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Pens: Starting Over

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Pens
7 hours ago, Pens said:

Hi, this is new ground for me, So from your experience  and talking with others do you think this might help with my with drawl symptoms.? Im not functioning very well through the day. 

Please disregard this question, had a bad day today. I know I need to decide based on my symptoms. Thank you. 

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mustafa
On 12/22/2019 at 10:21 PM, Pens said:

feet, Dizzy, nauseous, tense, tremors occasional itchy scalp and under forearms etc. I feel sedated in the morning and maybe the only good thing is I get

Hi pens, 

Sorry you have bad day today.

Your symptomts are almost the same for me physically, we may differ in some, but the feeling of sedated and itchy scalp is the same for me, this is because we have neurosmitters that don't work and numb so you should have this physical feeling.

I don't know alot about mirtazapine, I had alot of antidepressants but never had it.

I came here to support u and I hope Iam  doing this for u.

Hope u have relief.

Hugs 

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Pens

@mustafa, Morning Mustafa, thank you for your reply. Good to know that this could be a symptom to mirtazapine, but at the same time I’m hoping it doesn’t get worse. Woke up with another rash on my arm.Did your rash diminish as you decreased your dosage. Heard that you are having good luck with your tapering. Glad that you can now Visit with friends and family. Thank you for answering and for your support. Have a good day. Hugs back

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Pens

I tapered to 1,8 ml Last night because I got a red rash on my neck and under arms. I don’t know if this is a symptom of mirtazapine or not. Have felt nauseous all day and dizzy.

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Pens
On 1/9/2020 at 2:45 PM, Gridley said:

click on that box and @Gridley will appear and Gridley will be notified that you mentioned him.

 

Regarding going on Mirtazapine to come off Pristiq, we don't make recommendations about changing one drug to go off another.  That is between you and your doctor.  

Ok, thank you for your help.

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Shep
On 1/8/2020 at 9:51 AM, Pens said:

6:15 Tylenol with codeine,

 

On 1/9/2020 at 3:10 PM, Pens said:

Im not functioning very well through the day. 

 

You've been using various drugs for a cold, including cough syrup, gravol (dimenhydrinate), salbutamol (albuterol), and now you mention codeine. You're sick and full of all sorts of drugs right now, so of course you're not functioning well. But I fear you're conflating this with withdrawal symptoms and trying to fix it by making adjustments to your psych drugs. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Pens said:

I tapered to 1,8 ml Last night because I got a red rash on my neck and under arms. I don’t know if this is a symptom of mirtazapine or not. Have felt nauseous all day and dizzy.

 

I placed your drugs in the drug interaction checker and there are numerous drug interactions:

 

Drug interaction checker report

 

Please note gravol is dimenhydrinate and salbutamol is albuterol in that report. 

 

Once you've recovered from your cold and cough, then you can better asses your withdrawal symptoms and can make a plan to taper off. You'll need to decide if taking codeine or other drugs to aid with your cold is more harm than help due to the side effects and adverse drug interactions. If so, then try some natural, holistic remedies and once you've recovered from this illness, reassess where you're at with your psych drugs. 

 

 

On 1/9/2020 at 7:20 AM, Pens said:

12:00 a.m. took l 50 mg gravol

 

11:00 couldn’t sleep, took 2 gravol 50 mg 

 

Please be consistent with your gravol (dimenhydrinate) doses. Some nights you're taking one 50 mg pill and other nights you're taking two 50 mg pills.

 

Stomach issues and dizziness are listed as adverse drug interactions in this drug interaction report I linked above. I don't know if your rash is from this or not, but mirtazapine and dimenhydrinate are both histamine antagonists, so you may be getting some allergy-type side effects. 

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Pens

@Shep, thank you shep for this information. My cold/flu is getting better. The rash still scares me. I don’t want to have to stop mirtazapine so will see if I can stabilize at 1.8 mg. I’m not tolerating tea (using for cold) at the moment. Went in for food allergy tests and am waiting to hear back. The salbutamol is for breathing and when I wake up in the middle of the night gravol is the only thing that helps me get back to sleep. I’ll just take one if I have to. I’ll take Tylenol ES. Without the codeine. I don’t know what I can do about the salbutamol because I have asthma. . I will review what I’m taking. I wasn’t aware of the interactions. Thanks again. Have a good day. 

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manymoretodays
1 hour ago, Pens said:

I don’t want to have to stop mirtazapine so will see if I can stabilize at 1.8 mg.

 

This sounds like a good idea Pens.  I'm hoping the rash and some of the extra nervousness type symptoms, start to resolve as you minimize additional medications/drugs.

Please check with your doctor if that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Thankyou.  (((((Pens)))))

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

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Pens
2 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

is sounds like a good idea Pens.  I'm hoping the rash and some of the extra nervousness type symptoms, start to resolve as you minimize additional medications/drugs.

Please check with your doctor if that doesn't seem to be the case.

Ok I will. 😊Will be nice to be able to shed some of the unnecessary symptoms.

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Pens

@mustafa hi hope you are well and happy, Would you mind if I ask if it’s normal to feel really tired and dizzy when you taper down on your dose. I know everyone’s different but I am feeling a bit scared as my symptoms today were very strong. If I know that this is what is expected then it will give me courage. Thank you for your support.

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Altostrata

Is the rash better or worse at any particular times of day?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs?

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Pens

@manymoretodays
 

My heart beat is irradic and I’m still itchy I don’t know if I should cut back more on tapering or go cold turkey. I’m just afraid there will be nothing out there to taper down on and both my .gp and psychiatrist told me to just stop before I started tapering. Guess I’ll just have to stop. 

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Pens
10 hours ago, Altostrata said:

s the rash better or worse at any particular times of day?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs?

Hi Altostrata, seems to be more frequently in the morning now. Before not as often and I think it was in the afternoon. My heart was fluttering this morning and my neck  and chest are itchy burning sensation on neck. My tongue also tastes bitter and ive had problems with itchy scalp since last year. I take mirtazapine at 8:30 p.m. Because salbutamol interacts with mirtazapine I have had to take nasonex nasal spray off and on to help with breathing. Took nasonex before bedtime last night. 

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Pens
1 hour ago, Pens said:

s the rash better or worse at any particular times of day?

I’ve noticed  that since I started making mirtazapine into a liquid form I’ve been having these reactions more frequently. Could that be causing me to have a reaction. Can I get a scale to measure the pill in powder form from a jewelry store? I’m down to 1.8 ml. 

 

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Pens

After reading one of the topics, I wonder if I’m having problems with histamine and since mirtazapine has histamine could I be having intolerance issues. If so should I stay away from high histamine foods? Would taking a Benadryl also help? Tonight I’m going to cut my pill but don’t know.what sort of weigh scale to buy for smaller doses or where to buy it. 

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manymoretodays

Pens,

If I were you.....I would.......try, try, try to stay put now.  Let  your nervous system shake on out all the additional drugs you have been tinkering with.  The codeine, for one.

Sure, try some low histamine foods, watch your diet.  As you are using Gravol, which is not a bad choice by the way, now, with your mirtazapine,  I sure wouldn't do another switcharoo and start using Benadryl now.  That would be yet another dose change event.

 

No reason to switch your mirtazapine formulation back to solid right now.

I mean planning for a switch over to solid is all fine and dandy.  But jumping into, what we do consider a dose change event, may not be in your best interest.

Dose change events= are considered to be things like a drug formulation change(we usually have members go slow with crossovers from liquid to solid forms),  additions of new drugs,  changes in dosages, etc.

It's best to minimize the dose change events. 

Do you follow?  Does that make sense?  Sometimes, no change, is the best you can do, for a period of time, while waiting for everything to shake on out, and your nervous system to settle a bit.  You've been adding, subtracting, and doing frequent changes.  That kind of thing matters and can and will affect your healing and stabilization A LOT.

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Is the rash better or worse at any particular times of day?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs?

Can you give us another day....... of times on the left, on the right put the drugs taken(all of them) by name and dose.  Also put, on the right, your symptoms......things like the rash, any other symptoms too.  That just helps give us a clearer picture of what is going on right now.  And is very helpful.  I think you did one already.  I'll give you the sample format.

Daily notes

Example/sample:


DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch

4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

Pens, I had to get all this stuff reiterated to me over and over again too, when I first came on board.  Give us today's notes tomorrow.  Or make your best try to do so. 

 

oh sweetie, (((((Pens))))

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

The rule of 3KIS, slow, simple, stable

 

Edited by manymoretodays
3 KIS link added

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Gridley
2 hours ago, Pens said:

onight I’m going to cut my pill but don’t know.what sort of weigh scale to buy for smaller doses or where to buy it. 

 

Many members use the AWS Gemini-20 scale available on Amazon.

 

The GEMINI-20 Scale

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

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Pens
29 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Also put, on the right, your symptoms......things like the rash, any other symptoms too.  That just helps give us a clearer picture of what is going on right now.  And is very helpful.  I think you did one already.  I'll give you the sample format.

January 9, 2020

6 1/2 hours sleep

6:00 a.m. woke up, had breakfast

feeling nauseous, trembling and depressed, tongue tastes bitter, slight burning sensation 

6:30 a.m. salbutamol 2 puffs

10:00 a.m. a bit of a window (not as dizzy, less brain fog, went for short walk in sun

12:00 lunch, salbutamol inhaler 2 puffs, Flovent 1 puff, feeling dizzy, weak, 

4:00 p.m. heart pounding, rash on neck and arms, burning sensation in throat, lightheaded

6:00 p.m. dizzy and sick to stomach

8:00 p.m. mirtazapine 1.8 mg.mixed with rice milk

 

January 10, 2020

7 hours sleepy

Morning, rash on right arm, nausea, sore stomach, less tense ( sorry didn’t write down time)  tongue tastes bitter, slight burning sensation 

8:00 a.m. breakfast,  had whole wheat toast, milk and honey, naturalpath told me to eat food that I thought might be bothering me because I had to go in for a blood test at 11:00 a.m.

10:00 a.m. salbutamol 2 puffs

2: p.m. tongue burning and numb at same time, tastes bitter

5:00 p.m. salbutamol inhaler 2 puffs

6:45 2 gaviscon for upset stomach 

7:00 p.m. rash or red and itchy on left arm

8:15 p.m. 1.8 ml liquid mirtazapine mixed with rice milk

9:00 Epson salt bath and oatmeal

10:20 p.m. bedtime 


January 11, 2020

7 hrs sleep, woke up around 1:00 p.m. took 1 50 mg. Gravol

a.m. Nausea, REALLY DIZZY and confused, hot and cold, stopped drinking tea, tongue slightly burning and bitter

8:15 breakfast accidentally drank oat milk

9:15 a.m. itchy arm and neck, red 

cold hands and feet

10:30 a.m. toast and jam

8:30 p.m. 1.8 mg liquid mirtazapine with rice milk

10:00 oatmeal and arrowroot cookies pistachios 

11:00 p.m. bedtime

 

My scalp was never itchy up until last year then doctor gave me a prescription for betaderm 0.1%. I don’t use it very often instead I use head and shoulders shampoo every day or every other day. This helps with the itch. I am very sensitive to dyes , perfume, and have seasonal allergies. 
 

thankyou for your time and patience 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Pens
1 hour ago, Gridley said:

members use the AWS Gemini-20 scale available on Amazon.

Thank you for your reply, I have made a note of that. Have a good day

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Altostrata
6 hours ago, Pens said:

I’ve noticed  that since I started making mirtazapine into a liquid form I’ve been having these reactions more frequently. Could that be causing me to have a reaction. Can I get a scale to measure the pill in powder form from a jewelry store? I’m down to 1.8 ml. 

 

 

What reactions? When did they start?

 

When did the itching start?

 

Since you don't get itching after you take mirtzapine at night, it's probably not from the mirtazapine. In fact, from the symptom pattern you just posted, it appears to be a reaction to salbutamol, as are the palpitations. Please read up on salbutamol side effects on drugs.com.

 

The antihistamine aspect of mirtazapine is not relevant.

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Pens
2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:
7 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

read up on salbutamol side effects on drugs.com.

 

The antihistamine aspect of mirtazapine is not relevant.

 

Ok thankyou.

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mustafa
22 hours ago, Pens said:

@mustafa hi hope you are well and happy, Would you mind if I ask if it’s normal to feel really tired and dizzy when you taper down on your dose. I know everyone’s different but I am feeling a bit scared as my symptoms today were very strong. If I know that this is what is expected then it will give me courage. Thank you for your support.

Hi pens, 

So sorry for being delayed to reply to u, iam really very very sorry.

My answer is yes, expect any thing weired from withdrawals and yes, when you taper down and as I think, your brain suffer more but to heal more.

Don't be scared and if you can be never scared, do this.

Everything is normal.

For me and as I suffer depersonalization, I feel sometimes that my eyes are off despite they are opening, I was like blind when in the street, I do get better but before getting better, worsening is a must.

Watch the healing pattern videos when you forget the behaviour of withdrawals.

It always helps and strengthen u.

Don't worry because this is the withdrawals, weired😧.

Good night dear and very sorry again for lateness❤️

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Pens
14 hours ago, Pens said:

Also put, on the right, your symptoms......things like the rash, any other symptoms too.  That just helps give us a clearer picture of what is going on right now.  And is very helpful.  I think you did one already.  I'll give you the sample format.

January 12, 2020

forgot was to mention that I had pistachios the evening of Jan. 11th

4 hours sleep

6:00 a.m. really itchy neck, chest, arms, and scalp skin red

nauseous, trembling, heart fluttering, drank some apple juice 

9:00 a.m. rash calming down 

9:30 a.m. breakfast, fruit smoothie with yogurt 

11:p.m. snack pear

12:00 p.m. cold hands, took 1 Aerius 12 hour release for breathing 

2:00 p.m. SAD lamp

3:00 p.m. some burning sensation on my face, breathing improved

5:00 p.m. turkey supper

8:20 p.m. 1.8 ml mirtazapine solution, drank with rice milk

8:50 p.m. saline nasal rinse

9:00 p.m. tense all day until now

10:30 bedtime?

 

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Pens

Morning, I’m having trouble breathing. Can’t use Buckley’s or salbutamol but I have a Flovent inhaler. Put it in the drug checker for interactions and there are none. 

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Pens

January 13, 2020

Drinking more milk for protein

1 AM woke up, gravol

Three hours sleep

5 AM got up

Nausea indigestion itchy scalp sore stomach, drank Milk and apple juice

5:30 AM, some Redness on left shoulder and itchy, used anti itch cream

6 AM tongue a bit numb, scalp itchy

7:45 AM heart fluttering

8:30 AM restless dizzy lightheaded nausea had a pear, toast and rice milk for breakfast

9:30 AM Flovent one puff, Aerius allergy pill

11 AM lunch

2 PM no energy cold hands and feet, lethargic, no appetite

2:30 PM egg and a glass of milk

5 PM doughnut and hot chocolate

6 PM supper

6:30 PM nasal rinse, hands and feet warming up

7 PM starting to feel better

9:30 PM 1.8 ml Mirtazapine solution

10:30 PM gravol

11:30 p.m. ginger cookies and milk

 

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manymoretodays

Hi Pens,

Don't forget to add in the doses in milligrams(mg).

Gravol.  And I know that your mirtazapine solution is 1 mg per 1 mL,  Go ahead and write it in your notes as 1 mg.

Maybe that Gravol isn't doing as much for you as it used to.

Can you split those tablets and perhaps take just 1/2 of a 50 mg.?

 

On 1/13/2020 at 7:17 AM, Pens said:

Morning, I’m having trouble breathing. Can’t use Buckley’s or salbutamol but I have a Flovent inhaler.

Any relief yesterday with the steroid inhaler?  

 

And then be cautious and careful with the allergy stuff.  Aerius is an antihistamine.  Gravol is an antihistamine.  And your anti-itch cream is made up of what?  You can easily look these things up too, if you can't find them on Drugs.com, even a general google search leads one to the active ingredients.

I just don't want you to inadvertently be taking too many drugs from one class of drug. 

 

I think if I were you, when needed, and if spaced out from the time that you take your mirtazapine, you might do okay with an occasional rescue inhalation of your albuterol.

Do you have any non-drug things that have helped you in the past with your asthma or other sensitivities? 

I mean I use lotion for skin dryness.....as I am in a very dry(overall) climate.  The good stuff.  And once in awhile take a oatmeal bath.......I just use the ready made colloidal oatmeal preparations.

 

And oh my, some of the withdrawal syndrome symptoms can get/feel scary.  For the most part though.......with those who have gone in for all kinds of testing........there is nothing that comes up.  It's all due to this autonomic nervous system disarray or dysfunction that kicks in.  The cold hands and feet, palpations, etc, etc.

 

Pens, your notes look good, I think you are doing just fine for right now.  Head on over to the symptoms and self care forum and start getting familiar with some of the myriad of coping skills that you get to try now.  This whole thing, the WD thing, can become a really good preparation for learning to deal with other stuff too.......or it has for me.  Regaining oneself and all.

 

Okie doke.

Best.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited by manymoretodays

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Pens
2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Morning, I’m having trouble breathing. Can’t use Buckley’s or salbutamol but I have a Flovent inhaler.

Good morning, thanks for your reply. I’m so glad you said that I could use my salbutamol inhaler once in a while as I Im struggling with breathing, even with the Flovent.That’s why I take the Aerius for allergies. Also the nasonex ,nasal spray does help. Buckley’s really helped but I know I can’t take that one at all. I’m trying to get more protein in my diet by drinking milk etc. Glad to know that the symptoms are from withdrawal. There are times when I feel like I’m going crazy. I’m not getting much sleep now as it is and I’m afraid if I cut back anymore on my gravol 50 ml, I won’t get any. i’ve tried a few nights without gravol and I’ve gotten next to no sleep. May I ask a question, is an itchy scalp a withdrawal symptom? I’m looking forward to a bit of improvement. Actually my breathing has improved and my hands and feet aren’t as cold. The cream I used was Benadryl for the itchy burning sensation, not so much for the dryness. You’re right about a learning experience. I’ve learned to appreciate life more and how amazing our bodies are made and how brave and compassionate people are to each other on this site. Even though they aren’t feeling well themselves.  Will head over to the symptoms and health care forum. Have a good day. Thanks for your time and support. 
 

Pens, PTL

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Pens

Morning @manymoretodays,

January 14, 2020

a.m. Cold all over, dizzy, stomach has settled (haven’t had to use gaviscon), trying to get more protein in my diet

ate a lot of cookies and had milk at 11 PM the night before, that seems to be the time I get really hungry. I’m not going to eat at that time anymore.

Approximately five hours sleep

12 A.M.gravol 50 mg

5:30 AM woke up small panic attack, heart fluttering

8 AM itchy arms 

9 AM a bit more energetic

9:45 AM took a multivitamin for women over 60

11:15 AM Flovent  125 mcg two puffs 

11:35 Aerius 

12:00 breathing improved, warming up

12:30 PM lunch

3:15 PM went for a short walk
snack cherries and raisins

3 PM to 4 PM feeling good, warmed up

5 PM nasal rinse

6:05 p.m. nasonex 50 mcg,

6:30 p.m. nasal rinse, cold feet

8:30 a.m. hands and feet warmer

9: p.m. mirtazapine 1.8 ml. 
9:30 itchy scalp, heart rate increased, chest and throat felt tight

10:00 p.m. symptoms letting up a bit

10:30 p.m. magnesium citrate 25 mg, bedtime

 

 

 

 

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Pens

II’m  going to try melatonin spray tonight and, Aerius  2.5 ml of desloratadine and 120 ml of pseudoephedrine Sulphate 12 hour release. Having trouble breathing. I struggle with allergies. Took Aerius yesterday through the day and felt a bit better. have trouble at night, waking up gasping for air. Not getting much sleep.

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Pens
On 1/14/2020 at 10:56 AM, manymoretodays said:

Morning, I’m having trouble breathing

I understand what you’re saying by not changing meds and about the histamine overload. I would like to continue with the daytime Aerius because it is helping with my allergies which I have struggled with most of my life. I won’t use the salbutamol or Flovent. I would like to try half of (25 mg) diphenhydramine hydrochloride instead of the gravol. I’m suffering from lack of sleep and I know from my history that my allergies are bad. I appreciate your help and don’t want to lose it. I’ll try to stick with what I have now. I’m hoping I can get my allergies under control and get some much needed sleep. I put a vaporizer in my room like you suggested and took an oatmeal bath. Both of which have worked well. So does the drug checker. I had warm hands and feet today! And my stomach is getting better. Yes it is very frustrating to get blood tests only to have them come back showing nothing wrong with you. I’m grateful to be healthy but the mind, as I am learning, rules the body.  Ive come to appreciate the people around me and my husband is very supportive. Thank you I very much appreciate your advice and help. 

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Pens

@manymoretodays

 

I would like to make a correction On the above list. Instead of taking the Benadryl Or diphenhydramine I would take a gravol. I see what you mean by too many antihistamines. Went to drug checker again and see my mistake. 

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Pens

January 15, 2020

a.m. Cold hands and feet, racing thoughts, dizzy, tightness in chest, dry cough

4 1/2 hours sleep 

12:00 a.m. went to sleep

2:00 a.m. woke up took 50 mg gravol

5 a.m. woke up, restless last night, bad taste in mouth

8:00 a.m. breakfast, feeling agitated

10:00 a.m. salbutamol 100 mcg, 2 puffs

1:15 p.m. Aerius 12 hr release, 2.5 mg desloratadine, 120 mg pseudoephedrine 

1:00 breathing better

3:00 warm hands and feet 

8:00 p.m. anxiety, feeling broken

8:15 p.m. mirtazapine 1.8 ml of solution 

9:00 p.m. itchy all over

10:00 a bit dizzy but feeling normal 

 

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manymoretodays

Hey Pens,
Well, take advantage of your 2 hour window then between 10am and midnight.  Maybe get on up out of bed when you early wake up and go quietly and try some calming things.  Have something to eat, if your usual eating habits have been thrown.  And there is melatonin to try too, after a wake-up or at bedtime.......just a small dose at first, to see if you are going to react to that even.  Most don't react.....but one must proceed with caution.  I use a sublingual, dissolves under the tongue and found a 1 mg  sublingual made by Superior Source.  It's a small little thing, yet, could be divided in half or into a small crumb.  And then just close your eyes again and voila.......more sleep.  You are not doing badly overall with the sleep now.  I think perhaps the cortisol is kicking on in too, making you feel so anxious.

managing the morning cortisol spike

Tips to help sleep

^ this one has the link to the melatonin topic too

 

 

18 hours ago, Pens said:

I see what you mean by too many antihistamines. Went to drug checker again and see my mistake. 

Desloratine is yet another antihistamine though.  And pseudophedrine can definitely be shaky and anxious inducing.  We'd really limit usage in kids, back when I worked in peds(pediatrics).  And now I understand much more to the whys of that too.  Kid have more shaky, dys regulated nervous systems in general.......just like we do, when WD syndrome hits.  And.......as your cold or flu bug is now mostly healed, it's probably not going to help much with your ongoing allergic symptoms and sensitivities.  Those sensitivities, by the way, may be really on an upswing now too, due to WD syndrome.  Some may settle down, as time goes on.

 

Okay.....you're all lined up now for reading tonight, and more learning about non-drug coping.

Best sweetie,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited by manymoretodays

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