Victor: An Odd Case - Withdrawal symptoms appearing years later despite off from medication - Anyone had a similar experience?

[Victor]

An Odd Case

 

I am going to try to explain this as short as I can. 

 

A couple of years ago a strange thing happened to me when I was on anti-depressive medication. The episode took place in 2013 after a weekend where I suddenly went cold turkey on my medicine (which I now know you shouldn't do) and felt very weird a couple of days before starting to take my medicine again and then the "weird feeling" suddenly passed away (perhaps a week later after starting the medication again). This "Weird feeling" is hard to describe but it felt like your head was either in an aquarium or like if your brain was wrapped in plastic foil. I could go to school, exercise or do whatever you do during your weekdays without no one really noticing anything weird about me. But I was stuck with this scary  kind of "outer body experience" and was almost going mad mentally. 

 

Looking back at it now I think I might have opened "pandora's box" during this event. 

 

 

 

And what do I mean by Pandoras box? 

 

Well because I stopped my anti-depressive medication in 2014 and was off it a couple of years (since a felt good and not in need of it), but suddenly in 2016 (still off from medication) I had a bad trip on marijuana which had me waking up the next day feeling exactly the same "weird feeling" I did after going cold turkey on my anti-depressive medicine in 2013. Not only was that horrible feeling back, but that feeling also lasted a couple of weeks (5-7 weeks perhaps) before it slowly went away. I have this experience documented in a diary format somewhere. 

 

I'm not a big consumer when it comes to party drugs but have probably tried marijuana at least 50+ times before this event and have never experienced anything like it, not even close. After this horrible experience, I decided to stay away from drugs completely since I was scared that a similar episode could occur again. At least that's what I thought back then.....

 

The new years eve between 2017/2018 I took some MDMA, since I thought that this is a completely different drug from marijuana and sertraline and it didn't seem logical that a similar episode could occur with such a different drug. Well, it did..... But it took perhaps 3-5 days before this "weird feeling" came crawling back after the MDMA trip. This freaked me out of course because it made me think: wonder how long this horrible experience will last this time and so on.

 

After 2 months, this "weird feeling" hadn't disappeared and I got desperate after trying to get help from a shrink, calling all kinds of different help centers and finally (this is a whole separate story, how the Swedish doctors handles anything that has drugs related to it, could talk for hours about how stigmatized drugs are in Sweden) came to my own conclusion after a "hobby" analyze that hmm wonder if I can reverse it all by starting with anti-depressive medication again? 

 

Finally, I got hold of a psychiatrist who could subscribe the medicine for me --> had a couple of horrible weeks getting into the medication again (where I even felt worse for a while) before the "weird feeling" disappeared after a couple of weeks of medication. Very grateful that it helped, not sure what I would have done otherwise.

 

 

 

And why tell you this story?

 

• Has anyone out there hade a similar experience?

 

• I would like to understand what it was that happened to me? I understand that the brain is complicated and there is only so much we still know about the human brain, all I can do is hope to find answers and keep on digging..... 

 

• Hopefully, my experience can help other people with similar experience stepping forward so that we can prevent people from having the same experiences that I/we had. 

 

 

 

Lastly, I will be more than willing to elaborate if it could be useful/needed for trying to answer my questions. Just let me know and I'll do my best answering the questions in the comments section. 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Victor 

Edited January 31, 2020 by manymoretodays
reduced font size

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Victor.  We are a site for going off psychiatric drugs and helping members cope with withdrawal.  Are you on a psychiatric drug now?  If so, what is it and what dosage are you taking?  Are you looking for assistance in tapering off that drug?

 

You're very correct when you write there is so little we know about the brain.  This is compounded when we mix in psychiatric drugs and recreational drugs.  Here is my best explanation regarding what happened to you over the years.  In 2013 when you cold turkeyed off your drug (what it sertraline?), your system had become accustomed to the drug and you went into withdrawal.  There are many, many withdrawal symptoms.  The "weird feeling" you describe, wherein your brain felt like it was wrapped in plastic or underwater sounds like a variety of what we call cognitive fog, which is a very common withdrawal symptom.  When you went back on the drug a couple of days later, your brain was getting what it was used to and things calmed down.

 

It is important to understand that psychiatric drugs change the very architecture of the brain.  The drugs cause an unnatural chemical imbalance in the brain.  Neurotransmitters are artificially shut down.  When we stop taking the drug and it is "out of our system," the changes to the brain remain, and this can last years.  When you went off the drug in 2014,  you were thrown back into withdrawal.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF)

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

When you took the MDMA Dec. 31, 2017, that drug was acting on a central nervous system still destabilized by withdrawal.  When the CNS is destabilized, is is very sensitized and drugs, whether psychiatric or recreational, can have an outsized effect, destabilizing you further.  

 

I don't know why the anti-depressive drug you took helped.  I'm glad it did.  Adding psychiatric drugs to counter the effects of other drugs is not something we recommend but, again, I'm glad you're feeling better.

 

This is your Introduction topic where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.  (I removed your last name from your post to preserve your anonymity.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Gridley

[Victor]

Thank you Gridley for your quick and thorough explanation. Very grateful for your help.

 

Sorry, I didn't explain properly in my story. I hope that this will clear things, sorry for long sentences. 

 

I was on medication for the first time about a year between fall 2013 to late spring 2014. During this period I took 75 mg of Sertraline (can't remember the manufacturer unfortunately). What I can remember was though that I didn't have any bad experiences during this period besides when I went cold turkey for a weekend in the middle of this period. And when I tapered off in late spring 2014 (think I did it for 2-3 weeks, remember that I had "brain zaps" as a symptom for a couple of days but after that I didn't really have any withdrawal symptoms, luckily despite I now know that my tapering period was way too short). 

 

The second time I started medicating was in March 2018 to aug/sep 2019 (started slowly tapering off after this for 3-4 months and now I have been completely off for perhaps 2 months) as a result of the cognitive fog that I got after my MDMA trip which I'm pretty sure was the catalyst. I think I knew back then that it was a risky venture to use a psychiatric drug as a counter effect as you say but I was desperate. Since no one that I talked to, doctors, shrinks you name it would take this matter seriously (and also if you mention a case thats related to recreational drugs in Sweden no one wants to touch the case since it's so stigmatized here........) 

 

During my second period of medication I medicated 100 mg Sertraline and 25 mg Saroten (Amitriptylin). And that's what I have been off from now for about 2 months and counting. Since my long tapering I have felt ok, a bit anxious from now and then. There is also one thing that's a bit worrying which is that it almost feels like I have a tiny bit left of the "cognitive fog" left as well in my system. I don't really think about it during day time but as soon as I'm tired and during night time I can feel that it hasn't completely gone away. 

 

Your answers have been helping me a lot already, thanks a lot again! Also thank you for the links. 

 

 

 

Do you perhaps have any advice on what I could do to heal quicker from the last bit of the "cognitive fog" now that you have more information? Coping with the anxiety I exercise a lot, do yoga and meditate which helps. 

 

I think it also would be helpful for me to read about similar experiences as mine from someone else. Have you seen anyone in this forum write a post about something similar? 

 

 

 

Thank you for removing my last name, had it out of habit. 

 

Best regards,

Victor

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by manymoretodays
reduced font size to 14, for ease of reading

[Boris]

In 2010 after I had my first bad reaction going off and then back on Paroxetine I decided to get some mdma. Normally It would have been from a trusted friend but this time I was on a bit of high from my prescription meds. So I bought it in a club, didn't test it and it could have been anything which is usually is nowadays. Main rule is always test it! (I haven't touched it since or anything else)

 

About 4 days after I had a major relapse of symptoms the same as my withdrawal and reinstatement of Paroxetine. Major anxiety, agitation, sweating, insomnia, spaced out, panic etc This came and went for a few months slowly lowering in intensity and time.

 

Like you said no one knows what happens. Some drugs forums I read there were 100s of people having these reactions to untested mdma. I think I had been sensitised from the reactions to Paroxetine and from that moment onwards most stimulants (coffee, nicotine etc) would set me off into a withdrawal like symptoms pattern.

 

It really wasn't a good experience even though the actual night was but it wasn't worth 4 months of mental anguish. I stick to whisky nowadays!

 

All I can say is taper very slowly if you decide to come off the medication.

[Gridley]

3 minutes ago, Victor said:

Do you perhaps have any advice on what I could do to heal quicker from the last bit of the "cognitive fog" now that you have more information? Coping with the anxiety I exercise a lot, do yoga and meditate which helps. 

 

Time really is the only cure.  The cognitive fog will fade with time.  We have not found found that supplements (other than magnesium and omegas, which don't work for everyone) do anything to speed up recovery. 

 

Regarding anxiety, here are some links that have helped many members.  The last link, legs-on-wall-restorative yoga, helped me immensely.  My anxiety has faded a lot with the passage of time.

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)
_____________

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

One other thing to monitor is that sometimes intense exercise increases anxiety symptoms when in withdrawal..  For some members intense exercise works well.  For others, more gentle exercise works better.  See which is better for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

Saying hello, going to comment after work.....I have similar experience. Talk later  In short, best strategy now is to wait it out and stabilise. And no more recreational drugs, I can't even tolerate alcohol. 

[sunnysideup69]

So...I went off Citalopram in 2015 (too fast ). I felt ok for about 11 months, but looking back, anxiety was still an issue. I took ecstasy at a club in March 2016, felt weird for a couple of days but then okay, but oh my god a week later I came absolutely crashing down with bad anxiety attacks and deep drops into very dark depression. Had NEVER experienced this before with recreational drugs.

As Gridley says above, once you take a psychiatric drug, your CNS is not the same. Even a year later, in my case. You're destabilised and your system is still healing, so to put in something that messes with serotonin, as MDMA does, ( and also antidepressants), and serotonin receptors can have wildly unpredictable results...as you've found out.I also went back onto my previous antidepressant and thankfully it worked. I wasn't so lucky in May 2018 and have only just stabilised.

 

There's a recreational drugs forum, blue light it's called, full of people who have these long term symptoms...they call it a long term comedown. It does go away but the main healing factor is.....time. And the advice given there is pretty much the same as here re waiting it out and not drinking/smoking etc.

You'll be fine, but you may have to accept that certain things are off limits if you seriously want to heal

 

[Chaotnr1]

Hi

I also have a very similar experience.

Mid November 2018 I went partying with a few friends and took mdma, cocaine, speed and alcohol.

No substance was tested and I don't know how much I took. (I can't emphasize enough how stupid that was!)

I felt ok after the weekend, no unusual hangover.

On the fourth day the panic attacks started and wouldn't subside for weeks.

I have never been on any medication before this incident and I never had such a bad reaction to recreational drugs.

After a month I had enough and went to my GP, she immediately prescribed me Venlafaxine and Seroquel.

I took the medication (seroquel has been exchanged two times) for two months and then went cold turkey.

I am now almost a year drug free but I still suffer a lot, mostly because of panic attacks and depression.

I cannot differentiate if I am in withdrawal or if this is an after effect of the recreational drug Incident.

Probably both.

I just hope that I don't have any permanent damage and that my brain will heal the same way as it heals from psychiatric drugs.

[Victor]

13 hours ago, Gridley said:

 

Time really is the only cure.  The cognitive fog will fade with time.  We have not found found that supplements (other than magnesium and omegas, which don't work for everyone) do anything to speed up recovery. 

 

Regarding anxiety, here are some links that have helped many members.  The last link, legs-on-wall-restorative yoga, helped me immensely.  My anxiety has faded a lot with the passage of time.

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)
_____________

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

One other thing to monitor is that sometimes intense exercise increases anxiety symptoms when in withdrawal..  For some members intense exercise works well.  For others, more gentle exercise works better.  See which is better for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, thank you a lot for the advice. This really helps! 

[Victor]

Big thanks Boris and SunnySideup for sharing your experiences. 

 

I also had a good trip while on MDMA but as your experiences seem to be the same it doesn't seem to matter for when the come down comes, the cognitive fog came back again anyway, 3-5 days after I took MDMA.  

 

I haven't touched recreational drugs since my MDMA episode in 2018. Both of your experiences seem to be from taking MDMA. It's weird though I wonder why I got the "cognitive fog" as a result from a bad marijuana trip in 2016. Because what I have understood Marijuana effects the brain in a different way in comparison to MDMA, but I might be wrong here. 

 

One last thing about my cognitive fog. I can feel it more intensively when I am wearing my glasses, which have led to that I haven't been able to wear glasses for a full day since. This has led to that I have to wear contacts everyday which thank god is working well. I can wear glasses at home and for perhaps half a working day but after that I feel quite dizzy which is annoying and a bit scary. Have you had similar experiences as well? If you guys wear glasses or use contacts. 

 

Best regards,

V

[Victor]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:47 PM, Chaotnr1 said:

Hi

I also have a very similar experience.

Mid November 2018 I went partying with a few friends and took mdma, cocaine, speed and alcohol.

No substance was tested and I don't know how much I took. (I can't emphasize enough how stupid that was!)

I felt ok after the weekend, no unusual hangover.

On the fourth day the panic attacks started and wouldn't subside for weeks.

I have never been on any medication before this incident and I never had such a bad reaction to recreational drugs.

After a month I had enough and went to my GP, she immediately prescribed me Venlafaxine and Seroquel.

I took the medication (seroquel has been exchanged two times) for two months and then went cold turkey.

I am now almost a year drug free but I still suffer a lot, mostly because of panic attacks and depression.

I cannot differentiate if I am in withdrawal or if this is an after effect of the recreational drug Incident.

Probably both.

I just hope that I don't have any permanent damage and that my brain will heal the same way as it heals from psychiatric drugs.

 

I'm sorry to hear that, sounds like you've had a horrible experience similliar to mine. Thank you for sharing your story with us. 

 

Have you experienced the "cognitive fog" as a withdrawal symptom?

 

Please check Gridleys post in this thread and hopefully his or hers information can help you out a bit. You could also check out the forum blue light that Sunny Side recommended above in the thread and hopefully you can find some answers there. 

 

I hear you and I also hope that my brain hasn't been damaged too much and eventually will recover after these events. 

 

[Chaotnr1]

12 hours ago, Victor said:

 

I'm sorry to hear that, sounds like you've had a horrible experience similliar to mine. Thank you for sharing your story with us. 

 

Have you experienced the "cognitive fog" as a withdrawal symptom?

 

Please check Gridleys post in this thread and hopefully his or hers information can help you out a bit. You could also check out the forum blue light that Sunny Side recommended above in the thread and hopefully you can find some answers there. 

 

I hear you and I also hope that my brain hasn't been damaged too much and eventually will recover after these events. 

 

 

Hey Victor

I am also glad that you shared your story!

It really helps to know that I am not just imagining all of this and there are other people out there with very similar experiences.

It also makes it a lot easier explaining my condition to others. (I think that most people still don't take me seriously)

 

About the cognitive fog, yes I do experience it.

I think it is what everyone else describes as dp/dr which is basically anxiety.

It feels like I am not really "there", and as if my mind has a hard time accessing all the brains resources (memories, logic, feelings).

Like my brain is unable to process all the information it is getting from the senses.

In the beginning of my withdrawal I had an extremely hard time just following discussions and forming sentences, I felt completely stupid and started to panic. (really sucks when you work in IT 😅)

It has definitely gotten better since but it is still troubling me.

By avoiding too much stimulation (loud noises, lights, stress etc.) and generally relaxing it gets more manageable

 

I am familiar with the bluelight forum thread about the MDMA LTC (I put a looot of effort in researching my condition 😅)

The general consensus seems to be that time heals it all and I am also sharing this opinion.

 

To me it sounds like you are doing fairly ok right now and the cognitive fog isn't bothering you too much?

[Victor]

3 hours ago, Chaotnr1 said:

 

Hey Victor

I am also glad that you shared your story!

It really helps to know that I am not just imagining all of this and there are other people out there with very similar experiences.

It also makes it a lot easier explaining my condition to others. (I think that most people still don't take me seriously)

 

About the cognitive fog, yes I do experience it.

I think it is what everyone else describes as dp/dr which is basically anxiety.

It feels like I am not really "there", and as if my mind has a hard time accessing all the brains resources (memories, logic, feelings).

Like my brain is unable to process all the information it is getting from the senses.

In the beginning of my withdrawal I had an extremely hard time just following discussions and forming sentences, I felt completely stupid and started to panic. (really sucks when you work in IT 😅)

It has definitely gotten better since but it is still troubling me.

By avoiding too much stimulation (loud noises, lights, stress etc.) and generally relaxing it gets more manageable

 

I am familiar with the bluelight forum thread about the MDMA LTC (I put a looot of effort in researching my condition 😅)

The general consensus seems to be that time heals it all and I am also sharing this opinion.

 

To me it sounds like you are doing fairly ok right now and the cognitive fog isn't bothering you too much?

Thanks again for your quick reply. 

 

I can relate to the feeling "I am not really there" that's how I felt when the "cognitive fog" was peaking. But that type of feeling affected me mostly close to the episode outbreaks and doesn't affect me in that intense way now, thank god for that. 

 

I'm definitely doing ok today comparison to how it has been. If I had to scale how I fell today in comparison when it was the worst i would say that maybe I am recovered to 80%. 

 

As I mentioned above, I do have anxiety every now and then but that's fine and the fog will affect my mostly when I am wearing my glasses, isn't that weird? It's like when my sight is "too good" I can feel "cognitive fog" again in a light way..... 

 

But I guess that will also fade away completely as time goes and I recover fully, hopefully.