Jingyd40: just started withdrawing from mirtazapine

[Jingyd40]

Just wanted to say hi. I am new here and hoping to post on the tapering forum for some advice coming off meds. I’m not sure when I can use that forum after joining, does anyone know?

 

Thank you 

Ju

[Jingyd40]

Hi, I am new, from the UK.

 

I tried tapering from mirtazapine 15mg in 2017, but it ended in an anxiety breakdown by 2018 even though I withdrew slowly. I had a year of horrific anxiety in 2018. I now feel a bit stronger after that awful year. I still have anxiety but no longer the 12 hour panic attacks I endured every day in 2018. 

 

That terrible year triggered severe fatigue and I was diagnosed with CFS and depression as that year was traumatic.  I have hardly been out these last 2 years as I am recovering from the adrenal fatigue I guess it is and severe anxiety. My anxiety is now a moderate general anxiety and maybe a panic attack a month. Huge improvement. What that year did to my body was awful. 

 

I wanted to try and taper off mirtazapine again after an unsuccesful try 2  years ago but I want off this drug as its been  almost 7 years. I started on 7.5mg in May 2013 and into 15mg December 2013 due to anxiety, insomnia and weight loss.
 I know people may say but look how bad your anxiety went when you slowly tappered and yes that is true it got worse but i think that was purely withdrawal not that it was my underlying anxiety state coming through again.  Because honestly my anxiety was never as bad as it has been these 2 years after i tried to withdraw and now i have depression too so i want off as it isn't helping either condition.

 

I was on 15mg, I got down to 11.5 when the anxiety hit hard with severe panic attacks that led to 12 months of horrendous anxiety and panic. That was all of 2018. I am now in a bit of a better place but my anxiety has never gone down to where it was prior to withdrawal, but I no longer have 12 hour panic attacks every single day like i had in 2018.  Now it is more like general anxiety every day. 

 

Anyway, I want to try again even slower. I was withdrawing by 0.5mg every 2-3 weeks so i plan to go slower. Any advice on how and what I should do? I file tablets and that works fine, I don’t want liquid or a syringe as my Gp doesn’t prescribe that anyway. I went back up to 13.7 by mid 2018 to see if it helped from the 11.5 I got down to, doing 0.25mg increases during 2018 as my Gp advised I went back to 15mg ASAP to stop the panic attacks but I refused. She wanted me to take 15mg right away but I did it slowly. I got back up to 13.7 then felt a bit better so I have stayed on that dose since mid 2018. 

 

I am just after any advice, my Gp would rather I got to 15mg Or higher and stayed there but no I want off this drug. It’s doing nothing anymore and now my anxiety is worse than when I even started it and now I have depression at times too which I’ve never had. I blame this awful drug. When I first started mirt strange thoughts sometimes intrusive which started as soon as I went up to 15mg, my go said it couldn’t be the drug. I’d fear everything. Scared I’d hurt myself or my family, or what if I got ill  and died. I began fearing death, panicking about losing my Gran, husband etc.. Living in dread daily of people dying and losing them. Things I never thought of before. The thoughts about what if I hurt myself or my kids went away and my GP assured me they were due to high anxiety which was rubbish as I’d never had them till on this drug, it was horrendous and scary. I am never violent or anything but those thoughts terrified me. Now I just daily feel constant anxiety physically, very bad fatigue that I struggle to walk around or function at home, agoraphobia, severe social anxiety..: things I never had before mirt. Before mirt I had anxiety and agoraphobia but never as bad as this. I felt it worked at first but after a year these symptoms consumed me. I was told I had CfS and depression: then I was told it was my thyroid. I blame this awful drug and I want off it. 
 

I started taking it in 2013 after a very difficult year the year before. My grandmother passed away and three months later my brother attacked me and as a result of me refusing to forgive his violent actions yet again, my mother and sisters cut me out of the family. I suffered extreme anxiety, trauma, panic attacks and I couldn’t leave my home for a very long time. Mirt was a lifesaver at the time but since taking it I have developed intrusive thoughts, chronic fatigue, thyroid issues, and now depression. I want off it even if it’s slow. 

 

I am  very scared of triggering a breakdown again. Any advice on slow withdrawal is much appreciated.

 

Thank you

Julie 

Edited January 11, 2020 by manymoretodays
reduced font size to 14, for ease of reading

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Jingyd40.

 

Please use the information in the following link to post an Introduction about yourself.  Post it here in the Introductions and Updates forum, and ask your taper questions in that same introduction post.  Don't use the tapering forum, which is for more general posts.

 

Here is right where you're supposed to be to ask tapering questions.

Please start a topic about yourself in this forum

[Jingyd40]

Thank you so much.

 

i just started a mirtazapine with drawl post in this forum so hopefully it’ll be approved soon, it’s under moderation at present.

 

Thanks for the help.

Julie

[Gridley]

1 minute ago, Jingyd40 said:

tarted a mirtazapine with drawl post in this forum

 

I just saw it--thanks.  

Edited January 11, 2020 by Gridley

[Jingyd40]

1 minute ago, manymoretodays said:

Welcome Jingyd40, @Jingyd40

 

Glad you have joined us to get further tapering advice and then support around that, and potential WD(withdrawal) symptoms.  I've consolidated your posts and decreased the font size on the longest one, for ease of reading.

 

I'm going to give you some of the general information below.

 

We recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Tips for tapering off Remeron(mirtazapine)

 

 

 

Brain Remodelling

What is withdrawal syndrome.

The windows and waves pattern of withdrawal

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.   Read through these links, at least the first couple of posts in them, to see if what you have started makes sense so far.  We've got a lot of information around here.  I hope you like reading.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

 

Thank you so much, brilliant advice and I shall check out the info you’ve provided. 
 

I amhoping to go 0.25mg decreases every 4-6 weeks. Very slow. I am worried a 10% like last time would be far too much. I was doing 0.5mg every month. 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Jingyd40.  You have come to the right place.  We're happy to help you taper Mirtazapine.

 

You have been at 13.7mg since mid-2018, if I'm reading correctly.  Are you feeling stable?  By stable, I mean have generally the same symptoms day to day without big changes.  It doesn't mean you are symptom-free but that your symptoms are tolerable, a steady-state of feeling not great but tolerable.

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  This is better than tapering by a set amount (like 0.5mg) because when you get to the lower doses this will be too fast, whereas a percentage taper will always keep you within safe parameters.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

There are two other slower tapers that we recommend.  I'm including them so you can decide which taper you're most comfortable with.

 

A micro-taper is the gentlest way to come off these drugs. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

The Brassmonkey Slide is a way of making micro-taper reductions weekly, as opposed to a larger reduction once a month. 

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

You will need a scale to measure your cuts consistently and accurately.  Many members use the AWS Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon in the U.K.

The GEMINI-20 Scale

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

This link is specifically about tapering Mirtazapine.

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.

 

 

[Gridley]

5 minutes ago, Jingyd40 said:

 

I amhoping to go 0.25mg decreases every 4-6 weeks. Very slow. I am worried a 10% like last time would be far too much. I was doing 0.5mg every month. 

 

That would be fine.  

[Jingyd40]

8 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Welcome to SA, Jingyd40.  You have come to the right place.  We're happy to help you taper Mirtazapine.

 

You have been at 13.7mg since mid-2018, if I'm reading correctly.  Are you feeling stable?  By stable, I mean have generally the same symptoms day to day without big changes.  It doesn't mean you are symptom-free but that your symptoms are tolerable, a steady-state of feeling not great but tolerable.

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  This is better than tapering by a set amount (like 0.5mg) because when you get to the lower doses this will be too fast, whereas a percentage taper will always keep you within safe parameters.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

There are two other slower tapers that we recommend.  I'm including them so you can decide which taper you're most comfortable with.

 

A micro-taper is the gentlest way to come off these drugs. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

The Brassmonkey Slide is a way of making micro-taper reductions weekly, as opposed to a larger reduction once a month. 

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

You will need a scale to measure your cuts consistently and accurately.  Many members use the AWS Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon in the U.K.

The GEMINI-20 Scale

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

This link is specifically about tapering Mirtazapine.

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.

 

 

Hi Gridley

 

well ever since i tried to withdraw in 2017 my anxiety has never been good. It’s been worse ever since despite going back up to 13.75mg. I am better than I was in 2018 when the withdrawal hit badly and I had severe anxiety. I’ve not made any reductions since summer 2017. I’ve stayed at the 13.75. I still have anxiety which is worse than before I tried to withdraw but it’s nowhere as bad as the reaction I had to the withdrawal in 2018. I just really want of this drug. I’m worried 7 years is too long and I won’t be able to.

 

Can I do smaller tapers? Last time I was doing 0.5mg tapers From the 15mg every 4 weeks, which Màybe was too much? I’m worried about even doing 5% incase that’s too fast and triggered severe anxiety again? I’d rather do a % reduction too. What would you recommend as I don’t want to end up like that again. I’ve heard such horror stories.

[Jingyd40]

9 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

That would be fine.  

So I can do 0.25mg reductions or do I need to stick to a particular % drop? I did 0.5mg last time but then did 0.25mg once under 12 as I felt a bit symptomatic. Once down to 11.5 it all hit me and I was so poorly with panic and anxiety for a year. I’m now afraid doing 0.25mg drops will be too much. I’m confused how to dk this gently so I’d appreciate any advice for someone like me who suffered such a bad withdrawal after such tiny reductions 2 years ago. I am terrified of being rush unwell again.

 

Thank you.

[manymoretodays]

21 minutes ago, Jingyd40 said:

Hi Gridley can the first message be taken off so that just my post about withdrawal shows here incase people miss it?

 

Hi Jingy,  I'm just going to leave it so I don't lose your whole introduction topic now.  I've hidden my welcome as well, as Gridley's has most of the same.  You've got it quoted.

I also decreased the font size in your more lengthy introduction post.

 

Best,

mmt

[manymoretodays]

6 minutes ago, Jingyd40 said:

So I can do 0.25mg reductions or do I need to stick to a particular % drop? I did 0.5mg last time but then did 0.25mg once under 12 as I felt a bit symptomatic. Once down to 11.5 it all hit me and I was so poorly with panic and anxiety for a year. I’m now afraid doing 0.25mg drops will be too much. I’m confused how to dk this gently so I’d appreciate any advice for someone like me who suffered such a bad withdrawal after such tiny reductions 2 years ago. I am terrified of being rush unwell again.

 

You could calculate a percentage drop less than 10%.  Could you HOLD for now.  Read through some of the links to increase your understanding too.  And then we'll be happy to answer questions at that point.  Does that sound good?

 

In addition, Please put your withdrawal history in your signature to help the moderators. This can be quite helpful to us.  Just go to that link and follow the instructions there.  Thankyou.

Edited January 11, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Jingyd40]

Hi,

yes I’m willing to hold for now. I’m just afraid to drop from the 13.7 I’m currently on by 5% as last time just coming down by 0.25mg every 4 weeks made me suffer severe anxiety. Which I guess was a similar percentage. I got down from the 15mg to 11.5mg in 5 months but then things hit me.

 

Would a 2% taper every 4 weeks as long as not suffering severe symptoms be ok? I really do want to go slower than last time to reduce any risks of severe symptoms again. 

 

I’m just trying to figure out what % may be best before I start anything. I’ve read over the info sent in this post, thank you both. I remember a lot of it from last time but it’s great to refresh. I take supplements, most that’s recommended so that’s good. 
 

Thank you.

Julie

[Gridley]

9 minutes ago, Jingyd40 said:

So I can do 0.25mg reductions or do I need to stick to a particular % drop?

It would be better to do a % drop.  That way the drops are smaller and smaller as you go lower, which is what you want as you get to the lower doses.

 

MMT suggested a hold.  How do you feel about that?  I believe you've been holding since mid-2018.

[Jingyd40]

Just now, Gridley said:

It would be better to do a % drop.  That way the drops are smaller and smaller as you go lower, which is what you want as you get to the lower doses.

 

MMT suggested a hold.  How do you feel about that?  I believe you've been holding since mid-2018.

I am thinking a 2% taper would be a good option and I just suggested to MMT above. Ideally I want to get started now as I’ve been on hold since august 2017. I waited till I felt stable after the horrific 2018 I had due to withdrawal. I was going slow in that taper over 5 months but maybe I need even slower and yes a % rather than a mg taper. 

[Gridley]

5 minutes ago, Jingyd40 said:

 

Would a 2% taper every 4 weeks as long as not suffering severe symptoms be ok?

That would be fine.    you might want to order the scale and some gelatin capsules.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Gridley

[Jingyd40]

Just now, Gridley said:

That would be fine.  Or you could even try 1% to start.  We've had members tapering at that rate.  In the meantime you might want to order the scale and some gelatin capsules.

Thank you. And would that be ok to hold that dose for a month before another 2% reduction? I want to hold each one for a while before another drop.  Maybe 1% is a good idea too.

 

I have scales as I currently have to file my tablet down to 13.75mg haha. I don’t use liquid as I can’t get hold of it and I’m happy to taper with the tablets and scales. 

[Gridley]

Just now, Jingyd40 said:

I’m happy to taper with the tablets and scales. 

That's fine.  It's what I do.

 

1 minute ago, Jingyd40 said:

And would that be ok to hold that dose for a month before another 2% reduction

 

Yes, that's the way you do it.  Make the cut and then hold for four week or a month.  Then see how you're feeling.  If okay, make another 2% or 1% cut.

[Jingyd40]

Thank you Gridley,

 

I just worked out doing 1% would only get me down to 12mg in a year from the 13.7. Wow it would take years haha. 

[Jingyd40]

I started withdrawing on Saturday. I was so nervous Incase that horrendous anxiety and panic attacks come back like they did last time I was reducing. My Gp said it wasn’t to do with withdrawal as dropping 0.25mg every 3-4 weeks wouldn’t cause any symptoms but it did for me. I’ve gone down by 1.5% this time, from 13.7 to 13.5 so a similar drop to last time I tried in 2017 but we shall see how it goes. It’s just so upsetting it may take me years to get off this at this rate of dropping.

 

Thank you for all your help.

Ju

[Gridley]

16 minutes ago, Jingyd40 said:

My Gp said it wasn’t to do with withdrawal as dropping 0.25mg every 3-4 weeks wouldn’t cause any symptoms but it did for me.

Jingy, I think I've said it before but it bears repeating: doctors know nothing about withdrawal and don't even believe it exists.

 

Yes, it's hard to wrap your mind around how long it takes.  It helps to think of the fact that you're reducing your drug burden and not how long it will take.  The day will come when you're drug-free.  

[Jingyd40]

Thank you Gridley. At least I’m doing something about it.

 

I swear this drug has caused the chronic fatigue syndrome, undeecative thyroid, burning red feet every night, higher anxiety than usual, random panic attacks, depression, intrusive thoughts, social anxiety and agoraphobia. I never had any of this before I went on it other than anxiety and insomnia which it did help with initially but within a few months some of those symptoms say attend, intrusive thoughts mainly but then over the last 3 years all of the others kicked in badly. I wasn’t even this bad before taking it but of course my GP said no it won’t cause thoughts of what if you harm people or yourself and scary images, or odd phobias suddenly that I never had before. I was also told 3 years on it, it couldn’t suddenly cause crippling fatigue and needing to rest most of the day or the feet symptoms etc: I feel I’ve been lied to. All my issues hit within 3 years on this drug. I never had any health issues before being on it other than anxiety and some trauma after the tough time I had late 2012, and insomnia. Now I’m housebound and too fatigued to be a proper housewife and mum like I used to be. I want off this drug but I agree at least I’m working on it even if it takes me some time.

 

Thank you.

Ju