Jt003: Zyprexa, Seroquel and Klonopin

[Jt003]

Hello!

 

Just discovered this forum recently.  It has been an eye opener in how to get off psychiatric medications.   Wish I knew about this in the beginning!  

 

I have been struggling with anxiety since I was young.  Anxiety use to be nothing to me and as an anxious person, it kept me focused and in the moment. I always exercise and try to eat healthy.  Im 35 years old.  In the last few years, my anxiety has become different.  I can say it also has been a stressful last few years with life changes and feeling more weight on my shoulder.  One time during late 2016, I experienced what may have been an anxiety or panic attack (sweating, heart racing, racing thoughts, feeling impending doom, etc), then just feeling unusual and uncomfortable being in different places, waking up suddenly gasping for air with my heart racing, and head pressures everyday.  I went to a doctor and everything was normal.  She said to try zoloft.  Im not someone that likes taking medication everyday.  So I rejected her offer to try zoloft. Afterwards, I saw a psychiatrist and from what I told her, she diagnosed me with generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder.  She wanted me on Klonopin and Lexapro.  I also did not go through with the med recommendations.   I thought with time and just keeping busy, these symptoms would go away.  With time, I was sorta getting better.  But I was still dealing with daily head pressures, waking up gasping for air, heart racing at night and being in places where there is alot of movement going on (big crowds).  

 

In 2018, I went to see a neurologist for the head pressures and anxiety.   She prescribed me Elavil for two months.  I thought that Elavil was not like the other medication types that were mentioned a year ago by my doctor and other psychiatrist.  So I went ahead and tried Elavil at 10 mg everyday for two months.  During those two months, I felt relief from daily head pressures but still was dealing with gasping for air at night and heart racing at times. My neurologist said its ok to stop Elavil after two months so I stopped it.  I dont think I felt any withdrawals or any different after stopping Elavil.  

 

However, it wasnt until after about 3 months I stopped that things went totally off.  It started with sleep.  One night, i couldnt fall asleep and didnt have that strong feeling of tiredness or deep sleep that I usually do.  My anxiety was heightened because of the fear of not sleeping and not having that feeling of deep sleep.  However, I did have nights afterwards where I could sleep but only a few hours but I wasnt able to do a full 8 hrs.  So I guess I had fragmented sleep following that night.  I believe my anxiety went to another level.  Watching tv felt strange, I had ringing in my ears, and my heart would race when I was driving at times on the road.  

 

After work one time, I became desperate for sleeping normal again that i saw a different psychiatrist.  He diagnosed me as bipolar and put me on zyprexa (5 mg) and klonopin (0.50mg) to begin with.  I told him I wasnt bipolar and just had anxiety issues.   Anyways, I went ahead and took the zyprexa and was able to get alot of sleep on it.  After a month on zyprexa, I tried stopping it abruptly.  Bad choice.  I could sleep for days and my anxiety got so bad. I ended up back on zyprexa and taking klonopin daily.  

 

In the start of 2019, I switched psychiatrists and went to another one thinking I can get off the meds and be back to my normal self.  This new psychiatrist diagnosed me with GAD and panic disorder.  She said I was on the wrong meds and to try a third med lexapro on top of the other two meds zyprexa and klonopin.  I did lexapro for a week starting at 5 mg but had a manic episode on it so I stopped it after a week.  Afterwards, she said to try zoloft.  I did zoloft at 25 mg for a week but didnt feel comfortable being on a third med so I stopped it.

 

For months, I was stuck on zyprexa (5 mg) and klonopin (0.25 mg).  Everyday just felt like torture at work.  I was able to function but I still felt uncomfortable being in different places.  However, I did notice that during the months of 2019, I didnt have head pressures and rarely woke up gasping for air.  I did at times have my heart racing.  I must say that I was able to nap sometimes during the day being on these two meds and felt a sense of sleepiness at times.

 

In August, I switched psychiatrists again.  I saw a third psychiatrist based on online reviews and word of mouth.  When I told him what I was going through, he said I had GAD and panic disorder.  He wanted me to switched from zyprexa to seroquel since it had chemicals that would be better for me.  So I went from 25 mg to 50 mg of seroquel and 5 to 2.5 mg of zyprexa in a month span.  He said to go off of the 2.5 mg zyprexa but I told him I wanted to taper more.  I was afraid that I would experience what I had from the time I ct’d zyprexa the first time.

 

When I went down on zyprexa starting in August, I didnt notice much difference in how I felt.  I went down further to 1.25 mg and now around 0.625 mg.  So basically, I held each dose for a few weeks.  Having discovered this group recently and now the 10 percent rule, I feel scared as to my taper off zyprexa.

 

Right now, Im on Seroquel (75 mg), Zyprexa (0.625 mg and tapering very slowly), and Klonopin (0.25 mg).  I feel bad now that I did 50% reductions in the beginning for zyprexa and didnt start the 10% rule until I got lower.  I went by how I was feeling going down and didnt really experience any difference going down on zyprexa from August to this month.  I still cannot sleep without medication which has now been seroquel.  

 

Id love to know your input about this situation and if what Im doing is ok so far.   Also, what may have messed up my sleep to begin with if it was because of my anxiety or maybe stopping the Elavil to begin with may have contributed to sleep problems.

 

Medication history:

 

April 15 2018 to June 15 2018:

Amitriptyline (10 mg) stopped after 2 months.  Not sure about withdrawals.

 

October 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

 

November 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.50 mg)

 

December 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

 

January 2019:

Lexapro (5 mg) stopped after 1 week.  No sign of withdrawals.

zoloft (25 mg) stopped after 1 week.  No sign of withdrawals.

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

 

February 2019 to July 2019:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

 

August 2019:

Seroquel (25 mg to 50 mg)

Olanzapine (2.5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

 

September 2019:

Seroquel (50 to 75 mg)

Olanzapine (1.25 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

 

October 2019 to December 2019:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine (0.625 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Shep
added username to title

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Jt003.  First of all, don't feel bad that you didn't start the 10% taper until later in your taper.  Most people, myself included, arrive here having made mistakes based on their doctors' advice.  Also, the lower dosages are the especially crucial to taper slowly, so you can congratulate yourself that you found SA in time and are now doing the Zyprexa taper correctly.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Monitor your symptoms and listen to your body.  As you go lower, you might need to go more slowly either with a lesser percentage or longer holds.  Try to get as low as you can before jumping to zero, to 0.1 or even lower if possible.  I'm aiming for 0.05 to jump off my Lexapro.

 

It appears that your sleep problems began with your cold turkey of Elavil (Amitriptyline).  Elavil is a tricyclic antidepressant and needs to be tapered by 10% just like SSRI's (I know; I'm on a tricyclic myself).  After only a month of usage, you're at risk of withdrawal symptoms if you CT or taper too fast.   It's common for withdrawal symptoms to arise at the three-month mark, as they did with you. Insomnia is one of the most typical withdrawal symptoms.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Once you've finished the Zyprexa taper, give yourself at least three months' rest before the next taper.  We recommend tapering only one drug at a time.  Otherwise, if problems arise you won't know their cause.  You'll probably want to taper the Klonopin next, again using the 10% or less every four weeks taper.  Then a rest, then the seroquel and you're off.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

[Jt003]

Thank you Gridley for the information.  I really appreciate it and will follow as closely as possible.  As for sleep, Ive been struggling the past few days with it.  Im not sure if the seroquel is not working anymore or if maybe Im experiencing withdrawals now from going down on the zyprexa.  Since my psychiatrist has me on seroquel mainly for sleep, I know he will tell me to just go up a dose.  Do you think that its ok to keep upping the dosage of seroquel?  I may try to add magnesium glycinate just in case at a small dose.  It has been an odd couple of days recently with not falling into deep sleep as I have been

[Gridley]

41 minutes ago, Jt003 said:

Do you think that its ok to keep upping the dosage of seroquel?  

I would not keep upping the Seroquel.  That's what doctors do--give you more drugs and higher doses.  Then once you reach tolerance you'll have to up the dose again--and again.  That means when it comes time to taper, it's going to take that much longer to taper off a high dose.

 

The mag glycinate is a good idea.  

 

Some members have found Melatonin helpful with insomnia.   

 

Melatonin for sleep   I

 

t's best to start at a very low dosage, such as .25mg, and gradually increase if needed to the lowest effective dose.  

[Jt003]

Hi again.  I am still tapering the zyprexa.  Im really scared with the sleep as I have had broken sleep the past two weeks.  I get around 4 to 5 hours of broken sleep.  I have the magnesium glycinate supplement added.  Any suggestions?  I feel scared as my thinking feels cloudy and the seroquel doesnt seem to be working well. 

[Jt003]

Hi everyone!  So this month, my sleep was better.  I dunno what that unusual sleep pattern last month was all about.  I still rely on seroquel for sleep.  I must have had insomnia related withdrawal last month from going down on zyprexa for months.  My psych said to go up on seroquel but I still stayed at the same dose of 75 mg.  It took some time for that sleep disruption last month to go away.  This month, ive been able to go back to 7-8 hrs of sleep with seroquel.  Anyways, Im continuing to taper and getting close to jumping off zyprexa.  Im currently at 0.004 g.  Ive been tapering by 0.001 g over the past few months.  Is this okay to jump off?   I dunno how much smaller I can get off this crumb of a 2.5 mg pill

[Jt003]

I need help again.  So being at such a low dose of zyprexa (<0.004 g extremely tiny and the scale couldnt read the tiny crumb), I decided to try to stop. The result was that I could hardly sleep last night.  Im thinking I maybe its psychology that I feel afraid of coming off which is making me think too much at night about it that affects how seroquel makes me sleep.  I feel kinda defeated even though its only been day 1 of being off zyprexa.   Last night, I just couldnt stop thinking and worrying about what it would be like once off it.  Can anyone chime in to see what may have happened?   I may go back on the tiny crumb for a bit longer but Ive been dropping doses every two weeks.   

[brassmonkey]

Hi JT-- from your comments I am assuming that the 0.004g is the actual weight that you are measuring on the scale. Is this correct?  We prefer to talk about doses by their strength and not their weight.  The problem is they are both measured in milligrams. If you could tell me the actual weight of a whole 2.5mg tablet I can help you calculate the actual dose strength that you are taking and that will help us determine just how close you are to a good jumping off point.

 

How often have you been making the 0.001g reductions over the past several months?  Have you taken any hold periods during that time?

 

Because your dose is so small it puts you clearly in an "endgame taper" position, and that is where the reductions start to get tricky. Luckily the endgame taper doesn't last more than a few reductions so it can be managed.  Most of the rules about tapering percentages go out the window because measuring them is quite impractical.

[Denas1969]

I am in the same zyprexa taper and the weight jt is at is roughly .30 milligrams.  My .33 milligrams weigh in at .005.  Just thought I would help out on that here but have a few questions of my own which I will go post now. 

[Jt003]

Hi brassmonkey.  So ive been going by how low my scale can read the pill.  The lowest it can go is 0.004 g.   Ive been estimating less than that for my lowest pill im on so far.  Ive been cutting a 2.5 mg pill of zyprexa which weights 0.050 g on the scale.  Initially, i was put on 5 mg pill.  I went from 5 mg to 2.5 mg in two weeks.  Then from 2.5 to 1.25 mg in another two weeks.   Afterwards, 1.25 mg to 0.625 mg in two to three weeks.   I didnt start the 10 percent taper every two weeks until I found this forum.  So I started the 10 percent taper from 0.625 mg.  My weight of 0.625 mg on the scale was at 0.013 g on the scale. 
 

From my earliest post, Im also on other meds seroquel and klonopin.  Will taper those later on once im done with zyprexa.  I started tapering fast from August 2019 bc my psychiatrist wanted to switch me from zyprexa to seroquel.  The 10 percent taper every two weeks method I didnt start until October 2019

[brassmonkey]

Thanks JT-- that information is very helpful.  I noticed that you don't have a signature block yet, if you would please set one up it would be very helpful. https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/18343-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

 

It looks like you've been doing a very fast taper on the zyprexa, If you could keep a symptom diary and post it daily that would really help pin point what is going on. 

 

I think because of the fast taper you are experiencing a buildup of symptoms which is why you had problems when you tried to just stop.  If you want to minimize the symptoms then I think reinstating and holding at your last dose level for a few months  will help. If you want to follow your Drs advise about getting off of the zyprexa and being on just the other two drugs then I would slow down the taper a bit.  There will be a buildup of symptoms for a while that the other drugs are meant to cover up.  That should sort itself out eventually and the symptoms will calm down.

 

When we are talking about scale weights and dose weights there are a couple of things that really help keep it straight what we are talking about. We try to refer to the strength of a dose as xxmgai, milligrams active ingredient and the weight of the dose from the scale as xxmgpw, milligrams pill weight. Because they are both measured in milligrams it makes it easier to tell which is being talked about. For example your pills have a strength of 2.5mgai and a weight of 50mgpw.

 

Using the numbers you provided above you are taking a dose that weighs 4mgpw and has a strength of 0.2mgai.  If you are going to taper further then I would be aiming for a dose strength of 0.05mgai or possibly less for making the jump.  Because your scale only will weigh to 4mgpw this will involve visually dividing the powder into smaller amount.  Trying to do a 10% taper in this manner is impossible but it it is pretty easy to do 25%. This is pretty typical of Endgame Tapering.

[Jt003]

Heres my updated signature.  I cant seem to update it on my account settings and I keep getting a message saying “too many lines”.  I am making it a post.

 

Here you go:

 

Medication history/symptom history:

 

April 15 2018 to June 15 2018:

Amitriptyline (10 mg) stopped after 2 months.
 - my neurologist said to try amitriptyline for head pressures and anxiety.  Said to try it for 2 months and then stop.
Symptoms - After stopping on June 15, 2018, I didnt feel any difference in sleep or daily functions.  However, I had a doctor checkup in August 2018.  My blood pressure was unusually high (145/90) and I gained weight (10 pounds).  My blood pressure was usually 123/70 before I ever began a psych med like Ampytriptiline.

 

September 2018:

No medication

- my neurologist suggested I try lexapro for anxiety.  I did not go ahead with her suggestion.

Symptoms - My sleep began to deteriorate.  I began to lose my natural ability to fall asleep and even take a nap.  My sleep was 5-6 hrs a night and woke up multiple times each night.  

 

October 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

- I switched providers and went to a psychiatrist (psychiatrist 1).  He diagnosed me as bipolar and put me on zyprexa, klonopin and trazodone (as needed).  I started taking zyprexa but not klonopin.  

Symptoms - Trouble sleeping continued.  I woke up with red eyes everyday.  Also had ringing in my ears, watching tv felt weird with switching scene to scene (guessing increased anxiety) and felt needles and pin feeling on my arms and legs.

 

November 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.50 mg)

Symptoms - When I started zyprexa, I had a ton of sleep back.  Still had red eyes everyday.  The ringing in ears went away including weird feelings when watching tv and no more needle and pin feeling. I decided to go off zyprexa after only being on it for two weeks on 5 mg.  Bad idea.  The following day I had a major panic attack and bad anxiety.   Tried to continue for 6 days without zyprexa.  I couldnt sleep and the anxiety became unbearable.   Thats when I tried the klonopin as needed to begin with.  Eventually, I took klonopin everyday in the last two weeks of November.

 

December 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Regained alot of sleep during the month of December 2018. I went down on the klonopin from 0.50 mg to 0.25 mg.  I started feeling strange moving around like going to the bathroom or moving room to room.  My heart would beat fast moving around the house and had constant feelings of dread.  At work, whenever I heard a loud noise, it felt too much on my senses.  Also, when there was alot of movement like people walking or coming into meetings, it felt strange and overwhelming to me.  Emotionally, I felt numb and like a zombie.

 

January 2019:

Lexapro (5 mg) stopped after 1 week.  

zoloft (25 mg) stopped after 1 week.  

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

- I switched providers and went to a different psychiatrist (psychiatrist 2).  She diagnosed me as generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder.  She wanted me on an antidepressant in addition to zyprexa and klonopin.  Her goal was to eventually have me on just the antidepressant and get off the zyprexa and klonopin.  I started taking lexapro but stopped after a week because I had a manic episode where my blood pressure was really high and felt like everything was too much.  Also tried zoloft but I didnt feel comfortable going through it after a week.  

Symptoms - Felt sooo strange whenever there was alot of movement or just alot of things going on in my sight.  Continued to feel like a zombie without emotion or any motivation.

 

February 2019 to July 2019:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

- I continued seeing psychiatrist 2 and totally stuck on Zyprexa and klonopin.   
Symptoms - Continued to feel strange whenever there was alot of movement or just alot of things going on in my sight.  Also continued to feel like a zombie without emotion or any motivation.  There would be days when zyprexa wouldnt work well because of stress or high anxiety from work.  Everyday at work just felt like torture.  I dont know how I was able to get through these months.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

August 2019:

Seroquel (25 mg to 50 mg)

Olanzapine (2.5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

- I switched psychiatrists for a third time.  Psychiatrist 3 wanted me to switch from zyprexa to seroquel.  He wanted me to get off zyprexa and klonopin with seroquel as the only medication at the end.

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

September 2019:

Seroquel (50 to 75 mg)

Olanzapine (1.25 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

October 2019:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine (0.625 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.  I had ringing ears and strange feelings when watching tv for a few days.

 

November 2019:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine (0.625 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

December 2019:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine 

12/2 - 12/29 - 0.010 g

12/30 - 1/12 - 0.009 g

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  My sleep deteriorated (2 to 5 hrs a night) from 12/11 to 12/20.  I tried to change my mindset about sleep this time.  If I didnt get alot of hours, just dont worry about it.  My psychiatrist wanted to updose my seroquel but I continued to stay on the 75 mg of seroquel.  On 12/21, I got back alot of sleep.  Around this day, when I wokeup, I felt something click in my head.  The feeling of motivation and feeling like myself with emotion coming through.  I felt that feeling of “me” for a few hours.  My anxiety felt lessened this time going to places and I didnt feel too concerned about alot of movement being in different places.  For the first time in months, I was able to travel farther from my home and not feel concerned about it.  Also, I felt some motivation in doing things again like seeing a Christmas event.

 

January 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

12/30 - 1/12 - 0.009 g 

1/13 - 1/27 - 0.008 g 

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - lessened anxiety and lessened concerns about being in different environments like stores, the mall, doctors office, etc.  However had weird sleep disruptions for almost 3 weeks where I would get 6 hrs max and wokeup a few times during the night.

 

February 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

1/27 - 2/9 - 0.007 g 

2/10 - 2/23 - 0.006 g 

2/24 - 3/8 - 0.004 g 

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - lessened anxiety and lessened concerns about being in different environments like stores, the mall, doctors office, etc.  This was the month where I felt alot like myself.  I was able to drive and do things that I havent done in a longtime.  I felt alot of motivation and emotion come back.  Just listening to my favorite music was enjoyable.  Felt the need to get things done in my house and activities that I havent touched in a longtime.

 

March 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

2/24 - 3/8 - 0.004 g 

3/8 - <0.004 

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - lessened anxiety and lessened concerns about being in different environments like stores, the mall, doctors office, etc.  Still had motivation and enjoyment in doing things like watching a movie, working, and other activities.  

[Jt003]

Hey again!   So I was wondering if going off of the zyprexa is affecting the ability of my seroquel to help with sleep.  Will cutting more make any difference even though its just at extremely small amounts?  I feel that if I go off of the zyprexa, it somehow affects the other meds Im on no matter the taper.  Is this right?

[Jt003]

Hi again!   So I stopped zyprexa completely a few days ago.  I was just on a “tiny spec”.  This is my 4th attempt at quitting.  I feel pretty good and sleeping fine this time.  My question is that my next goal is to taper off klonopin.  How long before I can start tapering off klonopin then lastly seroquel?  Also, can I do a microtaper for klonopin?

[Altostrata]

Hello, Jt. What was the "tiny spec"? What was your tapering schedule for olanzapine?

 

What other drugs are you taking now, at what dosages (in milligrams) and times of day?

 

If you're still taking Seroquel and Ativan, that may be plenty of "brakes" at once for you now. Still, I would wait a month before making other drug changes.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

[Jt003]

Hi Altrostrata.  I posted all this info in my previous posts.  I tapered from 5 mg to a tiny spec that weighs less than 0.004 g on a jewelry scale.  My taper for zyprexa went from August 2019 to this month.  Right now, Im on seroquel and klonopin.  I dunno where you got Ativan from.

 

Heres my updated info:

 

May 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

3/8 - 5/9 < 0.004 g

Currently on 0 g

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms

Feeling fine.  I had one night where I woke up feeling electrocuted or shocked in my body.  

[Altostrata]

Sorry, I meant Ativan.

 

4 minutes ago, Jt003 said:

I had one night where I woke up feeling electrocuted or shocked in my body.

 

Which night was this? Had you made a drug change shortly before?

 

On 4/27/2020 at 5:54 PM, Jt003 said:

Hey again!   So I was wondering if going off of the zyprexa is affecting the ability of my seroquel to help with sleep.  Will cutting more make any difference even though its just at extremely small amounts?  I feel that if I go off of the zyprexa, it somehow affects the other meds Im on no matter the taper.  Is this right?

 

Are you having trouble sleeping?

 

We need your recent drug history over the last few years summarized in your signature.

[Jt003]

Ive had no drug changes so far.   This electric shock moment happened this past Saturday when I was still on all 3 drugs. I rely on seroquel for sleep because my natural ability to sleep without medication is messed up.  However, these past few months, Ive been feeling the ability to feel tired and sleepy come back but not at its full extent yet.  Also, the first three times i tried stopping zyprexa, I couldnt sleep at all.  But I feel confident that after being on the tiny spec for a few months now, I can go off.  Ive been sleeping around 6 to 8 hrs hours on avg a night

[Altostrata]

It's important that you take your drugs at the same dosages and times each day. Symptoms like zaps can occur because you've been off-schedule or made other drug changes.

 

So you were prescribed all these drugs at once for sleep?

[Jt003]

Yes, Ive been taking them at the same dosages and times of day.  I never had a sleeping problem until I got on these drugs.  Ive always slept naturally before all these drugs.  I have an anxiety problem.  From my previous posts, it all started when I was prescribed Elavil for anxiety and tension headaches for two months.  My neurologist told me to stop it after taking it for two months.  Thats when I couldnt sleep naturally anymore and soon led to these other drugs after switching healthcare providers.  Its a long story.  I didnt know what was going on back then.  Right now, I see these meds have been the problem.  The psychiatrist I see now is having me switch from zyprexa to seroquel while also taking klonopin.  
 

My main goal is to get off all these drugs and get my natural sleep ability back.  Also, to not have anxiety issues anymore.

[Jt003]

I wanted to ask, when I begin the klonopin taper, is it ok to do a microtaper or the 10% a month taper method? Im on 0.25 mg klonopin

[Jt003]

Hi again!  Its been over a week since I jumped off a tiny spec.  In one week, I felt totally ok.  No anxiety and good sleep.  However, these past two days, my sleep has deteriorated.  Im having trouble falling asleep quickly and having fearful thoughts about how I would feel after jumping.  Im not sure if going off of the zyprexa is affecting the seroquels ability for me to sleep.  Can anyone chime in if I should go back on the tiny speck again?  I feel scared if I jumped at the right time and having weird thoughts.  Feeling anxious also.

[Altostrata]

Not sure what I can say. You may have tapered Zyprexa too fast, that brain zap a week or so ago might have been a warning sign.

 

On 5/14/2020 at 11:45 AM, Altostrata said:

It's important that you take your drugs at the same dosages and times each day. Symptoms like zaps can occur because you've been off-schedule or made other drug changes.

 

And yet you continued to reduce.

 

We make these requests for a reason:

 

On 5/14/2020 at 11:10 AM, Altostrata said:

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

To figure out what may be going on now, I'll have to ask a lot of questions and spend time understanding the answers. Please respect my time by being more cooperative.

 

 

[Jt003]

6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

No answers to any questions until you summarize this information in your signature.

I posted the summary in my previous posts.  Heres the whole thing again to today:

 

Here you go:

 

Medication history/symptom history:

 

April 15 2018 to June 15 2018:

Amitriptyline (10 mg) stopped after 2 months.
 - my neurologist said to try amitriptyline for head pressures and anxiety.  Said to try it for 2 months and then stop.
Symptoms - After stopping on June 15, 2018, I didnt feel any difference in sleep or daily functions.  However, I had a doctor checkup in August 2018.  My blood pressure was unusually high (145/90) and I gained weight (10 pounds).  My blood pressure was usually 123/70 before I ever began a psych med like Ampytriptiline.

 

September 2018:

No medication

- my neurologist suggested I try lexapro for anxiety.  I did not go ahead with her suggestion.

Symptoms - My sleep began to deteriorate.  I began to lose my natural ability to fall asleep and even take a nap.  My sleep was 5-6 hrs a night and woke up multiple times each night.  

 

October 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

- I switched providers and went to a psychiatrist (psychiatrist 1).  He diagnosed me as bipolar and put me on zyprexa, klonopin and trazodone (as needed).  I started taking zyprexa but not klonopin.  

Symptoms - Trouble sleeping continued.  I woke up with red eyes everyday.  Also had ringing in my ears, watching tv felt weird with switching scene to scene (guessing increased anxiety) and felt needles and pin feeling on my arms and legs.

 

November 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.50 mg)

Symptoms - When I started zyprexa, I had a ton of sleep back.  Still had red eyes everyday.  The ringing in ears went away including weird feelings when watching tv and no more needle and pin feeling. I decided to go off zyprexa after only being on it for two weeks on 5 mg.  Bad idea.  The following day I had a major panic attack and bad anxiety.   Tried to continue for 6 days without zyprexa.  I couldnt sleep and the anxiety became unbearable.   Thats when I tried the klonopin as needed to begin with.  Eventually, I took klonopin everyday in the last two weeks of November.

 

December 2018:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Regained alot of sleep during the month of December 2018. I went down on the klonopin from 0.50 mg to 0.25 mg.  I started feeling strange moving around like going to the bathroom or moving room to room.  My heart would beat fast moving around the house and had constant feelings of dread.  At work, whenever I heard a loud noise, it felt too much on my senses.  Also, when there was alot of movement like people walking or coming into meetings, it felt strange and overwhelming to me.  Emotionally, I felt numb and like a zombie.

 

January 2019:

Lexapro (5 mg) stopped after 1 week.  

zoloft (25 mg) stopped after 1 week.  

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

- I switched providers and went to a different psychiatrist (psychiatrist 2).  She diagnosed me as generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder.  She wanted me on an antidepressant in addition to zyprexa and klonopin.  Her goal was to eventually have me on just the antidepressant and get off the zyprexa and klonopin.  I started taking lexapro but stopped after a week because I had a manic episode where my blood pressure was really high and felt like everything was too much.  Also tried zoloft but I didnt feel comfortable going through it after a week.  

Symptoms - Felt sooo strange whenever there was alot of movement or just alot of things going on in my sight.  Continued to feel like a zombie without emotion or any motivation.

 

February 2019 to July 2019:

Olanzapine (5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

- I continued seeing psychiatrist 2 and totally stuck on Zyprexa and klonopin.   
Symptoms - Continued to feel strange whenever there was alot of movement or just alot of things going on in my sight.  Also continued to feel like a zombie without emotion or any motivation.  There would be days when zyprexa wouldnt work well because of stress or high anxiety from work.  Everyday at work just felt like torture.  I dont know how I was able to get through these months.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

August 2019:

Seroquel (25 mg to 50 mg)

Olanzapine (2.5 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

- I switched psychiatrists for a third time.  Psychiatrist 3 wanted me to switch from zyprexa to seroquel.  He wanted me to get off zyprexa and klonopin with seroquel as the only medication at the end.

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

September 2019:

Seroquel (50 to 75 mg)

Olanzapine (1.25 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

October 2019:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine (0.625 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.  I had ringing ears and strange feelings when watching tv for a few days.

 

November 2019:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine (0.625 mg)

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  Also, I still slept mostly 5-7 hours but had days when I didnt sleep well depending on my anxiety.

 

December 2019:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine 

12/2 - 12/29 - 0.010 g

12/30 - 1/12 - 0.009 g

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Continued high anxiety, strange feelings and senses when it comes to alot of movement or things going on around me, and still had feelings of dread and dying.  Whenever I was at a store or place outside my house, my heart would beat fast.  My sleep deteriorated (2 to 5 hrs a night) from 12/11 to 12/20.  I tried to change my mindset about sleep this time.  If I didnt get alot of hours, just dont worry about it.  My psychiatrist wanted to updose my seroquel but I continued to stay on the 75 mg of seroquel.  On 12/21, I got back alot of sleep.  Around this day, when I wokeup, I felt something click in my head.  The feeling of motivation and feeling like myself with emotion coming through.  I felt that feeling of “me” for a few hours.  My anxiety felt lessened this time going to places and I didnt feel too concerned about alot of movement being in different places.  For the first time in months, I was able to travel farther from my home and not feel concerned about it.  Also, I felt some motivation in doing things again like seeing a Christmas event.

 

January 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

12/30 - 1/12 - 0.009 g 

1/13 - 1/27 - 0.008 g 

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - lessened anxiety and lessened concerns about being in different environments like stores, the mall, doctors office, etc.  However had weird sleep disruptions for almost 3 weeks where I would get 6 hrs max and wokeup a few times during the night.

 

February 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

1/27 - 2/9 - 0.007 g 

2/10 - 2/23 - 0.006 g 

2/24 - 3/8 - 0.004 g 

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - lessened anxiety and lessened concerns about being in different environments like stores, the mall, doctors office, etc.  This was the month where I felt alot like myself.  I was able to drive and do things that I havent done in a longtime.  I felt alot of motivation and emotion come back.  Just listening to my favorite music was enjoyable.  Felt the need to get things done in my house and activities that I havent touched in a longtime.

 

March 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

2/24 - 3/8 - 0.004 g 

3/8 - <0.004 

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - lessened anxiety and lessened concerns about being in different environments like stores, the mall, doctors office, etc.  Still had motivation and enjoyment in doing things like watching a movie, working, and other activities.

 

April 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

3/8 - 4/30 <0.004 g

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - lessened anxiety and lessened concerns about being in different environments like stores, the mall, doctors office, etc.  Still had motivation and enjoyment in doing things like watching a movie, working, and other activities.

 

May 2020:

Seroquel (75 mg)

Olanzapine:

4/30 - 5/9: <0.004 g

I stopped taking olanzapine on 5/9

Klonopin (0.25 mg)

Symptoms - Still had motivation and enjoyment in doing things like watching a movie, working, and other activities.

 

[Altostrata]

How is that different from a signature? We ask that you condense the information in a signature for a reason -- so staff doesn't have to study your topic over and over.

 

If you don't want to help us out, we don't have to help you, either.

 

 

[Jt003]

How can I condense all this when you need all the information that you can about what is going on?  I cant fit my story in 12 lines.  Will you be able to understand everything in just 12 lines?

[Jt003]

Did the best that I can with my signature below

[Jt003]

Should I reinstate the zyprexa after being off it for a week?  But reinstate it at the lowest amount I was last on?

[Altostrata]

Good job on the signature.

 

You were taking quite a cocktail. When you remove one of 3 drugs, the other drugs shift in your internal environment. This adjusting may cause symptoms for a short while. That might be why your sleep was disturbed for 2 nights. Do you have any symptoms during the day? If so, what are they and when do they occur?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

[Jt003]

Right now, I feel a sense of loss of appetite, some anxiousness and worry about coming off the zyprexa.  I feel this a few times a day so far.  This is for two days now.  I felt totally fine and slept well all last week when I was off.

 

I take klonopin 0.25 mg in the morning and seroquel 75 mg at night.  I use to take the zyprexa (tiny amount) at night two hours before seroquel.  I never take drugs together at the same time.

[Jt003]

Ok.  Reaching the 1 month mark being off of zyprexa completely.  Thank you Altostata for the last info.  I hung in there and it looks like I am able to sleep good again (6 to 7 hrs sleep).  Im feeling pretty good.  It looks like it was a small withdrawal.  Now,  when should I start tapering klonopin and is a microtaper ok?

[Denas1969]

So happy for you and hope your journey continues on the up!!  I am just about there myself. Can't wait to be where you are. 

[Jt003]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:00 PM, Denas1969 said:

So happy for you and hope your journey continues on the up!!  I am just about there myself. Can't wait to be where you are. 

Thank you Denas1969!  Its definitely encouraging.  So I am 2 months off and doing fine.  Can any experts say when/how I should start my next taper, klonopin?  Also, I hear you can microtaper a benzo aside from the 10% percent reduction a month.  Im trying to figure how I should taper this benzo.  Im also on seroquel.

[Altostrata]

How is your sleep now, Jt? What times of day do you take Klonopin?

 

Yes, you can microtaper a benzo.

[Jt003]

My sleep is the same still.  6 to 7 hrs a night.  I still take 0.25 mg klonopin in the morning.  I question the microtaper bc it seems like a fast taper compared to the 10 percent a month method.  But being on a low dose,  I feel like I can pull off the microtaper but may do holds on it if I get withdrawals

[Jt003]

I just wanna say this one of the most DYSFUNCTIONAL and WORST experiences I have ever had in regards to seeking help from a provider.  Out of seeing a doctor, dentist, dermatologist, etc, for my well being, mental health specialists are the LOWEST out of ALL!  
 

From seeing a neurologist to a therapist to a psychiatrist, all I get is “i dont know”, “i dont know”, “i dont know” in regards to anxiety as if they dont really how the brain works and its really all up to “ME” to figure it out.  Ive raised HELL with every mental health specialist I have come in contact with and if I am the “kryptonite”to what they do, then so be IT.  In addition to that, all they do is just push “medication” and truly just act as drug dealers thinking that these “meds” will just solve the problem when in reality, they dont.  I also do not get encouragement or motivation that I am doing well.  All they do is act neutral and show no empathy towards your situation.  What makes it worse is that they just rush you to get out the door without explaining how the “med” works, getting off of it, dont even know about withdrawals, and just laugh at your condition thinking it is no big deal.  Like how can you have 30+ years of experience in the mental health field and not to have known about one single person that has had a withdrawal from going off of a “med” not even someone that has died from taking one dose of it.  And when they do, they will just cover it up and act like it never happened just so that they can show themselves as a positive image for the mental health community.  

 

I wish I could sue and get my money back and my time wasted since day 1 from seeing these so called head specialists.  But Im sure all they would say is its all in my head and be labelled “crazy”.  I hope that more awareness will come into light about these important issues and horrific stories we have in mental health bc people TRULY need to know what they are getting themselves into and a major CHANGE comes in these uncertain times!