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Malbec37

Malbec37: Tapering off Mirtazapine and hit major WD HELP needed!!!

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pinciukas
57 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

I'm just finding it so hard to get my head around how small the doses have to be and how long it takes to get there...I mean I believe it it's just overwhelming...I spoke to my doctor yesterday and he said it was rubbish and there was no way that under 1mg could do anything...when I look at the tablets part of me believes him or wants to believe him but then I read on here about the many years of efforts people make....so much courage. 

 

And then I read somewhere on here from someone experienced saying that being stable doesn't mean being symptom free...it just means being stable with what symptoms you have and learning to live with them...I'm not sure I can! When I was on the medication and settled I had no symptoms and was able to manage my life really well and I had a very full and enjoyable life...I'm just really worried that now I am going to be having WD symptoms ongoing 

 

Sorry I think I'm just starting to panic a bit about this whole situation and like EVERYONE else I just want to feel myself and feel able to function normally 

Don't be negative and think positive there is a lot of people who quitting antidepresants just with few WD like nausea, headaches and so one and after months they are ok to go med free. Everyone is different if someone can't quit need stabilise and so on doesn't mean you will experience the same. 

Stay positive!

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Hell
13 minutes ago, pinciukas said:

Don't be negative and think positive there is a lot of people who quitting antidepresants just with few WD like nausea, headaches and so one and after months they are ok to go med free. Everyone is different if someone can't quit need stabilise and so on doesn't mean you will experience the same. 

Stay positive!

Quitting meds cold turkey is the worst thing you can do to your body. Even if it seems it is fine it is a shock to your brain. I would advise against it.

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Rhiannon
2 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

Hi everyone

 

Since starting to taper mirtazapine after being on it for 5 years (and Sertraline and citalopram for 12) I have encountered WD symptoms and found my way to this amazing website which is a total godsend....I never realised it could be this hard and take so long to get off my medication. The idea of slowly tapering for up to two more years and the effort and difficulty that this will involve really does make me wonder why I am doing it in the first place....I never had any side effects from the mirtazapine I just thought that after 5 years of being free of depression I was strong and resilient enough to come off my meds and lead a med free life! But I didn't know how hard to would be to do this :(

 

I would love to hear from others as to why they are coming off their meds as it may give me the hope and inspiration that I need?

 

Thanks :)

 

In my case there were side effects that got worse over the long term. I also found that I wasn't functioning very well, I tried to go back to school and couldn't study science the way I had been able to before. And multiple attempts to come off the drugs which all failed and with each one I got worse and worse, suicidal, filled with emotional pain and dysfunction.

 

It doesn't sound like you have suffered as much on the drugs as I did. You might not be aware of what they have taken away from you in other ways though. It has only been since tapering down that I have discovered how much they took away my ability to connect with other people and my old social personality. It has been as those things have returned to me that I realized they were gone.

 

I don't know if everyone needs to come off psych meds but I can't imagine that they can possibly be healthy for us over decades, no drugs are really that good for our bodies, especially as we get older. In my case, I've gotten back my ability to live in the world and work at a regular job and have something close to a normal life, but my health will never be as good as it was before. I wish I had known how to taper off of these drugs back in the 90s, I would have tapered off no matter how many years it took, and then I wouldn't have lost my children's childhoods and they would have had a mother.

 

That's how it was for me, in sort of a very small nutshell--there are a lot of details that I'm sparing you

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pinciukas
26 minutes ago, Hell said:

Quitting meds cold turkey is the worst thing you can do to your body. Even if it seems it is fine it is a shock to your brain. I would advise against it.

I don't recommend CT I mean in general quitting.

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

mod. note:  merged introductions

? on thoughts on why to stop the meds and is it worth it? .......is now here.

 

Please:  just one introduction topic per member  Thank you.

 

we do have some similar topics in tapering, symptoms and self care, and off topic as well.....

 

to find pre-existing discussions, topics you can always do the main browser search:

 

survivingantidepressants.org followed by is it worth it to stop medications

(or something to that effect)

 

As you've only been here less than a week, @Malbec37  I realize you are just getting familiar.  Please feel free to browse about, the various forums, from the Home Screen.

 

And welcome aboard,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

p.s.  it's been well worth it to me.

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
spacing

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Rhiannon
On 1/4/2020 at 2:53 PM, Malbec37 said:

Hi @Gridley...so I bought some scales and decided it was sensible to go up to 13mg and stick on it until stable (3 months as you suggest)...I did have a lot of problems with the scales jumping around and not seeming very precise...they weren't the cheapest ones and had good reviews. I got into a bit of a panic about it all thinking that the measurements weren't in any away precise...but with perseverance the scale seemed to start to behave more and I managed to break up the pills to get approx ranges between 12.8 and 13.3mg - it was still jumping around a bit but I couldn't get it to stick to 13 precisely but really not very far off at all. I did this for hours and now I have ten doses prepared around these amounts....I know its not ideal and would rather have exactly 13mg but I have done my best - I have taken the first one tonight. Would be grateful for your thoughts on this? 

 

Many thanks as ever as I am new to this and really need support and reassurance 

Just to be sure, you do know that you are NOT supposed to be measuring 13 mg on the scale, right? The 13 mg is the actual active drug ingredient. The weight of your tablet is mostly fillers and binders. 

 

I think there is a good thread on this in the Tapering section and you are probably already on top of it but I just sort of panicked when I read the above and want to make sure you are aware. 🙂

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mikeyboy

Weirdly by Mirtazapine tabs are actually 15mg (15.4 on the scale, but I don't think it's that accurate).

 

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

More on weights and measurements of doses

 

^ taken from Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

Thanks Rhiannon for picking up on that.  And please, please get familiar with tapering methods, before tapering.  I see far too many new members jump into this with great gusto, only to regret it, as they have not worked out some essential details first, and furthered their understanding.

 

This is the place to ask questions, get clarity, etc. on your own situation Malbec37.  Your introduction.  Right here.

If you need help you can always add an @ before a moderators name, or experienced member for help.  You'll see the names to select from once you start typing in a letter after the @ .  Then be patient with us all please.

 

Thank you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

editing in to add:  perfectly okay to ask questions, on the digital scale topic too.  Just try and keep the bulk of specific cases, and situations, on your own threads as well.  Makes our work easier and better informed.

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
in black

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Gridley

@Malbec37

 

I wanted to make sure you'd seen Rhiannon's post about using the scale.  We use the scale to measure pill weight, and keep track with active ingredient.  This link explains the method.

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

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Malbec37

@manymoretodaysReally sorry about that, yes I am new and also been in quite an anxious state in general recently so making a few mistakes

 

So to confirm DON'T start a new topic in the Introductions forum? Just one per member like you said....I can see I started another by mistake

 

Can you start new topics in other forums?

 

Thanks for your kindness and all the work all you guys are doing it's really amazing 

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Gridley
2 hours ago, Gridley said:

I wanted to make sure you'd seen Rhiannon's post about using the scale.  We use the scale to measure pill weight, and keep track with active ingredient.  This link explains the method.

 

All okay regarding this?

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Malbec37

@GridleyI sent you a private message in reply to yours

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manymoretodays
2 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

Really sorry about that, yes I am new and also been in quite an anxious state in general recently so making a few mistakes

 

So to confirm DON'T start a new topic in the Introductions forum? Just one per member like you said....I can see I started another by mistake

 

Can you start new topics in other forums?

 

Hey, no worries.

Yes, don't start a new topic in Introductions.

 

Yes, you may start new topics in other forums.  Good to search to see if there IS already a topic around what you are thinking of starting first.

Off site, use your browser and how I explained.

On site, on the top right you'll see a search box, in each forum.  You can use that and specify topic title.  It will give you a drop down menu, for specifications to your search.

 

You're doing great.

 

L, P, H, and R,

mmt

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Guilietta
On 1/7/2020 at 11:22 AM, Malbec37 said:

I spoke to my doctor yesterday and he said it was rubbish and there was no way that under 1mg could do anything.

 

Hi there.  Sorry about the mental anguish (with all respect, compassion and understanding) all of this is causing you - and justifiably so. MDs for the most part have no clue about tapering. In addition - of those that do appreciate why you taper these drugs - almost none will admit how slowly you must go as you get to zero mg and why. There is a paper and graph that explains it better than I can - about the occupancy of neuro-transmitters - and even when a tiny bit of drug is taken away - we have a lot of WD symptoms. @Gridley would you kindly confirm/correct for @Malbec37.   This may help you and MD understand. YOu could print and bring it to the MD.

 

On 1/7/2020 at 11:22 AM, Malbec37 said:

I'm just really worried that now I am going to be having WD symptoms ongoing 

 

My WD effects have been around a while because I didn't get off my 20 mg cymbalta because I did not taper - at all. It has been very unpleasant but things are now much more tolerable (really horrible!!).

 

I expect the WD symptoms will be with me a while. However - I can say that I do somethings better than when I was on the 'medication'.  I know that ADs are not the solution to managing anxiety and depression. ADs are amongst the most dangerous drugs in America.

 

Learning adaptive thinking (CBT), mindfulness, etc. takes concerted effort, diligence, regular practice and time.  Have positive expectations that you will learn these skills.

 

On 1/7/2020 at 11:22 AM, Malbec37 said:

Sorry I think I'm just starting to panic a bit about this whole situation and like EVERYONE else I just want to feel myself and feel able to function normally 

 

No apologies are ever needed on SA. We continue to learn to accept WD as a temporary part of our lives.  None of us like it so you are not alone. ;)

 

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Malbec37

@Guilietta thanks for this 

 

Firstly how to do you take sections like you and other moderators do and then paste it into the box for responding to? Like you've done in your responses to me? I've tried to just copy and paste but isn't the same :)

 

Yes you're right about MD's having no clue....thing that maybe gets confusing is that some people DO get off their meds relatively easily compared to what you, I and everyone in this site have to deal with...for example I was talking to a friend today who was on citalopram for 3 years and managed to come off in 2 months with relatively few if any withdrawals...so It shows that for SOME it can happen like that but of course for many it doesn't and hence why SA exists...maybe MD's see some people coming off like that and assume everyone would be able to? Regardless a lot of them are next to useless when it comes to this process of coming off medication

 

I am starting to accept my situation now more easily and readying myself for a much longer and more gentle taper to see if I can come off Mirtazapine...it seems mirtazapine is one of the hardest to come off so I have no doubt that it will be  a hard and long road but then dealing with depression has been one hard and long road!! I feel that sow is good because I will be able to see if I can function well with less and less of the drug in my system and this will give me a good indication if I can live without it in the longterm....would you agree with that?

 

I'm sorry you have suffered so much I really am....over the years I have developed virtually every tool in the box and they all help me and now I am even a yoga and mindfulness teacher! I have also practice a lot of spirituality, energy healing and recently got more into prayer and asking for diving guidance and support...none of it hurts.

 

Thankyou for connecting with me and being part of the wonderful community that is SA!

 

As a final update for everyone else I woke up very gloomy this morning but things have progressed throughout the day so I'm hoping tomorrow will be a better day...I ahve now been on the update of 13mg for 4 nights

 

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Gridley
51 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

There is a paper and graph that explains it better than I can - about the occupancy of neuro-transmitters - and even when a tiny bit of drug is taken away - we have a lot of WD symptoms. @Gridley would you kindly confirm/correct for @Malbec37.   This may help you and MD understand. YOu could print and bring it to the MD.

 

Here is the study about how low, low doses still affect you,  plus some commentary explaining it in a fairly simple way.  


Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

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Malbec37

@Gridley@mikeyboy@manymoretodays and others...I am now on my updose from 11mg to 13mg mirtazapine after previously coming down from 30 to 22.5 to 15mg and finally to approx 11mg over 5 months....I know it's only been 5 days of the updose now but I'm still suffering WD especially chronic insomnia and constant ringing in my ears....I'm feeling ok though, anxiety is not too bad and getting through each day... just wanted to know if this is normal and if WD symptoms likely to get less after a week of the updose? I know everyone is different and there's no way of being sure just wondering from your experience?

 

Also are there any links to insomnia and what can be done to help here?

 

Desperate for a decent sleep!

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mikeyboy

Morning. I think it’s fairly early days so try not to panic (difficult I know). your nervous system has had a shock and will take time to stabilise. It’s good that you’re not suffering too much anxiety. 

 

it sounds like you are doing all the right things with yoga etc so try and ride this out. 

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mikeyboy

Morning. I think it’s fairly early days so try not to panic (difficult I know). your nervous system has had a shock and will take time to stabilise. It’s good that you’re not suffering too much anxiety. 

 

it sounds like you are doing all the right things with yoga etc so try and ride this out.  How much sleep are you getting?

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Malbec37

@mikeyboy Hi there...thanks for the response it's appreciated! Last night it felt like I didn't really sleep at all but I know that's not the case as I don't feel that bad today really....I did look at phone and it said 4am then I definitely didn't sleep after that...more like tossing and turning, thinking too much and light dreaming

 

Yes you're right I just have to be patient and let the nervous system catch up...who knows how long it could take but I'll get there

 

Think I'm going to start making this to see if it helps with sleep https://wholelifestylenutrition.com/natural-solutions/the-moon-milk-recipe-that-helps-you-get-a-better-nights-sleep-part-3-of-3/

 

how are you doing?

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Gridley
4 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

chronic insomnia and constant ringing in my ears....I'm feeling ok though, anxiety is not too bad and getting through each day.

Though you might not think so, it sounds as if you're doing pretty well.  Insomnia and tinnitus are very common in withdrawal.

On your moonnmilk recipe, I'd start low on the ashwaganda.  It can have a paradoxical effect, meaning it can make you more anxious (it did with me). Many times holistic recommendations don't work in WD.  

 

I don't remember if I've mentioned the B vitamins in your signature, but they can be overstimulating in WD.

 

Here are some links on insomnia:

 

Tips to help sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia
 
 
Trick and tips to fall asleep faster
 
This link contains helpful information, including insomnia and also non-drug coping skills.  
 
 
 

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Malbec37

@GridleyWow thanks for the links super useful!

 

Ah just ordered ashwagandha ha ha...only £10 though so not the end of the world...I'll try at very low amounts 

 

I like the ideas in the video of gratitude journaling before sleep and also counting back in 3'2 from 300...will try those tonight

 

Hope you're well my friend 

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mikeyboy

You might want to read through Dalsaan's thread on here. She successfully came off Mirt after a bad start.. 

 

 

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Malbec37

@mikeyboythanks....definitely good to read positive stories about mirtazapine withdrawal

 

For all including @Gridleylast night I slept through until 6am for first time in 2 weeks....today I feel better again from yesterday although still got tinitus but bearable

 

Last night I started new bedtime routine which includes firstly spending no time on my bed during the day...then doing some worry journaling and gratitude journaling before bed....also listened to guided sleep meditation which helped. This morning got up 7am for first time in ages and used my Lightbox so will try and stick to getting up at early at exactly same time every day and laying down to sleep at same time...this also really helps me and gets circadian Rthymns going well

 

So all in all a much more positive night

 

Thanks for the amazing support SA!

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sunnysideup69

Sounds good, @Malbec37! The updose is working :)

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Gridley

@Malbec37 Sounds great and, yes, the updose is working.

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Malbec37

Hi everyone

 

Wanted to just post about how things are going as looking for some input and reassurance....I was doing well on the updose 2 days ago but yesterday and today have been pretty awful and my anxiety levels are sky high and also the buzzing/ringing in my head is constant and really stressing me out and upsetting me....I know I have to be patient but I'm now getting scared that it's never going to go away and I'm stuck with it...I know this is more anxiety piling on top of anxiety and that it most likely will stop just finding it all very hard right now...I know its common withdrawal effect but is it normal for it to have gone on for 2 weeks? I guess there is no such thing as normal when it comes to WD from these drugs 

 

Thanks 

 

 

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sunnysideup69

Hey @Malbec37, try not to add fear on top of the WD anxiety. Everything you're experiencing sounds like WD and updose effects to me. I usually don't feel a dose change until 3 or 4 days into doing it, and I then wobble around for a couple of weeks until things level out. So it's like 4 days plus an additional 14 to settle. I think you're into the second week of your updose now? So it's early days and things should begin to settle.

In the meantime, lots of self soothing, restorative yoga etc. You'll settle. Your nervous system had a shock with the drop to 11mg and now it's adjusting to 13mg. It takes time to balance out again :) but you will.

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Malbec37

@sunnysideup69 thanks so much for this. Yes I’m in the beginning of the second week of updosing...you’re right I’m clearly adding worry onto the anxiety WD symptoms which is making me panic...really tough and the constant buzzing in my head has been getting to me but what you say is very reassuring and will do lots more restorative yoga and long hot baths 

 

bless you for responding x 

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sunnysideup69

Hey @Malbec37, how's it going?

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Malbec37

Hey @sunnysideup69@Gridleyand others

 

It's going pretty ok as my sleep is pretty consistently good now on 13mg and anxiety is present but low level...at night time I make a tea of chamomile and passionflower (very strong) and it seems to knock me out good and proper...also taking magnesium and eating very well and doing some restorative yoga before bed

 

BUT the buzzing in my head is still ever present and feels like it's here to stay sadly :(....is this the same as the tinnitus that others report on the site/ Or more like the brain zaps? It's a constant high pitched buzz that feels like it comes more from the centre of my head than from my ears - I mean I can function but I hate it and just want to hear good old silence again...I have never had any problem of this kind in the past so it's clearly a WD symptom. I have read some horror stories on here of people who got this and it never went away which is of course pretty upsetting but doesn't mean it'll be the case for me

 

As you said @sunnysideup69I just need to be patient and let things settle and hope it does eventually go away 

 

I also found out something interesting the other day....5 years ago when I had my last depressive episode that was so severe I ended up hospitalised I could never understand really where it came from as my life seemed really stable, I had gone through no major life events and was settled in work and home - but then I read that a month prior I had reduced my citalopram from 40mg straight down to 20mg overnight with the approval of the doctor and then a few weeks later I had the most terrible bout of depression....makes a lot of sense now from what I have learnt on this site

 

Thanks for checking in and would love to hear back from you all

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Malbec37

Further to the above today I have a new symptom which is a feeling of nausea :(

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sunnysideup69
On 1/15/2020 at 8:22 AM, Malbec37 said:

Hey @sunnysideup69@Gridley

 

I also found out something interesting the other day....5 years ago when I had my last depressive episode that was so severe I ended up hospitalised I could never understand really where it came from as my life seemed really stable, I had gone through no major life events and was settled in work and home - but then I read that a month prior I had reduced my citalopram from 40mg straight down to 20mg overnight 

 

Yep, that's a fifty per cent drop

..likely to have been the cause ....

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Gridley
6 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

reduced my citalopram from 40mg straight down to 20mg overnight 

Agree with Sunnysideup.

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Pens
On 1/7/2020 at 11:22 AM, Malbec37 said:

Sorry I think I'm just starting to panic a bit about this whole situation and like EVERYONE else I just want to feel myself and feel able to function normally 

Hi Malbec37, greetings from Canada, I’m pretty new to this site too. I’ve been on antidepressants since 2009, you can see them in my signature. I was given Mirtazapine 15 mg. to help coming off Pristiq 50 mg. I tapered too quickly as well, from 7.5 mg to 3.75 mg. then 1.8 mg. All within 2 months. I’m tapering because of what you said, “l just want to feel myself and be able to function normally.” I’m just taking one day at a time and I am having some reprieve in the evenings. I have a very supportive husband and just recently retired so am fortunate that way. This site is a God send, because I didn’t know where to turn to after my family doc  told me to just quit. I’m glad you are able to get help here. All the best to you. 

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