what I did was for the community good gave it a lot of personal value.

 

10 hours ago, Icip said:

The older I get, the more I want to move to the States, I’m not sure what’s so charming about it, I think it seems quite humble, and yes, even, free, and open

 

Speaking for myself, the US really is home.  We lived in Southern California near Los Angeles but we travelled all over, from Alaska to Tennessee.  Its noisy, chaotic, often messy but there is something special about it.  Over the past few years, the world has seen some of the worst we have to offer, but at our best we rise to the words in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.  My father was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII; he fought as much for the idea of freedom as he did against the Japanese Empire.  For better or worse, being an American is part of my psyche.

10 hours ago, Icip said:

I believe in well-regulated market freedom yes, but also a very large public sector, that produces food, medicines, and any other necessities that are required for the functioning of a state. That the state should act as a service to it’s citizens, and not as rulers, taxes would become a subscription (not by name, but in essence). The goal of the state then would be perfect autonomy.

 

This is a great description of the proper role of government! One of the worst things about the States is that health insurance is tied to your employer (unless you're desperately poor) and run for profit.  The technology is great but the level of care is often lacking and the costs are astronomical.  I really hope Biden offers a public option, as its called in the States.

 

I'm looking forward to getting back into woodworking when we return to the States, and I may make a clock! I like a new challenge.  

 

As for my accent, that depends.  My wife is a Latina immigrant, so I speak Spanish pretty well, albeit with an American accent.  According to our Portuguese friends, I speak Portuguese (the little I know) with a Spanish accent!  As for the US, Californians don't have much of a regional accent, except we tend to flatten some vowel sounds, so we pronounce "for" as "fer".  My father was from southern Missouri; they have a bit of a nasal accent and stress some vowels, so "United States" sounds like "U NITE-D Stets".   Its a heck of a country!

 

Be kind and patient with yourself--healing will come! 

 

 

 

[Icip]

Hi @mstimc,

 

Thank you for the quick note, that's reassured me about CO poisoning - I had no symptoms, but got it into my head that I'd had some sort of damage regardless. It's still in my head a little, but for the most-part, I've had a break from worrying for the past two days; it's felt rather nice. I've only been worrying about an assessment that's due tomorrow night at 23:59! I've largely grown disillusioned with my course, a handful of the modules I've found to be rehashes of modules I'd finished in first year, with even less content. I've done no work for this assignment, I'm just hoping to write it on social theory, and to get away with it (I can fail one module per semester, I've never done that, and I don't want to have to, but working from home, and studying I've found to be rather hard). I just want to get my degree out of the way if I'm being honest, and to start living.

 

What was the series about US Presidents about? Biographies, their time in office, or?.. I'm the same with books, I'm quite bad with buying books, then never getting around to reading them - I'm trying to be a bit more stringent with myself. A lot of my politics theory books have only been partially read, I keep them around to flick through when I need an idea/reference. Not how I'd want to be using them. One of my favourites that I've used for this, and have been meaning to get around to sinking my nose into properly is 'The Clash of Civilizations - and the Remaking of World Order', by Henry Kissinger - it's generally regarded as a very 'important' piece on the future of world politics, it was written as a theory in the late 80s/early 90s, though is gradually coming true. I picked it up randomly at my local bookstore three or so years ago not realising how relevant I'd find it towards my degree. Just a shame I've never taken the time to appreciate it fully.

 

Oh wow, I can see why you'd like that. It sounds like job where you could make it your own? I'd love a job in government when older, at any level. The civil service had always appealed to me, you defacto run the country for the Ministers, and don't change when the Prime Minister/Party changes - you're forced into political impartiality. Our top civil servant died quite recently, he'd been head of the civil service since I think the early 2000s, or might have been installed into the position by David Cameron, I'm not so sure, but he'd been in government since Thatcher, most Prime Minister have described him as invaluable. Most people I hear from who've worked in the government, our government at least, have said how they love it, guess there's few jobs as fulfilling as it. Working to keep your country going like it's a starter dough, needing to be fed. There's a very good British political satire that you might enjoy, it's called, 'The Thick of It', from the BBC. It's set around the early Blair era, all the way up to when the coalition between the Conservatives, and Liberal Democrats got into power (it predicted that actually), it's very sweary might I warn, but having studied UK governance, it's actually quite accurate in it's portrayal of how our government works even at a national level; incompetence, media-doctoring, and the stagnation of policy implementation at the expense of image.

 

That's something a lot of people here in the UK struggle to understand about America - the mentality of 'being American'. There's very few 'proud British' people here, if there are, they only call themselves that as a way to say how rubbish we've become, as most people glory our more militaristic past, and days of empire. Most other countries Eem better than the UK to me, years of social spend cutting, has noticeably deteriorated the place into something quite miserable. When I was five or seven, we had very noticeable infrastructure developments, especially in my home city of Leicester where almost the entire centre was redeveloped. Fast forward to now, we've had nothing of the sort, and a lot of that development has gone into disarray because of a lack of public (which initially kick-started said development), and now private investment, as most historical high-street vendors are withdrawing from the high street. There are some beautiful places across Britain, though I prefer France personally, or Belgium. Ypres is amazing.

 

Let me know how the wood-work goes! That will be nice to hear about!

 

I'm not so sure that we ever notice the nuances of another country's dialect, and accent. I find it interesting listening to Bernie Sanders, then to current New Yorkers - the difference in the accent is very cool to distinguish between, whilst equally quite sad as I like the New York accent!

 

I feel pretty good actually, I still have all of my vision problems, which bring a lot of neurological symptoms along with it, like brain fog. But, for the most part, I feel okay. I'm still sensitive to a lot of things, and can still crash my system easily and have a mini wave. I just don't feel so far off being okay again. I'm just waiting on the static in my vision, tinnitus, after images, and some brain fog that worsens on, and off. So to you, and to everyone on my thread, and from this site who has helped me, listened to me, and spoken to me through the way, thank you. I'm not there yet, but I don't feel so far away.

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

When I was finishing my Master's degree in the mid-80's, I too was about at the end of my rope.   I'd been in college (undergrad and graduate school) for almost seven years and wanted to get on with my life.  I got a "C" grade in an otherwise easy statistics class; the professor offered to give me an "incomplete" for the semester and let me re-do the course to get a higher grade, but I took the C just to get it over with.

 

Our son is in the same boat; he's in his last semester for his Master's and remote learning is getting to him.  He wants to get on with his career.  He took an educational leave of absence from the City of Los Angeles  to get his Master's and may go back, but he's hoping for a position with a federal (national government) agency.  

 

Hang in there--your degree will pay off in the long run!  

 

And so glad to hear you're doing okay!  All of these struggles will be worth it and will be distant memories before you know it.

[xero]

On 3/18/2021 at 4:44 PM, Icip said:

Hi @mstimc,

 

Thank you for the quick note, that's reassured me about CO poisoning - I had no symptoms, but got it into my head that I'd had some sort of damage regardless. It's still in my head a little, but for the most-part, I've had a break from worrying for the past two days; it's felt rather nice. I've only been worrying about an assessment that's due tomorrow night at 23:59! I've largely grown disillusioned with my course, a handful of the modules I've found to be rehashes of modules I'd finished in first year, with even less content. I've done no work for this assignment, I'm just hoping to write it on social theory, and to get away with it (I can fail one module per semester, I've never done that, and I don't want to have to, but working from home, and studying I've found to be rather hard). I just want to get my degree out of the way if I'm being honest, and to start living.

 

What was the series about US Presidents about? Biographies, their time in office, or?.. I'm the same with books, I'm quite bad with buying books, then never getting around to reading them - I'm trying to be a bit more stringent with myself. A lot of my politics theory books have only been partially read, I keep them around to flick through when I need an idea/reference. Not how I'd want to be using them. One of my favourites that I've used for this, and have been meaning to get around to sinking my nose into properly is 'The Clash of Civilizations - and the Remaking of World Order', by Henry Kissinger - it's generally regarded as a very 'important' piece on the future of world politics, it was written as a theory in the late 80s/early 90s, though is gradually coming true. I picked it up randomly at my local bookstore three or so years ago not realising how relevant I'd find it towards my degree. Just a shame I've never taken the time to appreciate it fully.

 

Oh wow, I can see why you'd like that. It sounds like job where you could make it your own? I'd love a job in government when older, at any level. The civil service had always appealed to me, you defacto run the country for the Ministers, and don't change when the Prime Minister/Party changes - you're forced into political impartiality. Our top civil servant died quite recently, he'd been head of the civil service since I think the early 2000s, or might have been installed into the position by David Cameron, I'm not so sure, but he'd been in government since Thatcher, most Prime Minister have described him as invaluable. Most people I hear from who've worked in the government, our government at least, have said how they love it, guess there's few jobs as fulfilling as it. Working to keep your country going like it's a starter dough, needing to be fed. There's a very good British political satire that you might enjoy, it's called, 'The Thick of It', from the BBC. It's set around the early Blair era, all the way up to when the coalition between the Conservatives, and Liberal Democrats got into power (it predicted that actually), it's very sweary might I warn, but having studied UK governance, it's actually quite accurate in it's portrayal of how our government works even at a national level; incompetence, media-doctoring, and the stagnation of policy implementation at the expense of image.

 

That's something a lot of people here in the UK struggle to understand about America - the mentality of 'being American'. There's very few 'proud British' people here, if there are, they only call themselves that as a way to say how rubbish we've become, as most people glory our more militaristic past, and days of empire. Most other countries Eem better than the UK to me, years of social spend cutting, has noticeably deteriorated the place into something quite miserable. When I was five or seven, we had very noticeable infrastructure developments, especially in my home city of Leicester where almost the entire centre was redeveloped. Fast forward to now, we've had nothing of the sort, and a lot of that development has gone into disarray because of a lack of public (which initially kick-started said development), and now private investment, as most historical high-street vendors are withdrawing from the high street. There are some beautiful places across Britain, though I prefer France personally, or Belgium. Ypres is amazing.

 

Let me know how the wood-work goes! That will be nice to hear about!

 

I'm not so sure that we ever notice the nuances of another country's dialect, and accent. I find it interesting listening to Bernie Sanders, then to current New Yorkers - the difference in the accent is very cool to distinguish between, whilst equally quite sad as I like the New York accent!

 

I feel pretty good actually, I still have all of my vision problems, which bring a lot of neurological symptoms along with it, like brain fog. But, for the most part, I feel okay. I'm still sensitive to a lot of things, and can still crash my system easily and have a mini wave. I just don't feel so far off being okay again. I'm just waiting on the static in my vision, tinnitus, after images, and some brain fog that worsens on, and off. So to you, and to everyone on my thread, and from this site who has helped me, listened to me, and spoken to me through the way, thank you. I'm not there yet, but I don't feel so far away.

 

Icip.

what exactly are your visual symptoms @Icip? I went CT off trazodone & hydroxyzine last november after a short use (19 days) 

like clockwork i came down w/ a handful of visual symptoms. 

the one i hate the most is a very persistent vibrating around my center vision. it's like an altered pattern glare effect where lines, lettering and some times certain lighting will vibrate or flicker. 

i got so many other symptoms that i could list but this one is making my life hell.

it's been 4 months since these disturbances have occurred and nothing has changed. 

[Icip]

Hey @xero, I have that too - for me it’s like a little pixelated worm swinging about in the centre of my vision. I have quite bad visual snow, noticeable negative and positive afterimages, double vision in both eyes, impaired night sight, tinnitus (which is a cohabitating symptom), changes in colour perception (this has gotten better, but when tired things still look washed out), sometimes I get random things flashing into my vision, like a black spot, or a flash of blue pixels

Do you get general pattern glare? I have a pair of stripey trousers that send my eyes nuts

i get the flickering lines thingy if I haven’t had enough sleep, it’s noticeable with red especially for me

 

That was always the same as me - I could’ve managed my other symptoms better if I wasn’t constantly reminded of how ill I was just by looking anywhere around me. It’s really the only thing I have left now. Has nothing changed at all, what other visual disturbances do you have? Feel free to message me if you wanna talk about it! It’s hard, but for most it goes away - it’s just one of the few symptoms of antidepressant adverse events, or withdrawal that can take a year or two to go. I’ve heard of lots who’ve had it abate

[Icip]

Thank you @mstimc, it sounds like public work runs in your family! A job in a local council has been seeming ever the more enticing recently - I’m not very fussed about making money, just stability, and being happy.

 

I’ve been reading back lots of old messages I’d sent to friends before I got ill, and I’m not happy with who I was, I’m not happy with my hat my priorities were, and how I conducted myself. So as horrid as this experience has been, as long as I come out okay at the other end, I think this feels like something that was meant to happen. Just in how it’s changed me, and my outlook on life a little for the better.

 

Again, thanks Tim! Let me know how your woodwork goes once you’re back in the states! I hope your son finds his way too, and does well.

 

Icip.

[xero]

12 hours ago, Icip said:

Hey @xero, I have that too - for me it’s like a little pixelated worm swinging about in the centre of my vision. I have quite bad visual snow, noticeable negative and positive afterimages, double vision in both eyes, impaired night sight, tinnitus (which is a cohabitating symptom), changes in colour perception (this has gotten better, but when tired things still look washed out), sometimes I get random things flashing into my vision, like a black spot, or a flash of blue pixels

Do you get general pattern glare? I have a pair of stripey trousers that send my eyes nuts

i get the flickering lines thingy if I haven’t had enough sleep, it’s noticeable with red especially for me

 

That was always the same as me - I could’ve managed my other symptoms better if I wasn’t constantly reminded of how ill I was just by looking anywhere around me. It’s really the only thing I have left now. Has nothing changed at all, what other visual disturbances do you have? Feel free to message me if you wanna talk about it! It’s hard, but for most it goes away - it’s just one of the few symptoms of antidepressant adverse events, or withdrawal that can take a year or two to go. I’ve heard of lots who’ve had it abate

@Icip

My biggest issue is just the vibrating around my center vision. I can't read white text on a black background or bold text without the letters wiggling in certain parts. This is very persistent. It's not just when i don't rest well or eat a certain food. It's all day everyday. Even shelves at a grocery store vibrate in their own way. The interesting thing is when i got off the AD in November i got other symptoms of withdrawal like needle like sensations on my feet and hands, intense palpations, rebound insomnia, hypnic jerks, and sudden feelings of heat in certain parts of my body mainly my arms. I've always had tinnitus before the medication and it was something that was manageable for years. But when i started the meds i noticed the pitch became so much louder and persistent throughout the day and it was never that way before. It was one of the first signs that these disgusting pills were doing something to my brain.   Most of those symptoms are like 90% gone tbh I just wish that were the case w/ my vision. With my vision i got strong BFEP on most grey and white surfaces , many dark floaters in both eyes, flickering in my vision w/ certain light conditions and when i blink and look up, vibration in my peripheral, longer after image time, my eyes also react very strangely to CRT televisions now and it never happened before. Like my eyes detect the flicker rate from the TV/monitor in a way that it never did before. Especially when it comes to lines. As for the pattern glare i still want to investigate whether it's actual pattern glare or not. When i look at lines or any repeated patterns most the time they do bother me but it doesn't cause a headache or vertigo. I used to think for a while the vibrating lines and patterns were your typical pattern glare but after a while it didn't seem like it because the vibrations and vague movements were happening with text and even solid surfaces. Basically anything that formed uniform lines whether it was horizontal or vertical. Another funny thing that happens is that if i cover one eye in a lot of these cases the effects are pretty much non existent. The only time the eye trick didn't work was when looking at a CRT which is even more confusing and discouraging because it leads me to believe my brains ability to process light and other things has been jacked up. I know what you mean by being reminded constantly about this mess and how it's robbed me of my charisma. These pills  actually gave me depression and a feeling of hopelessness like i never imagined. I really hope w/ time there is healing and i have heard of others vision improve after a while but i feel so unlucky and think this is permanent. I've noticed 0 changes to it and it's about to be 5 months since i CT. I never took any other meds before this either. I will mention that in sept before i was ever prescribed the pills i quit using cannabis after 5+ yrs and in the past i did use some psychedelics but never really abused them and the times i did them were spaced out. I never did them monthly or weekly and i can even count on one hand how many times ive used them. years apart. I always felt like i had a very light case of hppd because of that but it was something that was VERY hard to notice and NEVER bothered me. I had to look very hard for the visuals to even happen and it wasn't what i have now. Just the typical walls breathing stuff. nothing else. Basically before the meds i noticed not a single floater, had 0 issues w/ my peripheral vision and my BFEP was normal like most ppl w/ it being exclusive to the blue sky. It didn't even happen very often either. I feel like the ADs just tipped my brain into overdrive and nothing has been the same since. I feel so dumb for doing this and i only did them for 20 days 😕 

I'm glad i don't actually have V snow like some others do but i have every other symptoms that ppl w/ VSS have and life has never been so difficult. 

Thx for reading if you got this far. My inbox is open as well if you wanna chat anytime. 

[Icip]

@xero,

 

First off, K.K. slider always scared me as a kid, I was always more friendly with Redd.

 

Second, five months isn’t a very long time as far as reactions go, the ‘usual’ time of cessation is usually 0-18 months, I’ve read about a lot of people’s symptoms going away within that time frame - so don’t worry about it yet.

 

Funnily enough with HPPD, people only get it if they’ve mixed weed with whatever hallucinogenic gave it to them - there was a pill about it on r/HPPD (Reddit). I don’t think the two would be related for you though, you brain would’ve flushed out + fixed any cannabis-related changes by then. Did it make you more susceptible, maybe. But messing around with my meds did the same to me, alcohol too.

 

My vision does flicker and vibrate - just not as badly as yours. In cases without static, they almost always go away, I’ve never seen anyone with your symptoms have theirs persist for very long at all, so just wait, stay completely and absolutely sober, and you’ll hopefully be okay. I felt pretty giddy on my meds, it felt more like a ‘high’ than anything I could describe as being sustainable.

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

On 3/25/2021 at 7:16 PM, Icip said:

Just in how it’s changed me, and my outlook on life a little for the better.

 

I find I'm a lot more empathetic than I used to be.  I can identify with peoples' suffering, whether its WD or economic or political.  And once I made it to recovery, I found I could recognize anxious people just by talking to them, and sometimes help them.  Maybe that's one the reasons I dealt with what I had to go through, too.

[xero]

19 hours ago, Icip said:

@xero,

 

First off, K.K. slider always scared me as a kid, I was always more friendly with Redd.

 

Second, five months isn’t a very long time as far as reactions go, the ‘usual’ time of cessation is usually 0-18 months, I’ve read about a lot of people’s symptoms going away within that time frame - so don’t worry about it yet.

 

Funnily enough with HPPD, people only get it if they’ve mixed weed with whatever hallucinogenic gave it to them - there was a pill about it on r/HPPD (Reddit). I don’t think the two would be related for you though, you brain would’ve flushed out + fixed any cannabis-related changes by then. Did it make you more susceptible, maybe. But messing around with my meds did the same to me, alcohol too.

 

My vision does flicker and vibrate - just not as badly as yours. In cases without static, they almost always go away, I’ve never seen anyone with your symptoms have theirs persist for very long at all, so just wait, stay completely and absolutely sober, and you’ll hopefully be okay. I felt pretty giddy on my meds, it felt more like a ‘high’ than anything I could describe as being sustainable.

 

Icip.

@Icip I really hope you're right mate 

maybe a year or two from now i'll have a way different outlook on this and who knows maybe some of these symptoms will subside.

I really hope this isn't some permanent damage or anything. I've been clean for 6 months now w/ the exception of some drinking i did last week on vacation but before that i didn't drink for about a year. I plan on staying clean and adjusting my life and attitude to this garbage. 

 

I will try and do a little more investigating this year because i've talked to my ophthalmologist & retinal specialist and my eyes look normal from what they can tell. 

I have an appointment w/ a neuro ophthalmologist this month so he can do whatever tests i haven't done w/ the other DRs and so he can take a look at my brain MRI that i did in Dec. 

I'm not expecting a miracle or anything but i'm just doing the best i can  to advocate for my health and investigate. I might even try to get some vestibular testing and if possible ask other specialists to see if vest. vision therapy might help but honestly i'm also preparing to just adjust to this one day. As much as i think it can be vestibular i also think its way deeper than that because of how my eyes pick up light and cause it flicker around my peripheral. 

[Icip]

@mstimc, that’s lovely - I think you have to go through things to be able to understand them. The most open, and caring person in the world would still fail to empathise with antidepressant withdrawal; even now I can’t describe how I was at my worst, it feels like it never happened

 

I had my COVID jab yesterday, AstraZeneca - they had surplus at the gp across the road from me, my step-mum’s friend who works there called us, n we went over. I can honestly say though, I have felt like I’m dying, I could feel all of my bodily systems shutting down, was hard to breathe, horrid headache, lymph node pain, all over body aches and weakness. Just a feeling of dying, that’s as close as I can make to it with my words. I’m young so if anybody here is reading this, I’ve had this reaction as I’ve probably had it before without realising, and I have a good immune system - most people are fine after vaccination, especially above 30. My step-mum had it, she’s 45, and she’s just had a thickly throat today. I’m glad that I’ve had it, and glad that I can have safe and controlled symptoms that won’t worsen, unlike catching covid symptomatically.

 

Long COVID is an autoimmune disorder, where the body keeps attacking healthy cells once covid leaves the body. Adverse reactions I believe are autoimmune, or are atleast related, so I’d advise everyone reading this to have their jab! Whether or not I’ve had it asymptomatically before, the last thing I and I think anyone here wants is a worsening of fatigue/addition of respiratory symptoms. If this sounds a little preachy I’m currently feeling like I’ve been hit by a car twice, and like I have the worst hangover ever at the same time. Again, fully worth it!

I had the AstraZeneca vaccine from my native UK, 95% of my family have had the same one, and had little to no symptoms the day after, or ever. Just slight malaise

[Icip]

@xero, stay away from drinking!! Alcohol affects me the most, but it is different for others.

 

You’ll return to your previous state of being, sure! It just takes time and a little hope. That time can be a while, but our brains will never keep us feeling bad, they want us to feel good so we can survive and pass on half of our genetic code. The brain is a slow, yet wonderful healer - it doesn’t want to mess up, add onto that our daily lives. I’ve seen this analogy before, but it’s like doing construction in a building that’s being used - you have to be careful, and work around things!!

[Icip]

Update:

 

I'm mostly fine, I have sensitivities to a lot of chemicals. Some anti-perspirants will give me really bad brain fog for a few days, and caffeine has varying effects; the more I drink over the span of a month or so, the worse the effects become (obviouslyyyyy).

 

I'm starting to realise the breath of which the hit my cognition, and regular mental functioning took after my reaction. I still really struggle to focus, and with mental clarity - it feels a lot like my head is full, so there's no room for anything else to take place, a constant fullness - it just so happens to simultaneously feel empty right now too! I'm struggling with university work.

 

I'm going to look into buying some Mitoq, a supplement which I've been told helps a lot with cognition. I'm already taking quite a strong multivitamin, I seem to be able to process them fine now, and PQQ, Pyloquinone? I think is it's full name. I've noticed my energy levels up themselves whenever I consistently take it for a while.

 

Whilst I feel okay, I still feel very broken. There's a long way to go, and with each month or so my outlook becomes a little brighter. I've only just started thinking about my future again, through my illness, I've come to enjoy photography, though I've met in the middle and I've really started enjoying politics again, and getting weirdly excited about a graduate placement with my city's council! I've got two assessments due in two days, I'm really finding that I can't do them, I've tried with a 2500-word essay, but it feels like nothing is coming out of my brain. That's scary.

 

Hopefully it can get better, I think this is just a little wave. I think I'm starting to see some improvement in my visual static too, I've not seen any for two-thirds of a year now, I might just be imagining things though.

 

If anyone has any stories of their concentration/focus getting better after a long time, I'd love to hear them. It might be brain fog, I'm not terribly sure. I had really bad Parkinsonism at the start of my reaction, it used to physically hurt my brain to think, for months my inner voice disappeared, then when it started to come back - it sounded weak, I could only really make observations, no real thoughts, or anything beyond, "that table is yellow".

My cognition got quite okay, it seems to have started to worsen again, post-Christmas. All whilst I'm feeling more human, and alive.

 

I'm quite looking forward to the day when I can say that I'm fully ok, that I'm healed. I want to do so once I've finished university, I'm happy, and have a little apartment somewhere with one of my friends. Because, I think that's a good way to show that you can heal from this, for anyone stopping by my thread.

 

God bless everyone,

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

Hi ICIP

Just a comment about cognition.  I've read the Latin root is "to choke".  Anxiety is trying to choke your normal thought habits and patterns because it wants all the attention.  It sounds like you're doing a good job of keeping things in perspective even through your challenges.  And we can always use dedicated folks for the public service!

[Icip]

@mstimc,

 

It might be anxiety. Sometimes when I have brain fog after a more ‘manic’ episode of anxiety, I can sorta of feel the uneasiness in my brain; I feel like I’m losing control, and I just feel a little unstable from it.

I have that right now, it usually passes after a few weeks. I’ve always wondered if I have bipolar, just before this came on I was really really low. That’s usually the pattern of how it goes for me.

 

It’s either just my normal mood changing, or it’s a side effect from my covid shot? I’m pretty sensitive to inflammation, and have been especially since my reaction - I try to stay away from certain foods, and all as they trigger brain fog. As it takes around three weeks for the first dose to settle in to our systems + for our immune systems to come close to calming down again, I’m hoping it just my immune system is riled up, and the subsequent inflammation is making me feel a little wheezy. I’m going to call 111 soon and ask about it
 

Blood clots are an autoimmune reaction, just as an adverse reaction, so I’m a bit weary as I had the AZ vaccine

[Icip]

Observation: i feel high all the time? Atleast when talking to other people, like I’m light headed + can’t focus on reality. I think that’s derealisation; nothing feels real. An accompanying symptom of Visual Snow Syndrome n probably my least favourite of it

 

My vision is completely blurred, like everything is blurred, not just long distances or short//like I can’t focus on anything

[Icip]

These posts are slowly starting to become the scrawlings of a mad man

 

With each day I’m noticing how disconnected I am from others, how ‘out of sync’ I feel with life, like I’m constantly intoxicated and unable to connect with the real world, and stuck in my own head. I’m either only just noticing this, I’m in a wave, or I am just going mad; I’m not sure. If this is a wave then that’d be interesting. It’s not really a case of depression, I’ve been far more depressed and that’s really when I feel most connected, my thoughts feel busy, my head feels busy, and full. I haven’t had coffee for a while so maybe it’s that - I have had headaches for the past few days n I always used to feel caffeine withdrawals intensely. However insane I sound I’m gonna keep posting

 

I feel more disconnected now than ever, usually I get that through depersonalisation, but this feels exclusively like derealisation. Maybe it’s the other way round

 

I haven’t taken any drugs, pharma nor illegal, no alcohol, no msg or anything that could trigger a bad feeling like this. It could be anxiety? I’ve found out a few things about my family through the past few days that has unsettled me a little, so much that I don’t want to be in my house/home anymore, and I don’t have anywhere else to go. So it could be my subconscious going nuts too.

I’m okay, I just feel high constantly, like i’ll say things to my friends without thinking, I can’t think straight etc

It started when I found the stuff out about my family, so it’s probably just that

[mstimc]

Hi ICIP

 

I've had the same experience with derealization; I think you're correct that its related to anxiety.  Anxiety wants all of our attention all of the time--its the only way it can survive.  When you're focused on something else--friends, work, art, being outdoors, etc., anxiety tries to grab you by disengaging your attention from the present moment and refocusing on it.  And the more you fight it or try to think your way through it, the stronger it gets because of the attention.  

 

It sounds like you're dealing with some  serious family issues right now, and that's just exacerbating your anxiety.  I won't presume to give you advice on personal family issues, but try to separate them from your anxious thinking, and deal with the reality of your situation.  Try to think in terms of what you'd tell a close friend in the same situation, without the overlay of anxious and catastrophic thinking.  I know its tough, but you can do it and you will recover.

[mstimc]

And no, you're not going mad.  Your posts are articulate and its clear you know--intellectually--what you're going through.  You know something is "wrong" with your thought patterns.  Crazy people can't tell the difference. 

[Icip]

@mstimc,

 

Thank you, that's really reassuring to hear. I will try to do so, and I've been trying to remind myself that it's just anxiety, and that, "It's okay", self soothing has never been a strength of mine but in this case it has been helping. I crashed emotionally two nights ago, then yesterday I was mentally flatlined and exhausted, I've felt better today, and that's normally the pattern of this; I lose control (mentally) for a few days, I can't really concentrate during this time, I can't relax, I rant to my friends, I just feel uncomfortable everywhere and anywhere//I just want to run away. But I feel better today, more grounded. I've been trying to alleviate some of my OCD triggers, these are what normally sets me off, when my routine, and compulsions sort of implode. Like if I try to keep my carpet clean so that I don't get things stuck in my head about dirt, or contamination, then someone walks on my carpet in boots - this is what triggered this hahahaha, I then can't walk on my own carpet with bare feet, there's nowhere 'safe' and 'clean' in my entire house, I can't relax, I can't sit down, and it all spirals from there. This is the worst that my OCD has ever been, it was always there in the background but this, and I presume lockdown has really let it into the forefront, I've also read that this is just a part of recovering from adverse reactions, the increased anxiety. It really is unbearable. I'm just waiting till I can move into my new student home, I'm with two of my best friends who I know well and love, and it's an actual house rather than a flat, so I'm hoping that there won't be any drug rampaged neighbours next to us then!

 

Thank you as ever, you really really help a lot!

 

Icip.

[Icip]

Little Update:

 

I've just taken an ibuprofen for the first time since I took my medication. I used to eat them like sweets as they used to really help in the past with anxiety-induced brain fog when I didn't used to have it constantly. I felt quite good for a few minutes, and now I'm starting to feel a little off? It was like the fog cleared for a bit, and it still does feel quite clear now, I just feel an air of 'weirdness' to my senses. A little worried as a small lesion/sore rash appeared on my right hand, and has now gone

[mstimc]

Have you heard of Exposure-Response-Prevention for OCD?  Its an offshoot of CBT that teaches us to confront, in small "bites", our obsessions and not respond with a compulsion.  One coping method is to use the "So What" game.  You think about your obsession, catastrophize it, and then ask "So what?".  So what if my carpet is a bit dirty and I don't vacuum right away? Has anyone really got sick and died from a slightly dirty carpet?  Our son lived with four roommates in college in a two-bedroom apartment and the living conditions were decidedly less than a model of cleanliness.  And he never got sick.

 

Another thing to consider....even with severe OCD, you don't obsess over 99% of your life.  There are so many things we just take for granted and never think about, yet OCD latches on to the most arcane things and tries to make you respond.  Its ok to cut yourself some slack and not act on an obsession.  I'm having to remind myself of that lately as well.  Our son was a couple hours later than usual with his weekly call today (grad school finals) and I was beginning to envision terrible things--then he called.  He overslept and is working on his finals.  So it can hit all of us--we're all in this together!

 

 

[Icip]

I have heard of that - I’ve been trying it where applicable, I’ve not wanted to go too far with it as I imagine if I did something and told myself it was fine, I worry that I’d later go back on that and worry about it. With big things it usually sticks in my head too, it doesn’t go away no matter what I think. To get over things I need to be in a good headspace - my parents have been away for a couple days now and I’ve been alone, it’s let me reset a little bit. I’m in a better place now, but I’m just so mentally fatigued, the derealisation and manic feeling have gone away mostly. I still have the ‘brain dead’ feeling, not being able to think almost at all, memory is rubbish, cog fog. I’ve been doing some reading today and I think the damage I’ve had has been done to my thalamus, the region that controls + translates information coming from our sensory organs, to their relevant processing centres. If that’s impaired then info can’t readily travel between regions, and I’ve read that it’s the cause of my eyesight problems. It’s a little reassuring, tho equally scary, as the thalamus is right inside the brain, it’s probably the most complex part of it all, I just feel a million miles away from being okay. The rest of me is fine now, it’s just this big blockage to the tunnel.

 

Aw I hope it’s going okay for your son? I can imagine that he’s stress, I always oversleep when I have a lot of work to do. I never understood why my mother worries so much until I had my first girlfriend, it was a less than ideal situation, but even after a moment where she wasn’t very nice to me, I’d always take time to make sure she was okay, annoyingly I think on her end as she still would be in a bad mood with me.

The catastrophisation that comes along with anxiety disorders really isn’t very nice, especially as no one else ever understands

[mstimc]

Our son is doing fine--thanks for asking!

 

17 hours ago, Icip said:

The catastrophisation that comes along with anxiety disorders really isn’t very nice, especially as no one else ever understands

Well, there are a lot of people here who understand what you're going through--many of us have dealt with it ourselves.  You will reocver!

[Icip]

I do hope so @mstimc, it is frustrating feeling so close, yet still so far

[Icip]

Update: my anxiety has been going nuts recently as has probably been noticeable through my thread. Had bouts of derealisation which have been new to this year I think, that have persisted upwards of a week each time. Has not been terribly pleasant. They started around the time which I reintroduced coffee to my diet, cutting coffee again as I don’t think I’m ready yet//it never did much for my mental health anyway.

 

Icip.

[mstimc]

Hi Icip

 

I think, if you check other members' threads, you'll find many of us are dealing with increased anxiety and related symptoms.  I really believe the current situation with COVID is contributing to an overall increase in anxiety, and those of us with more sensitive systems are especially affected by it.  I recently read an article about therapists who are feeling the effects because they can't read their patients' body language on a Zoom session.   I've been doing a lot of mindfulness and other self-compassion exercises to keep my anxiety and OCD manageable.  Keep coming here for support--we'll all get through this together!

[Icip]

I suppose I should really be reading other threads more! For me personally I think it’s a result of being stuck with my family, not really being able to escape to friend’s houses etc. It’s funny how anxiety really is just an increased attunement to the world, and nature, yet it’s called a disorder. I have a friend who never worries about anything, he’s not sensitive in any way shape or form, is on a placement year working a 9-5 job, gets on with it and really enjoys it, drinks beer every night and never complains about anything. That to me is weirder than worrying about everything, though I’m sure he’d say the same about how he views me

 

I’d prefer to worry than to not. I got a new bike a few days ago for my birthday, an old Peugeot racing bike, I’ve been out on it loads, just done a seven mile or so cycle. Weirdly enough having not cycled for around three years, or having done no vigorous exercise really since my reaction - it was nice, my legs are a little weak but I don’t feel bad at all. When I’ve tried before, my vision usually goes blurry, I get really bad cog fog, and just from having done no exercise I ache all over. But yea, fine! A marked improvement from when I tried to run half a year ago

[Icip]

Update:

 

Consistent bad derealisation, I've not caught a break for weeks now as I’m still home with my family, and don’t have anywhere else to go. I’ve got another two months of this until I can move into my new student home. Even when it was better last week, i’ve always had a slight disconnect; it’s never gone away fully. The difference now compared to if I had this last year - I know and am confident that this will pass, and it’s purely causal. Maybe a bit of a wave mixed in