Deblou46: withdrawal

[sunnysideup69]

Hi @Deblou46, yes, I can relate. I was doing pretty well after a switch from Citalopram to Venlafaxine. The lockdown and high fatalities in UK definitely caused a big wobble for me. How is your mood generally?

 I see you also switched. Am in a similar situation as in, waiting for stabilisation before tapering.

[Deblou46]

Hi

 

feeling a little desperate.  my story is above but am 8 months now from swapping from 18 years of citalapram to sertraline 100mg.  My doctor put me up to 125mg as I was really struggling, but I not making a difference, I know Sertraline will not take away the citalopram withdrawals, but I feel terrible again.

 

Bugs crawling in Head feeling is back with a vengeance.

Tongue and throat tension.

 

does this ever go? I thought Sertraline would take away a bit of it.

 

I intend to come of sertraline (although petrified to) I cannot stay on these tablets.

 

I just need some encouragement 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[Sonia009]

Hi Deblou

I have been on a reduced dose of Citalopram for 11 months from 10mg to 5mg and am still getting many withdrawal symptoms, tinnitus being one of them. I was on them for 10 years. This is not nearly as high a dose as you were on so I can understand how you are still getting withdrawal symptoms from 40mg 8 months later. Your symptoms are probably a combination of citalopram withdrawal and start up effects of setraline, this seems to be a problem for others too, not knowing what is causing what. I can't offer advice on what your next step should be, that is for the experienced people here to advise but I understand your pain and although it seems there is no end to it, you have to believe, like me, that each day is a step nearer to recovery. I commend you for holding down a job through all of this, I couldn't have done that so hats off to you. The covid19 issue has definitely played a part in how we feel both emotionally and physically, it has definitely made my anxiety worse at times. I look around my family and neighbours and I can see how everyones health has been affected in one way or another. All this lockdown time has given us time to overthink matters when it comes to our health which is not good. I hope you find the answers you are looking for to end this nightmare for you. Best wishes.

[Deblou46]

Thanks Sonia I feel awful and it is really upsetting me.......

[ChessieCat]

Hi Deblou,

 

Please create your drug signature.  This allows us to see your drug history at a glance.

 

Please include any other drugs you have previously or are currently taking.  Instructions for what is needed:  please-summarize-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature

 

This link goes to your signature.  Remember to Save after creating/editing it.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Thank you.

[Dejavu]

Hi @Deblou46.

My heart goes out to you. I was where you are a year ago. I tapered 50mg of sertraline in one month (which is more of a cold turkey than an actual taper). Felt great for a month, then crashed...hard. I reinstated and held on for dear life until I stabilized. It took 10 months. Then I held another two because it felt so good to be well again. By the time I started my taper, I was 99% symptom-free. I'm now down to 20.1mg. There were no words for the mess I was. You can read my intro thread to get a feel for just how bad I was hurting. There were many times I wasn't sure I was going to make it. But I did, and I got better. You will too.

 

You've been at this for 8 long months. You're raising your kids and you're working, and you're pretty doggone tired. I so get it. But if you can just hang on a bit longer, I think you'll see things start to turn around sooner rather than later. Your poor brain is doing everything it needs to in order to return to factory settings. It's been abused and plunged into chaos, courtesy of your doctor, who, in my humble opinion, knows even less about these psych drugs than a first year law student. But the good news is that our brains know how to fix themselves. We are born with everything we need to recover from brain trauma. The term is "neuroplasticity."  If you search this site, you will find information on it. You're going to be all right. I wish I could tell you exactly when. We would all like the answer to that question. 

 

When someone is in the kind of shape you're in (frightened, traumatized, unsure), sometimes they need reassurance pretty often. I know I did. There's something magical about hearing someone tell you "It's going to be okay," that will keep you going when you don't think you can. Hearing something over and over helps you internalize it. That's why Buddhists chant. That's why Catholics pray their rosaries. That's why some people live by mantras, adages, and mottos. People learn by repetition. I understand that, and want to invite you to reach out to me when you need reassurance and connection during this time. Eventually, you will be able to self-soothe, but at this point in your journey, you might not always be able to do that. So shoot up a flare if you need some support. I'm happy to answer any questions for you that I can. 

 

Hang in there! It will be your turn soon!

[Deblou46]

@manymoretodays @Gridley would this be normal I am really anxious

@ChessieCat I did this months ago but it is not showing

 

Citalopram 18 years Between 10mg to 40mg 

Tried tapering off 2012 20 mg WD 6 weeks later reinstated

August 2019 tapered down in 2.5 months instructed by psych 40-30mg in one month then 30mg -20mg  October 2019 cross tapered to sertraline one week 25mg sertraline 20mg citalopram then 25mg sertraline  10mg Citalopram 
Nov 2019 start sertraline 50mg 

23rd November start 100mg Sertraline 

[Deblou46]

Thank you so much @Dejavu I thought sertraline would at least help with WD but this is not the case.

 

 

 

 

 

Citalopram 18 years Between 10mg to 40mg 

Tried tapering off 2012 20 mg WD 6 weeks later reinstated

August 2019 tapered down in 2.5 months instructed by psych 40-30mg in one month then 30mg -20mg  October 2019 cross tapered to sertraline one week 25mg sertraline 20mg citalopram then 25mg sertraline  10mg Citalopram 
Nov 2019 start sertraline 50mg 

23rd November start 100mg Sertraline 

2nd July upped to 125mg Sertaline

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Deblou46 said:

I did this months ago but it is not showing

 

Your drug signature is showing now.  When we first join we are ask to provide a history.  That information is only visible to staff.  The signature is different.

 

Thank you for creating it.

[Frogie]

Hi:

 

I just thought I’d drop by and see how you are doing?

 

Hopefully things will settle down soon.

 

Hang in there! 
 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Deblou46]

sorry to post again but I feel horrific this wave is horrible and I am scared....8 months now since swapping , I know sertraline wil not take away cit withdrawals but this is horrid.

 

I just want off these evil tablets but cant until settled on sertraline, I did not know anything about withdrawals when i was swapped.

 

 

Citalopram 18 years Between 10mg to 40mg 

Tried tapering off 2012 20 mg WD 6 weeks later reinstated

August 2019 tapered down in 2.5 months instructed by psych 40-30mg in one month then 30mg -20mg  October 2019 cross tapered to sertraline one week 25mg sertraline 20mg citalopram then 25mg sertraline  10mg Citalopram 
Nov 2019 start sertraline 50mg 

23rd November start 100mg Sertraline 

2nd July upped to 125mg Sertaline

[Altostrata]

3 minutes ago, Deblou46 said:

2nd July upped to 125mg Sertaline

 

This occurred this July 2? Have your symptoms gotten worse since then?

[Deblou46]

I was fine for 3 weeks and it has got worse past few days 

 

I think it is WD from citolapram just wanted a bit reassurance.

[Altostrata]

How have your symptoms changed since July 2?

[Deblou46]

I was feeling much better and last few days withdrawals Back

 

tingling in head and face 

sever anxiety 

[Erell]

Why did you updose to 125mg on July 2 ?

[Deblou46]

my doctor told me too I was in an anxious mess due to virus

 

i mean can an updose trigger withdrawals?  I intend to taper off sertaline when I am levelled

[Deblou46]

@Altostrata @ChessieCat @Gridley would this be the case?

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature so that it remains current:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Updosing doesn't cause withdrawals.  Updosing too much can cause an adverse reaction.  This can be because experiencing withdrawal symptoms can cause your nervous system to become sensitised.

 

When increasing your dose, either an updose or a reinstatement, SA recommends starting with a small dose and increasing slowly by small increments.

 

Please read Post #1 of this topic.  Much of the information is applicable to updosing as well as reinstatement.

 

about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms

 

Please do not suddenly reduce your dose.  If you updosed to 125mg sertraline on 2nd July then you have been on the higher dose for just over 2 weeks and your brain will have already made some adjustments.  If you return to 100mg it might make things worse.

 

If you would like the mods to assess whether you are taking too much, please provide 3 consecutive days of daily symptom notes.

 

Please read this post which explains what is needed and provides an example:

 

[Deblou46]

@ChessieCat

i will write down my diary I was having these wd symptoms and my doc said to up to 150 but I didn’t I will not up anymore after I upped I felt great for 3 weeks !!!! 
Does make sense that updosing  can sensitise the nervous system ...

 

do I have to wait until withdrawals completely gone before I taper sertraline ? I want off these drugs x

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Deblou46 said:

Does make sense that updosing  can sensitise the nervous system ...

 

Increasing the dose isn't what sensitises the nervous system.  It is when the drug is reduced too quickly and you experience withdrawal symptoms that your nervous system becomes sensitised.  After your nervous system has become sensitised taking too much of the drug cause an adverse reaction.

 

When the nervous system is sensitised we also need to be careful when trying anything new.  It is best to start with a low dose, make only one change/try something new one at a time to see how we react.

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

5 hours ago, Deblou46 said:

do I have to wait until withdrawals completely gone before I taper sertraline ? I want off these drugs x

 

It is best to wait until you stabilise.  We call in WDnormal.  Check out this topic

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

We understand that it can be frustrating being on the drug but it is important to be patient.  If you try to reduce too soon or by too much it can make things worse.  The brain likes consistency.  It is better to wait for longer than to risk reducing too soon.

 

The idea is to get off the drug with a little discomfort as possible.  Not to get off quickly.  It has nothing to do with how strong we are as a person.  The brain gets used to getting the drug and we need to take it away gradually which allows the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug as we taper.

 

This might help you to understand, especially the part in blue font:

  

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

 

This is something I posted somewhere else and then saved. I know it's all stuff I've said before, but it bears repeating and further discussion. A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

 

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning. What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain. So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along).

 

It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

 

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected.

 

 

 

 

 

[Deblou46]

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Increasing the dose isn't what sensitises the nervous system.  It is when the drug is reduced too quickly and you experience withdrawal symptoms that your nervous system becomes sensitised.  After your nervous system has become sensitised taking too much of the drug cause an adverse reaction.

 

When the nervous system is sensitised we also need to be careful when trying anything new.  It is best to start with a low dose, make only one change/try something new one at a time to see how we react.

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

I am so sorry to sound a bit stupid, but what does this mean? i reduced citalopram  very very quickly 18 years worth in 2.5 months. So moving up to 125 would not make any difference to withdrawals? I will stay at this dose and just stablise before I do anything.

and that Sertraline will not take away citalopram withdrawls.  Sorry to confirm again

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Deblou46 said:

what does this mean?

 

You stated:

 

On 7/19/2020 at 6:11 AM, Deblou46 said:

Does make sense that updosing  can sensitise the nervous system ...

 

I explained that updosing isn't what sensitises the nervous system.  It is the withdrawal symptoms which cause sensitivity.

 

22 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

It is when the drug is reduced too quickly and you experience withdrawal symptoms that your nervous system becomes sensitised. 

 

In answer to your question:

 

8 hours ago, Deblou46 said:

and that Sertraline will not take away citalopram withdrawls.

 

When you do a cross taper to a different antidepressant you may still get withdrawal symptoms from the first drug because different ADs work in different ways.  You can also experience start up/side effects from the new drug.  You have also made dose changes.  When several changes are made over a short period of time, like you have done, it is difficult to know what is causing what.

 

We strongly encourage members to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope during the difficult times.  This can help you to remain as calm as possible which helps to reduce stress and allows the brain to do what it needs to do.  It is also recommended to learn Acceptance.   

 

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature whenever you make a change.  That way we can see your history at a glance.  Thanks. 

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Deblou46]

@ChessieCat thank you so much I will just have to wait it out until I stabelise 

[Deblou46]

Hi @ChessieCat@Dejavu

 

I am suffering again and cannot see this ever ending, I know people are different, but I have been told the average is 18-24 months for withdrawal to get better? I do not want to up my sertraline as I want to taper down when levelled, but I just don't want to keep living like this, I am not as bad as I was at the beginning of the year.

 

Thanks for your help

 

 

Citalopram 18 years Between 10mg to 40mg 

Tried tapering off 2012 20 mg WD 6 weeks later reinstated

August 2019 tapered down in 2.5 months instructed by psych 40-30mg in one month then 30mg -20mg  October 2019 cross tapered to sertraline one week 25mg sertraline 20mg citalopram then 25mg sertraline  10mg Citalopram 
Nov 2019 start sertraline 50mg 

23rd November start 100mg Sertraline 

2nd July upped to 125mg Sertaline

[Deblou46]

can you also tell me where I can find success stories on people that have swapped AD's?

[Deblou46]

hi all

 

I am now 15 months in to swapping from citolopram to Sertraline and i started intense therapy last week and since then every single symptom I had in withdrawal as come back and I am really scared.

 

I really thought I would feel better by now and this is not the case.

 

Can anyone help I heard the average WD is around 24 months

 

Thanks

[Jennings]

Did you feel better for a while?  When I’m in a wave I feel like I’ve always been in one and it will never end.  

[Sonia009]

Hi Deblou

I visited your thread in July of last year and I just want you to know that you are not alone, I too am still experiencing withdrawal symptoms. It's been around 18 months since I reduced to 5mg but am now on 5.2 mg. I think part of my problem has been inaccurate cutting and weighing my tablet and slightly decreasing and increasing my dose. I find my symptoms change i.e., the extreme tiredness and night sweats have gone so too have the nightmares. I still experience some dizziness, headaches and general aches and pains, weird feelings/sensations, weird dreams and tinnitus. Some people recover quicker than others, wish I knew why, seems that you and I are two of the less fortunate ones. I wonder if your dose has been accurate or have you been cutting your tablet? Maybe there is a discrepancy in your dose? Why not tag in one of the moderators and ask for their advice. After reading many posts on this site, it's not unusual for withdrawal to last this long. We just have to give it some more time whilst trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle.😊

[Deblou46]

Thanks Sonia I don’t know who the moderators are ? I actually switched 16 months ago and cannot do anything until stable but thought I would feel better even with sertraline 😞 hope you are ok x

[Sonia009]

Hi Deblou

I have had help from @ChessieCat and @Gridley and others. Hopefully they can help you or direct you to someone who can now.

 

[Deblou46]

@ChessieCat

@Gridley

can you advise ? 

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Deblou46 said:

i started intense therapy

What do you mean by "intense therapy"?

 

On 10/12/2020 at 11:05 AM, Deblou46 said:

I have been told the average is 18-24 months for withdrawal to get better?

There is no average time for withdrawal.  It differs from person to person, some longer, some shorter.

 

Your Citalopram taper was very fast.  Substituting another drug, as you did with Sertraline, can help lessen withdrawal from the original drug but will not likely eliminate withdrawal.

 

What are your symptoms?

 

It would help us if you were to post a daily symptom chart with specifics as to your symptoms, how you feel before taking your dose, how do feel after and how you feel after your intense therapy.  You can use this format below, adapting it to your situation.  Please post this every day.

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that ae single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Gridley

[Deblou46]

Thank you

i am having therapy going back to my past and how my anxiety all stated I got very upset in the session too

 

should I post my symptoms every day from tomorrow on here ? 
 

thank you for your help I think the sertraline has lessened them as they are not as bad but this just seems to be dragging on 🙂

[Gridley]

6 minutes ago, Deblou46 said:

 

should I post my symptoms every day from tomorrow on here ? 

Yes, please.  Also, as I said, include how you feel before the therapy sessions, during and after and whether it feels they are helping.

 

It's very good that the Sertraline has lessened your symptoms.

 

7 minutes ago, Deblou46 said:

 

i am having therapy going back to my past and how my anxiety all stated I got very upset in the session too

 

You will need to weigh whether the therapy is helping or hurting more.  That will have to be your decision.  Generally in withdrawal we advise avoiding as much as possible stressful situations.