Malbec37: tapering off mirtazapine / Remeron and hit major WD

[Malbec37]

Hello there fellow brave SA warriors!

 

Here is my update:

 

I am mostly doing well although of course still windows and waves but the waves are manageable and pass soon enough...it definitely makes waves harder when there are times of stress like a job interview or pressure at work etc...but there are plenty of windows and sleep is more consistent and energy levels mostly fine.

I am continuing to work in a demanding job as a support worker and can cope although I am looking for a new job...I had an interview to be a commercial vegetable grower the other day and, although I didn't get the job, I did very well and was not far away! So I take hope from this...

 

Next week I will be asking my GP to prescribe me the liquid mertazapine so I can make the switch from pill to liquid and the begin the taper down from 15mg either 10% per month initially or the Brass Monkey scale...I am praying that they give it to me as I don't at all like the idea of making my own liquid and I know from experience that cutting and weighing pills is not precise enough (and a total pain in the a**)

 

One thing that I can't make my mind up is whether to do the SA advice for switching over or whether to just straight switch from 15mg pill one night to 15mg liquid the next and then onwards....

 

@Gridleyhope you're good...you mentioned the advice below and I wondered if you could point me in the direction of any articles or info to explain why this is better than a straight switch? I have looked on SA myself but couldn't find anything...I guess my fear is due to the problems I had before with cutting pills and getting inconsistent amounts and whether doing this in the way mentioned below could add to my WD? Maybe I'm just better straight switching as it's replacing 15mg with 15mg just in a different form...and if there are WD effects I can just ride them out - Ultimately I know it's for me to decide but just wanted to get as informed as possible before I do 

 

If you switch to liquid, we recommend a gradual crossover:

3/4 dose tablet, 1/4 dose liquid for 3 to 7 days

1/2 dose, tablet, 1/2 dose liquid for 3 to 7 days

1/4 dose tablet, 3/4 dose liquid for 3 to 7 days

all liquid thereafter

 

If any of you other kind souls want to comment I'd be very grateful also

 

Lots of love, strength and hope to all

 

Malbec in UK

[ChessieCat]

Hi Malbec,

 

Liquid dosing enters the body differently to tablets.  Liquid may work faster than a tablet.  It is gentler on the nervous system to do a cross over.

 

Also, some members have found that they were okay taking a tablet but don't find that they can take a liquid.  If you do a cross over and start to have issues you can hold for longer on that combination and see if things settle.  If the issues do settle you can continue.  If they don't you can work the cross over backwards and go back to tablet.  Because the liquid dose is less than changing over in one go, if you have problems taking the liquid hopefully they won't be as bad as they might be taking all liquid.

[Malbec37]

Hi @ChessieCat thanks so much for the input. That's interesting that liquid enters in a different way....it's all mertazapine ultimately but yes it's in a different form. I wonder why some people can not tolerate liquid over a tablet even at the same dosage?...with mertazapine it seems so difficult to come off that liquid is the only way to make the precise adjustments needed so I don't see it as an option to continue with using pills....I just have to do it with a liquid form 

 

Do you think that a 50/50 liquid and pill would be too much to switch to overnight? 

[ChessieCat]

30 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

Do you think that a 50/50 liquid and pill would be too much to switch to overnight? 

 

We suggest the combinations which Gridley posted.  It's your decision if you want to try the 50/50.  However, we do understand that it can sometimes be difficult to get accurate doses.

 

Please note that these are just some thoughts about how you might be able to do the 50/50.  You'd have to work out what will work for you and remember to listen to your body.  This is just an idea I've had.  I'm about to go to bed so I'm a bit tired.  I suggest you jot down the two different plans on paper and work out how long you would need to be on each stage of the process.  You might be able to do 1/3 of the 50% dose instead of the 1/4 that I've explained below.  This is something that I've thought of after seeing your question.  I'm not aware of any members who have done this and I haven't discussed it with the other mods.  You might want to work out your own plan and post it here so it can be reviewed.

 

Please remember to listen to your body.  That is really important!!!

 

Instead of taking the entire 50% in liquid in one go you could dilute it in water (to make it easier to measure) and take it in smaller amounts, so take 50% in tablet + 1/4 of the diluted liquid then at 1/2 hour or 1 hour intervals take the other  1/4 liquid doses so that you aren't taking it all in one go.  Once you've been on that combination for a week or 2, depending on how you are feeling, you could then dilute the whole liquid dose.

 

You could double the amount you are taking at intervals.  After a week or 2 of doing that you could then gradually bring all 4 doses back to one dose.  The best way to do that might be to reduce the interval so if you had been doing 1 hour between the 4 doses you could go to 3/4 hour between the doses and then 1/2 hour then 1/4 hour and then all in one go.

 

OR, and I think this would be better:

 

If you did 50% in tablet + 50% liquid at 3 intervals of 1 hour, when you got to 100%, you could take 1/8th of the dose at 1/2 hourly intervals.  Then you would take the doses at 1/4 hour intervals.  If you wanted to continue being cautious you could then double the amount you take each 1/4 hour before taking all at the same time.

 

Okay, time for bed - good night from me and good day to you. 😉

 

 

 

 

[Malbec37]

@ChessieCat Wow great thinking and thanks so much for taking the time and effort to write that! I will certainly carefully consider it 

 

It really does make sense to accustomize the body to liquid gradually...I just hadn't realised that switching over could have such difficulties for some....but then again it could also be easy. Who knows right!? As you say keep listening to your body and you will find the answers

 

Wishing you a deep and restful sleep my friend 

 

X

[Gridley]

5 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

you mentioned the advice below and I wondered if you could point me in the direction of any articles or info to explain why this is better than a straight switch?

I don't know of any articles but the rationale is to ease the transition and to avoid a jolt to the system.  We recommend a crossover for any kind of switch--from another drug to Prozac, from tablet to liquid and from brand to brand of the same drug.  When I did a crossover from generic to name brand Ativan, even though I did a crossover, I had a ramp up of symptoms for a few weeks.  Switching from tablet to liquid is a big change in terms of absorption rate and possibly other factors.  Some people don't react well to liquid and have to crossover back.

 

It's your decision, but in my opinion, if you're careful with your dosages, the effects of minor variations in dosages would be less jolting to your system than a straight switch.  If you don't think you can manage the method I suggested, you could simplify it and just hold longer.

 

 

[Malbec37]

@Gridleythanks for explaining the rationale it's super helpful

 

I think I'm a little nervous about small variations due to how much I struggled in January and after the updose to 13 but I agree that now I am pretty well settled on 15mg and have a good degree of stability within the windows and waves then I should be ok to gradually move across to the liquid and give my body time to get use to the new normal

 

It's very helpful to understand things like the absorption rate being different 

 

I think once I hopefully get the liquid then I will wait a further month on 15mg tablet to stabilise further then I will start to move across to liquid around beginning of July 

 

Thanks for your help it's invaluable 

[ChessieCat]

You're very welcome.  Sometimes we have to think outside the box.

 

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned.  Do not make a reduction or start taking anything new, or stop taking anything at the same time you are doing the cross over.  If you make another change at the same time you will not know what is causing any issue/s if they occur. 

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Malbec37]

Hello all

 

Hope all are well...here is my update:

 

So a lot has happened recently regarding my WD from mertazapine. A few days ago I started to really struggle badly with WD symptoms again, worst in many weeks maybe months...I am tired from my job as a mental health support worker and also had a few relationship issues with a friend but nothing else, so was unsure what was happening - then I realised I had switched brand of mertazapine 6 days prior and this fitted with my WD wave pattern. So I ended up looking for support online and many many mertazapine users said the same thing that switching brands could cause big problems. So I panicked and contacted my new doctor who gave me an emergency prescription and I managed to find some of my old brand and, after 6 days on the new, I switched back to the old. The next day I had instant relief and was back in a window and feeling much relief! But then the day after the wave returned and tonight I will take my 4th night of the old brand and today I have felt pretty awful....very fatigued, intense tinnitus feeling like my head will somehow explode, low mood...basically just sick as a dog. I did go for a long nature walk with some friends and did some bare foot walking which definitely helped...now I am home and resting. Fortunately I do have a week off work now which will help but I'm hoping that it won't take too long for some stability to return now that I am back on the old brand.

 

Who would have known that just switching one brand to another with the same amount of Active Ingredient Mertazapine could cause such problems!?

 

In other and BIG news my new GP has agreed to write me a prescription for the liquid mertazapine! I am so happy as it can be so hard to get this on the NHS so I have been very lucky - I am planning to do a gradual switch over from 15mg tablet to 15mg liquid once I am stable again and then get steady on 15mg liquid before starting the taper down from 15 towards the end of the summer - I am preparing myself for a bumpy road ahead and just hope I'm one of the ones who can tolerate the liquid as, now that I have it on repeat prescription, it seems the best way for me to get off this horrible drug.

 

So I'm doing ok, riding some waves, doing as much self care and resting as I can and getting ready for the next stage in this journey 

 

Would love to hear from any of you 

 

Malbec x 

[Gridley]

52 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

switching brands could cause big problems

It definitely can.  I'm glad you found your old brand. I'm hoping things quiet down soon.  Be sure you're stable before you switch to the liquid.and definitely do a gradual switch. We recommend:

 

3/4 tablet, 1/4 liquid for 3 to 7 days

1/2 tablet, 1/2 liquid for 3 to 7 days

1/4 tablet, 3/4 liquid for 3 to 7 days

all liquid thereafter

 

Since you had a rough time switching brands, you might consider staying at each stage toward the longer (7 days) end rather the shorter end.

[Ripley]

Hi Malbec

 

I'm sorry to hear you had some upset with the different brand and I hope things settle down again soon. It would make sense to take the cautious approach with switching to the liquid. 

 

Congratulations on getting the liquid prescription! It's frustrating doctors are reluctant to prescribe the format which assists tapering! I have a review next month so I hope my doctor will renew it. I'm prepared to pay for it privately if necessary but I hope it doesn't become difficult. How long is your prescription on repeat for? I'm pleased for you! 

 

I hope you have a good week off and can enjoy the beautiful weather we're having and feel better.

 

Best wishes

Ripley

[Malbec37]

@Ripley lovely to hear from you, thanks for commenting and for wishing me a speedy return to a window. Today I woke up again in a wave again...just feeling nauseous, fatigued, strong tinnitus...I'm sure you know all about it. I was doing so well and have been derailed by switching brands and back again - I keep telling myself I should have known but I was doing so well on 15mg after nearly 5 months and didn't think I would be so affected by changing from one brand to another whilst on same amount. But it's a learning curve and I know the I will settle down sooner or later and a good window of recovery will come again. I don't feel too bad now that I'm up and I'm going for a sound healing treatment later which really helps me...as does being in nature and bare foot walking. Also have my fortnightly therapy session today which really helps

 

I didn't know we could buy the liquid privately!? I have looked it up and it seems be made by Rosemont Pharmaceuticals and this is the price currently:

 

Mirtazapine Oral Solution 15mg/ml (S/F)

Do not store above 25°C 36 months / 1.5 months 66ml £57.45

 

Is that the one? I thought cost £110 so if necessary I would be happy to pay this price to keep going on the liquid. If it is 66ml (with 1ml containing 15mg mertzapine) then it's a 1.5 month supply which is good. I'm not sure how long I will get it on repeat but hopefully my doctor will just forget about it and leave it on there as long as I need it. I have told him it will take me a year to taper from 15mg but in reality it will take me longer...probably more like 2 years which feels like a very long time but I know I cannot rush as I'm clearly super sensitive to this drug

 

@Gridleythanks for commenting my friend, it's always good to know you are there! I know you help a lot of people on this site so I'm grateful you're still keeping an eye on my thread. I do think you're right I will definitely do a 7 day period for each part of the gradual switch across

[sunnysideup69]

@Malbec37, it's crazy how a brand change can have such an effect, isn't it? As if it weren't difficult enough to taper already.....

 

I'm really glad you've got the liquid prescribed, that should make things a whole lot easier if you taper across to it as suggested.

 

Good to hear you're doing well over all. Sending good wishes for this wave to go away for you soon.

[Malbec37]

@sunnysideup69 great to hear from you! Yes there is so much to consider...I think I sort of knew that changing manufacturers could affect things but I was so stable on 15mg I dropped my guard a little and switched brands when I should have found more of existing one. Oh well I’ve learnt the mistake now and won’t repeat it

 

I’m ok, got the horrible chemical buzzy tinnitus thing going on in my head which is unpleasant but just my brain trying to get used to the old brand again...boy am I sensitive and boy is this going to be a long journey 

 

Love Malbec x 

[Ripley]

Morning @Malbec37

 

I hope you're doing ok? I have a quick question about something you've also experienced.

 

I've recently been waking at 4.30am and been unable to get back to sleep again. (Usually, I'd be out until 7ish and then struggle to get up!) I know you had the same problem a few weeks ago and you said you took "a pretty high dose of Vit. C" before bed, which did the trick! I wondered how much you took and if you had any more details you could give me please? 

 

Perhaps it's a "cortisol spike" but I don't feel particularly anxious then - just disappointed it's so early! Did you feel anxious? Are you sleeping ok now?

 

I was really hoping to get back on my taper this week so I'm frustrated this new problem or wave has cropped up. I hope I can solve it like you did.

 

Hope things are going well with you. Have you started your taper over to the liquid?

 

Best wishes

Ripley x

[Malbec37]

@Ripley good to hear from you but sorry your sleep is being affected in this way. It’s no fun I know. Yes it seems that taking 1000mg around an hour before bed makes a big difference for me...I certainly seem to have more restful sleep in the morning when I do this than when I didn’t. But we are all different so I hope it might work for you too

 

I also have black out curtains and turn off WiFi at night which both help, I believe..as well as high quality magnesium supplement 

 

no I have not yet switched to liquid...I am still settling again after difficulties of the tablet brand switch and back again totally derailed me. But stabilising now so will give it 2 to 3 weeks more before starting a gradual change over. 🤞

 

Wishing you a good week my friend 

 

Malbec 

[Ripley]

Hi @Malbec37

 

Thank you for your speedy reply. I've looked at links on this site and others have found Vit C good for calming the nerves too, so I'll give it a go. I'll probably start with 500mg before bed and see how I do with that.

 

I've always had blackout curtains and use earplugs as well now my child is older. Thanks for your suggestions  

 

Glad you're settling after the brand switch. Wishing you a good week as well - it's going to be a hot one!

 

Ripley x

 

[Malbec37]

Hi everyone, hope all are well

 

Here is my update:

 

So the last time I wrote I had been suffering WD waves because of changing brand of mirtazapine...I switched back to the original brand and eventually I did stabilise and felt a lot better consistently...but was a real shock to be so destabilised by simply a brand switch but now I know NEVER to switch brands and that is great knowledge to have!

 

Since then I have had quite a bit of time off work but the funny thing is I have felt more exhausted because of the time off...probably because of slowing down. Recently I have been feeling quite poorly with blocked sinuses and low energy and only today have I started to feel a bit more energised and happier. I thought it was all down to maybe a cold but I can see that I have also been in another WD wave as my tinnitus has been really strong and mood quite low...I thought I would be totally stable by now having been on 15mg for 5 months but clearly waves can still happen!...what do others think about this? Good news is I can feel some positivity returning today which is welcome 

 

My plan is to wait until beginning on August and then, assuming I'm feeling pretty good, I'm going to start the gradual switch to liquid mirtazapine using the method Gridley suggested...this will mean I will be on liquid fully towards end of August and can then spend a few weeks stabilising before doing my first reduction. I really pray that my body takes to the liquid as I have heard of some who could not tolerate it.

 

I am currently undecided as to whether to start with a 10% reduction for min 4 weeks or start with a 5% reduction and see if I get any WD from that. I know it's my choice but any thought around this?

 

I'm excited to get going again and, although I do not want to rush anything, it'll feel good to know that I am going down once again

 

In meantime I am going to move my fortnightly therapy to weekly and also in the process of looking for a new job

 

Be good to hear from any of you lovely people out there 

 

Love Malbec in Bristol 

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

I am currently undecided as to whether to start with a 10% reduction for min 4 weeks or start with a 5% reduction and see if I get any WD from that. I know it's my choice but any thought around this?

 

If you are unsure it would be better to make a smaller reduction to start.  This way you won't be adding additional stress worrying about whether 10% is too much.

[Malbec37]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

If you are unsure it would be better to make a smaller reduction to start.  This way you won't be adding additional stress worrying about whether 10% is too much.

 

Thanks @ChessieCatgood advice! I think I will start at 5% and see what happens and if there are any WD effects...I'm hopeful that if I do 5% drops I won't have to wait longer than 2 weeks as I don't want this WD to take longer then it already will...but I guess I will find out by listening to my body and will go at whatever speed is necessary to enable me to carry on functioning day to day and working etc 

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Malbec37 said:

I'm hopeful that if I do 5% drops I won't have to wait longer than 2 weeks

We still recommend a 4-week hold whether you're dropping 10% or 5%.  Symptoms can be delayed and you want to give your system time to adjust to the new dosage, whether it be 10% less or 5% less.  After all the progress you've made, you don't want to risk destabilizing.  There's a section in the following link about whether you can taper faster that 10%/4 weeks.  But I'd advise caution.  As you said, you want to carry on functioning and working.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

You're doing great, Malbec.

[sunnysideup69]

Please take Gridley's advice, @Malbec37.It's so tempting to rush, but it's absolutely not worth it.

[Malbec37]

On 7/6/2020 at 3:50 PM, Gridley said:

We still recommend a 4-week hold whether you're dropping 10% or 5%.  Symptoms can be delayed and you want to give your system time to adjust to the new dosage, whether it be 10% less or 5% less.  After all the progress you've made, you don't want to risk destabilizing.  There's a section in the following link about whether you can taper faster that 10%/4 weeks.  But I'd advise caution.  As you said, you want to carry on functioning and working.

Thanks @Gridley yes it makes sense not to do 5% every 2 weeks but minimum a month. I’m currently struggling quite badly with WD symptoms again especially poor sleep and tinnitus. Feeling quite dependent that after 5 months of stabilising on 15mg my WD symptoms appear to be getting worse again and not settling down...is this common? I guess it’s just another wave but feels stronger than before. I hope it settles down soon. I know I have to not rush but I do want to switch to liquid soon and do my first reduction in Sept. 

 

I am doing everything I can to help the healing but can see how dependent I have become to this drug and just how long it will take to heal 

[sunnysideup69]

8 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

Thanks @Gridley yes it makes sense not to do 5% every 2 weeks but minimum a month. I’m currently struggling quite badly with WD symptoms again especially poor sleep and tinnitus. Feeling quite dependent that after 5 months of stabilising on 15mg my WD symptoms appear to be getting worse again and not settling down...is this common? I guess it’s just another wave but feels stronger than before. I hope it settles down soon. I know I have to not rush but I do want to switch to liquid soon and do my first reduction in Sept. 

 

I am doing everything I can to help the healing but can see how dependent I have become to this drug and just how long it will take to heal 

@Malbec37, a friendly tip here...please don't pressurise yourself to be on a schedule for tapering. The fact that you are having a noticeable wave would indicate that it's possibly a bit too soon. Honestly, you want to be as stable as possible, in my humble opinion. Stable doesn't mean symptom free, but it would be in your best interests if your waves were hardly noticeable....as mild as possible. You're not in pooput, so there's no point in rushing ahead, surely?

Honestly, I get it. I LONG to be off this stuff, but there is absolutley no point in rushing and destabilising yourself further. I would personally take timetables off the agenda. Timetables are not about listening to your body...

[Malbec37]

14 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

@Malbec37, a friendly tip here...please don't pressurise yourself to be on a schedule for tapering. The fact that you are having a noticeable wave would indicate that it's possibly a bit too soon. Honestly, you want to be as stable as possible, in my humble opinion. Stable doesn't mean symptom free, but it would be in your best interests if your waves were hardly noticeable....as mild as possible. You're not in pooput, so there's no point in rushing ahead, surely?

Honestly, I get it. I LONG to be off this stuff, but there is absolutley no point in rushing and destabilising yourself further. I would personally take timetables off the agenda. Timetables are not about listening to your body...

Hi @sunnysideup69 thanks for this insight. You’re totally right about listening to the body and not having a timetable. I think I just am a bit despondent at currently struggling so much after what I thought was a long period of stabilising and going through a pretty consistent long period of stability...but now I am in a strong wave again and of course it feels like no healing has happened at all. But of course it has and I just need to accept where things are at right now and continue to take it one day at a time. 
 

Going to get going now and go out in the rain and do some exercise 

 

thanks again for responding x 

[sunnysideup69]

40 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

I think I just am a bit despondent at currently struggling so much after what I thought was a long period of stabilising and going through a pretty consistent long period of stability...but now I am in a strong wave again and of course it feels like no healing has happened at all. But of course it has and I just need to accept where things are at right now and continue to take it one day at a time. 

 

Exactly right. Lots of healing has happened, which we always forget when in a wave. You'll settle again, this is a temporary blip.

[Gridley]

5 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

I guess it’s just another wave

Yes, they will come and go, sometimes weaker, sometimes stronger.  I'm sorry you're having a bad time, but it is common to experience this.

5 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

do my first reduction in Sept. 

 

As Sunnysideup said, listen to your body rather than try to set a schedule.  We really can't rush this.

[Malbec37]

9 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Exactly right. Lots of healing has happened, which we always forget when in a wave. You'll settle again, this is a temporary blip.

 

Thanks for the reassurance I'm grateful 

 

4 hours ago, Gridley said:

Yes, they will come and go, sometimes weaker, sometimes stronger.  I'm sorry you're having a bad time, but it is common to experience this.

 

Thanks Gridley it's good to know it's normal as difficult as it is 

[Ripley]

Hi

 

I was sorry to read you've experienced another wave Malbec and I hope you're coming out of that and feeling a bit better? 

 

It's natural to feel despondent sometimes - I certainly do - but remember you've come a long way by reducing your drug burden by 50%, which is excellent. And it won't be long before you're reducing again. I don't see why the next stages shouldn't go well for you if you take them nice and gently. Perhaps try a brass monkey slide taper? This seems the gentlest way to reduce to me. And try to take it just one step at a time - this is what I keep telling myself anyway!

 

Sometimes I feel like a snail creeping down to zero - but a snail who sleeps (hopefully)!  

 

Hope you have a good weekend,

Ripley

 

[Malbec37]

12 hours ago, Ripley said:

Hi

 

I was sorry to read you've experienced another wave Malbec and I hope you're coming out of that and feeling a bit better? 

 

It's natural to feel despondent sometimes - I certainly do - but remember you've come a long way by reducing your drug burden by 50%, which is excellent. And it won't be long before you're reducing again. I don't see why the next stages shouldn't go well for you if you take them nice and gently. Perhaps try a brass monkey slide taper? This seems the gentlest way to reduce to me. And try to take it just one step at a time - this is what I keep telling myself anyway!

 

Sometimes I feel like a snail creeping down to zero - but a snail who sleeps (hopefully)!  

 

Hope you have a good weekend,

Ripley

 

Hi @Ripley nice to hear from you 

 

I’ve had a crazy few days...really bad WD Weds felt so unwell then back in a good window thurs and fri then today back into a terrible WD again...it’s so up and down and really hate this right now. Last night a friend came over and we had some desert which had sugars in it although was all natural quality and not refined but think it’s tipped me into WD again...my mistake 

 

Right now I just feel so tired of it all 

 

I think I’ve been destabilised by the brand switch problems I had not long ago and my CNS is still destabilised.

 

Hoping that I wake up feeling a bit better tomorrow 

 

Hope you’re ok and thanks for staying in touch 

[Ripley]

Hi Malbec

 

I hope you have woken up and feel better today? It's disheartening when seemingly innocuous things (like a dessert) trigger WD symptoms. Over the last few months, I've had total insomnia in response to very minor things such as a group Zoom call in the evening or being a bit upset before bed or a bit anxious about something the next day. I sometimes wonder if I'll be able to handle 'normal' life and stresses again.

 

I guess we're learning about how our systems are sensitised and have to adapt accordingly. I hope you stabilise quickly after the sugar and brand switch. Those are two things you know to avoid in future! Meanwhile, I will continue to pursue incredibly boring evenings

 

Best

Ripley

[Malbec37]

22 hours ago, Ripley said:

Hi Malbec

 

I hope you have woken up and feel better today? It's disheartening when seemingly innocuous things (like a dessert) trigger WD symptoms. Over the last few months, I've had total insomnia in response to very minor things such as a group Zoom call in the evening or being a bit upset before bed or a bit anxious about something the next day. I sometimes wonder if I'll be able to handle 'normal' life and stresses again.

 

I guess we're learning about how our systems are sensitised and have to adapt accordingly. I hope you stabilise quickly after the sugar and brand switch. Those are two things you know to avoid in future! Meanwhile, I will continue to pursue incredibly boring evenings

 

Hi @Ripley thanks for responding. unfortunately I seem to be getting worse and it's really starting to get me very down now. My waves are stronger and more debilitating than before and more frequent....In the last week 4 days have been terrible waves and the other 3 days were good windows...but today is second heavy wave in a row and I'm actually struggling to cope now. I have to go to work and I'm dragging myself through the days and just feeling like I'm running out of energy for this. I'm stuck and I don't know what to do....I absolutely HATE this drug and it's ruining my life

 

I cannot really understand how I can be getting worse after holding for 5 months!? The only major thing that happened is that I switched brand for 6 days and then back onto the old brand...this was maybe 4-5 weeks ago....could this have destabilised me so much that I am now feeling worse than ever? @Gridleywhat do you think please? 

 

Before the brand switch I was still suffering on some days but it was way less intense and it was mostly windows so felt ready to switch and start tapering 

 

I know there's nothing I can do other than persevere but I am really hating my life right now

[Ripley]

Hi Malbec

 

I'm really sorry you're going through this. It does seem hard to believe and unfair after 5 months of holding and the brand switch now over a month ago. Surely things must settle down again soon. 

 

I completely understand that this will be getting you down. Is it affecting your sleep? Hang in there and try to be kind to yourself, you will get through it. At least there seem to be windows? I hope another one opens again very soon. Hopefully this wave will be shorter than the last one and you will feel some progress again.

 

Wishing you well,

Ripley x

[ChessieCat]

58 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

The only major thing that happened is that I switched brand for 6 days and then back onto the old brand...this was maybe 4-5 weeks ago

 

Is there anything else that happened that might have caused this increase in symptoms?

 

How have you been affected by the Covid situation?  We have had quite a few members posting that they have had expected and/or worse waves during the last few months.

 

It might be that you had been coping okay with however you have been affected and keeping ahead of any stress and now the balance has been tipped the other way.  The additional stress of the brand change may have been the last straw.

 

Also, how did you cope when you started getting worse after the brand switch?  Did that stress you out?  Is it possible that you are worrying and concerned about how that change and the change back has affected you.  Are you worrying about when to start tapering and about how that might go?

 

Have you missed any doses?

Have you drunk any alcohol?

Have you stopped/started any supplements?

Have you been sleeping less than usual?

Have you been going out more and/or exercising more?

 

It is very easy for our first assumption to be that it has something to do with the drug.  We need to play detective and consider what else may have contributed to an increase in symptoms.

[Malbec37]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Is there anything else that happened that might have caused this increase in symptoms?

 

Yes about 10 days ago I took a herbal tincture called Tulsi or Holy Basil as I was feeling rundown and someone gave me some and said it would support my immune system. I took it about 4 or 5 times...15 drops each time. I think it may have been this that has destabilised me 

 

I also bought an earthing sheet for my bed which is supposed to improve sleep but it could also be this. I’ve sent it back! 

 

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

How have you been affected by the Covid situation?  We have had quite a few members posting that they have had expected and/or worse waves during the last few months.

 

Well I’ve been working throughout it as a support worker in mental health and coping pretty well I thought. But recently I’ve been feeling rundown and exhausted at times so this could be contributing. I have a holiday away next week so hoping this time off should help 

 

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you missed any doses?

Have you drunk any alcohol?

Have you stopped/started any supplements?

Have you been sleeping less than usual?

Have you been going out more and/or exercising more?

 

Not skipped any doses 

only alcohol was in the herbal tincture I mentioned 

no other supplements aside from usual magnesium, fish oil and vit C 

yes sleep has been affected and is not good currently 

trying to exercise and possibly going out a little more since lockdown eased 

 

😀

[ChessieCat]

54 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

Yes about 10 days ago I took a herbal tincture called Tulsi or Holy Basil as I was feeling rundown and someone gave me some and said it would support my immune system. I took it about 4 or 5 times...15 drops each time. I think it may have been this that has destabilised me 

 

Before taking anything new I suggest that you do a search on this website to see whether other members have found it helpful or harmful.  Use a search engine and add site: survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

holy-basil-or-tulsi-ocimum-sanctum

 

59 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

Well I’ve been working throughout it as a support worker in mental health and coping pretty well I thought. But recently I’ve been feeling rundown and exhausted at times so this could be contributing.

 

It's probably a stressful job at the best of times.  In the current situation I imagine that it would be even more so.

 

59 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

yes sleep has been affected and is not good currently 

 

See Alto's post in the Holy Basil topic.

 

 

My thought is that it the combination of some, most or all of the things, including the brand switching, which have caused the wave.  When there are multiple things it is not possible to know exactly what has caused the increase in symptoms.