☼ Pina: Cymbalta/Duloxetine - withdrawals after zero

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

I am 41 years old. In 2011 I got Cymbalta because of a severe depressive episode.

 

I started weaning in 2013 in a four weeks rhythm. I always reduced between 5 and 10% of the last dose. The last steps were a lot smaller. One bead every four weeks. 

(120mg to zero 2013 - 2018)

 

Because of the slow weaning I was able to get my life well regulated.

 

Sometimes there were bad withdrawal symptoms and sometimes a little less, there were windows and waves. 

 

I've been at zero for 16 months now.The first year after zero was mixed with windows and waves, but now I have only one wave to the next wave since eight month after zero. Nausea, Back pain, anxiety, itching, muscle pain, dizziness and many other things.

 

I always read the story from Pug here. It is my anchor in this difficult time. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Pina.  Congratulations on being Cymbalta-free and on doing such an admirably slow taper.  

 

Your symptoms are typical protracted withdrawal symptoms.  I'm sorry you're not getting any windows lately, but they will return.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (post-acute withdrawal ...

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions, post updates and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your ways here.

 

 

 

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

thx for your answer. 

I am also a very sensitive member and I don't tolerate the most supplements or medicine. Sometimes I take magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil),  but sometimes I don't tolerate that too.

Sometimes I also bathe in epsom salt.

 

I already know a lot about weaning and how to deal with weaning symptoms. What I miss is the exchange with others. with people who give you hope because they have made it or are already as far as me.

 

People who don't have experienced it theirself can't really understand it an the most doctors don't really help. 

 

 

 

[gardenlady]

On 12/21/2019 at 3:23 PM, Pina said:

Hello, 

 

I am 41 years old. In 2011 I got Cymbalta because of a severe depressive episode.

 

I started weaning in 2013 in a four weeks rhythm. I always reduced between 5 and 10% of the last dose. The last steps were a lot smaller. One bead every four weeks. 

(120mg to zero 2013 - 2018)

 

Because of the slow weaning I was able to get my life well regulated.

 

Sometimes there were bad withdrawal symptoms and sometimes a little less, there were windows and waves. 

 

I've been at zero for 16 months now.The first year after zero was mixed with windows and waves, but now I have only one wave to the next wave since eight month after zero. Nausea, Back pain, anxiety, itching, muscle pain, dizziness and many other things.

 

I always read the story from Pug here. It is my anchor in this difficult time. 

 

 

 

 

 

Pina, Wow....congrats on getting off of Cymbalta.  I'm amazed that even after a 5 year taper you had/are still having withdrawals.  I would have thought that such a long, slow taper would have mitigated such a lengthy post-taper recovery with so many symptoms.  I guess that explains why, despite my doing a very slow taper, I'm still having withdrawal symptoms that are severe enough to render me nearly non-functional.  When I finish my taper, it will have taken about 4.5 to 5 years....similar to you.  The difference is that I'm not able to live a normal life while tapering as you did.  Anyway, I certainly do understand what you are going through and I'm so thrilled for you that you are off the neurotoxin.  

[Pina]

Hello gardenlady, 

I'm sorry that your withdrawal symptoms are so extreme. 

 

It is very important only to reduce when you are reasonably stable.  It is also important to know that the withdrawals occur wird a time delay. During my weaning, the second and third week of a 4-5 week rhythm were the worst. Sometimes I had to wait longer than four to five weeks to take the next step. 

It is important to listen to your body.  

I also had very bad phases when I reduced to quickly or to much of the dose . Most of the time I only reduced between 5% and 7% of the last dose and towards the end the steps were much smaller.

This medicine is a lousy traitor.

I wish you much strength and patience.

Merry Christmas. 

Best regards, 

Pina

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

happy new year.

Today I am 18 month after zero. I still have changing withdrawal symptoms. More waves than windows since the 8th month at zero.

Current:

Strong pressure on the bladder. Itching on the leg. Chest pressure in the morning. Bad skin. Exhausted and heavy limbs.

 

I hope it gets better this year.

 

Best regards, 

Pina

 

[gardenlady]

Pina, I'm so sorry that you are still suffering so badly after doing a long, slow and proper taper.  It just goes to show how toxic and dangerous these drugs are.

 

I realize it's been a long time since you tapered, but do you recall how you managed it when you were around the 27 bead/5.2 mg stage?  That's where I am currently and of course am dropping one bead at a time.  Do you recall how long you held between drop when at that level and how long you held as you went lower?  If I taper at a 5% rate, that means dropping 1 bead a month at this level and then increasing to 2, 3, 4,5 and 6 months between drops as I get lower.  If I go that slowly, it'll take me 5+ years to taper off of 5 mg.

 

Since the drug itself makes me sick (akathisia, doom/dread, dp/dr, insomnia, agoraphobia, personality disintegration), I can't tolerate being sick that many years more as I'm already 67 years old.  I'm wondering what to do and would value your input as you've already been through it.  At this point, I'm considering a Prozac bridge although I have no doctor to help as none in my area believes in antidepressant withdrawal much less has any clue about tapering them. 

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

I am actually 20month after zero from Cymbalta. 

Now and since the last 4 weeks I feel very bad. My stomach burns and I often have nausea.  Do someone of you knows that for so long too?

I'm really scared and depressed of it. 

 

#nausea #stomach #zero #month #help

[gardenlady]

Pina, I'm so sorry that a moderator hasn't responded to your post from yesterday.  I wish I had some encouraging words to offer you, but I suppose the only answer is that given more time, perhaps you will improve.  It's so sad that you tapered slowly and properly over five years yet are still suffering so terribly 20 months out.  It just goes to show how neurotoxic and dangerous these drugs are and that slow tapers can result in severe symptoms similar to rapid tapers.  I'm experiencing that, too, with my slow Cymbalta taper which has been brutal and agonizing the whole way down.  Apparently it takes many people years to heal, so just give it more time, as difficult as it is to hear.  

[Altostrata]

@Pina, I am sorry you're having such a difficult time.

 

It can take a very long time for post-acute withdrawal symptoms to fade. What are your symptoms like now?

[Pina]

Hello,

 

now I am 25 month after zero. Still have whitledraws. Back pain due to tension,

anxiety, desperateness, today I feel like depression,

I feel like I'm not getting healthy anymore.

It's so exhausting.

 

Thanks for your words. 

 

LG 

Pina

 

[Altostrata]

Pina, gentle chiropractic, acupuncture, osteopathic manual therapy, and physical therapy can help that pain.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

The magnesium can help muscles to relax. Epsom salts baths contain magnesium. The fish oil helps nerves to repair.

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

This is important: To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

 

 

 

[Pina]

Hello,

 

thanks for your answer. All these things I know and I use them. Sometimes they help, sometimes not. Just yesterday, I was to a manual therapist. Unfortunately, it always triggers a bit. But today is a better day. So I think more positive like yesterday. 

The best thing for me is a fast walk in the nature and to drink melissa or valerian tea.

 

But sometimes it is so hard or difficult and then I begin to doubt. I never thought it would such a long and difficult way after zero. I really dropped off slowly over 6 years... (120mg 2011 / 2013 - 2018 slow set down to zero) nevertheless for me it is like "after the drop off is before the drop off" 

cymbalta hurts a lot...   

 

 

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

This is important: To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

 

Please create your drug signature as requested above.  Thank you.

[Altostrata]

Yes, it is hard. We understand.

10 hours ago, Pina said:

The best thing for me is a fast walk in the nature and to drink melissa or valerian tea.

 

Do this as much as you can!

 

Thank you for your signature. Please come back and tell us how you're doing.

[Altostrata]

On 9/26/2020 at 11:39 PM, Pina said:

Hello Miomio, 

I'll answer you here. I hope that's ok for pug. I'am not a native english speaker so it's a difficult for me to write it in the right words. 

Yes, I weaned of very slow from 2013 to July 2018. I couldn't go faster because it was really difficult for me. But the most horrible time for me were the last 17 month. It begun 8 or nine month after zero. Dizziness, nausea, backache, anxietie, feeling of pressure on/in the chest, itching, musste pain, hair loss, dry mouth, blendung gums, racing heart, head ache, muscle tension and a lot of things I don't remember at the moment. But not always all at once.It's more like one thing replaced to an other thing. The last 17 month weren't a lot of windows. Only some really short windows for a few hours or a few days. 

But I notice that I'm fitter again. I can make more things. I am more myself again. 

The withdrawals are really bad and I hate it. Such a hard way for years and month. For me the hardest part of withdrawal came 8 or nine month after zero. It's tough, but I hope we keep healing too. Pug story is my anchor of hope. 

I would also like to hear about your current story. Gladly also in my thread.

 

LG 

Pina

 

 

[gardenlady]

Pina, How are you doing?  I think of you often and would love to hear from you.  I, too, am slow-tapering Cymbalta and having a horrendous time.  I recently cut from 12 beads (2.4 mg) to 11 beads (2.2mg) and words cannot describe the terror of what I'm experiencing.  Only you would know.  

 

I'm so sorry that you continue to suffer for two-plus years following your six-year taper.  It goes to show that a slow-taper is not the be-all-end-all solution that people in the withdrawal community claim it to be. 

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

it's difficult for me to write here because I am not a native englisch speaker. I understand a lot more than I can write. 

Actually I have a window after some very hard weeks.

The last few days I feel good. Only a little bit nausea. I laughed a lot and the most time I  feel happy. 

Yes, I can understand what you mean

and yes, it is as bad as hell.

I wish you a lot of strength.

 

My situation is often very difficult but there are although a lot of good things that had changed after zero. Now I am more myself, I can laugh again, make a little bit sport again, I feel more again and other little things. My life is more colourful than under cymbalta. 

 

Even if healing takes a long time for me, I think it was right and important to set off slowly.

 

I don't want to know how bad it would be otherwise. There are people that have hit it a lot more worse than me. 

 

It is important to make the last steps very slow and not too big. Even though I often feel very bad, I always participate in life. Unfortunately, not everyone can do that.

Wish you a good weekend. 

 

LG 

Pina

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for coming back to tell us how you are.  It is good to hear that you are doing okay.

 

Even though you have difficulty writing in English we can still understand most of what you write.

 

One of the moderators found a good translator the other day.  She speaks French and said that this translator works better than google translator.  https://www.deepl.com/translator

 

I thought I would try it:

Ich dachte, ich würde es versuchen:

 

Danke, dass Sie zurückgekommen sind, um uns mitzuteilen, wie es Ihnen geht.  Es ist schön zu hören, dass es Ihnen gut geht.

Auch wenn Sie Schwierigkeiten haben, auf Englisch zu schreiben, können wir das meiste von dem, was Sie schreiben, verstehen.

Einer der Moderatoren hat neulich einen guten Übersetzer gefunden.  Sie spricht Französisch und sagte, dass diese Übersetzerin besser arbeitet als Google-Übersetzer.

 

[Pina]

Hello, 

since 08.12.2020 I am 30 month free of medication.

I am not symptom free, but I am currently doing much better than it was 2 months ago.

LG 

Pina

[Leila]

@Pina, I read your story and I admire you for your strenght! I wish you will see more and more improvements from now! Thanks a lot for your positive update!

[manymoretodays]

Hi Pina, and your last update sounds good.

And so.......

 

Because you're feeling better, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

Edited January 10, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

thank you all for your last words. 

Today I'll give you an update: 

 

I am still struggling with whitledraws but I already feel better than the last two years. 

 

I still struggle the most with nausea. Often also an extremely dry mouth. In addition, there are always short phases of extreme nerve and muscle pain.

 

Sometimes I have extreme muscle twitches in the evening. 

But on the whole it's going quite well. Sometimes more, sometimes less. 

I can manage a lot more and my sense of humour is coming back more and more.

 

Except for Magensium, I don't take any medication or vitamins. I simply can't tolerate many things.

I try to eat healthy and drink almost only water.

 

When the time comes that I really feel good on a permanent basis, I will leave a success story but at this time it is still to early. 

 

But I believe that we heal. Slowly, but we are healing.

 

LG 

Pina

 

[DaBro]

So good to hear your progress @Pina  I have been zero since Nov 18, so am at 27 months. I had food intolerances in Q3 and bad tremors and facial twitches in Q4 2020 but so far in 2021 they seem to have stopped. I get mild Nausea and headaches but so much better than 12 months ago when I was stuck in bed with anxiety, sweating and no energy. 

 

My worst time is 2 hours before bed and 2 hours after waking. The daytime is normally good. I only take Omega 3 and Magnesium Glycinate.

 

I hope we are both writing our success stories soon. I wish you good health. 

[Leila]

Dear @Pina and @DaBro, your updates light in me the hope! Thank you very much for continue sharing it!🙏

[Pina]

Thanks for your words @DaBro and @Leila. 

The most time of this year I felt really better. But sometimes there are also some bad waves. 

 

"I hope we are both writing our success stories soon. I wish you good health." -

 

I hope it too. I wish you also good health and much power. 

 

Actually I had a very bad wave with nausea, stomach pain and a very extrem bitter taste in my mouth. 

I hate it so much and I hope it will get better soon. 

 

These symptoms scare me a bit and sometimes I ask myself if it's still from weaning (can it really be?) or whether it is something badly different.

 

Today I am 3 years and 5 month after zero. There are many good days but still many problems with the stomach.

 

Love regrads 

Pina

[Pina]

I am still in a big wave since the end of october 2021. My stomach pain is the most awful thing from all symptoms. I have also some back pain and a lot of neuroemotions. 

In addition, diffuse other symptoms such as stinging in the eye, bitter taste, shivers that run through the body, muscle pain
All this comes and goes - an alternation of symptoms. . . 

I haven't had such a strong wave in a very long time.

 

Hope it gets better soon. 

LG

Pina

 

[Pina]

I am in a terrible mood - 

This wave is rolling over me. It hasn't been this bad for months.

 

Changing symptoms
starting with muscle pain, back pain, knee pain, headache, pressure on the chest, hopelessness, cold spurts, tingling, red face, hot face, mild nausea
feeling of anxiety, fear of a bad disease.

Fear to die

 

 

[gardenlady]

Hi Pina.  I'm wondering how you are doing since it's been two months since you posted.  I check on you occasionally since I, too, did a slow 4.5 year Cymbalta taper from 60 mg but had a brutal, agonizing taper and withdrawal despite going slowly, as you did.   I'm so sorry you've suffered so much and for so long.  It's an atrocity that ignorant doctors and nurses prescribe these poisons.  If you are up to it, please post on how you are feeling.

 

I've been off 5.5 months and am still having a very bad time with insomnia, akathisia, fear, terror, dread and doom, personality disintegration and depersonalization.   Thankfully, the widespread bloody, itchy rashes that I had the whole time I was on Cymbalta have finally subsided, so it's obvious that it was drug-induced.  I don't have the fatigue, burning and pain many others do....my symptoms are mostly mental. 

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

sorry that I didn't answer. The last few month (since november) I am in a very bad mood. 

One wave to the next wave. 

I feel so bad. Anxiety, anxiety, anxiety... 

 

LG 

Pina

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

the last few weeks I feel better but its so difficult to write. I can not finde the right words. 

 

LG 

Pina

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

I am in a big big wave. It's so terrible. 

Since 3 weeks I have really problems with insomia. I feel so bad - and I must go work. 

 

I can't fall asleep properly anymore. Before I fall asleep, my chest muscle twitches and keeps me awake. 

I lie awake for hours. 

Nothing helps, no reading, no tea, no counting, no audio book.... 

Does anyone know this and does it go away?

 

(4 years and 5 month after zero)

 

LG 

Pina

[Pina]

Update: 

Now 4,5 years after zero. It is better but their are still big waves with a lot of withdrawals.

If I hadn't to do with disorders such as acthasia and sleep problems before, I have been struggling with them a lot in the last half year.

The following symptoms are currently recurring: 

Bitter taste
Muscle pain
Anxiety (triggered by antibiotics)
Insomnia or little sleep
Burning eyes
Headache 
Stitches in the face, mouth or body 
Hunger attacks
circling of thoughts
Catastrophic thinking 

Since antibotic problems again with histamine 

 

All this is not always there, but in between. Much was triggered by the Corona vaccinations, the Corona disease and an antibiotic treatment at the dentist. 

 

Unfortunately, I can not say that the waves become easier, but shorter and the windows are longer.

 

I hope that at some point I will finally heal properly.

 

 

[manymoretodays]

5 hours ago, Pina said:

Unfortunately, I can not say that the waves become easier, but shorter and the windows are longer.

 

I hope that at some point I will finally heal properly.

 

Hi Pina,

I think it is very likely.  A full recovery for you.

That is such an excellent sign that the waves are now shorter and windows longer.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

5 hours ago, Pina said:

All this is not always there, but in between. Much was triggered by the Corona vaccinations, the Corona disease and an antibiotic treatment at the dentist. 

 

Oh shoot on ^.  Good that you do recognize other factors though that could come into play here.

 

Many thanks for your continued updates Pina.  And I did find a couple topics relating to your symptoms you asked about in November.

Hypnic/hypnaogic jerks when falling asleep

-neuromuscular-symptoms-muscle-tics-twitches-fasciculations-spasms-cramps-restless-legs/

-strange-sensations-while-falling-asleep-surges-zaps-jerks/

 

And I know it can help to know that others do suffer the same symptoms post WD sometimes off and on.

So don't hesitate to search when you experience something now.  And here is a topic to help you do so:

How to Do a Site Search on Surviving Antidepressants

 

Try, try to stick with non-drug methods of coping as well.  And I can't wait for the day where you feel more consistently healed Pina!  It will come.  You have much patience, very admirable.

 

If and when you feel up to it, do come encourage and offer support on others threads too.  That's a good way to hasten healing.....it really is.  And......you'll have more interactions to, with others who "get it".  I read above that helps you quite a bit.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by manymoretodays

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

thanks @manymoretodays for your words and your help. 

 

I want to say, that bad waves are still coming but I can also say, that my life is much better than it was in January 2022. I can go for work again since may 2022. 

 

But sometimes I loose my hope.

 

In principle, many things are better but 

actually it feels so like regression and not healing. It just put a lot of strain on me. 

These are the doubts: Maybe the damage is so big that I always have to live with symptoms.

I don't like anymore, it has so much time  passed -  I like to drink a glass of wine or do sports without being triggered. I only drink water and tea for month. I didn't drink alcohol for years. I can't eat chocolate or drink cocoa. I miss it. 

The last months were again very hard and marked by symptoms, even if I can live my life. 

The quality is just missing at the moment. 

(I only take magnesium at the moment, I can't tolerate any supplements).

 

I am just at a low point right now.

Since the day before yesterday I also have a strong cold. 

 

LG

Pina

 

[Pina]

Hello, 

 

I am 5 years after zero from Duloxetin/Cymbalta. Basically, it's going better and I'm getting more done. 

But the last waves I have had recurrent severe waves of neurological problems like tension in the body, tingling, tension in the cervical spine  headaches, abnormal sensations, tinnitus. 

 

It's really hard. Who has similar experiences? Does anyone know people who develop such severe symptoms after such a long time? 
LG

Pina