Bamo: Ludiomil and Losiram

[Bamo]

Mod. note:  medication ID's added

 

Maprotiline, sold under the brand name Ludiomil among others, is a tetracyclic antidepressant (TeCA) that is used in the treatment of depression.^[4] It may alternatively be classified as a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA), specifically a secondary amine.^[4] In terms of its chemistry and pharmacology, maprotiline is closely related to other secondary amine TCAs like nortriptyline and protriptyline, and has similar effects to them.^[5][4]

 

Escitalopram is reported as an ingredient of Losiram in some countries.

 

(sources wikipedia, drugs.com)

________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Hello

I am 21M , I am studying software engineering. I live in Kurdistan region in Iraq. I have been anxious and overthinking about how long will it take for me to save money and buy a house or an apartment so I can marry and be independent ( we can't be independent here until we marry ).

 

4 months ago the anxiety was too intense that I could only sleep 3 hours daily. and I told my mother to give me a pill or anything that helps me sleep. she gave me ludiomil 10mg which she took it in the past and had success with it. the first night I took 1/4 which must be 2.5 mg and it didn't help me sleep. the second night I took the remaining 3/4 which means 7.5 mg and still wasn't help full. I took 10mg for for the next 3 nights and still wasn't helpful so I stopped taking it ( only took it for 5 days).

 

then I knew something about me has changed. I had 0 libido. genital numbness. Emotional numbness. Anhedonia. lack of memory. lack of concentration. depersonalize. I am pretty sure the med caused all of them.

 

I was like that for almost 1 month. then I went to psychiatrist and he put me on losiram 10mg, I took 1/2 which means 5mg for 3 days then stopped taking it because it made me shake all my body, I searched about the side effects, at that point knew what was antidepressants and what they do to brain, so I went to the psychiatrist and told him that the med has too many side effects, he said you can't trust internet but if you think you are that smart you can get out and fix yourself on the internet. I went home and didn't take the pill I got a therapy which I can click with.

I had I don't know what happened but after I stopped the losiram I was anxious 24/7. I couldn't breath properly and thought about suicide everyday. crying 24/7. I was like that for almost 2 months. then my anxiety became better I cried less. my sleep became better and also my appetite. and wasn't crying 24/7 ( once or twice a week ).

 

since 26th of December my libido improved no more genital numbness. I've had erection especially in the morning but don't have the drive. still kissing and hugging or cuddling is pointless for me. but I still have no emotions I am not taking anything and haven't for almost 3 months. and I really don't know what to do to get my emotions back. something makes me believe that I will never get my emotions back. has anyone had any emotional numbness recovery story ? 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Bamo.

 

It sounds like you had an adverse reaction to both drugs.  An adverse reaction is like an allergic reaction, and it is a sign that your body is tell you, "I don't want these drugs."  The symptoms of an adverse reaction are similar to those of withdrawal, and the symptoms you describe are typical.  The following link lists some of the common symptoms of withdrawal/adverse reaction.  Thinking about suicide, anxiety, crying, genital numbness, emotional numbness and lack of libido are among them.  Doctors know nothing about this.  I would recommend you stay away from psychiatric rugs in the future.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF)

 

It is an excellent sign that your symptoms have improved.  Your emotions will come back, but there is nothing you can really do to speed up the process.  We can't predict how soon you will recover your emotions--everyone is different--but they will return.  The brain has a remarkable ability to heal itself, and time is the great cure.  

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.  I don't know if they are available where you live.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can asks questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

[Bamo]

thanks. is there a possibility that those damages are permanent ? has anyone recovered from emotional numbness ?

[Bamo]

today I my heart rate increased again. I am extremely scared but I don't know what I am scared of. having suicidal thoughts without reason. hopeless

I didn't have those symptoms for several weeks.

my hopeless is intense

can withdrawal be permanent especially emotional numbness, lack of memory and concentration  ?

 

today I took:

1. omega 3  (2000mg)
2. magnesium (150mg)
3. Vitamin B6 (6mg)

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Bamo said:

 

can withdrawal be permanent especially emotional numbness, lack of memory and concentration  ?

No, they are not permanent.  You will recover your feelings, memory and concentration, but we can't predict how long it will take.

 

Do you want to have your heart checked by a doctor?

 

B vitamins can be overstimulating to people in psychiatric drug withdrawal.  You might want to consider eliminating the B6.

[Altostrata]

I agree with Gridley, you'll have to be patient and let your nervous system settle down.

 

I would not add vitamin B6 right now. How did fish oil and magnesium affect you? What is your sleep pattern like now?

[Bamo]

I removed the vitamin B6.

 

So far I've taken

Omega 3:

1. 2000 mg Fish Oil
2. 600 mg EPA + DHA

Magnesium 250 mg

 

I Haven't had any bad reaction so I think my body can handle it.

 

I want to increase Magnesium to 500 mg and EPA + DHA to 3000 mg, but slowly.

 

Yesterday and tomorrow I had serious suicidal thoughts, hopelessness (which I am not sure if it is my own mind or withdrawal).

 

Since last dose I recovered from :

1. genital numbness.
2. no erection.
3. extremely high anxiety.
4. depersonalization
5. lack of energy. 

 

remaining Symptoms so far :

1. Anhedonia and emotional numbness.
2. low sex drive.
3. Suicidal thoughts.
4. weak memory.
5. lack of concetration.
6. low appetite ( almost 10 kg underweight ).
7. weak to cold.
8. hopelessness. 

I think my sleeping pattern is decent. usually I sleep at 11 pm until 8 am or 9 am. usually I won't sleep during the day but when anhedonia and hopelessness overcome . I cry until I feel dizziness and headache then I sleep for 2 hours. this usually happen around 2 to 4 pm.

 

tomorrow I am going to test my vitamins and hormones to know if there is any deficiency.

 

I have a question is there a difference between withdrawal and adverse reaction in term of recovering ?

 

is my case counted as withdrawal or adverse reaction ?

[Gridley]

8 minutes ago, Bamo said:

I have a question is there a difference between withdrawal and adverse reaction in term of recovering ?

 

Your case sounds more like an adverse reaction than withdrawal.

 

In terms of recovery, Brassmonkey, one of our moderators, wrote the following about adverse reaction recovery:

 

"This is an Adverse Reaction, acute symptoms that hit immediately and hard.  Some people’s chemical makeup just isn’t compatible with psych drugs and their body immediately tries to reject them, but in doing so throws itself into chaos.

 

The good news is that their body will sort itself out and they will return to normal.  The bad news is, it’s going to take a long time and there is nothing that will speed up the process.  There are a lot of coping strategies and tools that will help soften the experience, but time is the only thing that will cure it.  By time, we are looking at a minimum of eighteen months, but more than likely two to three years for a full recovery

.

That may sound very bleak, but it’s not going to all be pain and suffering.  These people tend to have a more linear recovery than withdrawal. The first several months will be acute.  Then things start to improve is a noticeable manner, with life starting to resume and get back on track.  All the members I have known have made full recoveries.  They then go on to graduate college, attend med school, and start successful careers in a variety of fields."

[Bamo]

Wow, I got some of my hope back. thank you so much @Gridley.

 

sorry I forgot to ask this question in previous reply

 

is there any member that had success with L-Tyrosine ? is it worth trying or just be patient with the Magnesium and Omega 3.

 

another question is how long does it take for an average person to be dependent on the meds ? I mean can one month of taking or 2 months cause withdrawal after they try to lower the dose or get off them? 

 

[Gridley]

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Bamo said:

 L-Tyrosine

 

I'd stay away.  The following is from an earlier post on SA:

 

"While this amino acid influences cognitive abilities, it still acts as a stimulant to your central nervous system. The ingestion of L-tyrosine can increase impulses in your nerve center of your body. Increased feelings of fear and panic may occur with use of this product on a regular basis."

 

[Bamo]

1 minute ago, Gridley said:

 

 

 

 

I'd stay away.  The following is from an earlier post on SA:

 

"While this amino acid influences cognitive abilities, it still acts as a stimulant to your central nervous system. The ingestion of L-tyrosine can increase impulses in your nerve center of your body. Increased feelings of fear and panic may occur with use of this product on a regular basis."

 

 

I am gonna stay away then.

 

for now I stick with Magnesium and Omega 3. I keep the topic updated after I increase the dose ( I increase it each week ).

 

thank you again.

[Bamo]

me tests came out :

• Vitamin D3 : 64.58 ng/ml ( not sure low or normal )
• Vitamin B12 : 174.4 pg/ml ( Low )
• Free Testosterone : 0.901 nmol/l (Low)
• SHBG : 24.81 nmol/l (Normal)
• Total Testosterone : 22.36 nmol/l (Normal)

 

I went to a doctor and he gave me sustanon 250mg 1M injection every 3 week 

the total injections is 3 times + 3 week each = 9 weeks

 

I know you are not medical professional but based on your experience giving me some advice would be really appreciated because my general knowledge is really limited and don't want to break my system even more

 

should I use the injection ? 

should I take vitamin B12 supplement ?

[Gridley]

@Bamo

 

Testosterone is a powerful drug that affects mind and body.  Altostrata, founder of this site, wrote the following about testosterone:

 

"In general, I would be careful with any steroid therapy during withdrawal (or any other time). Bumping up one hormone tends to imbalance everything else, because the body depends on self-regulation."

 

Regarding B12, when we are in withdrawal/adverse reaction from psychiatric drugs, our systems can be very sensitive to supplements and even foods that "undrugged" people can tolerate.  B vitamins tend to be overstimulating to people in withdrawal.

 

[Ogres]

On 1/14/2020 at 2:31 PM, Bamo said:

me tests came out :

• Vitamin D3 : 64.58 ng/ml ( not sure low or normal )
• Vitamin B12 : 174.4 pg/ml ( Low )
• Free Testosterone : 0.901 nmol/l (Low)
• SHBG : 24.81 nmol/l (Normal)
• Total Testosterone : 22.36 nmol/l (Normal)

 

I went to a doctor and he gave me sustanon 250mg 1M injection every 3 week 

the total injections is 3 times + 3 week each = 9 weeks

 

I know you are not medical professional but based on your experience giving me some advice would be really appreciated because my general knowledge is really limited and don't want to break my system even more

 

should I use the injection ? 

should I take vitamin B12 supplement ?

Hi, doesn't look like your free Testosterone is low. The range is something like 0.31-1.04 nmol/L 

[Bamo]

8 hours ago, Ogres said:

Hi, doesn't look like your free Testosterone is low. The range is something like 0.31-1.04 nmol/L 

 

saw 2 urologists they said it is low and I need injection. saw a doctor and he said it is fine I don't need anything. it is confusing.

 

I am now taking :

• Vitamin B1 (231 mg)
• Vitamin B2 (35 μg)
• Vitamin B6 (94 mg)
• Vitamin B12 (72 mg)
• Vitamin C (1333 mg)
• Vitamin E (222 mg)
• Omega 3 ( 3000mg mg Fish Oil + 1800 mg EPA + DHA )
• Magnesium 250 mg

my doctor proscribed Vitamin B. and I am not sensitive for these numbers so I am not gonna raise the amount until next blood work in the next  month.

 

now I accepted the anhedonia for now and recently took an English class to distract myself until I get my emotions back.

 

while I have low sex drive (PSSD) I am having wet dreams I don't know how is that possible when I am awake nothing about sex arouses me but in my dream I am normal, I have had 2 wet dreams for last 15 days.

and I recovered from suicidal thoughts but small things can trigger it again. especially when I go through a big argument it is like I am in the first day of adverse reaction again.

 

and can antidepressants possibly cause low Testosterone and Vitamins ?

 

if I don't do the injection will it raise back to normal on itself ? will something serious happen if I leave it like that for now ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Ogres]

Looking at you results I don’t see that you’re deficient in testo. If you’re having issues, then they are rather psychological. And given that you’re relatively young, there is so much you can achieve by simply following a healthy lifestyle: good diet with enough nutrients and vitamins, sleep hygiene, exercise, being outside. Stay away from pills and more so from hormones as you can seriously disrupt your system. Even taking vitamin supplements in my view is not ideal as healthy diet is a much better option.  

[Bamo]

today everything got worse. I really don't know if I am depressed or it is withdrawal/adverse reaction.

exteremely hopeless and suicidal, life seems pointless for me again.

breaking down a lot. I slept to avoid the condition but woke up because of nightmate  with a great fear.

I am terrified.

I looked at the (Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms) and there is psychiatric symptoms does it mean I am depressed or just a wave ?

[Bamo]

Today everything got even worse,

cried morning until evening, my family was there to help me otherwise I would suicide. I am extremely scared and don't know why.

is that normal for adverse reaction ?

[Gridley]

10 minutes ago, Bamo said:

otherwise I would suicide

I am sorry you're feeling so bad.  If you are suicidal, I urge you to get in-person help.  Please read what mammaP, one of our moderators, wrote:

 

   On 12/23/2014 at 8:10 AM,  mammaP said: 

 

Sadly, many of us have felt that we simply cannot carry on. Most of us here have been in that situation, some as a side effect of medication and others from withdrawal. It is a feeling that is all consuming and taunts us day and night. We are all deeply saddened to see a fellow member feeling so low and being powerless to help. We are not professionals and not equipped to offer the support and guidance that is needed, but are here to offer understanding and empathy.  

 

What you are feeling is real, it is devastating and it hurts, but it will get better.  In the meantime it is important that you talk to someone. Talking about your feelings will help you to deal with them. There are many agencies that have helplines dedicated to helping people who are suicidal and I am going to post links to some organisations that can offer the support that we can't.  

 

Talking helps us to put things into perspective and release some of the tension, especially when no-one seems to understand or believe what we are going through. If you are religious then maybe someone at your church will understand and listen without judgement. 

 

I have found helplines extremely helpful in the past, sometimes talking to a stranger who doesn't know you is easier. They  have no preconceptions and do not judge you, simply listen as you pour out your heart.

 

 If the feelings are overwhelming then call the emergency room, or accident and emergency department of your local hospital. 

 

We at SA care about you very much and want to see you get better, it is devastating for all of us when someone cannot take any more and wish we could do more but we are limited in what we can offer.

 

Please tell us how you are feeling, but  please understand how it is for us when someone says they are going to end their life and not come back. We do not want to lose you, we want you to get better. 

  

14 minutes ago, Bamo said:

I am extremely scared and don't know why.

is that normal for adverse reaction ?

 

Feeling anxiety and fear and not knowing why is normal for an adverse reaction.  Brassmonkey, another of our moderators wrote the following about adverse reaction:

 

"The first several months will be acute.  Then things start to improve is a noticeable manner, with life starting to resume and get back on track.  All the members I have known have made full recoveries.  They then go on to graduate college, attend med school, and start successful careers in a variety of fields."

 

I don't know if you're still considering testosterone injections, but I would advise against it.  Hormones can have a negative effect on those of us whose central nervous systems have been destabilized.

 

 

 

 

[Bamo]

@Gridley thanks a lot, thankfully I have my family, they helped me and now the fear and suicidal thoughts went away. 

I can't imagine how could it go without them, the people here that are going through this are real hero.

 

and for the Testosterone. the urologist lied to just sell his meds, my overall Testosterone and Free Testosterone is fine and I don't need the injection.

I have vitamin B12 deficiency but it is not that much.

[Gridley]

Just now, Bamo said:

fear and suicidal thoughts went away. 

That's great news, Bamo.  Thanks for letting us know.