☼ Rhiannon's intro (by Rhi)

[thelegend]

23 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

 That was my everyday state for decades, but now I hardly ever feel more than a twinge of it and it never lasts long. I don't want to go back there. 

 

Really? Decades? Wow you are such a survivor! It is good to hear that people who struggle for many years like me, can eventually get to a point where this is a memory. What did you do to finally recover after so long?

[Rhiannon]

Well, the first step was getting down off the high doses of meds, which took a few years. The tapering at lower doses has been slower than at the higher doses, but since I'm not experiencing as much disability due to the effect of high doses of drugs, it's been easier to get on with my life. I wouldn't say I've recovered--I will never regain even a tiny bit of what I lost during those decades of my life. But I seem to be inherently an optimistic person. And all we really ever have is now, so I try to enjoy life wherever I can.

 

I'm especially grateful to have gotten my social nature back, which I lost on antidepressants. I enjoy people so much now and I have some friends who care about me, which I'll never take for granted again. And I get to be a Nana, which is great! And it's probably just as well that I've had to work, that I haven't had any other kind of financial support. I think Alto has said, we can do more than we think we can. We can definitely do more than we feel like we can. My job has really pushed me to grow in a lot of ways, and has forced me to taper very slowly so I can stay functional. 

 

If you're curious about the rest of my story, like how I got started getting off the meds, I think I gave a nutshell version back at the beginning of the thread.

[Rhiannon]

Reinstatement...so far so good. Might be starting to feel a little better...

 

The worst has been insomnia, some nights only five hours of sleep, which is okay once in a while but very hard after a few in a row, and trying to work, and not being a spring chicken any more. Last night I got to bed a little earlier, got a pretty solid seven hours of sleep. I'm going to go pick up my granddaughter this morning and drive her out to my place and she's going to stay the night. I hope I can keep up with her! I will definitely be taking a nap when she does if I can, or at least lying down and resting.

 

On top of withdrawal I recently found out that my blood sugar is high and I seem to be developing prediabetes. I know I need to try to lose some weight but I just can't handle that right now. It's always something. I'm not suicidal any more, thank goodness, but sometimes it feels like life is just one uphill climb after another and it's hard to feel hope or excitement about the future.

 

Maybe I will feel better once I start sleeping again. Hopefully.

[Rhiannon]

Forgot to mention I bumped up the Valium from 1 mg to 1.2 and the lamotrigine from 12.5 to 15 and the citalopram from 0.03 to 0.05 yesterday. Probably overreacting but it's hard to do nothing when you're suffering. Did have a better night last night. I plan to hold those doses for just a couple of weeks and then start tapering the valium and lamictal back down very slowly to 1 mg and 12.5, those had been my "hold" dosages for a while. Will keep the citalopram at 0.05 for a few months tho and then restart my very slow taper. Sigh...feel like I will be tapering forever. But it's so much better than the alternatives (either being on high doses, or suffering withdrawal and not being able to live my life and work etc.)

 

I was hanging out with some friends last night tho and trying to explain what's going on and they are nice and supportive but they really do not get it. 

 

I'm so mad at myself because last year I tried to jump off the Xanax and had to reinstate, this year the citalopram, and both times it was because my healthcare provider was kind of nudging me to. She's a PA and has been pretty good about refilling my meds, she's never threatened to cut me off or given me a hard time about slow tapering, but she clearly thinks I'm exaggerating and that I should just be able to quit at these tiny doses.

 

I mean, I kind of think so too, but clearly my nervous system knows otherwise. Even 7% receptor occupancy is too much to jump off all at once. I think if I didn't have to work and live my life, if I could just drop out for six months, if there was someone to take care of me or whatever, I could ride it out. But that's not an option. So I guess I'll just keep going.

[carefulprayerful]

I am rooting for you, Rhiannon!  I haven't read your whole story yet, but I have found your posts throughout the site to be so helpful.  I am working while tapering, too.  Wishing you healing and happiness

CarefulP

[Rhiannon]

Thank you, careful! It's wonderful that I can have my life, I need to remember that. I was so disabled on those drugs. It's great that I can work and it's probably a gift, in a way, that I have to, because it does force me to go slow, and that makes it possible to have all of my life.

 

My little 3 year old granddaughter is staying here with me tonight. It's her second sleepover at Nana's. It has been SUCH a sweet day and I am so grateful that I have a stable enough life, and a stable enough mental state, and a stable and safe enough place to live, that I get to enjoy this wonderful, delightful experience. There were many many years when it was far from obvious that I would ever be here. I did a lot of crazy things during the drug merry-go-round years, when I wasn't just curled up in fetal position and stuck in the house. I have to remember what a gift it is to be a regular normal boring person with a regular tedious stressful full time job.

 

And at least now I know the answer to "at what point do I drop off completely" because I think for me the answer is "when I can't figure out a way to create a smaller dose, or when I die of natural causes someday, whichever comes first." My goal is to taper so slowly it's not traumatic at all ever, my body barely knows anything is happening, and even my aging ancient brain can keep up with the neuroplastic changes necessary to make that work. (Which means ignore the freakin' healthcare providers no matter how well intentioned they are.)

 

[bubble]

Just a quick hi very happy to see you around although sorry you got a rough patch.

 

I hope updosing helps and fully support going slow and holding for as long as necessary so as to stay functional and enjoy life and being Nana. Lots of love xxx

[Rhiannon]

9 hours ago, bubble said:

Just a quick hi very happy to see you around although sorry you got a rough patch.

 

I hope updosing helps and fully support going slow and holding for as long as necessary so as to stay functional and enjoy life and being Nana. Lots of love xxx

 Hi Bubble it's great to see you too! I'm so excited about your baby! 

[Rhiannon]

Well I think it's helping...hard to say for sure. I'm not rapidly getting worse at any rate so that's good. About the same, still the worst thing is the insomnia, otherwise just that extra sensitivity to light and noise and stimulation. Also maybe more obsessive thinking than usual, although my "usual" can be pretty bad, as far as ruminating on things that make me anxious or upset. Anyway, I'm knocking on wood that this is as bad as it gets and I get stabilized soon.

[bubbles]

Hi @Rhiannon, good to hear you think it's helping.

[Rhiannon]

Still doing okay. Not getting worse. I got almost 8 hours of sleep one night but the next night was back to the same tossing and turning and fully awake after 6 hours. Sigh, I know it could be much worse. I am able to work and exercise and do most of my usual social activities. I admit I am kind of letting the housework go, though! (Not that my usual standards are especially high where housework is concerned!)

[bubbles]

I’m also sleeping badly at the moment. So frustrating. Sympathy.

[bubble]

This sounds very good. Stabilizing does take a bit of time and follows a windows and wave pattern but you seem to be on track.

 

Great that you are cutting yourself some slack

[intothewoods]

On 9/2/2019 at 12:27 AM, Rhiannon said:

There were many many years when it was far from obvious that I would ever be here. I did a lot of crazy things during the drug merry-go-round years, when I wasn't just curled up in fetal position and stuck in the house. I have to remember what a gift it is to be a regular normal boring person with a regular tedious stressful full time job.

 

I understand that your comparison here is to the former, crazed-out AD days (I can relate) but you are not a normal boring person. You are one of the least boring, most intriguing persons I've come to know in recent years. Granted my knowledge is only through your years of postings on SA, yet it continues to profoundly affect my own poly-drug WD odyssey. As well, it shapes my book and article research. At each juncture, I almost automatically check your case history. My current WD juncture -- whether to try the simultaneous, multi-drug taper trail you've blazed, or to taper one a bit, then another, etc -- is a place I'm thrilled to have arrived.

 

Your current, painstaking work to nail the correct jump-off point for your Celexa will also make history books for untold numbers. It's wretched that you have to suffer a setback at such a minuscule dose, yet as you say, your body is boss. I can see the pressure from your doctor to be done with the .1 mg. But it's still high and too high. That you slightly raised the bar on the Valium and  Lamictal when raising the Celexa is brilliant. You're keeping everything as "even" as possible in your body. That has been critical for me. Every time I decrease one, it throws the whole mess off. It's a guessing game and extremely individualized for each of us,. Yet we have to guess, go for it, learn, heal. Your story is amazing, your mind is beautiful, and nothing, I assure, nothing about you is boring. 

 

Best wishes with stabilizing. You will for sure. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by intothewoods
dose correction

[Rhiannon]

Wow. Thank you. 

 

Not sure what to say. My self-esteem is having trouble stretching that big. Not that I think you're wrong, exactly. Just that it's not how I see myself, so much of  the time. Thanks for reminding me that how I see myself isn't the whole story.

 

Tell me more about the research you are doing...?

[intothewoods]

On 9/9/2019 at 2:25 PM, Rhiannon said:

Tell me more about the research you are doing...?

 

My book has two goals: 

 

1) Convince the average person that he wants  to be aware of this atrocious global seduction of humanity into drug addiction. Bring it out of the closet, track its ominous birth and infiltration of society, profile the players then and now. Not just Pharma but doctors, psychologists, pharmacists, insurance companies, controlling family members and friends. 

The plot unfolds rapid-fire in a time of innocence, before we all had internet and cellphones. Your and my generation. Often prescribed by GPs with no warning and no way to get us off. It morphs quickly to children and the elderly, to anyone with a cluster headache or PMS. 

Obviously this writes itself (much like the murder book I researched for years but never published because ....I was prescribed Prozac to "cope" and it caused severe CFS). Everyone who worked on the DSM has Pharma ties. The infamous Prozac "serotonin re-uptake" memo hatched by Eli Lily. The singular, diabolical nature of these drugs in that they were designed to cause mental illness upon discontinuation leading to the rabbit warren we know of further diagnoses, social alienation, indeed a dehumanizing that eclipses meth or heroin because the drugs are more addicting and sinister than any street drug.  

The book's ascension and tone is like "Into Thin Air" and "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil." In part because I want the mainstream to feel they have to read this book. It can't matter if they've been affected by the drugs; it matters that they will learn the truth.

 

2) Help people out of this quagmire in a dignified, liberating way. Outline the options for tapering, coping, working with doctors and pharmacists. All the options we know and there are many plus the zillion factors: stress, diet, stimuli positive or negative, sleep, thoughts. Arm them with a way out while profiling those who made it and those who didn't  (I've interviewed many with profound stories, and I believe ADWD has some mechanism where it pushes the human spirit to higher, stronger places and this, of course, is a brilliant form of justice in the end). 

Profile the online WD communities and their own rise to the scene in endless forms, with a warning of the harm waiting here if you're not careful. In a tragic twist, some WD sites develop the same dis-empowering tactics of psychiatry by humiliating, belittling and manipulating people n WD who are some of the most vulnerable and desperate on the planet. (Perhaps that's another story titled "Harm Under Healing's Clothes"?) Humans are humans and they can be corrupted by money,  power, and control over others no matter what side of the fence they're on.

I can't stress how pivotal you've been in this journey because you pioneered not only a method of water conversions but your approach to various factors and players in WD is sound and balanced. You're a realist, you've been at rock bottom but it's made you more dimensional. I had wondered if you kept your core humility and kind ways of rallying others to success. You have. 

While I always strive to encourage others, I'm not into hollow flattery or exaggeration. Example: last year, my pharmacist read your posts about water conversions, solubility or not; precision vs. accuracy; simultaneous tapering vs one at a time. I'd been preparing him to help me convert my Elavil to a water solution (he resisted at first but came around and is an amazing person) and he read your findings, checked them against his pharmacological guides (even some of his books from college). He said you nailed it. To this day, he and my doctor  will mention Rhiannon's methods. 

Of course we know there are countless amazing minds and hearts on SA and I can't describe the joy I have with those I've come to know and who are helping expose this nightmare. And helping each other. 

Ok, I'm going to copy some of this onto my thread. Apologies for extended- release answer to your question. I needed to document it and, as you can see, you're quite intrinsic to the plot.😊.
 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Rhiannon!

 

So cool that you've come back around here.  Oh my.......I was so impressed with so many of your posts, shortly after my arrival.  "The trellis and the vine" conception is still one of my go to(s), to use in explaining this WD phenomena to others.  I should link you to it, I suppose.......Ah, here it is, first post in How Psychiatric drugs remodel the brain

"When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. "

August, 2011, Rhiannon

 

Oh, and your methods too, as ittw's mentions.  I personally like the simplicity of your explanations, and that good old keep it simple, don't worry too much, just be consistent idea that comes through.  I was a homemade solution person, with my final taper, and it all worked out just fine.

 

So, It does not feel so long.... my journey into healing and into recovery........once I convinced myself that I was, on the other side of the worst of symptoms.  Life is good for me today.  And most every day.

 

Oh yes, there is a good "boring" and then a not so good "boring" type of human I suppose.  We can just go with the good ole "boring" human model.

 

Anyway, just a hello, and welcome back fellow traveler.  I was thrilled to see you updating here again and had, of course, wondered how it was all going.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

Edited September 11, 2019 by manymoretodays
punctuation, fixed reference to ittw

[Rhiannon]

Wow Into, that sounds like a massive and VERY worthwhile project. Like, maybe even more than one book. Although honestly even if you just got a couple of articles published it would be so helpful to so many people. There will be resistance--there is so much resistance to anyone who tries to say that maybe these meds aren't godsends. But times are changing, a little, and there's more support than there was ten years ago.

 

Have you contacted Bob Whitaker? (Anatomy of an Epidemic, Mad in America) I know he's a busy guy but I've seen him speak and chatted with him a couple of times and he's a very sincere and nice guy. Also Gianna Kali who posts here as GiaK, of Beyond Meds--she was an early pioneer of this work and actually it was her website that inspired me to start my taper journey, back in 2009. And Will Hall of Hearing Voices wrote a "coming off drugs" guide a while back and might be worth connecting with. Gianna knows him I think. I've met and talked with him a couple of times at events in Portland but that was a long time ago.

 

Anyway I want to hear how it goes. You certainly have my support in this very worthwhile endeavor. Take care of yourself first, of course, but keep creating and writing when you can. It sounds to me like that's the core of who you are, and you're very good at it.

[Rhiannon]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:06 AM, manymoretodays said:

 

 

Oh, and your methods too, as ittw's mentions.  I personally like the simplicity of your explanations, and that good old keep it simple, don't worry too much, just be consistent idea that comes through.  I was a homemade solution person, with my final taper, and it all worked out just fine.

 

So, It does not feel so long.... my journey into healing and into recovery........once I convinced myself that I was, on the other side of the worst of symptoms.  Life is good for me today.  And most every day.

 

Oh yes, there is a good "boring" and then a not so good "boring" type of human I suppose.  We can just go with the good ole "boring" human model.

 

Anyway, just a hello, and welcome back fellow traveler.  I was thrilled to see you updating here again and had, of course, wondered how it was all going.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

Hi Many! Thanks for the kind words. So glad to hear that you're doing well.  "Life is good for me today" sounds small but it is really the bottom line and not something to be taken for granted. 

 

I am certain now that the reinstatement is helping. I'm getting 7-8 hours sleep every night now. Not always the most restful sleep, some vivid weird dreams and lots of tossing and turning, but it's better than not sleeping! I'm a little more on edge than usual still. But able to exercise (not too intensely) and to go to work and to babysit my granddaughter. It's pretty mild as withdrawal goes and I know it's going to just keep settling down.

 

Thank Goddess for this website, where I was able to jump in and find good advice on reinstatement and come up with a dose that seems to be helping. Now just to ride out the stabilizing period.

[intothewoods]

5 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

Wow Into, that sounds like a massive and VERY worthwhile project. Like, maybe even more than one book. Although honestly even if you just got a couple of articles published it would be so helpful to so many people. There will be resistance--there is so much resistance to anyone who tries to say that maybe these meds aren't godsends. But times are changing, a little, and there's more support than there was ten years ago.

 

 

Thank you, Rhiannon, so much. It's really not massive (no worries!) and it's only one book, and articles are such a natural part of a book -- well before the book comes to print -- that I don't think about them because once there's a book, you have articles everywhere. The articles are there now and I've written for most major pubs and perhaps more critically to my dogged determination/tenacity -- started as a beat-news reporter for The Tampa Tribune when I was 17. Forty years ago. I've always been drawn to anything in humanity that is grossly wrong and harmful and hidden. I've been privileged to expose some crazy stuff and this is not only natural for me but a joy.

 

The resistance is the old way and it's dying. I hate that you and millions of others have lived in such a shroud of disbelief about these drugs that it seems no one will ever believe. But in my research, they do believe. Why it hasn't come fully into the light -- many reasons, but one clear to me is that too many of us who've been harmed feel we must stay hidden. We hide our identities, we shrink to colleagues and neighbors and friends. My 80-year-old mother said just now: "That is ENABLING. Hiding is enabling and when we stop hiding, or when a book is out there that we know is truth -- change begins." We had to hide for survival but not now. It's quite enthralling!

 

6 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

You certainly have my support in this very worthwhile endeavor. Take care of yourself first, of course, but keep creating and writing when you can. It sounds to me like that's the core of who you are, and you're very good at it.

 

I appreciate your words to take care of myself first. Coming from you, well, you know what it's like. You said earlier in your post that you could probably stick the Celexa jump out if you had the ability to stay in bed and have help. But you have to work. I have to work at something just like you, at least by early next year, and I've toyed with everything from gig work for the likes of Uber to working at a vintage retail store. I can't stay on my feet or drive a car that long. I keep coming back to : What can I do in bed? And I am mostly in bed by necessity for now. 

 

Again, thank you and let's stay in touch. You're going to feel better soon -- you will stabilize. You have my support in this very worthwhile endeavor  .

 

~ Catherine 

[apace41]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:24 PM, Rhiannon said:

So I'm going to give it a try at 0.03 mgai.

 

Good (for us) to have you back, Rhi.  I think this should be sufficient to get your back to your "stable place" and you can hang out there for a while before you restart the final descent.

 

While I know you don't want to take another "helium hit" to your ego which would make your self-worth overexpand, I will say that I have several of your best posts (from my perspective) saved on my iPhone Notes so I can reread them when I feel the need.  The trellis metaphor leaps to mind.

 

Hope this is a short-lived event for you.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, apace41 said:

The trellis metaphor leaps to mind.

Welcome back, Rhiannon.  It's very good to have you here again.  I use your trellis analogy in all my welcoming posts to new members.

 

Gridley

[Giulietta]

Hello Rhiannon,

 

I have read many of your posts - thank you - and as Gridley said - the trellis and WTC is particularly helpful. I use it to 'try' to explain to others. Family and friends may be somewhat supportive but don't completely get the impact of ADs on people - or the reality of discontinuing from them, WD, and rebound when not discontinued properly.

 

Have you tried a weighted blanket, amber glasses (pain), and a black-out eyemask to help you sleep? I have found them (thus far) to be useful.

 

You are fortunate  to be able to work, enjoy friends, family and the new grand-child.

 

Guilietta

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21092-guilietta/

 

 

[Giulietta]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:57 AM, intothewoods said:

Convince the average person that he wants  to be aware of this atrocious global seduction of humanity into drug addiction. Bring it out of the closet, track its ominous birth and infiltration of society, profile the players then and now. Not just Pharma but doctors, psychologists, pharmacists, insurance companies, controlling family members and friends. 

 

Brilliant. I cannot wait to read your book!

 

Do you know how much pharma companies pay the FDA to expedite review of their NDAs?

 

I was astounded to learn about the origins of the American Psychiatric Association as recounted by Breggin....

 

Guilietta

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21092-guilietta/

 

[intothewoods]

20 hours ago, Guilietta said:

I cannot wait to read your book!

 

Do you know how much pharma companies pay the FDA to expedite review of their NDAs?

 

I was astounded to learn about the origins of the American Psychiatric Association as recounted by Breggin....

 

 

Thank you, @Guilietta for the great support. It is all astounding, beginning with the rise of the industry to the inevitable slaying of human lives, and the thing is to make it matter to the mainstream. Most of us wouldn't have read these books had we not experienced it ourselves but awareness and interest are shifting. No matter what, it's never a bad time to tell a riveting story with the goal of helping people from the ground up. 

 

Will check out the link to your own story. It's lovely to meet you 😊.

 

Apologies for the thread hijack, Rhiannon. Am hoping your extra half-dose yesterday isn't too rocky....

[Giulietta]

1 hour ago, intothewoods said:

awareness and interest are shifting. No matter what, it's never a bad time to tell a riveting story with the goal of helping people from the ground up. 

 

Hello Intothewoods,

 

I can email you separately as not to 'hijack' Rhiannon's thread.  For the good of all - we experiencing this madness - and those whom we can try to prevent from it - the awareness (and acceptance) is a postive thing. Last week there was a young lady - a high school student maybe - at the grocery store wearing a white shirt with a large painted green ribbon on the back. I was walking behind her and asked what her shirt was for - and it was awareness of mental health! So - that started me off on my bit about ADs (and cymbalta/dulox in particular) and their true impact.

 

'It's going to be OK' - seen on a bumper sticker today - is one thing I try to tell myself - and others....

 

Guilietta

 

 

[Rhiannon]

I just slept 8 hours! YAYAYAYAYAY! Of course tomorrow will probably be different. But it seems like this is a good sign.

[intothewoods]

22 minutes ago, Rhiannon said:

I just slept 8 hours! YAYAYAYAYAY! Of course tomorrow will probably be different. But it seems like this is a good sign.

 

It's a fabulous sign. I'm so happy for you! You're stabilizing! 

[Rhiannon]

39 minutes ago, intothewoods said:

 

It's a fabulous sign. I'm so happy for you! You're stabilizing! 

 

I think you're right. It's been about, what, 3-4 weeks since reinstating? That seems like the usual timeline.  I mean, it's windows and waves as usual, but I'm feeling quite encouraged. I have even had some moments of feeling sort of optimistic about the future--which is for me as strong of a good sign as getting a night's sleep! So yay, windows and waves, I'm going to make it and it doesn't look like I'm going to fall back into the hellscape of my past (those decades of going on and off meds, or tapering too fast, you know the hellscape of which I speak I believe.) That was my secret fear when the WD symptoms began to hit but I think I'm out of the woods on that one and going to stabilize and be able to continue my very slow taper. Thank Goddess! and thanks to my amazing body for being so resilient!

[intothewoods]

1 hour ago, Rhiannon said:

, I'm going to make it and it doesn't look like I'm going to fall back into the hellscape of my past (those decades of going on and off meds, or tapering too fast, you know the hellscape of which I speak I believe.) That was my secret fear when the WD symptoms began to hit

 

Absolutely wondered if you had that fear -- how could you not? -- but no more hellscape and your current experience is a massive lift for the rest of us who've been in that space for years. That you spent decades in it is beyond belief and yet, that the body can be so unraveled for so long -- and recover again and again -- Yoohoo! This is like new setback science. Honestly this makes my day so much too. I often think I'll never get out of the hellscape and so many friends on here do too but you are proof. 

 

Yes, the timing of reinstatement and your slow testing-of-the-waters signal windows and waves.  Isn't it wonderful to re-discover eager anticipation about the future? You will be okay. Maybe a few more rocky days but you know that then again, maybe not. Your body was stabilized for a long, long time so it knows that. Resiliency is profound. 

 

Enjoy  your weekend!

[Rhiannon]

🙂 

Well, it's been a little rockier after the other night when I got the 8 hours of sleep, but I'm consistently getting a pretty good 6 every night and then kind of a lighter weird sleep after that. Can't complain too much, still having occasional moments of feeling sort of happy or optimistic. Which, you know, there were years I never felt that at all, so it's encouraging, still stabilizing.

 

Today I went to church with some friends (I don't go regularly) and an acquaintance was there and he told me he was struggling with depression but feeling hopeful because he was taking Seroquel and had just been diagnosed with something bipolar something (they use bipolar so many ways these days). It was so hard not to scream. I tried to say supportive words and definitely gave a supportive hug. 

 

I bet there's a topic here somewhere about that: how do you cope with people who are caught up in that world, believing their meds are saving them? There is one woman who years ago just by sharing my own journey with and listening to her feelings I think I helped inspire her to taper slowly off her AD and she is still off it successfully. But she herself was having doubts about it. And I helped another person who was already wanting to taper, just with information and encouragement, she's off two meds now and still tapering one.

 

But with people who are still in that place of "thank goodness somebody figured out what's wrong with me and they are giving me a med for it" hope? How do you deal with that?

 

I just said "I'm so sorry" and then at one point "you know I struggled with depression for years, but in my case it turns out it was caused by the meds." And dropped it there. I think that's probably best.

 

Sigh...

 

okay, off to work now, hopefully followed by another good night's sleep!

 

[Giulietta]

There is nothing like a good night's sleep! It is so refreshing after any number of nights of broken sleep. Last night was the first in a while of waking up - anxiety and tremors for an hour- and then falling back to sleep. Argh.

 

3 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

I bet there's a topic here somewhere about that: how do you cope with people who are caught up in that world, believing their meds are saving them?

 

I haven't looked for a thread on how to educate/communicate with people who believe these drugs are a panacea.  I have had similar experiences - people who think they have found the fountain of youth - and those who see these drugs as destructive.

 

For people who think these drugs are the solution to their emotional pain (I appreciate that) and are desperate to feel better - they may be so grateful to have this medication - they don't want to hear anything  contrary about them. People often need to learn things for themselves - including learning from mistakes (I am one such person!).  If that is the case - maybe asking them to consider that this is not a good idea and do their own research (SA...).

 

Maybe ask them what the drugs are going to do for them? Do they intend to stay on them for life?

 

What is frightening and sad  is that some of these people are parents of teen-agers who support putting their child on these drugs to help them through a bad patch. I have spoken with these people and it leaves me speechless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bubbles]

I have a friend who is sure that her drugs are saving her, so now her child (teen) is on them too. She tried half heartedly to get off them once and didn't like it (went much too fast) and has now decided she's on them for life. Teen followed psychiatrist advice to stop them and, predictably, it failed. Poor kid. When I dropped dose and felt awful she asked me if I hadn't considered if that meant that the drugs were working and I should be on them. She says she's never had side effects though she must be having the effect on bones etc, just not noticeable effects.

 

I think you just have to agree to disagree.

[ShiningLight]

Rhi,

 

Sending hugs and reinforcements! 😃 So happy to hear of your improving sleep and approaching stabilization. Your story gives me such hope.

 

I find it very difficult to deal with people who think the drugs are great. There are the 'never drugs' people, the 'forever drugs' people, the 'once drugs but off easily people,' and finally, us: the 'drugs, horrific withdrawals, and paradigm change' people. We are a small and special group.

 

I remind myself daily of your remark that you don't have to be off entirely to get some relief; being on lower doses may help. Every day that helps me.

 

I am going to start physical therapy for drug related sequelae. Physical therapy due to rx drugs! Unconscionable harm. I would like to show up at Pfizer and Lilly and let them know what I think about their drugs. I would like to just stand out there, day after day after day, with a sign.

 

We will rise from this!!!

[Giulietta]

Good day all,

 

I came across this  article https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/09/10-reasons-why-psychiatry-lives-on/ which makes some points - some of which might be useful when communicating with people who are devotees of psych meds. One of the elements of these meds is control. Do these people want that?

[Rhiannon]

3 hours ago, Guilietta said:

Good day all,

 

I came across this  article https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/09/10-reasons-why-psychiatry-lives-on/ which makes some points - some of which might be useful when communicating with people who are devotees of psych meds. One of the elements of these meds is control. Do these people want that?

 

I remember when I was in the bad days, I didn't like it that I was dependent on doctors, and in fact I tried many many times to reduce or get off meds. I was on Wellbutrin for many years, which caused reflux (which ruined my singing voice, I used to love to sing but I can't any more) and elevated my blood pressure (which fortunately is low at baseline so it only elevated it to normal) and of course made me feel like crap in so many ways. But whenever I tried to quit taking it I plunged into desperate suicidality. I went back to school, wanted to study physics, but cognitively I just had lost so much of my prior ability (I was always good at science and math before the meds) and I changed some meds around at that time, which of course plunged me into even more hell.  That's also when I started doing some crazy things, blew through my savings, quietly planning that I would just commit suicide in a few years after my youngest turned 18. 

 

Nostalgia, huh? Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, I was so desperate but I thought the only thing keeping me above water was the meds so I didn't think about them rationally. And honestly, at that time I had no idea about slow tapering, so every time I tried to reduce or quit a med I got so sick, it's no wonder I thought they were saving me. I think a lot of people are in that boat. They get pretty defensive if you try to imply that their meds might not be great for them. I used to do that too.

 

Sigh, having a bit of a rough morning today, nothing like what so many people are going through of course. My IBS (which I think the meds caused or at least certainly contributed to) is acting up. I know it will settle down soon. But I hate that so much of my life was stolen by the meds, year by year in the past, and now hours here and there. 

 

Nobody wants this. It's criminal.