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LiamSings: continued bipolar mixed episode and unable to take medication post withdrawal


LiamSings

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Hello all,

 

I took lexapro and lithium for ten years.

 

Summer  2019 I did a rapid taper off both. I figured if I didn't take the lexapro, I didn't need the lithium. I was dead wrong after being on the meds for so long.

 

I have been med free since October 2019. I tried some mod stabilizers for a few months in the summer  to see if they would help as I was really manic in the beginning, but everything made it all worse. I have suffered greatly with extreme noise sensitivity. I do feel manic and agitated and cannot be around people and noise very much. This has greatly ramped up since I have had some stressful life events lately.

 

Here is my issue. I am manic and experiencing mixed states and intense anxiety but every time I take a mood stabilizer it actually makes me more manic (paradox reactions) and makes my noise sensitivity way worse. I just don't feel I can take anything but my mental health is in shambles. How am I to survive?

 

Is there anyone else in this situation? What is one to do?

Edited by Shep
added username to title
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  • Moderator Emeritus

Welcome to SA, LiamSings.  I'm sorry you're experiencing these symptoms.  

 

What dosages of Lexapro and Lithium were you on at the start of your taper and what dosages were you on just before you quit in October?

 

We recommend tapering no faster than 10% of current dose every four weeks and tapering only one drug at a time.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

As a result of your fast taper you are suffering from withdrawal.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

At this time, reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose.  It is best to reinstate as soon as possible after withdrawal symptoms occur. We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  These drugs are strong, and when reinstating it is better to start with a small amount and increase if symptoms remain unbearable. Your system has become sensitized and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain and can cause you become unstable.   Once you've stabilized on that dosage, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.    Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

Since you are having a paradoxical reaction to the Lithium, we would recommend a very small reinstatement of Lexapro.  If this is something you're interested in, please let us know.  After you've answered my questions about your original and ending drug dosages, we can suggest a reinstatement dosage.  Please do not reinstate without allowing us to offer a suggested dosage.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.


This is your Introduction topic, where are can answer my questions, ask your own and connect with other members .  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi, Liam. 

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants from me, too. 

 

On 1/8/2020 at 11:20 PM, LiamSings said:

Here is my issue. I am manic and experiencing mixed states and intense anxiety but every time I take a mood stabilizer it actually makes me more manic (paradox reactions) and makes my noise sensitivity way worse. I just don't feel I can take anything but my mental health is in shambles. How am I to survive?

 

Are you still taking mood stabilizers? 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

  • Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

As you provide more information, we can better guide you in setting up a plan for tapering. 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Manic two years out from withdrawal and need stabilization

 

 

Hello all,

 

This is a repost of my original post with correct dates and recent concerns:

 

I took lexapro and lithium for ten years.

 

Jun 2018  I did a rapid taper off both. I figured if I didn't take the lexapro, I didn't need the lithium. I was dead wrong after being on the meds for so long.

 

I have been med free since October 2018. I tried some mod stabilizers for a few months after I quit  to see if they would help as I was really manic in the beginning, but everything made it all worse in regards to noise sensitivity and mania. I have suffered greatly with extreme noise sensitivity.

 

HERE IS MY ISSUE: I am manic and experiencing mixed states and intense anxiety but every time I take a mood stabilizer it actually makes me more manic (paradox reactions) and/or makes my noise sensitivity and nervous system stuff way worse. I just don't feel I can take anything but I really need to stabilize my mood. I recently went to the hospital because I had a terrible life event that left me sleepless for two months due to stress. My bipolar is the worst its ever been and I'm scared of some new symptoms or just of getting worse all together. Doctors  just try to give me medicine and I wish I could take it. What an easy fix that would be. I can't explain to people enough about my situation with meds and not being able to take them. My doctor finally suggested ECT but I just want to get through tonight. I know some low dose antipsychotics can actually cause a manic switch depending on how low the dose is. Does anyone have experience with being fully withdrawn and then being able to take an anti psychotic to stabilize the mood? Lithium and Depakote make me manic so I cant take those. I feel like I'm in a trap. Need to be stabilized but medications are like poison to my system. I am considering low dose geodon as I've read in a study that patients showed improvement within a few days of treatment. 

 

Is there anyone else in this situation? What is one to do?

 

I welcome any info on ECT, low dose geodon, surviving mania and mixed states post withdrawal or anything else that is helpful.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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  • Moderator Emeritus
On 5/7/2020 at 8:25 PM, Shep said:

Are you still taking mood stabilizers? 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

  • Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

As you provide more information, we can better guide you in setting up a plan for tapering. 

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to LiamSings: continued bipolar mixed episode and unable to take medication post withdrawal
  • Moderator Emeritus

We still need your drug signature please.  Without this information it is difficult for us to assist you.

 

On 5/7/2020 at 8:25 PM, Shep said:

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

  • Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

As you provide more information, we can better guide you in setting up a plan for tapering.

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Administrator

Liam, what do you mean by "manic"? What mood stabilizers have you tried, at what dosages?

 

We often see people whose nervous systems have been sensitized by withdrawal react badly to "normal" dosages of any psychotropic drug. Sensitivity to light, sound, heat, etc. indicate that your nervous system is in this sensitized state. You might even be reacting badly to caffeine.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Liam, what do you mean by "manic"? What mood stabilizers have you tried, at what dosages?

 

We often see people whose nervous systems have been sensitized by withdrawal react badly to "normal" dosages of any psychotropic drug. Sensitivity to light, sound, heat, etc. indicate that your nervous system is in this sensitized state. You might even be reacting badly to caffeine.

 

I know what the nervous system sensitivity is- I have lived with it for two years. Whats happening here is that I am actually manic and in need of medication but having reactions to them or unable to take them. I  am terrified because the more meds I try the worse I get with mania and rebound effects but I need something to quell the mania. 

 

I recently tried ability which made really manic. Zyprexa wears off in 10 hours and I feel worse off than before taking it. I hated the twice a day dosing for geodon, so that's out. I'm at a loss...

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Liam. The best way you can get help is by answering the moderators posts as thoroughly as possible. A signature is a great way to help them help you.

I'm sorry you're going through this. 

 

Since it's not that long since you actually got off the meds, and you've also tried some others later on, the bipolar symptoms can be much harder to manage than they would have been if you hadn't been on drugs in the first place. It seems like this is the case for a lot of issues we have before going on these drugs, that they tend to get a lot worse when we get on them or try to quit. The same happened with my social anxiety, to take an example. With this in mind I would (for now) try the coping methods mentioned on this site for emotional symptoms if I were you. When I developed bipolar symptoms during withdrawal that's what helped me the most. 

It seems very typical for people who have been on antidepressants to get bipolar symptoms during withdrawal, including people who didn't have bipolar symptoms before (like me for example). They lessen with time, and even if you were bipolar before I would think that it would get more manageable when you're completely recovered from the drugs since they can affect people for a very long time after quitting. I would say to try and not get stressed out by the situation and take it day by day, there is great advice on here for that as well. I know it can be extremely hard.

 

My thoughts. Hopefully someone else can give you more in depth advice. 

 

Take care. 

2011-2015: Escitalopram (Cipralex) 20 mg, Voxra 300 mg (quit Voxra in late 2015, no issues)

2016: Started tapering Escitalopram 5 mg at a time, every fourth week

July 24th, 2016: Escitalopram 5 mg

April 2nd, 2017: Quit last dosage (WD worsened a lot)

Ca 6 last months of 2017: Taking Diazepam 15-25 mg irregularly, less than once a month

Ca Dec 2017: Out of Diazepam, i.e free from all prescribed drugs

Now: Still drug free

Supplements: Irregular intake of Omega-3, magnesium, vitamin D.

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  • Administrator

Liam, what do you mean by "manic"? Please described your symptoms in more detail.

 

As Sunnyday said, we ask for information because we need it to answer your questions. Please summarize your recent 2 years of drug history in your signature  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 months later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi @LiamSings how have you been doing recently? Hope you are managing okay. Feel free to pm me if you should want help/support with writing the signature about your drug history. I remember things like that would sometimes feel overwhelming for me in this situation.

 

Take care.

2011-2015: Escitalopram (Cipralex) 20 mg, Voxra 300 mg (quit Voxra in late 2015, no issues)

2016: Started tapering Escitalopram 5 mg at a time, every fourth week

July 24th, 2016: Escitalopram 5 mg

April 2nd, 2017: Quit last dosage (WD worsened a lot)

Ca 6 last months of 2017: Taking Diazepam 15-25 mg irregularly, less than once a month

Ca Dec 2017: Out of Diazepam, i.e free from all prescribed drugs

Now: Still drug free

Supplements: Irregular intake of Omega-3, magnesium, vitamin D.

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