Malbec37: tapering off mirtazapine / Remeron and hit major WD

[juneight]

Hi Malbec. I am curious how you cope with depression. I remember you suffered recently it and now i have been taking it for 1 weeks or 10 day. Dizziness is already hard itself and this one makes it harder. Also anxiety and some light stomach probs accompany it. I think weightlifting will be a good inspiration for me to overcome these ones, but dizziness is just an obstacle to do it. Once it lifts, i give full power to cut anxiety and depression. Do you have any other suggestions?

[Malbec37]

Hi all I thought I'd write an update in here:

 

I am now 11 months stuck on 15mg mirt and things continue to be a struggle much of the time. My nervous system is so sensitised and it's now more than 6 weeks since I stupidly drank a load of alcohol and I'm still not really recovered but overall I would say that things are better than what they were and I'm through the very worst of it. But sleep is still a big issue (as it seems to be for everyone tapering mirt) and I'm starting to think that I have possibly become sensitive to high histamine foods and this is what is causing all the early waking and awful tossing and turning and vivid dreams...two nights ago I had a Thai red curry (red chilli is high histamine) and had poor sleep....2 nights before that I had a meal with tomato in and had same poor sleep...last night I had a meal with all very low to 0 histamine foods and, although I still awoke early around 5am I felt much more peaceful in bed and not crashing around in the vivid dream restlessness nightmare that I usually do...so I think maybe there could be something in the histamine thing. Anyone any thoughts or experience with this? I had thought it wouldn't be affecting me as I'm still on 15mg mirt so decent anti-histamine effect but who knows with this stuff....

 

Aside from that I do have trouble coping with stress that used to feel more manageable and I am planning to go away and stay with my parents for a few month next year to rest and recuperate and also to get out of my god awful job as a mental health support worker...I need a support worker!

 

For a while I was feeling so fed up with the whole process that I was considering CTing off of 15mg and just toughing it out whilst at my parents where I would;t have to work or feed myself...the main reason being that I have a friend of the same age who was 12 years on 30mg mirt and she came off at 15mg and was fully healed within a few weeks! She's been telling me I should do the same and in her words 'the worst would be over in a week and then you can go back to work and it might be a bit grim for a while but it's not a nightmare and you'll be fine before you know it'...it all sounds so very appealing doesn't it when competed to years of slow tapering with WD symptoms and no sleep!? I don't know what to think but don't want to make my sh*t situation even shi**er!

 

Thanks for listening all and hoping to hear back from some of you 

 

Malbec 

[Gridley]

16 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

I was considering CTing off of 15mg and just toughing it out whilst at my parents where I would;t have to work or feed myself...the main reason being that I have a friend of the same age who was 12 years on 30mg mirt and she came off at 15mg and was fully healed within a few weeks! She's been telling me I should do the same and in her words 'the worst would be over in a week and then you can go back to work and it might be a bit grim for a while but it's not a nightmare and you'll be fine before you know it'...it all sounds so very appealing doesn't it when competed to years of slow tapering with WD symptoms and no sleep!?

Malbec,

 

I would strongly urge you not to do this.  Some people can get away with this.  Your history of WD indicates that you, like the rest of us on this site, are not in this group. CT puts you at risk of a much longer and more difficult situation than where you are now.

 

21 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

sleep is still a big issue

This may not work for you, and it doesn't always work for me, but I've been having some luck in getting back to sleep by taking 0.3mg melatonin at bedtime, 100mg magnesium glycinate when I wake up the first time, and 100mg magnesium when I wake up the second time.  Many nights the magnesium allows me to get back to sleep.

 

25 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

 

Aside from that I do have trouble coping with stress that used to feel more manageable and I am planning to go away and stay with my parents for a few month next year to rest and recuperate and also to get out of my god awful job as a mental health support worker...I need a support worker!

 

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[Ripley]

Hi Malbec

 

I can only second what Gridley has said about a CT, as you know. We can only make decisions based on our own CNS and experience, even if someone else managed it. I wonder if your friend has been able to drink alcohol for example? 

 

You mention a Thai red curry possibly causing you issues. I wonder if this might be ginger rather than histamine related? You can only really see possible connections by keeping a food diary and, even then, I think some bad nights may not have an explanation or anything we can do unfortunately. 

 

It sounds like you're a lot better now than you were and hopefully you'll be stable again very soon. This is really good news Malbec. Hopefully a slow taper next year won't be too bad for you! I think we need to try to be optimistic about these things - hard sometimes I know! 

 

All the best x

[Malbec37]

On 11/23/2020 at 6:36 PM, Gridley said:

This may not work for you, and it doesn't always work for me, but I've been having some luck in getting back to sleep by taking 0.3mg melatonin at bedtime, 100mg magnesium glycinate when I wake up the first time, and 100mg magnesium when I wake up the second time.  Many nights the magnesium allows me to get back to sleep.

 

Thanks Gridley I tried this last night with a 200mg capsule and didn't work but I think it's cheap stuff I have so I'm going to find a better quality source of glycinate and at 100mg and try those

[Gridley]

23 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

I have so I'm going to find a better quality source of glycinate and at 100mg and try those

I don't know if it's available in the U.K. but I use KAL brand mag glycinate, which comes in 200mg tablets that split easily with a pill cutter.

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Malbec37! 

Yep, the alcohol experiment could still be causing you ripples, but it will most likely even out really soon.

I do notice that if I eat high histamine foods, I get itchy and sneezy, yes......hadn't linked it to sleep, that's interesting.

It could also 'just' be WD, though, the disturbed sleep. I'm WAY better, mood wise, but my sleep goes through really odd cycles of healing.

I like your plan about maybe taking some time out next year to spend with your parents and have a break, but PLEASE let your focus be upon stabilizing, not cold turkeying....that's really going to mess up your CNS, most likely. 

Good to hear from you  

[Malbec37]

On 11/28/2020 at 5:58 PM, sunnysideup69 said:

It could also 'just' be WD, though, the disturbed sleep. I'm WAY better, mood wise, but my sleep goes through really odd cycles of healing.

 

Hi @sunnysideup69yes it's very hard to say what is causing me these problems with sleep. I have been on low histamine diet 2 days now and night before last I slept really well and yesterday felt so much better...so I thought I had it cracked but then yesterday another low histamine day but then sleep last night was very poor and now feel back in a wave and suffering! Maybe it's just another wave and maybe I heed to give low histamine more time...it's just so frustrating 

[sunnysideup69]

I feel you, @Malbec37. I'm in the process of weaning off caffeine. Aiming to be caffeine free by mid to late December. And after a binge on sugar last week, which then knocked my sleep, am also cutting sugar out completely now.

 

I want to see where I'm at, what's my actual baseline without those two particular stimulants.

I cut out alcohol in April 2019 and the only reason I haven't slipped up is because I just don't have any at all....I know people talk about 'everything in moderation', but for me, that just doesn't work. If I want to lay off something, then I just have to have none of it, whatsoever.

It's a bum, but it's all for the good in the end. Just think, one day all of this will be a dim memory. 

[Malbec37]

My update:

 

Hi all really need advice: I am struggling very badly with insomnia night after night...it's been like this for past 2 months most of the time. In October I had 17 nights of acute insomnia. Last night I awoke at 1.30am (yes I did look at the phone by mistake) but no matter my head was buzzing insanely with tinnitus and a feeling like you get when you listen into a sea shell to hear the sound of the waves...was like that sound of waviness but amplified by 10 and in my brain. I had intense anxiety, racing thoughts, sweating and there was no way that I was going to be able to calm my system down by listening to hypnosis (I tried and 45 mins later was still listening and wide awake)...so in the end and in despair I took 7.5mg zopiclone tablet so I could get some sleep and be able to function at work today.

 

It's been like this most of the time for the past 2 months since when I mistakenly drank some alcohol and triggered off a long unrelenting wave...there have been some better days but mostly terrible insomnia is the problem. I thought it might be too much histamine in my body so I've been on the low histamine diet for 5 days now and no improvement...actually it has got worse. I will try and stick to the diet for a month but it is in itself demanding when I am so tired.

 

Prior to all of this I have been on 15mg for the whole year since Jan and had three periods of bad waves when I tried to reduce to 11.25 in Jan (after dropping from 30 via 22.5) and got hit by combined WD...this then settled down after a few weeks once I went back to 15 and then the other two times have been when I changed brand of mirt and also when I tried to cross taper onto prescribed liquid...both made my WD symptoms especially insomnia intolerable but when I stabilised after a couple of weeks I felt totally ok and back to regular sleep.

 

So my question friends is what is going on now!? Can this still be a wave after more than 8 weeks after a few too many drinks. I'm finding it extremely hard to hold it together and desperate for some relief.

 

I am using CBD oil which helps with anxiety in the day but not with sleep, 1mg melatonin and ashwagandha to try and help with cortisol spikes 

 

Could it be a problem with the adrenal glands producing too much cortisol?

 

Im even thinking of dropping to 7.5mg as there you are supposed to be more sedated so will sleep better and be able to deal better than any withdrawals

 

Hope to hear from you

Malbec

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by ChessieCat
reduced font size

[sunnysideup69]

Hi @Malbec37,

Sorry you're still having sleep issues.

Personally, yes, I think you *could* still be having some reaction to the alcohol incident 8 weeks ago, especially as you have also made dosage adjustments this year. Our nervous systems are very fragile and reactive as a result of these drugs.

 

Also, when did you add the ashwaghanda? I ask because the adaptogens can have the opposite effect in WD. A few years back (2016) I was able to tolerate Citalopram alongside Rhodiola, another adaptogen, with no side effects. It was very calming and stabilising, to be honest.

 

However, trying it again in 2018, at the beginning of my bad WDs, it had exactly the opposite effect and made me SUPER anxious.

 

Things can go a bit rogue in WD and have a paradoxical effect.

Sending you good wishes, dude. Hope this spell of suffering resolves quickly for you xx

[Malbec37]

Hi all

 

Quick update from me: I'm feeling a whole load better of late and my sleep has come back properly which is a great relief. I have been on the low histamine diet now for 15 days alongside taking a histamine reducing probiotic called Histamine X and I think it's doing me a lot of good. The diet is quite restrictive but I'm finding a way to get enough nutrients and cooking with different ingredients so all good for now. My mood is so much better in general and energy levels too...definite strong window and stability. I did take some sleeping tablets too for a few nights to try and reset my sleep cycles so I'm sure that's also helped

 

Cheers 

 

Malbec 

[AdviceNeeded]

That’s excellent news, pleased to hear it.

[RickyIsHealing]

malbec , how are you finding the cbd oil ? i may try it for ym anxiety

[Malbec37]

Hi @RickyIsHealingI find CBD generally very helpful. But you need to buy quality. Someone referred to it as promoting a sense of 'inner calm' and I think that is correct, at least in my experience anyway 

[Malbec37]

I also forgot to mention in my post that I stopped using the Ashwagandha as it may have been affecting my nervous system 

[RickyIsHealing]

I acctuly have some upstairs,  some good stuff , but I stopped using it as I read it can be a depressant so I got scared as I'm trying to avoid that low mood ( obvusly haha) ..I'm unsure now ..I'm not using any supplements currently except a natrul sleeping aid called nuro rest ..anxiaty is my main problem currently.

 

God bless 🙏 

[manymoretodays]

Malbec37,

I just managed to split a few of those from Ramona and JesusSaveme....., over to Ramona's Introduction.

And come on guys, I mean it's obvious now, how we might miss Malbec37's updates, when you come on anothers' Introduction, and go on about your own situations, and then start going back and forth with these conversations, that have nothing to do with support or encouragement for Malbec.

 

Looks like I've got a few more to go now too, and will get some others moved to their threads.

 

Apologies Malbec.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Just quoting your update here Malbec37, while I toil away, splitting and moving posts.   I do love you guys, all of you, and my job/role here, but this gets time consuming.

And okay, clean up and reorganization of Malbec37's Introduction done.

 

8 hours ago, Malbec37 said:

I also forgot to mention in my post that I stopped using the Ashwagandha as it may have been affecting my nervous system 

Edited December 13, 2020 by manymoretodays
ta da, almost done with cleanup

[Malbec37]

@manymoretodaysthat’s amazing thanks so much and for everything you moderators do for nothing. Very grateful 

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Malbec37

Really glad you are doing better! Also glad you stopped with the ashwaghanda, it's best to leave alone in WD. Those adaptogens are powerful. Rhodiola sent me off on a rocket ship in WD! 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Hello @Malbec37, how are you doing? Hope Christmas has been ok. I'm heading down to Chippenham to see my parents tomorrow, got too freaked out by lockdown in London to go at Christmas. Hope the West Country is a bit calmer.

[Malbec37]

Hello all...here is an update:

 

I'm doing mostly well...many more windows then waves. I have been eating a low histamine diet for 6 weeks now and I feel/think that it helps me a lot so I am sticking with it throughout my taper...Iit's not so difficult once you get the hang of I. I am also taking 1.5mg melatonin at night and 200mg magnesium glycinate...the combo seems to be working and I am getting better sleep

 

So now in Jan and locked down again although I am working out and about as a support worker. Work is ok although I do want out of it but I will wait a little while longer before looking for a new job as things are uncertain still due to Covid and my job gives me a good income. I have put my decision as to what comes next on hold but I imagine I will start a taper from 15mg downwards once I have a new job and am settled there - I am not sure whether to do dry cutting and measuring from 15mg or switch to making my own liquid at 15mg then reduce...it'll make sense over coming weeks I guess 

 

So feeling stable, minimal WD...still have tinnitus but low level and very manageable 

 

Love to all

 

Malbec x 

[Ramona]

4 minutes ago, Malbec37 said:

Hello all...here is an update:

 

I'm doing mostly well...many more windows then waves. I have been eating a low histamine diet for 6 weeks now and I feel/think that it helps me a lot so I am sticking with it throughout my taper...Iit's not so difficult once you get the hang of I. I am also taking 1.5mg melatonin at night and 200mg magnesium glycinate...the combo seems to be working and I am getting better sleep

 

So now in Jan and locked down again although I am working out and about as a support worker. Work is ok although I do want out of it but I will wait a little while longer before looking for a new job as things are uncertain still due to Covid and my job gives me a good income. I have put my decision as to what comes next on hold but I imagine I will start a taper from 15mg downwards once I have a new job and am settled there - I am not sure whether to do dry cutting and measuring from 15mg or switch to making my own liquid at 15mg then reduce...it'll make sense over coming weeks I guess 

 

So feeling stable, minimal WD...still have tinnitus but low level and very manageable 

 

Love to all

 

Malbec x 

Proud of u

[DD44]

@Malbec37

 

can you leave the link for the histamine supplement you’re taking? 
 

im on 6.8 of Mirt and suffering nightly with getting any rest 

Thank you 

Hope you’re well 

[Malbec37]

@DD44just look it up it’s called HistaminX 

 

I do think low histamine is a key part of mirt WD, at least for me 

 

I also take melatonin and magnesium glycinate at night 

[Ripley]

Hi Malbec

 

I'm glad to read you're in a good place and having more windows than waves. It sounds like a pragmatic plan regarding work and waiting until you're settled to start tapering. 

 

Have you found longer walks or exercise increase your symptoms? I still have to be careful not to exert myself much or it results in insomnia, which isn't great. Apart from that my sleep seems to be settling down again thankfully and I'm able to do home-schooling, which I couldn't have done back in November! Despite the stresses, I'm actually glad of the distraction now to not think about Mirt so much! 

 

It's good you're having success with melatonin and magnesium. I'm going to try to introduce the latter soon.

 

I guess we're in a similar position of just holding now until our circumstances and bodies feel ready to start tapering again. I think it's going to be another few months for me at least. I've finally accepted this process will take as long as it takes. 

 

Here's hoping 2021 will be a better year! Rx

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Malbec37, good to hear you're doing better and relatively stable.

 

I've also been taking a magnesium glycinate supplement, have just upped to 200mg and I really think it aids with sleep.

 

@Ripley, I'm not on mirtazipine, but yes, I do find excessive exercise makes me a bit symptomatic, to be honest.

 

Good wishes to you both  

[Malbec37]

Hi everyone 

 

Thought I'd write an update as it's been a while 

 

Overall things are positive although I have just come out the other wide of a wave that lasted around one week...seemed to come out of nowhere, sleep started deteriorating each night and by last Friday I was bang awake at 2am and super restless and mentally agitated! Was feeling shattered and my tinnitus increased which is always the sign of an increasing wave. Thinking about it the only thing on my mind was to do with whether to stay in my job or leave and also I was having some problems in a relationship with a friend...reflecting on it I think this stress may have been enough to tip my CNS into a wave and also I had been working a fair amount too which would have contributed. I took sleeping tablets for a couple of nights which helped and practiced as much self care as I could...I felt very low on Sunday with no energy or motivation for anything...I stopped drinking the one coffee a day that I'd allowed myself. Good news last couple of days things have picked up, sleep has become more restful and I feel back in a window

 

I've decided to accept an offer to stay with my job and move to a new team...there are definite benefits to staying there and I won't have to go through the stress of starting again somewhere in such uncertain times. I have decided that once I have got used to my new role then in a few weeks I will switch to a home made liquid mirtazapine and then, once my system is settled on the liquid, I will make my first reduction to 13.5 (10%)...it's been 13 months now that I've been on 15mg and overall my system feels as stable as it's going to get so I am ready to start tapering again soon...

 

I am a little fearful of tapering but I know it's the only way to get off mirt and I've got through WD before and I can do so again...I'm hoping that the low histamine diet will help and all the experience that I've gained in the last 18 months will help too...I will continue with the self care to try and guide my CNS through this and keep my stress levels down 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Malbec37,

Thanks for dropping by my thread  I also feel I've pretty much stabilised as much as I'm going to, to be honest. I'm in a fairly decent place.

Yep, stress can definitely tip us into waves, that's a fact. And our nervous systems are fragile as a result of these drugs/ WD. Sounds like you're practising good self care. Also, I think the switch of team is a great idea....it keeps things relatively stable, doesn't it?

 

[sunnysideup69]

PS @Malbec37, did you say you were moving back in with your parents? Or have you decided to stay in your own place? I'm heading down to Chippenham very briefly next week to see my parents, who are my 'support bubble.' 

Who knows, one day we may even meet when I'm down your way  

[Malbec37]

23 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

PS @Malbec37, did you say you were moving back in with your parents? Or have you decided to stay in your own place? I'm heading down to Chippenham very briefly next week to see my parents, who are my 'support bubble.' 

Who knows, one day we may even meet when I'm down your way  

Hi @sunnysideup69 yes you’re right I was planning on going to live with my folks but that was when I was thinking of doing a CT from 15mg but I’m no longer thinking that way and planning to taper slowly...I was just suffering so badly at the end of last year and I thought things can’t be any worse so may as well just stop but things have improved and I think my CNS doesn’t need that level of stress and I should try and get as low as possible 

 

Also due to Covid it’s not so easy now 

 

so I’m staying here and making slow and steady progress towards my goal 

 

Hope you have a nice time with your folks x 

[Ripley]

Hey Malbec

 

Always good to hear an update from you and I'm glad things are generally going well. It sounds a good plan to keep your circumstances as stable as possible for when you start to taper. 

 

I'll post an update shortly.

 

Glad you're sleeping.

Rx

[Wagen]

@Malbec37

 

Did your buzzing in head/ears resolve - Ive had in now for two months after stopping amitriptyline. It feels like very load electrical buzzing in my ears and head with intermittent tinnitus sounds in both ears. Im still taking mirtazapine and have horrible sleep problems. Could you please let me please know your experience. Thank you very much!

[Malbec37]

On 2/25/2021 at 8:30 AM, Wagen said:

 

@Malbec37

 

Did your buzzing in head/ears resolve - Ive had in now for two months after stopping amitriptyline. It feels like very load electrical buzzing in my ears and head with intermittent tinnitus sounds in both ears. Im still taking mirtazapine and have horrible sleep problems. Could you please let me please know your experience. Thank you very much!

 

 Hi Wagen 

 

yes currently the buzzing has mostly stopped although it does come back more when stressed and I’m sure it’ll come back when I start to taper again.

 

sleep problems also a big part of this unfortunately but they will get better 

[Wagen]

On 2/26/2021 at 11:54 AM, Malbec37 said:

 Hi Wagen 

 

yes currently the buzzing has mostly stopped although it does come back more when stressed and I’m sure it’ll come back when I start to taper again.

 

sleep problems also a big part of this unfortunately but they will get better 

@Malbec37 glad that it mostly stopped for you!!

 

What is the longest time that you had it and it stopped? I wonder if I should keep hoping mine will go away or try to learn to live with it. 

[Malbec37]

Hi @Ramonaand @Wagenplease could you take this conversation onto your own threads as otherwise if it goes on too long it just fills up my feed which I like to keep specific to my journey off meds. Thanks!!