Lina1001: big problem with stopping AD too fast

[Lina1001]

I am french. My english is not fluent. 9 months ago, i quit ad and bzd In 1 monte and a half. I was having those médecine since 20 years because of panic attac. I felt very good. So i quited.Big mistake. I took it all again: ecsitalopram 10mg+ tranxene 10mg. Then, started maniac crises. So my psychiatre told me to stop ecsitalopram. What i did in 1 month. 5 months later i am still suffering ouf brain zap, panics attacs etc... i went to see a new doctor Who wants to give me another ad to stop my suffering. To stand my state, since 2 week, I murs take 30mg tranxene by day ! But, I am anxious about having maniac attac again if a take an ad again !  I am not maniac, juste suffering of panic Attac,

do you have any advice that could help me ? Thanks so much  

Edited December 17, 2019 by Shep
added username to title

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Lina1001.  I'm sorry you're having these difficult symptoms.

 

It appears that you are suffering from withdrawal from your very fast first taper of escitalopram and the tranzene and your second fast taper of escitalopram. (We recommend tapering no faster than 10% of current dose every four weeksWhen you took it again, your system was very sensitive, which would explain the manic (is this what you mean, not maniac?) crisis.  What were the symptoms of this crisis? The other symptoms you describe--brain zaps and panic attacks--are typical withdrawal symptoms.  You should know that doctors don't believe that withdrawal from antidepressants exists.  It does.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

We can't tell you whether another antidepressant will cause another manic crisis.  We can tell you that your central nervous system is now in a very sensitive condition from withdrawal.  You will heal.  Unfortunately we can't tell you how long it will take.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Erell]

Bonjour Lina

 

Je suis contente que tu ais trouvé ce forum, et avec Gridley tu es entre de très bonnes mains !

 

Il y a énormément de très pertinentes infos ici que je t'invite à parcourir.

Je me tiens à ta disposition si tu souhaites que je traduise des infos. Idem si tu souhaites écrire un texte résumant ton parcours : je le traduirai si cela peut t'aider. 

 

Bienvenue!

 

(  I'm glad you found this forum, and with Gridley you are in very good hands !

 

There are a lot of very relevant info here, and I invite you To explore it.

I'm available if you want me To translate some info.

You also can write a summarize of your history : I will be glad To translate it if it can help you.

 

welcome! )

 

[Lina1001]

Thanks so much for that explanation. Do you think that i should take another ad  to catch up a supportable state ?

i have stopped five months ago but i can’t stand the sides effects anymore. Will it calm down my brain a little ?

The problem is that i take too many  bzd since 2 weeks and i don’t want to take more and more each day because it’s Another drug that i must stop one day and that doesn’t heal my problem, it’s just hiding it as you must know.

do you know people who have taken ad again after 5 months and being in a withdrawal syndrome ? 

And if you do, what happened to them ? Better ? Worst ? Nothing ?

i know that we are all different but testimonies can help me taking my decision.

Thanks for your Welcome and your support 

[Lina1001]

Hi Errell !

 

My english is so bad... 

It could  help me to translate sometimes...

i have to take a decision for tomorrow.

take again ad or not...

i feel lost 

i need testimonies and other expériences to light my instinct !

 

nice to meet you on that web site special  ad !

[Gridley]

39 minutes ago, Lina1001 said:

Do you think that i should take another ad  to catch up a supportable state ?

We are a site for going of drugs and dealing with withdrawal.  We do not recommend taking drugs.

 

41 minutes ago, Lina1001 said:

 

do you know people who have taken ad again after 5 months and being in a withdrawal syndrome ? 

Over the years I've read various stories but don't have any specific examples that come to mind  To the best of my knowledge most of those who got on other AD's (what we call the drug merry-go-round) didn't do well.  It is total guesswork on the part of the psychiatrist regarding which AD to give you, and if that doesn't work they put you on another drug, then another.  Then you have withdrawal on top of withdrawal on top of withdrawal and side effects on top of side effects on top of side effects.  It's also called "drug Russian roulette."

 

Regarding the benzo, you need to know that dependence can begin as soon as 2-to-4weeks of daily use and is possible with intermittent use.

[Lina1001]

Thanks for your answer.

I don’t want to play drug  russian roulette .

if i take another ad it would be in order to quit it more slowly.

 

to help myself i take « ororate de lithium » since 2 days. It calm me down. It’s Not a drug. And the effects will be better alter 10days. I also take hawthorn and balm. Same Good effects i don’t take magnesium because ican’t stand it, same for omega 3...

another thing that help me a lot is EMDR therapie.

 

i am gonna see if a can manage the next few  days without taking another ad.

and take less bzd.

 

thanks for your support

[Vegalia]

Salut Lina,

 

Bienvenue ici.

Courage à toi.

 

A bientôt

 

Vega

 

Hi Lina, Welcome here. Good luck. See you soon Vega

 

[Lina1001]

HI Vega ! Merci pour l’accueil !

bon courage à toi aussi

 

Thanks for the  welcome !

 

good luck you too ! 🙂

[Lina1001]

Hi Vega, i can’t explain myself the way i’d like in english. 

Any Way, i won’t take another drug.

i’m gonna wait for better days.

still, i feel hopeless.

i’m trying to stabilyse my state.

 

after 5 months of CT, i can’t start to retape the tranxene.

just trying to avoid new panic attacs

 

Kiss

[Vegalia]

Salut Lina,

 

Je te soutiens dans cette galère.

J'attends aussi de meilleurs jours. 

Je les espère vraiment pour toi aussi.

 

Bisous

 

Vega

 

 

Hi Lina,   I support you in this galley. I also expect better days. I really hope for you too.   Kisses   Vega

[Erell]

Bonjour Lina, 

 

pourrais-tu écrire ici ton parcours détaillé avec les médicaments, et notamment tous les changements effectués sur les 24 derniers mois?

Cela permettrait de mieux comprendre ton parcours et de voir comment les modérateurs peuvent te conseiller.

 

Écris le en Français et je me chargerais de le traduire.

Tiens bon ❤️ 

 

(could you write your journey with drugs, and especially all the changes made since 24 months?

 

It would allow us to understand better your drug history and to see how moderators can advise you.

 

Write it in French and I will translate it.

 

hang on ❤️ )

 

 

[Lina1001]

Bonjour Errell 

 

voici mon histoire.

j’ai 44 ans. Depuis mon enfance, j’ai toujours été hypersensible, hyperemotive, anxieuse. A 9 ans, une agression m’a fait définitivement fait basculer dans l’angoisse. J’ai avancé avec des angoisses sans médicament jusqu’à environ 25 ans tous en ayant des problèmes gastriques et des migraines. A 20 ans, j’ai commencé à souffrir d’endométriose. Entre 20 et 30 ans, j’ai été mis en ménaupose artificielle 2 fois et opérée 4 fois. Vers 24/25 ans, ont commencé des attaques de paniques et une dépression légère. Un psy m’a prescris pleins de médocs, les changeant quand ce ne fonctionnaient pas: seropram, deroxat, tranxene, régulateur d’humeur etc....pour terminer avec le seroplex. Tout au long de la prise de ces drogues, J’ai commencé à avoir de nouvelles douleurs que j’ai toujours attribué à l’endométriose mais qui était dû en partie au seroplex. Le psychiatre m’a donc prescrit longtemps du laroxil dont je me suis sevrée seule.Le seroplex m’atoujours deshinbé et excité. Le tranxene était là pour me calmer. Ma vie a été une succession de haut et de bas dûs en grande partie aux seroplex et tranxene. Mon état physique a empiré au fil des années. Je croyais que c’etait L’endométriose et mon passé tourmenté. A 32 ans, J’ai enfin rencontré le père de ma fille qui a aujourd’hui 7 ans. A cette époque, je n’allais pas bien du tout, problèmes gastriques, douleurs, migraines et impossibilité de tomber enceinte. Je prenais 10mg de seroplex et jusqu’a 30mg de tranxene par jour. Afin de faire une FIV, je me suis sevrée seule et assez rapidement du tranxene. Je n’en garde que des acouphènes et une hypersensibilité à la lumière. Mais je n’ai pas pu sevrer le seroplex. J’ai donc eu mon enfant. 2 ans et demi plus tard, je me suis sevrée à moitié seule et plus lentement du seroplex, je n’en prenais plus que 5 mg. Puis ma mère est décédée, j’ai stoppé le sevrage. 2 ans plus tard mon père est décédé et j’ai augmenté le seroplex à 10mg . J’avais 42 ans. J’ai commencé à avoir des haut et des bas plus prononcé que j’attribuais au deuil. 1 an plus tard, j’ai fait de l’acupuncture avec un médecin chinois qui m’a donné des plantes qui m’ont remonté voir excité.

j’étais en pleine forme ( tout est relatif) en tout cas assez pour que je me lance dans un nouveau sevrage. J’ai voulu commencé par le seroplex. Je me suis sevrée toute seule en 2 mois. Ça allait, malgré les terribles symptômes, j’étais Déterminé à me libérer de cette drogue. Ça va toujours au début ...forte de cette illusoire réussite, je me suis quasi sevré du tranxene le mois suivant. Et la , ça a été l’enfer. J’ai cru mourir. Donc, j’ai repris 10mg de tranxene et 5 mg de seroplex. Et j’ai contacté un forum en france pour m’aider à me sevrer plus lentement, j’ai réalisé mon erreur. En reprenant le seroplex et le tranxene , j’ai eu des crises de plus en plus forte et violente de manie.( avec le recul elles avaient commencé  quand j’ai augmenté le seroplex à la mort de mon père) J’ai failli me tuer. J’etais Littéralement sous influence. Je me suis précipité sur le premier psychiatre venu qui m’a Dit debaisser le seroplex. Petit à petit sur un mois au départ. Mais j’étais toujours assez excitée et très angoissée à l’idee De devenir bipolaire. De plus sur le forum, on m’a conseillé de baisser plus vite. J’avais tellement de symptômes que j’attribuaIs tout cela à la reprise du seroplex. Et voilà comment en 1 mois ( juin 2019) j’ai fait la plus grosse connerie de toute ma vie, j’ai arrêté le seroplex. Les trois premiers sont très durs, mais à partir de septembre, l’enfer a commencé. J’ai tenu bon. Puis il y a 15 jours des attaques de panique non stop m’ont envoyé direct aux urgences psychiatriques. Je n’ai toujours pas repris le seroplex. Mais j’ai fortement augmenté le tranxene ( jusqu’à 35mg par jour ) pour contenir les angoisses et qu’elles ne virent pas en attaques de panique. Et lorsque le tranxene ne marche pas, je prends un comprimé de tercian a25mg.

je suis en phase de recherche de stabilisation. 

Je ne peux pas reprendre le seroplex mais je dois contenir les angoisses et les attaques de panique.

demain, je suis hospitalisée pour être en observation car j’ai de nouveau eu une attaque de panique ce matin.

 

pour moi, une attaque de panique signifie: sensation que tous le corps brûle, angoisse telles que je me mets à hurler, je me tord de douleurs, mon corps spasme. Et cela ne s’arrête pas même au bout de trois heures...

ce n’est pas une angoisse habituelle ou attaque de panique qui peut partir au bout d’une demie heure.

je précise que je ne suis pas psychotique, bipolaire ou schizophrène, c’est juste pour info.

 

 

tranxene: 35 mg, 

tercian: à la demande

 

 

 

merci errel de traduire ma présentation ! J’ai résumé au Max... 🙏

tercian, 

[Vegalia]

Coucou ma chère @Lina1001

 

Si tu en as la possibilité, pourrais-tu mettre des dates à tes prises et diminutions?

Si cela peut te rendre service, je peux reprendre ta signature de l'autre forum et la mettre ici? Tu me dis. Ou voir avec @Erellqui t'a d'abord proposé son aide.

 

Toutes mes pensées affectueuses pour toi et mon soutien, toujours.  ❤️

 

Vega 

 

 

Hi my dear Lina, If you have the possibility, could you put dates to your catches and decreases? If it helps you, can I take your signature from the other forum and put it here? You tell me. Or see with Erell who first offered to help you. All my loving thoughts for you and my support, always. ❤️ Vega

[Gridley]

On 12/15/2019 at 12:35 PM, Lina1001 said:

Do you think that i should take another ad  to catch up a supportable state ?

We are a site for going off drugs and helping with withdrawal.  We don't recommend adding drugs.

 

3 hours ago, Erell said:

 

(could you write your journey with drugs, and especially all the changes made since 24 months?

Lina,

 

Here is the link you can use to write your drug signature:

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

 

[Vegalia]

Hello,.

If it can help a little for escitalopram : 

 

Escitalopram 10 mg, 3 june 8, 4 june 7, 6 june 6, 8 june 5, 10 june 6, 13 june 5,5, 15 june 5, 19 june 4, 26 june 3,75, 27 june 3, 28 june 2, 29 june 1,5, 30 june 1,75, 1 july 1,087, 3 july 1, 9 july 0,70, 10 july 0,50, 13 july stop.

 

Courage Lina.

 

Vega

[Erell]

Translation of Lina's drugs history :

 

Here is my story : I have 44 years; Since I was a child, i've always been supersensitive, super-emotional, anxious.

At the age of 9, an assault definitely made me fall into anxiety.

Until the age of 25, I managed to go on with my life without meds, while having gastric issues and headaches.

At the age of 20, I started to be sick because of endometriosis. Between the age of 20 and 30, i've been put into artificial menopause twice, and had 4 surgeries.

around the age of 24-25, I started to have panic attacks and slight depression. A psychiatrist then prescribed me a lot of meds, changinig them when it didn't work : Paroxetine, Citalopram, Clorazepate, mood regulators...and I ended with Seroplex (Escitalopram).

 

During all these meds tests, I started to have new pains, but I always thought it was because of endometriosis while it was actually partly because of Escitalopram.

Because of these pains, my psychiatrist prescribe me for a long time Amitriptyline, which I have quit alone.

 

Escitalopram always have made me loose my inhibitions and excited me. Clorazepate was there to calm me down. So my life has been an ups and downs journey, mostly because of these two meds, and my physical state worsen through the years. I thought it was because of endometriosis and my tormented past.

 

At the age of 32 I met the father of my daughter who is now 7 years old. At that time, I had a lot of health issues : gastric issues, pains, headaches, and I couldn't get pregnant. I had 10 mg Escitalopram and 30mg Clorazepate everyday.

 In order to get an IVF treatment, I tappered alone and quickly Clorazepate. Symptoms I had were tinnitus and sensitivity to light. But I couldn't get off Escitalopram. Then I had my child.

 

Two years and a half later, I tappered slower Escitalopram  : I then took only 5mg. Then my mother died, so I stopped tapering. Two years later, my father died and I updosed Escitalopram to 10mg. I was 42. I started to have deeper ups and downs and thought it was because of grieving. One year later, I did acupuncture with a Chinese doctor who also gave me plants treatments.

 

I was feeling good, and started a new taper. I wanted to start with Escitalopram, and tapered alone in 2 months. It went well, despite symptoms, I was purposeful to be free from drugs. Feeling strong because of this illusory success, I almost quit Clorazepate the next month. And there I went into hell, I thought I was dying. So I get back on 10mg Clorazepate and 5mg Escitalopram.

 

I went on a French forum to find help to taper slower, I realised my mistake. By getting back on the two meds, I was having more en more violent and strong manic crisis (now I think that these crisis started when I updosed seroplex when my father died).

I almsot killed myself. I ran to the fisrt psychiatrist I could find and he told me to reduce my Escitalopram dose, during one month. But I was still very anxious about the idea to become bipolar. Furthermore, I was told on the French Forum to reduce faster. 

I had so many symptoms, I thought it was because I went back on Escitalopram.

 

And this is how I made the biggest mistake of my life : in one month (June 2019) I stopped taking Escitalopram. First three months were very hard, but hell started in September. I held on. But 15 days ago,  permanent panic attacks sent me to the emergency room.

I still didn't go back on Escitalopram, but I updosed largely Clorazepate (35mg everyday) to contain anxiety and avoid panic attacks. and when Clorazepate doesn't work, I take a pill of  25mg Cyanemazine.

 

Now I'm trying to reach stabilisation. I can't take Escitalopram again, but I have to avoid anxiety and panic attacks. Tomorrow I will go to hospital because I had a panic attack again this morning.

 

A panic attack for me is : all the body burn, high anxiety that makes me scream, high level of pain, spasms in all my body. And it doesn't stop, even after 3 hours...

 

I wanna clarify the fact that i'm not bipolar, psychotic ou schizophrenic, just for the info.

 

 

[Erell]

Bonjour Lina , 

 

Donc si je résume :

 

--> en 2007 tu étais à : 10mg d'Escitalopram (Seroplex) et 30mg de Clorazepate (Tranxène). Tu as à cette époque sevré rapidement le Clorazepate pour arriver à 0.

 

--> En 2010 tu as : baissé l'Escitalopram à 5mg puis tu es remontée à 10mg.

--> Tu indiques ensuite avoir sevré l'Escitalopram en 2 mois : quand était-ce exactement ?

Ensuite tu es remontée de nouveau à 5mg d'Escitalopram et 10m de Clorazepate : quand était-ce exactement ?

 

--> En Juin 2019 : tu a sevré l'Escitalopram en 1 mois et est désormais à 0mg. Tu dis que tu es désormais à 35mg de Clorazepate + parfois des cachets de 25mg de Cyamemazine (Tercian).

Mais je vois dans ta signature que ces doses varient selon les jours.

Je vais être honnête : cela fait énormément de changements en peu de temps et ton système nerveux est complètement déstabilisé. Les symptômes que tu subis sont "normaux" : ce sont des symptômes que nous connaissons tous ici trop bien.

 

Ce dont ton système nerveux a le plus besoin désormais c'est de stabilité : je te conseillerais donc de maintenir ta dose de Clorazepate stable. Tu prends la  Cyamemazine depuis combien de temps?

 

Enfin,tu dis être à l'hôpital : pour combien de temps? Les médecins risquent de te proposer de nouvelles molécules qui déstabiliseraient encore plus ton système nerveux...tiens nous au courant.

 

 

Je n'ai pas l'expertise nécessaire pour te conseiller correctement :  @Gridley ou d'autres modérateurs pourront mieux t'indiquer quelles sont tes options. @Shep pourra peut-être aussi nous faire bénéficier de son expertise en matière de benzodiazépines.

 

Tiens bon ma chère Lina ! ❤️

 

(Translation in English :

 

So if I summarize : 

 

--> in 2007 your doses were : 10mg Escitalopram and 30mg Clorazepate .  At that time you tappered quickly Clorazepate and reached 0mg.

 

--> in 2010 : you reduced Escitalopram to 5mg and then updosed back to 10mg.

 

--> You then explain that you tappered Escitalopram in 2 months : when exactly?

Then you went back to 5mg of Escitalopram and 10mg of Clorazepate : when exactly?

 

---> In June 2019, you tappered Escitalopram in one month and you are now at 0mg. You say that you are now at 35mg Clorazepate + occasionnal pills of Cyamemazine.

But I see in your signature that these doses change everyday.

 

I'm gonna be honest with you : this is a lot of changes and your CNS is destabilised. Your symptoms are "normal" : we know them too well here.

 

What your CNS need most now is stability : I advise you to take the same dose of Clorazepate everyday. Since when do you take Cyamemazine?

 

You said you are at the hospital now : for how long? Doctors might offer you new meds which would destabilise your CNS further...Keep us in touch.

 

I'm not an expert to advise you correctly : @Gridley or other mods could advise you better. And @Shep might help us thanks to her knowledge with benzos. )

 

 

[Shep]

On 12/15/2019 at 12:35 PM, Lina1001 said:

The problem is that i take too many  bzd since 2 weeks and i don’t want to take more and more each day because it’s Another drug that i must stop one day and that doesn’t heal my problem, it’s just hiding it as you must know.

 

On 12/15/2019 at 1:28 PM, Gridley said:

Regarding the benzo, you need to know that dependence can begin as soon as 2-to-4weeks of daily use and is possible with intermittent use.

 

@Erell and @Gridley You've both given excellent advice.

 

@Lina1001 I want to emphasize what Gridley posted about benzos. Although you're likely already dependent on the benzo, you risk being dependent on a higher dose. Also,  making lots of changes to the dose can lead to kindling. Please see:

 

Kindling

 

Moving the doses is very traumatic to the nervous system. 

 

52 minutes ago, Erell said:

--> in 2007 your doses were : 10mg Escitalopram and 30mg Clorazepate .  At that time you tappered quickly Clorazepate and reached 0mg.

 

--> in 2010 : you reduced Escitalopram to 5mg and then updosed back to 10mg.

 

--> You then explain that you tappered Escitalopram in 2 months : when exactly?

Then you went back to 5mg of Escitalopram and 10mg of Clorazepate : when exactly?

 

Thank you. Erell, for compiling this. 

 

Lina, I'm also confused about the timing of your drugs, but it's clear you've been exposed to Clrazepate (Tranxene) long enough to be dependent. 

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal. Some of your symptoms may be rebound benzo symptoms and a drug and symptoms journal will help us figure out how to guide you in a taper. 

 

Please also include:

• The number of hours you sleep each night
• Any supplements you're taking

Over the coming days, we'll be able to help you set up a proper taper, as well as get your benzo dosing straightened out. 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Shep
added bolding

[Lina1001]

Hi,

 

Thank you all for your help and support. Thanks to my french Angels for translating.

To answer to Errell:

i tapered fast ( 2 months) a first Time ecsitalopram in april 2019, then i stated tapering clorazepate, and that ended very bad.

so i took back ecsitalopram 5mg and clorazepate 10mg in may 2019.

 

i know that i’m addicted to clorazepate:

taken during ten years then tapered before getting pregnant.

I took it again in 2015 :10mg

 

i know my brain is in such a mess... 

i take more clorazepate in order to avoid panic attac.

since a tapered ecsitalopram, those attacs bring me to hospital cause they never stoppe.

 

Sometime They stoppe when i take clorazepate, sometime they don’t and then i take tercian .

 

i Want to quit clorazepate but how can i avoid those panic attacs ?

i’m trying not to take tercian and stay with clorazepate as less as i can.

 

i’m gonna with the diary.  Each day.

now, i’m in a clinic. They won’t change the drug, it’s observation Time.

if i feel bad, they will just give me clorazepate or tercian.

 

I don’t know how to handle those attacs without drug

.

i did it during 3 months, it was just crises with fasse flue, heart bitting fast, nausea.

i did it. But then it became worst with those  Attacs

I couldn’t Any more. I went to the hospital and they gave me more clorazepate and tercian.

 

i don’t know how to taper clorazepate now, i don’t know if it’s Time to taper. I don’t even knwo

how much i take, it’s changent every day regarding of my state with panic attac...

 

do you you need to read my diary every day ?

 

thanks for your attention and kindness 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Lina, clorazepate has a long half-life of 50 hours. How often do you take it? Why was tercian (antipsychotic, half-life 10 hours) added? What is the effect of tercian on you?

[Lina1001]

Hi Alrostrata !

 

i take clorazepate every day.

yesterday, i took 25mg

i take tercian to break the panic attack , it's getting me into a vegetable during the all day.

those attacks are so strong they may not end during days...

 

that's why when clorazepate don't break the attack, i take a tercian.

 

yesterday was a better day.

may be because I'm in a clinic and i can focus on myself only et take control again...

and not feel guilty about my family sadness

 

I'm gonna write down my journal of yesterday.

 

did i answer your question ?

[Lina1001]

Journal of wenesday 18 dec 2109

 

Each days i smoke about 10 cigarettes with consequences( hachs  increased after each then decreased about 10 minutes after)

the reason why i will include them in the journal, idem for meals ( hachs inceased but not decreased after a long time)

 

3 am: wake up, no nightmare, anxiety 8 on 10, tachi 8 on 10, nausea 8 on 10

took 10 mg clorazepate and 12,5 tercian: made me sleep

4 am : sweet dream, anxiety 8 on 10, tachi 8 on 10, nausea 8 on 10

took 12,5 tercian

3 am: entered the clinic

until 5 pm: 

tachi ( 5 on 10) , shortness of breath ( 7 on 10) body burns (3 on 10),sadness,weakness (10 on 10)cognitive hachs (7 on 10) feeling sodden by meds

5 pm: body burns ( 6 on 10 ), headhach ( 8 on 10) sadness, weakness ( 5 on 10), nervousness ( 8 on 10), shortness of breath ( 7 on 10)

6 pm: cigarette then stomac hach (7on 10), tachi ( 8 on 10), shortness of breath ( 9 on 10)

took dimeticone ( stomac bandage), made respiration exercices

6:30 pm: During having meal: tachi incresead, nausea, weekness, shortness of breath/ after : weakness, dizziness

7 pm: cigarette, dizziness increased

8:30 pm before having meds: dizziness ( 7 on 10), body burns ( 6 on 10), stomac hachs, asthenia, tremors, nausea, headhach, tinnitus

took meds 15 mg clorazepate

Cigarette idem

made breath exercices then dizziness decreased

8:50 pm all the same but I want to sleep, made a auto hypnosis to sleep

slept until 5 am

 

19 december 2019

5 am: woke up, nausea, tinnitus, headach, tachi(6 on 10)

made breath exercices then tach decreased to 3 on 10

i didn't have to take clorazepate.

....

 

thanks for your returns, i'll write down the end of this journal's day tonight.

thanks to support, and have a goooooooooood day, enjoy !

 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, Lina1001 said:

i’m gonna with the diary.  Each day.

now, i’m in a clinic. They won’t change the drug, it’s observation Time.

if i feel bad, they will just give me clorazepate or tercian.

 

I don’t know how to handle those attacs without drug

 

Thank you for starting your diary, Lina.

 

Does the clinic have classes in yoga, meditation, or other ways of learning to handle anxiety and intense emotions? 

 

[Lina1001]

Yes they do. But i think i won't stay long. 

The doctor i see doesn't believe me when i'm telling her about cold turkey etc...

she isn't even interested in.

I'm used to meditation, hypnosis and now emdr therapie. I'm gonna try yoga. I should also quit smoking which is very bad for me now, but i have no strenght to fight.

what is cool about being here is to be out of my usual life in order to understand what make the symptomes 

sometimes put me into panics attacs ( i mean emotionaly, even if the basic part is cold turkey)

So i will be able to work on it with EMDR therapie.

the second thing is that today i havn't taken meds yet and even if i feel bad, i don't need it yet. Her it is 2 pm.

so it's cool to observe in a safe place what will happen to my body now since it has been 2 weeks that a take much more clorazepate than usual.

i'm a bit scared to tell you the truth.

i used to have 15mg clorazepam during years, during last 2 weeks i took until 35 mg clorazepam, and now i 'm taking 15 mg again...i don't know if it will be ok...

 

I'll write my diary day tonight.

thanks for your reply and support.

it makes me feel that i'm in good hands cause doctors just don't want to see the truth.

thank you

i need you

[Lina1001]

Journal of thesday the 19th of december 2019

 

5 am: nausea,tinnitus,headhach,tachchardie(6 on 10),dizziness

did deep breathing exercices, streching then tachichardie went down to 3 on 10

6.40 am: took one cigarette,then headburns, tachi up to 5 on 10, shortness of breath (5 on 10) dizziness (5 on 10), tremors (5 on 10)

6.55 am: tachi back to 3 on 10, shortness of breath went down to 3 on10, dizziness idem, tremors still 5 on 10

7.40 am: tachi (2 on 10) body burns and hachs (3 on 10), headhach(5 on 10) tinnitus ( 6 on 10) diziness(7 on 10) sadness , nervouness (5 on 10)

8 am: cigarette, idem

8.15 am: had breakfast then more head hach, more diziness, more weakness, more sadness

8.50 am:all the symptomes increased with weekness up to 9 on 10

9 am: fall asleep

10.20 am: wake up, tachi (2/10), headhach (5/10),weekness(7/10) diziness(6/10) vision blurring, bodyburns (3/10)

11.30 am: cigarette symptomes increased

12h: had meal then more diziness, tremors, weekness

2 pm: severe nausea, gastric burn,  weekness, headhach, 

did pottery to express deep emotion, cried, then no more nausea

4 pm: cigarette, 4.50 pm: cigarette

5 pm: severe nausea, took dimoticone, then it stopped

5.3pm: deep weekness

etc... 

8 pm: good chat with sole people, felt very good despite symptomes described before

9.3 pm: took 15 mg clorazepate

10 pm: auto hypnosis to sleep, felt asleep

 

thanks and have a good day or night wherever you are positioned on our beautiful earth !

see you tomorow to see what the reduction of clorazepate will be...

 

🧐

 

[Lina1001]

Journal of thesday the 19th of december 2019

 

5 am: nausea,tinnitus,headhach,tachchardie(6 on 10),dizziness

did deep breathing exercices, streching then tachichardie went down to 3 on 10

6.40 am: took one cigarette,then headburns, tachi up to 5 on 10, shortness of breath (5 on 10) dizziness (5 on 10), tremors (5 on 10)

6.55 am: tachi back to 3 on 10, shortness of breath went down to 3 on10, dizziness idem, tremors still 5 on 10

7.40 am: tachi (2 on 10) body burns and hachs (3 on 10), headhach(5 on 10) tinnitus ( 6 on 10) diziness(7 on 10) sadness , nervouness (5 on 10)

8 am: cigarette, idem

8.15 am: had breakfast then more head hach, more diziness, more weakness, more sadness

8.50 am:all the symptomes increased with weekness up to 9 on 10

9 am: fall asleep

10.20 am: wake up, tachi (2/10), headhach (5/10),weekness(7/10) diziness(6/10) vision blurring, bodyburns (3/10)

11.30 am: cigarette symptomes increased

12h: had meal then more diziness, tremors, weekness

2 pm: severe nausea, gastric burn,  weekness, headhach, 

did pottery to express deep emotion, cried, then no more nausea

4 pm: cigarette, 4.50 pm: cigarette

5 pm: severe nausea, took dimoticone, then it stopped

5.3pm: deep weekness

etc... 

8 pm: good chat with sole people, felt very good despite symptomes described before, no more sadness

9.3 pm: took 15 mg clorazepate then felt more diziness, nausea again and headhach !

10 pm: auto hypnosis to sleep, felt asleep

 

thanks and have a good day or night wherever you are positioned on our beautiful earth !

see you tomorow to see what the reduction of clorazepate will be...

 

🧐

 

[Shep]

On 12/19/2019 at 7:54 AM, Lina1001 said:

I'm used to meditation, hypnosis and now emdr therapie. I'm gonna try yoga. I should also quit smoking which is very bad for me now, but i have no strenght to fight.

 

These are all great non-drug coping skills to learn. I'm glad you're already into these. If you do stop smoking, you may want to gradually reduce the number of cigarettes you smoke instead of quitting cold turkey. Nicotine is also a drug, so reducing it slowly is best. 

 

We have a list of non-drug coping techniques which you may find helpful to add into the other great things you're doing already.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

On 12/19/2019 at 7:54 AM, Lina1001 said:

i used to have 15mg clorazepam during years, during last 2 weeks i took until 35 mg clorazepam, and now i 'm taking 15 mg again...i don't know if it will be ok...

 

Do you mean clorazepate? 

 

On 12/19/2019 at 1:36 AM, Lina1001 said:

3 am: 10 mg clorazepate and 12,5 tercian

4 am : 12,5 tercian

6 pm: took dimeticone ( stomac bandage),

8:30 pm 15 mg clorazepate

 

 

17 hours ago, Lina1001 said:

5 pm: dimoticone

9.3 pm:15 mg clorazepate

 

Two thoughts:

(1) It's very important to take your drugs at the same time and dose each day. So you'll need to decide how much of each of these drugs you need to be comfortable (not symptom free, but comfortable) and then get on a regular schedule. The off-and-on use of tercian and the irregular dosing of clorazepate is likely causing some of your symptoms.

 

(2) Please verify what dimoticone is. I googled it and it's listed as a head lice, but from what you've written it sounds like you're taking a stomach medicine. 

 

 

[Lina1001]

Hi Shep ! 

 

Yes i meant clorazepate !

dimoticone is a stomach bandage.

i feel ok today, a bit stressed by the decresase of clorazepate. But it's ok, i'm now taking my clorazepate dose i used to during years and which i had to increase during past two weeks.

i don't take anymore tercian and i will never take it again.

being in this clinic made me understand the links between sometimes some symptomes and psychologist causes.

of course with the cold turkey, those bad emotions get into very bad symptomes. And most of the time, it's just cold turkey.

but i feel free, cause i won't take ecsitalopram again. The  worst symptomes ( never ended panic attacks are in my back) since one week. Their have a true psychologic cause that i can identify and handle it gently with car for my self. i'm gonna do EMDR therapy again in january, i really need it ! It's a new beginning for me, with better roots. To deal with CT and psycho behaviors is

 a full time job. But i have got skills now to avoid panic attacks. I go back home tomorrow, and i'm gonna practice what i have learn about my beheviors in the real life ! 

I feel confident.

when i feel stable with this dose of clorazepate, i'll start tapering with your advice.

 

thanks for your support.

 

kiss from France  where it's now nighty 

 

to folow, my today's diary...

 

[Lina1001]

Journal of wenesday th 20th of december 2019

 

5.3 am : 8 hours sleep, electric discharge in harms, tachi (1/10), diziness 3/10, slight tinnitus,weekness 5/10

feeling slight excited, slights elocution difficulties

3 cigarettes

8 am: breakfast + cigarette 

9 am: shortness of breath, tachi weekness diziness increased

9.5 am: slept 2 hours and a quater, woke up: diziness 5/10, bodyburns 3/10, tachi 0/10,  tinnitus 8/10

12 am: had meal+ cigarette: feeling anxious, gastric hach, diziness, bad emotion: 

afternoon: nausea, tachi, bad emotion, shortness of breath

had a good walk in the parc, pottery, painting, felt better at the end of the afternoon.

6 pm: weekness, nausea, took dimoticone, head hach

6.3 pm: had meal, nausea, headhach, tachi

8.5 pm: took 15 mg clorazepate

 

to sumarize:

- some symptomes of decreasing clorazepate ( diziness, electric discharges in harms), felt a bit excited, slight difficulties of elocution

- some symptomes of bad emotion ( nausea, gastric pain) handled with soft therapy with more or less success

- when smoking cigarettes symptomes increase

- slept more, less weekness !!!

- had a short window without tachi !!!

- had a better day than yesterday !!!

- smoked more cigarettes

 

so: i have to quit smoking slowly, and watch out if the symptomes of decreasing clorazepate are still here tomorrow.

 

thanks for your support

 

[Vegalia]

Hello Lina, 

 

You Are so  brave. 

 

J'essaie de m'inspirer de ton courage. 

 

Je pense très fort à toi dans cette épreuve. 

 

Bisous

 

Vega. 

[Lina1001]

Thanks Vega,

 

i'm taking it. Inspiring woah ! I'm taking it.

the last emdr session made a big change in me, i realized i used to give a lot to every body and was not able to receive back, even a thanks or a compliment. Something inside me stopped every mark of love i could receive. Even in my own family.  So I was giving good energy and couldn't receive it back. So i felt more and more empty of good energy. And here comes weekness and depression.

Now, it's a kind of victory for me, i can say i like myself without condition, and i am now able to help myself to heal, to be soft with myself, to respect myself, no more, no less.

I'm steel feeling a bit guilty about writing that down, so I have to work on it again ! 😉

 

You're also very very brave. We are all. I don't consider myself as heal now. I feel bad with all those symptomes but, i considere it as a healing crise, spiritual crise ( not religious) 

spiritual because it's what we are inside deeply who wants to grow and be ok, and that's it.

i often listen to a very good meditation by olivier Lockert.

it's on internet, it's free, here is the link if you want to...

 

http://free-hypnosis-mp3.com/f

my favorite is : confiance en soi et ballade méditative

 

in the clinic , i met so many people being medicated and still not feeling well, some very young, i told some about the problem with medication ( of course it's not the only probleme...) and one is going to join the french forum.

i have notices that people are very often stopped by receiving true love. And in my little opinion, that's the big part of the problem. I experineced it and i can see it in most of the people i've met here. Also they don't know how much strong their are. So i tell them, see all the bad thing you're making against yourself, see that power ! 😎Imagine you use that power in a different way now... 🙃and they were hopefull again🙂for a while...🥺 being human is a full time job ! 😜

 

 

they are as lost as the psychologists. They don't know that they are experiencing healing crises. They think they just heal and guilty to be heal. It's a pity for me.

 

it's cool that I'm leaving now, and experience real life. 

 

 

Love and support Vega !😘

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

Hello @Lina1001 

 

Thank you so much ! 

What a wonderful words. 

I will try your meditation. 

Courage. 

 

Kisses 

 

Vega. 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, Lina1001 said:

dimoticone is a stomach bandage.

 

Do you need this drug a lot? Do you know what is causing your stomach troubles, such as a side effect of any of the drugs you've been on?

 

You may find this thread helpful: 

 

Digestive problems: nausea, diarrhoea, bloating, GERD

 

Ginger or peppermint tea can help, and there are some other tips in that thread. 

 

21 hours ago, Lina1001 said:

i feel ok today, a bit stressed by the decresase of clorazepate. But it's ok, i'm now taking my clorazepate dose i used to during years and which i had to increase during past two weeks.

i don't take anymore tercian and i will never take it again.

 

Was the tercian an "as needed" drug? If you took it for a month or more every day, you may be dependent on it and stopping it can cause withdrawal. 

 

I'm glad you're back to the dose you were on prior to the increase over the past two weeks and you are feeling ok.

 

18 hours ago, Lina1001 said:

so: i have to quit smoking slowly, and watch out if the symptomes of decreasing clorazepate are still here tomorrow.

 

Yes, gradually stopping smoking is best. Please let us know how you're doing over the coming days with the clorazepate decrease.

 

It's great you slept 8 hours. 

[Lina1001]

Hi Shep ! Thanks for your answer !

 

I didn't know that about this stomach bandage, thanks, I' m gonna stop it.

I took tercian during the 2 last weeks just panics attacks couldn't be stopped by clorazepate.

i have never take it before in my life.  And i never will again.

 

I started being on those drugs about 20 years ago. At the beginning, switch from one drug to another was usual.

And i tried to  taper unsuccessfully so many times in my life, my doctors always told me to take it back because I was not ready

enough. I'm asking myself if I'm not on withdrawal since a very long time thinking about all kinds of symptomes as sides effects from drugs whether they could have been from withdrawal... I think it was both  ! 

 

i'm back home and i feel good today.

I will let you know about the decreased effects of clorazepate: at 4 pm: no more electric discharges in harms, no elocution problems, don't feel anormaly ecited.

but I have right leg pain this morning becoming leg burns sensation now. 

 

Can i take desmodium plant to protect the liver ? 

 

thanks for your support ! Have a good day !

to follow my diary day...

 

[Lina1001]

Journal of saturday the 21th of december 2019

 

5.45: wake up, slept 7h45, tinnitus 7/10, head hach 3/10, NO NAUSEA, NO TACHI !, right foot pain

8 am: weekness 3/10, shortness of breath 3/10, tremors 2/10, diziness 2/10

8.5 am: breakfast then weekness 6/10

10 am: diziness 5/10, weekness 6/10

11 am: diziness 7/10, couldn't sleep while i needed to

11.5 am : get out of the clinic

12 am: meal

1.5 pm: weekness 6/10, tachi 5/10, shortness of breath 4/10

had a 2 hours nap

4 pm: woke up, body burns, right leg pain, tremors, diziness, tachi3/10

5.5 pm: walk one hour then less leg pain, shortness of breath, tachi 4/10m

some bad emotions, feelings half part gone with walk and meditation

8 pm: had meal, slow and bad digestion, head hach, tachi 3/10, diziness, body hachs, weekness 3/10

8.5 pm : took clorazepate 15 mg then more weekness, and more bad digestion

11 pm :  slept

 

summarize: the decreased of clorazepate seems to be ok today again, it ´s been 4 days now, i keep on observing carfully....to be continued...

no explaination for the right leg pain, new symptome

 

have a good day