Ripley: mirtazapine withdrawal and reinstatement problems

[ChessieCat]

Hi Ripley,

 

I've let the other mods know that you need assistance.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Ripley. Is it possible you worry about reducing mirtazapine, and this worry affects your sleep?

 

If so, I would turn that off. One technique is to put soft meditation music on at bedtime, follow it with your mind instead of thinking.

 

Can you see what happens with the reduction to 7.35mg over 4 or 5 days? It should be tolerable.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

[Ripley]

Thank you Altostrata for your reply.

 

I found it reassuring that you think it should settle in a few days. As the amount was so small, I suppose I didn't really expect to feel it. And I'm sure my anxiety then stepped up as you guessed. Last night was much better. 

 

I do have a lot of anxiety around sleep as this was my primary withdrawal problem. I also have had significant hair loss and some weight gain this time round, which I didn't have before. 

 

Thank you again for this website and generously giving your time and expertise. 

[Shebon]

Hi Ripley:

Are you a fan of the "Aliens" movies?  Ripley was the name of the main female hero character, Sigourney Weaver.  

 

Just in thought to your post above, did you add any supplements to your routine?  Any of the B vitamins can be stimulating; chocolate and caffeine at nite same, and and an all carb dinner is not good.  Protein is your friend during the taper.  

 

I drink a soothing Good Earth tea around 7:30-8 p.m. with chamomile and other good stuff.  It is really helping to calm things down before bedtime.  Some nites, I add 1/2 tablet of Unisom and that seems to do the trick.  My sleep was better at the start of my taper but recently, I have at least (3) wakeups during the nite but get back to sleep.  The nitemares of Mirt are something else too.  

 

I hope you can go forward without too many problems as I know sleep is what we fear that we will loose.  If I have a "not so good" nite, I know that the next nite will be much better.  

 

Hang in there....things will start to even out and your body will get used to the lower dosage.  At the start of my taper, I had headaches and a tooth that I thought would need a root canal -- NOT SO.  Now, things have calmed down a lot and going forward is helping things.  I firmly believe that we will have healing during the taper and when we are done with the taper, things will be much improved.  

 

Best regards,

Shebon 

[Ripley]

Hi Shebon

 

I don't really know why I chose the name Ripley but I do happen to like the Alien movies (esp 2nd) and The Talented Mr Ripley too. Perhaps they were at the back of mind My husband and I love films generally. Why did you chose Shebon?

 

Thank you for your message and suggestions. You know the other week I had a multivitamin with a low dose vit B and it kept me awake all night! But I've been very careful since my reduction and still had a rubbish night last night with only a couple of hours sleep.

 

I think I really need to work on my anxiety as, when I felt I wasn't sleeping, I started panicking about how on earth I would get to zero when such a tiny drop was an issue! This is a bit of a worry tbh. I feel I must have damaged my system badly as I got away with quite large drops (in hindsight) before and didn't feel them. 

 

I notice you're lowering a dose each week and then two etc... Does this work better for you than reducing uniformly by a percentage? This seems to be the recommended way if possible? It's good you're on a low dose to start with.

 

I hope it gets better as I go along, as you say. I used to find it comforting to plan my taper and when I can expect to be free etc....but I think this has all gone out of the window in recent days! It looks like it has to be strictly one step at a time and see how we go....

 

Best wishes

Ripley 

[Shebon]

Hi Ripley:

 

Yep, we love movies too -- good way to wind down and enjoy a nice cup of tea.  My name is from my cattle dog, Sheba.  I put it together with "bon" at the end for meaning "good" en francaise.  I am also learning French to get back to Quebec, which we visited in September last year.  My ancestry is French Canadian.  

 

I take it you have crossed to a liquid compound taper?  You had done so well with your taper to 1.5 mg. but alternating probably set off the craziness of the insomnia.  You might find you can taper according to schedule after you get going.  I was worried I would be held up at 3.25 mg. as that's the farthest I had ever gotten.  But it seems things have settled and onward I go. 

 

Are you using a compounding pharmacy?  I crossed over in August 2018 to liquid water with Solt tab.  When I made it to 3.25 mg., things blew up and I went back to my old tablets.  My method seems to be working, even though not the usual kind of taper.  I stay for (4) weeks at the next phase of reduction before I add another nite of 1/2 dose into the mix.  

 

Hope you stabilize and don't worry too much about the sleep.  You started to rock the boat again, but I think things will settle down for you just fine.  And you will have more courage to make the next reduction.

 

Stay well, well

Shebon

[Ripley]

Hi Shebon

 

Canada looks beautiful - I'd love to go one day. Its wonderful you have heritage to explore there. Do you still have family there?

 

Last night was a good night. I'm thinking this drop may have caused a bump but I'm sure my own fears/expectations etc. exacerbated things a lot. So I'm still optimistic going forward. Thank you for your words of encouragement! I'll hold a week extra than planned this time round and keep you posted.

 

I'm using a liquid suspension of mirtazapine, it's not one I'm making myself with tablets and water. I tried that once and it didn't work for me so I'm just hoping to doctor will keep prescribing the suspension as it's much more expensive than the tablets. I then measure out a little water into an eggcup each evening and add the liquid with my syringe and drink it like a shot. 

 

Yes, the alternating nights method definitely caused my problems. It seems to be almost the standard advice doctors give to people! I'm glad your method is working for you. Are you crushing tablets? I wonder why you got stuck at 3.25mg before? It's great that you've broken through that this time. 

 

All the best,

Ripley

[Malbec37]

@Ripley Hi there! I'm going to follow your thread as I'm also tapering off mertazapine (nasty stuff!)...I've been on it 6 years at 30mg and have managed to get down to 15mg when I found SA and have been holding on 15 now for 4 months...I did drop lower then 15mg too quickly and it all went VERY bad so ended up back on 15mg and holding to stabilise.... have learnt a lot and much about windows and waves and impact of anxiety of WD symptoms etc...importance of self care, sensitivity etc - If you're interested you could read my thread

 

Anyway currently I'm in the stage of trying to switch to liquid mert to then start tapering down from 15mg either 10% per month or the brass monkey scale way...did you have problems getting the liquid prescribed by your GP as I know plenty of folk who have been refused? I have a telephone appointment with the doctor next week so I pray they give it to me as I'm super sensitive to WD so cutting pills not an option and I don't want to start making my own liquid...I also hear that the Ora dispersable tablets are not currently available due to COVID supply chain problems and that was my next best option

 

Another question I assume you were on 7.5mg as a PILL and then switched across to liquid...did you do a straight switch like pill one night and then liquid the next or did you do a gradual switch? 

 

Thanks and great to meet to you 

 

Malbec 

[Ripley]

Hi Malbec

 

It's good to meet you! It looks like you and I were both suffering the worst of withdrawal symptoms at the same time, earlier in the year. Although you have managed to halve your dose, which is a great achievement! (I've managed to significantly increase mine )

 

With regard to switching from pills to liquid, I remember I did this straight away without cross tapering. I didn't have any problems but I think my system was much more robust then, before my withdrawal problems, so i dont know what it would be like now. Sorry that probably doesn't help you much!

 

Right now, I'm taking a very cautious approach to things after what happened. You have nothing to lose by starting out with the brassmonkey slide taper and seeing how you go rather than a 10% drop straight away. You could slowly build up if it goes well.

 

Regarding the liquid, I know doctors don't like prescribing it. I didn't know the dispersable tablets are unavailable now (I also tried these too without a taper and that did not work). It has been a fear of mine that something would happen to disrupt the supply of mirt during lockdown! Hopefully, we're past the threat of that now. I hope you're able to get what you need from your doctor next week. 

 

All the best,

Ripley

[Malbec37]

@Ripley thanks for the response 

 

Yes I have done well to get halfway but I made mistakes as well, we all do, and I have suffered a great deal but thankfully much more stable now...all we can do is feel our way through the process and reach out for the advice and help of others in the WD community. It's not a problem that you've gone up a bit...you're still not on a large dose by any means and your desire to be free eventually is there and you will get there

 

What you say is helpful...especially about you being in a stable place when you switched from pill to liquid. I am currently pretty stable (well as stable as you can probably hope to be when in the midst of WD from mertazapine) so my instinct tells me that I would probably be ok with a straight switch...but then my cautious side is saying why not do the gradual cross over as that is the recommended way on SA and this is the holy grail of WD advice! I will mull it over but first thing is first and I need to get the all important prescription for the liquid 

 

Yes I was told that the ora dispensable tablets are currently not available in the UK....they are quite niche so likely only made by limited suppliers and the mirtazapine pill is never likely to run out...we'd all be very f******* if it did! I know the liquid is made here in the UK so that is a good thing as far as supply is concerned 

 

Thanks for the advice re tapering speed...I may well do as you say instead of the 10%

 

So much to think about in this process...who would've believed we would have to go to such lengths get off these pills that the doctors say only take a couple of weeks to withdraw from (if they say anything at all)!? It's really a great scandal in my eyes but thankfully things are starting to change and people are waking up to the problems of WD (not to mention the side effects) of these drugs 

[Shebon]

Hi Ripley and Malbec:

 

I can understand now why it takes many times to try and taper off this stuff.  I have tried several different methods and ended up back to 3.75 mg.  I did try to half it and had 28 fairly good nites but then a couple of 3 hr. nites and went back up to 3.75 mg.  Boy, I experienced the full negative of getting down low and going back up...I had 4-5 zero sleep nites, not in a row, thank goodness.  It took me about 45 days to stabilize on the original dose.  

 

Malbec; a big congrats to getting to half (15 mg.) mirt. fairly quickly.  I think my 3.75 mg. mirt quit working for sleep years ago.  Now it's just a way to make me "carb hungry" and I want to be off completely.  

 

Ripley; I take 15 mg. tablet, using pill cutter, make 1/8s of the 15 mg.  So that's how I can add in the 1.87 mg. mirt.  When I get to all 1.87 mg.  mirt (hopefully, July), I will hold for a few months and then continue my method of taking 1/2 of the 1.87 at one nite per week.  Hold for a month, then add two nites of 1/2 of 1.87 per week., etc.  

 

I tried crushing and mixing the 15 mg. tablet with Oragel and then maple syrup.  Then withdrawing 3.75 mg with a syringe.  I got about two weeks into that -- I would put the remaining solution in to the fridge but I think the mirt degrades in the solutions and the dosing is problematic.

 

I crossed over to Soltab 15 mg. and mixed that with water and used a 1/4 tablet (3.75 mg.).  That seemed to work for me for 80 days and at 3.25 mg. it went south.  I went back to the 15 mg. tablets and cutting them into 1/4s, now 1/8s.  

 

To get off this stuff is a lesson in discovery in and of itself.  I have read many others' tapering methods -- you both seem to be going in the right direction with 10% or less.  

 

Ripley; I did so love the second Aliens movie too!  The best of them all!

 

Have a great weekend!

Shebon

[Ripley]

Hi @Shebon and @Malbec

 

Shebon, it looks like you've tried nearly every way of making up mirtazapine! I'm pleased you've found a method that's now working well for you. (Were you unable to get hold of the liquid suspension?)

 

This is also my third time of coming off this drug. The first time I stopped abruptly and was absolutely fine until delayed withdrawal kicked in about 3 or 4 months later! I had no idea it was connected to mirt so was 'lucky' to restart it, and you know the rest! 

 

I wish I hadn't got tangled up with this drug in the first place but at least we now have the necessary information to come off it properly. It is indeed shocking Malbec that these brain-altering chemicals are readily prescribed by doctors and the dreadful mismanagement of them thereafter is a complete scandal. 

 

Thank goodness for SA and this community! It should be required reading as part of a medical degree!

 

Ripley x

 

[Shebon]

Hi Ripley:

I haven't tried to get the 15 mg. tablet compounded by a pharmacy.  I know that method has worked fairly well too -- I think the advantage of it is that is the same tablet one would normally take just crushed and put into the suspension liquid.  That must be what you are doing in your taper?  Compounding can be pricey but if it works, it's so worth it.  

 

This week has been problematic for my sleep.  I get 6-7 hrs. on a good nite but around 5 hrs. on a not so good nite.  I think I will need to discontinue my tea after dinner as even that may be revving things up.  

 

Slow and steady is the way to win this race.  I remember looking at Dalsaan's posts a long time back.  She tapered 7.5 mg. mirt over a 3 year period and I think came off fairly in good shape.  I want to be in good shape when I get off as I don't ever want to do this again.  I'm sure you feel the same way -- each taper try can be an experiment.

 

Stay well, well,

Shebon

[Ripley]

Hi Shebon

 

Thanks for that; I've had a look at Dalsaan's post. Also, Santino and Budhamama have tapered mirtazapine successfully so worth a look. 

 

I'm sorry you've had a problematic week in terms of sleep although 5 hours is not too bad. I wonder what's in your tea that might cause this, as I know it has chamomile etc... But it's certainly worth eliminating to see if it helps. To borrow, and slightly change, a saying attributed to Kate Moss: "Nothing tastes as good as sleep feels"! I remind myself of this when I want to eat more chocolate

 

Best

Ripley 

[Shebon]

Hi Ripley:

 

Last year I was taking sniffs of Lavender oil around 10 p.m. and slept well every nite.  Then about 60 days into that, I had zero sleep nites (even with my usual 3.75 mg. dose of mirt).  I thought what the heck?

 

So I began my research into Lavender and apparently, it binds to the same receptors as an anti-depressant.  So, over time, it was actually binding first to the receptors that the mirt needed to bind to (in other words, displaced the mirt).  I stopped the lavender and things evened out but it took awhile for that to happen.  I think chamomile might do the same thing, so I will discontinue the tea altogether for now.  Geez, so much we do not know about this stuff.  

 

Yep, I think that saying by Kate Moss is spot on.....I wish I could  press a button and get instant sleep at nite😀.

 

I followed Dalsaan, Santino and Buddhamama's postings too.  Buddhamama is now off and did a slow taper and doing quite well.  As well as Dalsaan and Santino too.  That could be us??

 

This week, I will take things down to 2.11 mg. mirt -- almost at the half-way bench mark.  

 

How have things been with you?  Do you feel stable after your reductions?  

 

Cheers,

Shebon

[Ripley]

Hi Shebon

 

That's interesting about lavender but it's worrying, as you say, how much we don't know about this stuff and how much is learned the hard way. I do worry about the long-term ramifications or in the nearer-term needing to have a general anaesthetic or even antibiotics. It's frustrating how slow we have to go to remove these awful chemicals from our systems. But slowly does it. 

 

I feel ok thank you and have been sleeping fine. I'm hoping my wobble was largely psychological. We'll see. Have you noticed an improvement yet without the tea? Are you at 2.11mg every night now?

 

(Btw, Kate Moss said "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" apparently ) 

 

Best

Ripley

 

[Shebon]

Hi Ripley:

 

Checking in with you -- how are you doing thus far?  Are you getting your "taper legs" on solid ground?  

 

I think a good solid, slow taper is the best way to get off mirt.  Anyway, I am at 2.11 as of last week and things are going well.  Some weirds things that come and go like a "floaty boaty" feeling and some headaches.  

 

Summer is in full swing and the pandemic is making it easier to taper -- I always resisted before as I had too many commitments and didn't want to miss anything.  Now, I can see I should have started regardless.😜

 

Cheers,

Shebon

[Malbec37]

On 6/7/2020 at 11:07 PM, Shebon said:

I haven't tried to get the 15 mg. tablet compounded by a pharmacy.  I know that method has worked fairly well too -- I think the advantage of it is that is the same tablet one would normally take just crushed and put into the suspension liquid.  That must be what you are doing in your taper?  Compounding can be pricey but if it works, it's so worth it.  

 

 @ShebonHi how you doing? I've been reading these posts and wondered whether you can't get hold of the actual liquid mirtazapine that is manufactured? I know it's made here in the UK (You're in USA right?) by Rosemont pharmaceuticals and I have managed to get my doctor to prescribe it. It wasn't easy though....my previous practice were resistant due to cost so I tracked down my old GP who I had a good relationship with, switched practices again, and then asked him for the liquid which he has prescribed me! I hope I can tolerate it well so that I can do my taper from 15 to 0 using only this...I am fortunate to get the prescription 

 

@RipleyHope you're doing well friend? Sending best wishes with your taper journey and thanks for commenting on my posts

[Shebon]

Hi Malbec:

 

To get liquid Mirt, one would have to have it done with a compounding pharmacy, and that is all out of pocket expenses here in the US.  But some have taken their tablets to the compounding pharmacy and have them crushed into the liquid form and tapered down using that method.   I have thought about doing that but so far, things have gone better than expected with adding 1/2 of the usual dose into the schedule with consecutive nites.  

 

Do you feel stabilized now?  You have done very well to get to 15 mg. from 30 mg.  So you are on your way!  As I mentioned to Ripley, after a few times reducing and getting used to the various symptoms, one feels more aware and certain that the symptoms can be tolerated and the taper continued.  Do you feel pretty good at 15 mg. now?  

 

I am pleased that as I reduced my dose, my sleep is really good on most nites.  Mirt can be stimulating to the CNS and so it takes awhile for the brain to settle into a lower dose.  

 

Hope you are enjoying summer where you are in spite of the pandemic.  

Take good care,

Shebon😷😷

[Malbec37]

Hi Shebon

 

Good to hear back. Yes I do feel overall pretty good on 15mg but had some trouble recently when I changed brand of the 15mg pill and that completely destabilised me again and I felt awful for a few days and I ended up getting back on the old brand again and last 2 days have felt much better thankfully!

 

I think I'll give it at least 2-3 more weeks on the pill then I'll start the gradual transfer over to the liquid form that I now have the prescription for...need to really think it through and do it from as stable a place as possible. 

 

Thankyou yes I am on my way and when I am settled on 15mg liquid then I will reduce probably by 10% and go from there

 

Sometimes I dream that there is a quicker way to get off the mertazapine...like some days I speak to friends and they talk about different psychadelics and plant medicines that can detoxify the body and that they could help to get off quicker....but in all honesty from what I have experienced so far I think the only way to win this race is slow and steady with a lot of patience and courage to endure the difficult days...what do you think??

[Ripley]

Hi Shebon and Malbec

 

Thank you for asking after me. Malbec, I'm pleased you're feeling better after your brand switch. I really don't think you should consider psychedelics or plant medicines to get off mirt. quicker. I believe it takes a long time because our brains need to readjust and make changes. A 'detox' doesn't change the time our brains need and possibly introduces instability. I wish there were a quicker way my friend! We would all do it!

 

Shebon, congratulations on being down to 2.11mg. I'm pleased your method is working well and your sleep is generally good! Perhaps when you feel "floaty boaty" and have headaches you could hold for a little bit longer? 

 

I don't have any updates on my tapering I'm afraid as I've been holding. I had a couple of slightly stressful days recently which caused me (total) insomnia the night before. I'm realising my sleep is incredibly sensitive to psychological stressors. It's a lot more fragile than it used to be/should be, despite being generally good when I'm not under stress! I don't know if anybody else finds this or if it improves? Anyway, I hope to have more to report in a few weeks when I've got going again. 

 

In the meantime, wishing you well and sending hugs,

Ripley 

[Malbec37]

@Ripley thanks for your response. 

 

3 hours ago, Ripley said:

Thank you for asking after me. Malbec, I'm pleased you're feeling better after your brand switch. I really don't think you should consider psychedelics or plant medicines to get off mirt. quicker. I believe it takes a long time because our brains need to readjust and make changes. A 'detox' doesn't change the time our brains need and possibly introduces instability. I wish there were a quicker way my friend! We would all do it!

 

Yes I'm with you 100%...it makes total sense and it is my experience so far...people that try to tell me that plant medicines can heal me so quickly don't understand what we're going through, they cannot compare because they haven't had this experience and it is true that the brain needs a LOT of time to readjust and to heal and that there are no shortcuts.  It think I just needed to hear it because I do get told this sometimes and part of me deeply wishes it to be true (as you say)...but the reality is that it's not and we have to go right through the middle of this experience with humility, courage, acceptance and patience.

 

It does seem that mirtazapine is unfortunately one of the very hardest AD's to get off but that is our challenge and we will be more resilient than ever because of it. Life can be so demanding at times without withdrawal and then you throw this on top and it's wow...just insane! But we are finding a way each time and learning what we need to learn 

 

3 hours ago, Ripley said:

I don't have any updates on my tapering I'm afraid as I've been holding.

 

Don't be hard on yourself for holding...we have no expectations, we know what it's like...you're listening to your body which is so key...when we're in WD then yes any kind of stress can affect us more so we have to navigate even more carefully and if that means holding longer then holding longer is what we must do 

 

Take care and stay connected 

[Shebon]

Ripley: 

Funny you should mention that stress and all out insomnia go hand in hand during and after a taper.  I can get stressed out from TV shows and had to quit watching "Outlander" as I had a sleepless nite after one, very violent episode.  It was the same thing during my benzo taper too.  Our sensitivity is over the top and that includes supplements too.  We have a fragile CNS that needs to babied.  

 

Malbec:

I hope your switch to liquid mirt goes well for you.  I know that compounded liquid assures that you have the same stuff to take as before.  Even a change in brand can call for unwanted symptoms with this stuff.  Glad you are feeling more stabilized now....

 

I am doing fairly well with 2 weeks in to the recent reduction to 2.11 mg.  Next reduction will be to 50% of starting dose (1.87 mg.) so I will be a happy camper to reach that milestone.  

 

Enjoy these summer days!🤓😎

Cheers,

Shebon

[ChessieCat]

  

6 minutes ago, Ripley said:

Morning @Malbec37

 

I hope you're doing ok? I have a quick question about something you've also experienced.

 

I've recently been waking at 4.30am and been unable to get back to sleep again. (Usually, I'd be out until 7ish and then struggle to get up!) I know you had the same problem a few weeks ago and you said you took "a pretty high dose of Vit. C" before bed, which did the trick! I wondered how much you took and if you had any more details you could give me please? 

 

Perhaps it's a "cortisol spike" but I don't feel particularly anxious then - just disappointed it's so early! Did you feel anxious? Are you sleeping ok now?

 

I was really hoping to get back on my taper this week so I'm frustrated this new problem or wave has cropped up. I hope I can solve it like you did.

 

Hope things are going well with you. Have you started your taper over to the liquid?

 

Best wishes

Ripley x

 

When introducing anything new it is best to only make one change at a time and also start with a small amount to see how you respond.

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

vitamin-c-ascorbic-acid-or-ascorbate

 

There are some mentions of vitamin c in this topic.  early-morning-waking-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike

 

Search results in that topic:  search/?q=vitamin c&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=17471

 

 

[juneight]

Hi Ripley,

As i see, SA forums are not easier to use than BB. But of course, it contains more useful information about ADs, just to need reorganized.

BTW, i dont want to use my thread anymore. If you accept, i want to hog your and some other remeron users page:)

[Ripley]

Thank you @ChessieCat for the links and advice.

 

Hi @Juneight, I see that you're making small reductions of 0.15mg every week or two. I'm planning to do this also. How are you finding it? Do you have many withdrawal symptoms going at this pace? How is your sleep? 

 

Best wishes

Ripley

[juneight]

I can clearly say that, i have had approximately no sxs at this pace except for anxiety. My sleep is very well, no nausea has been app. for 5 months, some restless legs for one day,some mild depression for some days. I have some brain fog that i think it is because of using remeron not tapering. On the contrary, i am thinking to go on monthly cuts. Because body needs to get stabilization. One of my friend push 0.15/3 days, but it is too harsh and i think it ll catchp up at some point. Apart from that, I have cruel anxiety which i think it is because of my past medication. I have hold it for 5 months, then seeing no improvement i decided  to push it in February, but i am here got stuck with a severe anx. wave which ll pass i hope . This is my story. Pleased to meet you...

[Ripley]

Hi Juneight

 

Thank you for your reply. I'm really pleased to hear you don't have side effects and are sleeping well at this pace! Are you thinking of upping to 10% cuts monthly? 

 

I'm sorry you're suffering prolonged anxiety. Take a look at the links ChessieCat has posted above on Vitamin C. A lot of people say it has really helped with their anxiety! I'll be giving it a go myself.

 

Best wishes

Ripley 

[juneight]

Ok. I will read it.

Anx. is awful. If this passes in short time, i ll try 6or 7percent, not even 10. A friend of mine from BB, whose name is Dave, have declared that sxs ramp up at 1 one week, then appear at 2 week, then disappear at 3 or 4 week. This does make sense. Because making cut while wding isnt conscious to me. As i said i didnt take too much sxs at this pace, but anx. is enough for me to refuse that shape. He completed his taper in 5 years, but he had prior benzo wd. On the contrary Erin Green completed his taper weekly. I made a simple account, going monthly 0.30monthly to 2 mg will take 2 years. Then 0.1 monthly will take app. 1 additional year. But being functional is essential to me. If the things go easy, i may take the things faster. Now i have a harsh wave to get through...

[Ripley]

Hi @Juneight

 

I remember seeing a post somewhere from a member called Nipsu, who said that his anxiety noticeably decreased as his dose of mirtazapine decreased. He is pretty low now like 1.5mg. I hope you can take encouragement from this. Hopefully your anxiety will improve as your taper progresses.

 

Best wishes

Ripley 

[Ripley]

Hi there

 

I just wanted to post a quick update. I'm currently at 6.9mg and have been reducing by 0.15mg decrements, which I'm pleased to say have been very manageable. I may lose a couple of hours sleep the first night of a drop but after that it reverts back to usually very good nights of 7-8+ hours sleep. I do find I struggle to get up in the morning and can have low energy in the day, which I'm hoping will improve as I reduce the dose. (Although perhaps the sedative effect will increase for a while as the dose gets lower? When i was much lower before, i still remember struggling in the mornings!)

 

My aim is to carry on with 0.15mg weekly drops for a while with a hold after a few drops. As I get lower, I will need to extend the length of time between drops so I don't exceed 10% in 4 weeks. I sometimes feel despondent at the slow pace and length of time I will need to be on Mirtazapine but I know there isn't really a way around that

 

So far, I've held each drop for longer than a week because I've had the occasional zero night of insomnia. These aren't related to the reductions but more to my sleep being very 'sensitive', for example a group Zoom call in the evening kept me awake all night or even getting up to go to the bathroom at the 'wrong' moment can keep me awake all night! It can be very frustrating! It feels like I have one chance at night to fall asleep and if I mess it up that's it! (Has anyone else had this?) The good news is that these things can usually be avoided now I understand them. But I hope my sleep becomes less sensitive in time. 

 

So that's me! This whole business has been at the forefront of my mind since January when everything imploded. I'm hoping now to put it more to the back of my mind as I just plod along making these slow reductions. 

 

Thanks for reading my rather long post. Wishing good health and recovery to everyone.

 

Rx

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Ripley said:

I sometimes feel despondent at the slow pace and length of time I will need to be on Mirtazapine but I know there isn't really a way around that

 

Yes, been there, felt that on many occasions.  That's what I have found helpful being part of this forum.  Getting encouragement from other members when I feel impatient and frustrated with the slowness of this whole process.  I find it helps to remind myself that it is my brain which needs the drug, not me personally being reliant on it.

 

1 hour ago, Ripley said:

I'm hoping now to put it more to the back of my mind as I just plod along making these slow reductions.

 

And that's the best way to do it.  One foot in front of the other will get us to the finish line eventually.  I found that the longer I tapered the more it just became part of my regular routine and quite often I am surprised when I realise it's time to reduce my dose again.  I started my taper in October 2015 and I've still got another year to go.  But I'd rather do it the cautious way rather than be gung ho and risk wasting all the time, effort and money that I've put into getting this far and causing issues.  The withdrawal symptoms that had me find SA have actually ended up being a blessing because it reminds me that I do need to be patient and like you said, just plod along.

 

  

1 hour ago, Ripley said:

The good news is that these things can usually be avoided now I understand them.

 

That's good that you have picked up the cause/s.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by ChessieCat

[juneight]

hi Ripley. my main problem is by far still anxiety. it is hellish somedays in this term. so i cant even think starting tapering.i think it is a true behaviour, but i also feel despodent and how to tackle this process. thankfully, i dont tremble but sometimes i want to scream. do you think holding is conscious in spite of one but big sx(anx.)

 

@CheshireCat i should be functional due to worklife. so i cant push it, but i am very very frustrated. continuous questions on bad days upon worsening or tapering. if i can tackle this hard anxiety wave, i am sure i can tackle any. i dont understand one can suffer straight 14 months after some short term drugs. It has been 14 months and it has been 12 months since starting remeron.There is no persistent issues apart from anxiety.It should settle down now.I havent made dramatic changes for 9 months and holded 5 months at the start. Have you lived such kind of big anxiety term and have you pushed it in spite of only one sx?

 

x

[Malbec37]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:24 AM, Ripley said:

I just wanted to post a quick update. I'm currently at 6.9mg and have been reducing by 0.15mg decrements, which I'm pleased to say have been very manageable. I may lose a couple of hours sleep the first night of a drop but after that it reverts back to usually very good nights of 7-8+ hours sleep. I do find I struggle to get up in the morning and can have low energy in the day, which I'm hoping will improve as I reduce the dose. (Although perhaps the sedative effect will increase for a while as the dose gets lower? When i was much lower before, i still remember struggling in the mornings!)

 Hey @Ripley you’re doing really well! It might seem like it’s taking too long but you’re going in the right direction and your body can cope with it which is key...WD symptoms are the worst and to be avoided as far as possible 

 

I think getting off mert is one of the toughest experiences but it can be done with a lot of patience and persistence 

 

are you doing the Brass monkey sliding scale?

 

I am finding that my CNS responds best to no extra additions so I’ve even dispensed with the magnesium for now. Just good while food diet and exercise, time in nature seems to work for me 

 

I’ll soon be joining you in going down again 

 

Malbec 

[Ripley]

Hi there

 

I just thought I'd post an update and see if there was any advice for me. Last night I made a reduction from 6.75mg to 6.6mg and had a night of total insomnia, a 'zero night'. Although, I think I probably timed it badly as my period is due any day and I've noticed it is more painful and sleep is often disrupted by it since I've been tapering, so I was probably stupid to reduce. I'm thinking it's probably best to go back up to 6.75mg for a while longer?

 

In general, I find the zero nights still happen quite frequently and I usually find some explanation for them. But they're getting very wearing and sometimes happen weekly, sometimes every few weeks. I always feel I've caused them somehow but maybe they're just waves? I'm dreading the clocks changing in the autumn as going to bed outside my half hour window seems to be enough to keep me awake all night! I'm feeling fed up and tired. After a zero night, I often sleep worse for a while until things settle again. I'm hoping my sleep will get more robust as time passes as I don't fancy this problem for life. 

 

Interestingly, Mirtazapine doesn't seem to have any sedating powers with me. If I'm struggling to sleep, Mirt won't help. However, if I manage to sleep then Mirt makes it very difficult for me to get up in the morning and wake up. It only seems to sedate me after I've fallen asleep! I dont know if others have had this or why this might be? I just though I'd share it anyway. (So Mirt doesn't help me sleep but if I don't take it, it will stop me sleeping. How fabulous!)

 

Anyway, that's all for now. I think of other SA souls often and how they're struggling and overcoming challenges every day and I'm very grateful for this site.

 

Best wishes

Ripley

[ChessieCat]

14 hours ago, Ripley said:

had a night of total insomnia, a 'zero night'. Although, I think I probably timed it badly as my period is due any day and I've noticed it is more painful and sleep is often disrupted by it since I've been tapering, so I was probably stupid to reduce. I'm thinking it's probably best to go back up to 6.75mg for a while longer?

 

I time my taper reductions around my schedule, ie I reduce on Saturdays so that it doesn't coincide with working.  I'm post menopause so I don't have to take that into consideration.

 

It's up to you whether you updose.  You've only had one night of insomnia which may not be related to the reduction.  It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Next month I suggest that you hold off until after your period has arrived before you make the reduction and then time your reductions around your cycle.