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Malbec37

Malbec37: tapering off mirtazapine / Remeron and hit major WD

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Gridley
5 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

could this have destabilised me so much that I am now feeling worse than ever?

It's possible.  We can't know for sure, of course, but our systems are so sensitive.  I'm sorry you're feeling so bad.  It could also be the herb you took or, a combination of causes.

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Ripley

Hi Malbec, how are you doing? Have things settled down for you?

Best wishes, Ripley

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Malbec37

@Ripleythanks for checking in. Thankfully my CNS seems to have stabilised. I think it was definitely the combo of brand switch and herbal tincture that destabilised me...was really awful experience, WD symptoms are really hideous 

 

But feeling much better now and on holiday for a week in Devon and Cornwall 😀

 

When I’m back I’ll start the gradual switch across to the prescribed liquid and hold it doesn’t trigger more WD and that I can get stable before next reduction 

 

How are you? 

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Ripley

Hey that's great Malbec! I'm really pleased for you. I'm glad you're back on track. 

 

I'll post an update on my thread shortly. Enjoy your hols!

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sunnysideup69

Am glad you've settled @Malbec37.

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Malbec37

Hi all

 

Hope all are well and here is my update:

 

I am currently doing well and have stabilised a lot since my recent problems of bad WD waves that made me feel so terribly sick...but they have currently stopped and I've been in a pretty solid window for 10 days or so now and I went on holiday to the SW of UK camping and staying with an old friend and felt pretty good throughout. I tried to avoid all naughty things like sugar, gluten and alcohol but couldn't entirely without telling people what I was going through which I didn't feel like doing...so I indulged a little and it didn't affect me too bad although on the night I had sugar I didn't sleep well which is no surprise given what I know about sugar. But anyway main thing is I had a great time on my hols which has been good for my soul, and now I'm home in Bristol and I have my house to myself as my lodger has left and I'm feeling stable and in a good place :)

 

So now I am going to try and switch from 15mg pill to 15mg prescribed liquid in the gradual way recommended by @Gridley by doing 7 days of each gradual transition across

 

In many ways I'm concerned now about tipping myself back into WD again by doing this switch but also I have been holding on 15mg for 5 months now and I do want to get across to the liquid so I can do my first reduction down...I'm not rushing and I'm stable but I do need to keep going otherwise I'll never be free of this stuff

 

So I need a little help with the switch across as detailed below please:

 

I am going to start my gradual switch from pill 15mg to prescribed mert liquid 15mg. I am planning to do 1/4 liquid 3/4 pill for a week, 1/2 pill and 1/2 liquid for a week, 1/4 pill and 3/4 liquid for a week and then all liquid thereafter...this is to try and limit any WD from changing form of medication and brand

 

My question is because the 15mg pills are all weighing slightly different amounts between 15mg and 15.5mg (due to fillers and binders) what amount of pill should I be cutting and measuring to get an accurate 3/4 of 15mg Active Ingredient Mert for the first stage of transition?

 

My thinking is to measure weight of 7 pills (for one week) and then add them up and divide by 7 so giving an average weight and then X this by 0.75 to get an amount for 3/4 and then take that together with the correct amount of liquid for 1/4...is this correct?

 

I guess I'm a little confused how to get a precise 3/4 of pill given that they weigh slightly different amounts

 

Any useful and constructive advice would be welcome

 

Thanks all

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Gridley
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

 

I guess I'm a little confused how to get a precise 3/4 of pill given that they weigh slightly different amounts

 

 

32 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

the 15mg pills are all weighing slightly different amounts between 15mg and 15.5mg (due to fillers and binders

It's not possible that a dosage of 15mg active ingredient (15mgai) weighs 15mg pill weight (15mgpw).  There's generally a ratio of at least 10:1 or more pill weight to active ingredient due to the fillers and binders.  For example my 20mgai brand of Lexapro weighs 200mgpw.  My 2mgai Ativan tablet weighs 30mgpw.

 

If you're taking 15mg pill weight, you're taking much less than 15mg active ingredient.

 

What dosage (active ingredient) tablet are you using and how much does it weigh?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gridley

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Malbec37
37 minutes ago, Gridley said:

It's not possible that a dosage of 15mg active ingredient (15mgai) weighs 15mg pill weight (15mgpw).  There's generally a ratio of at least 10:1 or more pill weight to active ingredient due to the fillers and binders.  For example my 20mgai brand of Lexapro weighs 200mgpw.  My 2mgai Ativan tablet weighs 30mgpw.

 

If you're taking 15mg pill weight, you're taking much less than 15mg active ingredient.

 

What dosage (active ingredient) tablet are you using and how much does it weigh?

 

Hi @Gridley thanks for the response! With mertazapine it does weigh almost the same strangely 

 

So I'm taking 15mg AI dosage mertazapine and it weights usually 15.4 or 15.5mg but occasionally only 15!? I'm 100% certain of it, no doubt at all

 

So the fillers and binders can only be .4 or .5 of a mg at the very most 

 

So I think maybe the best way forward is to find 7 tablets that weigh the most typical amount of 15.4 and then take 0.75 or 3/4 so that would be 11.55mg plus the 3.75mg of liquid 

 

What do you think?

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Gridley
10 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

So I think maybe the best way forward is to find 7 tablets that weigh the most typical amount of 15.4 and then take 0.75 or 3/4 so that would be 11.55mg plus the 3.75mg of liquid 

 

That sounds like a good plan.

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Malbec37
2 minutes ago, Gridley said:

That sounds like a good plan.

 

Cool cheers :)

 

There is another chap on a different mert forum who said that he straight switched across without gradual transition and had no problems at all...it's very tempting but also just because that worked for him doesn't mean it would for me and I don't want to go into some nightmare WD again because of that  

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Gridley
3 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

just because that worked for him doesn't mean it would for me

Exactly.  Everyone's different.  We definitely recommend the gradual switchover to make the transition less disruptive to your system.  People often react differently to liquid as opposed to tablet due to absorption rate and other factors.

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sunnysideup69

Hey @Malbec37, thought I'd just drop by and say hello! I think you were on holiday recently? Hope it was enjoyable. How are you doing these days?

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Malbec37
On 8/1/2020 at 11:36 AM, sunnysideup69 said:

Hey @Malbec37, thought I'd just drop by and say hello! I think you were on holiday recently? Hope it was enjoyable. How are you doing these days?

 

Hi Sunny lovely to hear from you! Yes I went to North Devon coast camping solo for 3 days, totally beautiful, and then I went to Cornwall to stay with old friends...I have written a detailed run down in my previous big post above that you can read.

 

I had a great time all in all and was pretty stable...now I am back and in the thick of things...work quite full on and also started teaching yoga again. I'm mostly in a stable window which I'm enjoying but I do want to get across from 15mg pill to liquid and that is a transition which can cause more WD waves but there is NO way of avoiding them (if they happen) so I'm going to start my gradual shift with part pill part liquid tonight...I've got all the measurements precise and ready to go and I'm starting in a very solid place today. Fingers crossed that I can get onto the liquid and then stabilise there for a while before making my first reduction.

 

Malbec 

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Ripley

Good luck with starting your crossover tonight, Malbec. R

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sunnysideup69

You're four days in I see @Malbec37, how's it going?

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Malbec37

Thanks @Ripley and @sunnysideup69

 

So I'm approaching night 3 of taking 3/4 pill and 1/4 liquid...so far so good! No WD, bit of stronger tinnitus this morning but mood is solid, sleep not too bad. I've been quite nervous about it all and expecting the worst but the measurements are precise and I think I managed to reach a pretty solid and stable place before starting and this really helps. I will either do 5 or 7 days then go to 50/50.

 

I have started teaching yoga again recently which has helped me as yoga really lifts my spirits and it's also  a good balance to my other job as a support worker.

 

Also my lodger has left and I've decided to live alone for the foreseeable future....I cannot handle going through WD and having someone else living in my house. I just need a lot of space so willing to sacrifice things financially to be able to live alone for a while.

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sunnysideup69

@Malbec37, that sounds like a good plan....having some privacy and space at home. Good stuff! Got my fingers crossed that your switchover is nice and smooth.

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Malbec37

Hi all

 

Here is a little update:

 

I have one week ago begun switching from pill to prescribed Mertazapine liquid at 15mg. I started doing 3/4 pill and 1/4 liquid for 4 days, my WD symptoms increased a little but I decided to go to 50/50 pill and liquid (7.5mg each)...I am struggling a bit more today (day 2 of 50/50) with nausea, more tinnitus, lower mood, an uptick in WD symptoms basically 
 
I was really steady and stable when I started 
 
Is this normal and to be expected? I don't feel too bad and think my system is just trying to adapt...I guess there is some fear in me that I'll be one of the unlucky ones who's bodies will not tolerate the liquid and have to cross back onto the pill
 
Any insights or reassurance would be welcome
 
Thanks all
 
Malbec

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Gridley
21 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

4 days

 

You might want to extend the 4 days to a week to allow your system to become more accustomed to the new formulation.  

 

There are bound to be some bumps in the transition.  I wouldn't think about being one of the unlucky ones.  That's catastrohopizing.

Edited by Gridley

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Malbec37

@Gridley yes very wise it is catastrophising! Hard not to sometimes but not helpful I agree 

 

I was going to do a week on 3/4 1/4 but felt like my body needed more liquid for some reason so upped after 4 days 

 

I’ll hold for at least a week at 50/50

 

Gracias amigo 👍

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sunnysideup69

Good luck, you're doing great :) 

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