Pawlove: Xanax done, Paxil is next! But when?

[Pawlove]

@Aurorax, thank you as always for being so encouraging. 

 

I decided to see if a tiny cut would cause sxs. A week ago I cut around 2%, from 16 mg to 15.7 mg. Other than headaches, which were better, I was SO good- tons of energy, not sleeping like I did before paxil wd but some better and as busy as I wanted to be, which was accompanied by more motivation than I ever remember having. Ever. 

 

I did well with the baby cut until last night. I was starting to doze off and a weak cousin of akathisia jolted me awake. It was nowhere near full blown but a watered down version of the bad stuff. Restlessness and a strange pulling on my legs that has only occurred with paxil wd. This morning my gut is a mess and my body pain is up. Not like after the 2nd 10% cut but a definite change from the last many many days. It will be very interesting to me to see how long this lasts. With my first 10% cut the sxs were limited to a few days. That 2nd 10% cut seemed to be a huge insult to my body and it was having none of it. It behaved like a child having a temper tantrum- give that medicine back to me NOW! 

 

The degree that this has a hold on my brain and by association my gut and pain and sleep is hard to grasp. I am no longer obsessed with wanting to do this fast. Or even with a schedule at all. It's a part of my routine to melt the pill and pull out the waste. If I do that until this life is over, so be it. And that is a relief. Being a person who wanted the result to be decided before I started and a date to look forward to it's a big step in acceptance. 

[Pawlove]

Baby cut sxs from cutting .3 mg  lasted only one night so I made another .3 mg 2 nights ago. This is day 6 without a migraine and that is a miracle. I am doing a detox for heavy metals and mold toxins. I don't know what has helped but I am doing better than I have in a while. The only thing left is some insomnia. Onward! 

[Pawlove]

I am beyond thrilled- I can cry over dog shows and sweet stories and my headaches have been gone for over a week.... longer if I look back. I am still at 15.4 mg. I have a respiratory bug so plan to let that heal before another cut but the changes not even being 25% done are stunning and totally not expected. Unbelievably amazing!!! 

[Aurorax]

@Pawlove! How are you doing? How has your summer been?

 

Aurorax

[ChromeChinchilla]

On 6/20/2021 at 6:02 PM, Pawlove said:

I am beyond thrilled- I can cry over dog shows and sweet stories and my headaches have been gone for over a week....

 

 

It's such a wonderful feeling when we get back the ability to feel things like that again isn't it? Hope things have been going well for you since and you've been able to enjoy more of the things that are special to you. 

[Pawlove]

Wow...so long since I posted! I got a group email about the paper by SAD's founder and was beyond impressed and so appreciative for all the information. Because I started out on Benzo buddies that is where I have generally stayed and have kept a log of my paxil taper. I am familiar with the site and have a bff there who has been a life saver. 

 

But I have certainly struggled with this paxil wd and held for 3 months from Sept until Dec 26th. I have such pronounced physical sxs with tiny cuts and am going so slowly that I wonder if I will live enough years to be rid of this. Regardless, I will keep trying but again, the article referred to above has made me aware of being sensitive to sxs as far as the long term result. Slow is safer. 

 

I have been doing .2 mg cuts every 2 weeks. Around day 5-6 the pain, HAs, skin burning and increased insomnia kick in. And last maybe 4-6 days. I even tried .1 mg cut each week and may go back to that. I am currently at 14.4 mg. Somehow I am supposed to be, according to my log, at 14.2 mg and have no idea when I messed up. But I know on the 26th I was at 14.6 mg and the .2 mg cut has hurt, a lot.

 

As a warning to everyone, and a kick in my own butt- if I could, I stupidly did hours of cleaning with s strong bleach solution, without gloves, the week before Thanksgiving. I was doing better than I thought possible before that. The long hold was situational- things to do and I did not want wd sxs along for the ride. Since the bad days would have been when I needed to be with people, being 'social', I held. The bleach exposure- I thought I was the "old" me and could do anything... stupid or not- set me back terribly and I probably should not have made a cut with paxil until the sxs that I had associated with both lyrica wd and xanax wd were resolved. Skin burning to the extreme, terrible headaches and pain where I used to hurt and have physical reasons for but LDN had resolved. Extreme sensitivity to odors. So I am very mad at myself but had thought I would soldier through continuing the paxil taper. I am so ready for a schedule. Maybe not such a bright idea...I don't know. 

 

Wishing everyone a wonderfully healing year... and thank you admin for this site! Even tho I have not gotten the benefit and support I could have... a resolution to reach out for input and experience sharing! 

[Aurorax]

Good to hear from you @Pawlove! I've been wondering how you were doing. So reassuring to hear that you are still feeling quite well.

 

On 6/21/2021 at 1:02 AM, Pawlove said:

but the changes not even being 25% done are stunning and totally not expected. Unbelievably amazing!!! 

 

Yes, it's amazing what a big difference a seemingly small cut can make. 20 mg and 30 mg were very different experiences for me. I have clear memories of the years spent on 20 mg, but those on 30 mg are more or less lost.

 

On 6/10/2021 at 8:57 PM, Pawlove said:

The degree that this has a hold on my brain and by association my gut and pain and sleep is hard to grasp. I am no longer obsessed with wanting to do this fast. Or even with a schedule at all. It's a part of my routine to melt the pill and pull out the waste. If I do that until this life is over, so be it.

 

This. I still remember the realization of how physically dependent I had become. It felt unreal. I'm impressed that you have made peace with the situation already. Your topic is like a textbook example of a wise taper.

 

I'm not writing a lot on SA nowadays as I'm busy writing a novel, but I read all your posts with great interest. I hope you will keep coming back here now and then, and let us know how you are doing!

 

Aurorax

[Pawlove]

Tiny paxil cuts= ongoing sxs... anyone else?

 

I started tapering 14 months ago at 20 mg of paxilI  and was doing SO well... until making 2 tiny cuts 6 and 7 weeks ago- .2 mg each time. Yes, 2/10ths mg. The initial 2 10% cuts that I made were brutal but after that I had been making small cuts all these months and there were some rough times- akathesia, migraines, neck and back pain, gut issues, insomnia. I have physical reasons for the pain and the gut issues but LDN has been a miracle med for me and I was getting through the sxs fairly quickly and moving along. But now migraines and other pain are daily. 

 

So there is no way I am making another cut until this is better. I know it can be weeks or even months for sxs to appear and then to heal. But the info about sxs being permanent ... that worries me. I have a long hx of migraines, pre-all my meds. But I had gotten them under control by 90% and the only time I have one that imitrex and excedrin (I know- bad drug) won't help is only after paxil cuts. At any point does anyone recommend a tiny updose? My cuts seem too small to matter but it seems things have snowballed.... I am beginning to wonder if I was even right in trying to get off this blasted drug.

 

And another question- as an RN (so I feel like this should make sense to me)  I am struggling to understand this:

 

As noted many times in the literature, patients find tapering paroxetine to be extraordinarily difficult. Many are stymied at a dose lowered to 5mg or less. A powerful inhibitor of its own metabolism, paroxetine dosage decrease accelerates its processing, which amplifies the decrement to evoke severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

So if the dose is lower and paxil is an inhibitor of its own metabolism I don't understand the mechanism... sorry to be dense. If the metabolism is inhibited how is the processing accelerated? I don't know why that matters- my head will still burn, ache and throb. I am nowhere near a small dose but having been on paxil for 25++ years I am concerned about being stuck. I am trying to figure out how and when to proceed. Thanks for any advice... 

 

God bless every soul that needs this site! 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Pawlove

 

You said you've been using LDN to expedite your taper? And you're prone to migraines?

 

Paxil can be a very difficult drug to taper. It is so difficult, many doctors will routinely substitute fluoxetine as a "bridge" to go off. (Citalopram also may work.) Please read The Prozac switch or "bridging" with fluoxetine

[Pawlove]

Hi @Altostrata. Thank you for replying. No, the LDN was not for my taper but for chronic pain I have due to scoliosis surgery (fused with rods and screws T2 thru L4 and other ortho problems) and I have been on LDN for over a year with no issues. I was doing better than I had done in decades. I am prone to migraines but in taking B2 and ubiquinol I had them well under control. Now my Rx for migraines is not helping. I am having such bad headaches for the last several weeks that I am considering upping my paxil dose by .2 mg and see if it helps at all. 

 

Another sx I noticed when I made cuts to the paxil that were too large- initially I made 10% cuts twice and my heart rate slowed into the 40s with a lot of PVCs. Once I adjusted from those cuts I was fine until I made the 2 small cuts a week apart 7 weeks ago. Once again- slowed heart rate, PVCs. Is that typical? It is better. I decided to check my BP a bit ago because I wondered if maybe my BP was high and causing the headaches but it is unusually now- 90/50 so that's not it. Otherwise, I have energy, no issues. I do have insomnia with this but not terrible. It is the most frustrating taper I have done! 

 

I will look into the info about switching to fluoxetine. I have been on paxil for so long anything like that is a bit intimidating to me. I should never had been on paxil to start with but also never had any side effects other than assuming it dampened my emotions. I know it is a horrible drug and I feel stuck! 

 

Thanks again... 

 

 

 

 

I hope everyone here is doing well. Of course we wouldn't be here if that was the case. I am here again because I am struggling. My last 2 cuts were 6 and 7 weeks ago, .2 mg each. Yes, 2/10ths. And that tiny amount has thrown me for a loop. I cannot get the migraines under control and insomnia is hanging on. I am stuck at 12.5 mg (from an original 20 mg). I know my other wds have affected my system along with my stupid CT from paxil 3 years ago.

 

Soooo... there is no way I am making another cut until this is better. I know it can be weeks or even months for sxs to appear and then to heal. But the info about sxs being permanent ... that worries me. I have a long hx of migraines, pre-meds. But had gotten them under control and the only time I have one that imitrex and excedrin (I know- bad drug) won't help and I have other elevated pain levels is after cuts with the paxil. At any point does anyone recommend a tiny updose? My cuts seem too small to matter but I am getting worried.... and beginning to wonder if I was even right in trying to get off this blasted drug. And another question- as an RN I am struggling to understand this:

As noted many times in the literature, patients find tapering paroxetine to be extraordinarily difficult. Many are stymied at a dose lowered to 5mg or less. A powerful inhibitor of its own metabolism, paroxetine dosage decrease accelerates its processing, which amplifies the decrement to evoke severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

So if the dose is lower and paxil is an inhibitor of its own metabolism I don't understand the mechanism... sorry to be dense. If the metabolism is inhibited how is the processing accelerated? I don't know why that matters- my head will still burn, ache and throb. I am trying to figure out how and when to proceed. 

 

God bless every soul that needs this site! 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, Pawlove said:

Another sx I noticed when I made cuts to the paxil that were too large- initially I made 10% cuts twice and my heart rate slowed into the 40s with a lot of PVCs. Once I adjusted from those cuts I was fine until I made the 2 small cuts a week apart 7 weeks ago. Once again- slowed heart rate, PVCs. Is that typical?

 

It's not typical but it is not a desirable withdrawal symptom. You need to taper Paxil more carefully, consider a switch as discussed, or stay at this Paxil dose for a good long while. It's possible, but not guaranteed, that you'll be able to continue to very gradually taper if you let your nervous system settle down for some months.

[Aurorax]

Hi @Pawlove!

 

12 hours ago, Pawlove said:

So if the dose is lower and paxil is an inhibitor of its own metabolism I don't understand the mechanism... sorry to be dense.

 

Paxil inhibits its own metabolism. So when you take less of it, it's easier for the body to metabolize the Paxil you take. The levels of Paxil in your body will decrease not only because you take less of it, but also because your body can metabolize that amount more quickly.
   I hope that made sense. I don't believe that's the main reason why people struggle to taper at low doses, but that's another topic.

 

On 4/9/2022 at 9:18 PM, Pawlove said:

At any point does anyone recommend a tiny updose? My cuts seem too small to matter but it seems things have snowballed.... I am beginning to wonder if I was even right in trying to get off this blasted drug.

 

Yes, small cuts can add up with time, and I can see why you are concerned. I would handle this the way you did after the two 10% cuts, that is, hold and wait. You stabilized quickly then, and there is no reason to believe this time is different. Hold until you are stable and preferable for several more weeks or months. I wouldn't updose unless the wd is unbearable. There is no guarantee that it will help, and you might just upset your nervous system. I'm not a fan of Prozac bridges, they are great when they work, but they don't always do.
   But this is just how I would do it, and it's by no means medical advice.

 

12 hours ago, Pawlove said:

I should never had been on paxil to start with but also never had any side effects other than assuming it dampened my emotions. I know it is a horrible drug and I feel stuck! 

 

I know you are struggling, but I hope you take the time to celebrate how far you have come. You mentioned earlier that you were getting your emotions back. That's amazing. Don't see it as a failure if you decide to stay on this dose for a while.

 

Sending you hugs!

 

Aurorax

[Pawlove]

@Aurorax, thank you so much for the replies! I have got to figure out when I have a reply thru email. 😜 I have thought so many times that I needed to come on here and update. Your info is always beyond helpful and yes, it did make sense about the metabolism.

 

Because my son was coming to visit and I had not seen him in nearly 4 years I did updose. I went back up .2 mg. Each day the HAs and pain issues were getting worse. The next day, after the updose, my sxs were a ton better. Amazingly so. That was in late April and as of yesterday I am finally back to where I was, at 12.5 mg. I am cutting .1 mg at a time and holding until the akathesia and HAs, pain, etc are about gone. If there is some event like family 4th of July celebrations I will put off a cut until that is over. I would never have dreamed I would still be at this after 16+ months, much less still short of half way there but to enjoy life now and not be completely miserable I am taking it slowly. I really think my paxil CT a few years ago and all the other drugs that I wd from have made me hyper sensitive. 

 

For the first time since I started mixing my paxil in water I spilled a small amount 2 nights ago. It didn't occur to me until later that all I needed to do was draw up what was left and I could see how much I had lost but I guessed and apparently I was wrong. Major akathesia that night. It stuns me, for lack of another word, that tiny amounts can cause any sxs at all. I can see how small cuts accumulate over time but I am waiting out the sxs now and ..well, it's frustrating. But very manageable overall. I am having a great summer- a huge garden for the first time in 20 years, running 5xs a week... I am very very grateful. I would never in a million years have imagined I would be able to do what I am doing now. 

 

How are you doing Aurorax? You are so amazing and had come so extremely far last time I read your thread that I pray you are just getting better and better. 

[Aurorax]

Thanks for the update, @Pawlove! Good to know things are going well! It sounds like you have found the right pace for you. It makes perfect sense to go slow and continue to enjoy your life. Good to hear that the updose worked well, too. That's useful to know if you ever find yourself in a similar situation again.

 

On 7/7/2022 at 12:00 AM, Pawlove said:

Major akathesia that night. It stuns me, for lack of another word, that tiny amounts can cause any sxs at all.

 

Yes, I remember my disbelief when I made that discovery.

 

On 7/7/2022 at 12:00 AM, Pawlove said:

I am having a great summer- a huge garden for the first time in 20 years, running 5xs a week... I am very very grateful. I would never in a million years have imagined I would be able to do what I am doing now. 

 

Wow, amazing. I'm so happy for you! I have a garden, too. It takes way too much of my time during the spring, but I can't resist it.

 

On 7/7/2022 at 12:00 AM, Pawlove said:

How are you doing Aurorax?

 

I've been doing really well this spring but pushed myself a little too hard lately, which caused a minor setback. Nothing too serious, but I have realized that I'm still in recovery even though I feel more or less back to normal most of the time. I still need to eat well, sleep well, get my workouts in, and avoid doing too much at once. I guess that's true for everyone, but when the average person only gets exhausted, I get a few mild wd symptoms.
I'll have vacation soon, and I hope to have time to post a more detailed update in my topic.

 

Aurorax

[Pawlove]

That is awesome that you will be able to vacation. I hope it's totally relaxing. I am lying on my PEMF mat in pain now from thinking I am "normal". It's mainly the garden that has caused me to be so active that my ortho issues are flaring up but I love the garden so much. I also have honeybees- a year and a half now- and they are a ton of work. My husband is ready for a vacation but I told him as long as the garden is producing I won't leave. Isn't that pathetic? I think every squash and pea and tomato are beautiful! 😁  Hubs had told me, when I wanted the garden, that I couldn't keep up with it, physically. So of course I am pushing to prove him wrong. We have a farm- beef cattle and broilers and he is way too busy so the garden is mine. His objection to it was that he would have another thing to have to do but so far I am making sure he doesn't. I don't think the increased pain this time is related to the paxil cut altho that usually sets in right at this time- about 6 days in. Who knows? I certainly hope your set back is very temporary and you are able to enjoy your vacation to the max! 

[Pawlove]

An update... I am on an extended hold with paxil at 12.4 mg. The wd sxs are so delayed and persistent that I am waiting for a special trip in a couple of weeks before I make another cut. My insomnia and akatheisa around 11 PM- midnight were so bothersome that I had restarted ambien and wondered if I would be able to get off while in the midst of tapering paxil. Since doing this hold I have had a week at a time where I slept well without ambien so I know the brain does heal. 

 

A friend had told me that paxil should not be melted in only water which is what I was doing. I changed pharmacies and my new generic pills are different. The new ones are long and pink and the old ones were round and white. The pink ones seem to have a coating that is harder to melt so I had started putting the pill in 1 ml of alcohol. That is such a small amount I have to prop the little pill bottle I use on its side to cover the pill but it works. Then I add 19 mls of water and waste as before. I have had the "issue" with other cuts but this was not a cut, just a change- sexual dreams. I won't call that a problem. Wouldn't this process be grand if that was the main problem? No, HAs, insomnia, increase in chronic pain and the dreaded akathesia are my demons with this. Thankfully, very very thankfully, I have not experienced the horrific psychological effects that I had when I did my (very uninformed) CT 4 or so years ago. Life goes on and I pray that everyone here seeking help is making good progress. 

 

I can attest- this can get better. I went from being in bed to being as active and happy as I have ever been in my life. There is daylight at the end of the pharma tunnel!