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Iman: weaning off nortriptyline, withdrawal battlefield


Iman

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Hello to all. Please accept my most sincere greetings. I know that all of us here are after a better life and the fact that all of us have ended up here by each other's side under one single umbrella means we all have what it takes to build a better more robust life. We are a precious community giving each other hope, helping hands and the necessary incentive and energy to carry on and reach the finish line with flying colors. We will all make it sooner or later.

 

I for one have come into grips with weaning off of Nortriptyline. After almost 2 years of being on the drug for what initially was diagnosed as depression and anxiety, I recently decided to come off it. From what I had gathered mainly through surfing different websites and reading stories of struggles with antidepressants, I was confident that I my tapering has to happen garadually and smoothly, so distressing i was never instructed by my psychiatrist nor my psychologist about the importance and necessity of slow tapering. My maintenance dose was 100 mg for a year and half, then I went on a withdrawing process. I followed the famous 10 perecnt reduction for every 2 weeks. After almost 3 months, I'm now on 25 mg. I exeperienced a wide ranges of symptoms most notably tingling, paresthasia, insomnia and blurry and at times colorless vision on my right eye. Symtoms have become tougher these last steps leaving me with 2 major problems: 1. Some of my symtoms are so persistent and won't just go away namely tingling and prickling on my body and my declining vision quality with colors looking so drab and lifeless. I'm seriously afraid of continuing my taper as i feel this may deteriorate my current condition eventually leaving me with unstoppable poor vision quality as well as persistent paresthasia. 2. I live in Iran and the lowest-dose pills are 10 mg which are extremly small, the best I could do was to cut them into halves using a pill cutter with extreme difficulty. Now that I'm down to 10 percent of 25 mg, I need 2.5 mg pieces which is almost impossible to get. I'm stuck at this phase and I need some real help and advice from my esteemed co-combatants. I thank each and every one of you up front for helping me out.

Good luck on your evetually brilliant taper journey.

Edited by Shep
added username to title

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Moderator

Welcome to SA, Iman.

 

You are tapering twice as fast as we recommend, which explains the withdrawal symptoms you're experiencing.  We recommend tapering no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

So that you have a better idea of what you're experiencing, here is some information on withdrawal and healing.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF)

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Since you have tapered so fast, you need to hold at 25mg and stop your taper for at least three months to let your central nervous system stabilize. Over the time you've been tapering symptoms have built up and built up and now you need to let your system catch up with the changes.

 

I understand the difficulty of dealing with small doses needed for a taper.  Fortunately, nortriptyline is soluble in water, which allows you to make your own liquid nortriptilyline and avoid dealing with the impossible little pieces of pill.  The following link is specifically about tapering nortriptyline.  However, you won't be tapering for a few months until your system stabilizes.

 

Tips for tapering off nortriptyline 

 

Pay special attention to this section in the link:

 

Make a nortriptyline liquid yourself from tablets or capsules

Nortriptyline is soluble in water. See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

Use an oral syringe to precisely measure out doses as small as .01mg.

 

You may want to updose/reinstate a small increase in your dosage.  Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose.  It is best to reinstate as soon as possible after withdrawal symptoms occur. We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  These drugs are strong, and.your system has become sensitized and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain and can cause you become more unstable.   Then, once you've stabilized on the increased dosage, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.   Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

If you decide to updose, I suggest a 5mg increase, making your new dose 30mg.  I would cut one-half of your 10mg pill rather than making a liquid so that there are fewer variables.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

I know this is a lot of new information.  Please take your time reading the links and don't hesitate to ask questions.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Oct 13: 8.1 mg 

Taper is 56.8% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Dear Gridely

 

Your thorough explanation was of tremendous help to me, so eye-opening and insightful. I now seem to have a clearcut plan ahead of me thanks to the tips and tricks you kindly shared. I guess my best bet will be reinstatement and an updose of 5mg back to 30 mg as you suggested. I'll apply all your instructions and just can't thank you enough for taking the time and being this much helpful. I owe you big time.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • 2 months later...

Weaning off nortriptyline, hypnic jerks

 

Hello everyone

Hope you are all doing fine and are staying safe from the condounded covid 19 virus.

 

My trip down the road of nortriptyline has been quite a eerie one. I was first perscribed the pill for my vestibular vertigo almost 2 and a half years ago which at the time found it the scariest experience of my life constantly referring to it as "death vertigo". However, the horrible withdrawal effects i experienced with pamelor made me think twice on my claim about vestibular vertigo being the scariest event of my life. After almost a month of taking 10 mg of Nori, I went for a second visit to my ear doctor and he ordered me to stop taking the 10 mg pill as my symtoms had totally eased off. I did so and stopped taking the apparently small and harmless pill. After day 4, I noticed I was living in hell with quite a few horrifying symptoms flaring up in me: uncontrollable episodes of weeping and crying, cold hands and feet, constant flushing, depressive moods, numerous intrusive and disturbing thoughts, insomnia, night terrors, blurred vision, panic attacks and the list goes on. The symptoms led me to believe that I'd become depressed due to the enormous nervous pressure i was under during my vertigo episodes. So, I decided to pay a visit to my psychiatrist who diagnosed me with depression and panic attacks, once again putting me on Nortriptyline. Like any other antidepressant, I began with a low dose of 10 mg and in a 4-month time span, I increased the dose to 100 which was deemed as the therapeutic dose by my perscriber. I stayed on the dose for almost 4 months during which I noticed creepy things happening to me, the most frightening of which were extreme urinary retention, unsusual weight gain and nightmares. I did quite a research on various websites, read many articles on antidepressants and people's stories of their path on the damned drugs eventually helping to conclude that the harms of such drugs far outweigh their benefits. I began my tapering journey percisely 15 months ago following the "10% golden formula" but made a huge mistake in the mean time, cutting the 10 percent with 2-week intervals which had to be a 4-week one. I mended the process,however, when I was on 50 mg. Eversince, my tapering has been smooth and with few disturbing symptoms. 3 days ago, I cut from 25 to 22.5 mg and I noticed quite a new and bizzare symtom which I'd never encountered before: suddenly jolting awake immediately after falling asleep with a huge amount of fear, now I know it is tecnically called "hypnic jerk". As this is quite new to me and had never occurred during my whole tapering months, I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on this, making it clear whether this is another withdrawal symptom which i need to put up with and will pass or is another medical issue which I have to see to separately. I'd be infinitely grateful for any feedback.

Edited by manymoretodays
added titled, merged from tapering to introduction, title added

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Moderator
manymoretodays

Hi Iman, @Iman

And welcome back.  I moved your post from tapering on back here.  This is your main introduction page, and an excellent place to put your questions, and updates, around your specific case.

 

On 5/1/2020 at 10:16 AM, Iman said:

Eversince, my tapering has been smooth and with few disturbing symptoms. 3 days ago, I cut from 25 to 22.5 mg and I noticed quite a new and bizzare symtom which I'd never encountered before: suddenly jolting awake immediately after falling asleep with a huge amount of fear, now I know it is tecnically called "hypnic jerk". As this is quite new to me and had never occurred during my whole tapering months, I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on this, making it clear whether this is another withdrawal symptom which i need to put up with and will pass or is another medical issue which I have to see to separately. I'd be infinitely grateful for any feedback.

 

Helpful for us will be:  Please put your withdrawal history into your signature

Just follow the instructions ^

 

And that's great that your tapering has been smooth thus far.

 

Here is our topic on:  Hypnic/hypnagogic jerks when falling asleep

Take a look at that topic, and you are welcome to add to that discussion as well.

Yes, I think it's a WD symptom.  Your nervous system is now working to re-establish homeostasis, post the changes that the nortriptyline induced.  This can take some time.  And while these readjustments occur, symptoms occur.

 

Are you experiencing any other WD symptoms?

Are you now tapering by 10% every 4 weeks? 

 

Thanks Iman, and best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. 

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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Hello there Manymoretodays

 

Just can't thank u enough for ur pretty valuable tips and moving me here to stay more relevant to the topic. I can quite connect to your words. Since the beginning of my tapering journey, I've experienced a wide variety of symptoms some of which were quite temporary and short-lived with yet very few lingering to the present and showing almost no sign of abating. The wd symtoms of mine according to order of severity (from most severe to least severe) are as follows: gloomy feelings and extremely intrusive and annoying thoughts, occasional insomnia, derealization and depersonaliziation especially in public places and gatherings, night terrors and nightmares, vivid dreams, racing heart and palpitaion, loud tinnitus on both ears, occasional panic attacks, anxiety attacks with freezing hands and feet and cold sweat, procrastination in fullfilling my plans and aims in life, extreme sensitivity to sound and noise, intolerance and impatience, extreme paresthasia and tingling all over the body, brain zaps, blurred vision and loss of colorfullness of the world around, catasrohphizing, weight loss and uncontrollable weeping and crying episodes. Many of the above-mentioned symtoms usually fade away on day 10 or so of my taper attempt and I'm fully aware I have to put up with them until they go away on their own. Still, few of the symtoms have persisted during all the 1 and half year of my taper journey namely tinnitus, derealization in public places and cold feet and hands with cold sweat all over the body. Hypnic jerk has been quite a new one which I experienced first a few nights ago on my taper from 25 mg to 22.5. I am carefully following the 10% taper every 4 weeks but Nortriptyline has truly taken its toll on me. I hope I can get rid of this poison in body soon.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • 5 months later...

Fluoxetine for the treatment of SSRI discontinuation syndrome

 

Hey everyone,

 

Has anyone ever tried the strategy mentioned in this article for alleviating AD withdrawal? How authentic is this? 

 

https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/11/5/725/968953

 

Check this one out too, it's awesome if true (seems too good to be true to me though)

 

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/ajp.156.4.661a?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub 0pubmed

 

The articles confidently asserts that in their case studies and reports, short-time switch to fluoxetine has been able to fully disappear the discontinuation syndrome and is definetely a solution for the many unsuccessful tapers which often times result in much suffering and pain.

 

I'd infinitely appreciate it if anyone with some solid experience could provide me with some relevant feedback.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Iman: weaning off nortriptyline, withdrawal battlefield
  • Moderator Emeritus

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  I do not provide tapering advice via PM.  Please post questions in your Introduction topic.  Please do not tag me for any reason.  I am an unpaid volunteer and assist members if I am able to and when I have the time.  Thank you for your understanding.

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  • 5 months later...
Posted (edited)

Titled:  Does temperature affect the strength and effectiveness of Nortriptyline tablets

@Iman

 

Hello all

 

Hope u r doing fine. I'm in the middle of tapering nortriptyline and have so far been able to reach 12 or 13 (not quite sure as I get my plus-ten quota from a whole 10 mg pill using a blade so my calculation is only based on visual estimation). It is spring now and the weather here in where live is hardly below 25 centigrade. I've been on this drug for almost the past 4 years. I've noticed a trend here, whenever the weather heats up and goes above 25 which mostly begins from mid spring and continues to a few weeks post-summer, i begin to feel an upsurge in my symptoms with sleep issues being the most noticeable of all (hypnic jerks and insomnia). I wonder if this could be due to heat affecting my medication as I ususally carry the pills with me around when i go to different places due to the time of taking them in the evening at 9.30 pm. I'd be infinitely grateful if u could familiarize me with the best mode of storage under such circumstances as well as enlighten me on whether it is best to keep my tablets in refrigerator on such hot days where there's a possiblity of the pills going bad. Also, i'd appreciate it if u could help me with how to best crush my pills as i'm about to accurately weigh the plus-ten pills i take to avoid unnecessary withdrawal suffering and continue the trend all the way down to zero hopefully.

 

Thanks a billion in advance. 🙏🙏🙏

Edited by manymoretodays
merged to Iman's main Introduction, with @ so member will find the reply to, Added their title question at top

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Moderator
Gridley
Posted (edited)

Welcome to SA, Iman.

 

It is possible the heat is affecting the pills and equally likely that your increased symptoms are due to the effect of such hot temperatures on you.  If you need to take them with you outside the house, take only as many as you need.  For storage, we recommend a cool, dry, dark place in your house.  Does your house have an area that is reasonably cool?  I fear that a refrigerator would be too cold. If so, could you store your pills in a drawer or box there?  Here is some information I found about ideal temperature for storing this drug:

 

Store nortriptyline at room temperature between 68°F and 77°F (20°C and 25°C). Don't store the capsules in moist or damp areas, such as bathrooms.

 

Crushing to powder is much better than cutting with a razor because there is no way to know whether the manufacturer evenly distributes the active ingredient in the pill.  I crushed my Lexapro tablet to fine powder between two spoons, then carefully stirred the powder with a toothpick to distribute the active ingredient.   I weighed my doses using a Gemini-20 digital scale, available on Amazon (if you have Amazon in Iran).

 

I used a small piece of paper to pour the dose into a size 0 or 00 gelatin capsule and stored the extra in another capsule for future

use.

 

Here is a link on tapering nortriptyline.

 

Tips for tapering off nortriptyline 

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Oct 13: 8.1 mg 

Taper is 56.8% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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@Gridley I just can't thank you enough for the invaluable input u kindly offered dear Gridley, it's really helpful. I did as u instructed me to, allocated a box for my tablets making sure each sheet is returned to its exclusive tiny box once I'm done with taking my daily dose. I'm just afraid as the weather is heating up day by day as we approach summer, my pills would be at a great risk of becoming affected by the plus 25 centigrade tempreture, so what I did was to leave the air conditioner of the room where i keep my pills in on, keeping the room at a steady tempreture of 24 degrees. I learned from ur post that it's best for me to crush my pills as I taper to tinier doses and dissolve them in water, stirring them so that the active ingredient would be fairly equally distributed in the liquid. I was wondering whether the shift from solid pills to liquid form would rock my boat in terms of the severity of symptoms. Most my symptoms are controllable and i know how to keep them at bay except for the occasional hypnic jerks, nights with only few hours of sleep and intrusive thoughts. 

 

Thanks again for all ur support and kindness. 🙏🙏🙏

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post

Also, I'd be thankful if u could let me know of the proper mode of crushing pills so that there'd be no mess and little waste in terms of the super tiny powders and particles.

 

Thanks again for everything. 🙏🙏🙏

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
34 minutes ago, Iman said:

I learned from ur post that it's best for me to crush my pills as I taper to tinier doses and dissolve them in water, stirring them so that the active ingredient would be fairly equally distributed in the liquid. I was wondering whether the shift from solid pills to liquid form would rock my boat in terms of the severity of symptoms.

If you want to dissolve the pill in water, this link tells you how.

 

 

Make a nortriptyline liquid yourself from tablets or capsules

Nortriptyline is soluble in water. See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

If you want to continue taking the drug in solid powder form, you can use gelatin capsules and weigh the powder using a Gemini-20 digital scale, available on Amazon.com.

 

If you switch from solid to liquid we recommend a gradual switch, as follows:

 

3/4 dose solid in powder form, 1/4 dose liquid for one week.

1/2, 1/2 for one week

1/4 solid, 3/4 liquid 

all liquid thereafter

 

Do not taper while doing the switch.  You can start your taper after you've completed the switch.

 

I've found the the best way to crush the pills to make powder is between two spoons.  After you've crushed the pill into a fine powder, stir the powder to distribute evenly the active ingredient.  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Oct 13: 8.1 mg 

Taper is 56.8% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

@Gridley thanks a billion dear Gridley. so succinct and indeed practical and helpful. 🙏🙏🙏 I guess my best bet would be to stick to crushing method using spoons as u mentioned and then separating the mg I need from the hopefully evenly stirred powder. I believe this'd involve much less risk when it comes to unwanted symptoms. Just one more thing I have some doubt about is how to separate my desired dose from the whole mass of powder so that there'd be no waste and mess when transferring the amount to the gelatin capsules. Plz forgive me for all the inconvinience I'm putting u into and thanks a billion times. 🙏🙏🙏

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
17 minutes ago, Iman said:

@Gridley thanks a billion dear Gridley. so succinct and indeed practical and helpful. 🙏🙏🙏 I guess my best bet would be to stick to crushing method using spoons as u mentioned and then separating the mg I need from the hopefully evenly stirred powder. I believe this'd involve much less risk when it comes to unwanted symptoms. Just one more thing I have some doubt about is how to separate my desired dose from the whole mass of powder so that there'd be no waste and mess when transferring the amount to the gelatin capsules. Plz forgive me for all the inconvinience I'm putting u into and thanks a billion times. 🙏🙏🙏

It is no inconvenience.  Cut a square piece of paper 7 or 8 centimeters in size.  Bend (not fold) the paper and put the amount of powder you want on the paper.  You can use tweezers to do this.  I don't know if they have Amazon.com in Iran.  Then slowly pour the powder into the open capsule and put the top back on the capsule.  It takes a little practice and you may spill some at first but soon you'll become able to pour the powder with very little if any spilled.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Oct 13: 8.1 mg 

Taper is 56.8% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

@Gridley I just follwed ur instructions dear Gridley using a 0.000 scale and everything went so smoothly although a bit tricky at first. U'r doing me a huge favor guiding me out of the darkest tunnel of my life ever. Apparently, I'm on 12 mg now which means I've followed the 10-perecnt-cut-each-month guideline almost accurately. My biggest problem these days is the recurrence of hypnic jerks which quickly turn into insomnia and reduced sleep. Also, scary thoughts especially images of falling and airplane crash are most dominant both when I'm about to drift off to sleep and when I see bad dreams. I truly hope there's an end to these disturbing symptoms. The weather heating up seems to be not much welcome to my chemically influenced brain. I used to sleep like a log before the God-dammit toxin got into my body. My question is whether the symptoms become less or more intense as I go down to tinier doses? Once again I should thank u and the kind moderators of SA for being such lovely life-saviours. 🙏🙏🙏

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post
  • Moderator
getofflex
10 minutes ago, Iman said:

My question is whether the symptoms become less or more intense as I go down to tinier doses?

I believe the intensity of symptoms is related more to tapering very slowly and gradually, rather than being on smaller doses.   Even at low doses, these drugs have a major effect on us.  Have you seen the SERT Occupancy Study?  Here is the link: 

 

SERT Occupancy Studies

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 '02 - 10 mg;  Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06 

Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg as needed

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

Trazodone nightly, stopped in late 2019

Xanax on occasion, stopped in late 2019

magnesium in small amounts at breakfast, 3 PM 

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, calcium

suppl PM: magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, Estroven, melatonin 2.5 mg

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
13 minutes ago, Iman said:

recurrence of hypnic jerks

Here is a link on hypnic jerks, including some suggestions.

Hypnic / hypnagogic jerks when falling asleep - Symptoms ..

 

13 minutes ago, Iman said:

Also, scary thoughts especially images of falling and airplane crash are most dominant both when I'm about to drift off to sleep and when I see bad dreams.

 

The technique of changing the channel can help with scary thoughts.

"Change the channel" - dealing with cognitive symptoms ...

 

14 minutes ago, Iman said:

My question is whether the symptoms become less or more intense as I go down to tinier doses?

It varies from person to person.  As you can see from this link, even at the very low doses, SERT occupancy remains high, which is why sometimes as you get very low it's a good idea to slow down the taper or hold longer.  The graphs in this topic might help to explain the reason for this:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Oct 13: 8.1 mg 

Taper is 56.8% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

@getofflex thanks a lot for the invaluable input. So, what I gather from ur words is that these symptoms are mostly the actual side effects of the drug itself rather than symptoms of withdrawal from it, right? I had this inkling this might have been so. Hypnic jerks usually hit me hardest when I'm holding for more than a month. Do know what the occupancy rate of nortriptyline on a dose of 10 or so is? This might account for many of my unpredictable symptoms.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post

@Gridley I just can't find the right terms to thank u dear Gridley for ur great support and the totally useful and problem-solving techniques u're kindly sharing with me. Hope I can make it up to u one day.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post

Hello all

 

Hope u r all doing fine and are enjoying ur biggest and longest window ever. I've been on 12 mg of Nori for the past 30 days and was considering my next monthly cut but I'm second-guessing myself as there a few issues i'm facing. I've noticed that after more than 3 years of being on this dirty stuff and almost 2 years of tapering, symptoms of WD during tapers or maybe side effects of the drug itself tend to be a bit tougher in hot months of the year. I also suspect it might the heat influencing the pills leading to such elevation in symptoms. We are in the second month of spring here and the weather is already above 25 (sometimes as hot as 32). Prior to this, my taper from 22.5 to 12 was almost controllable and with very few symptoms. Now things have changed, it takes much longer for me to fall asleep, I get flushing both when I'm awake and especially when I'm about to fall asleep, I either experience hypnic jerks or rush of blood in my chest waking me up right at the moment of transition from wakefullness to sleep not to mention terrible skull headaches i've developed. I also have a huge rush of scary thoughts (mostly graphic and images rather than verbal). Do u think i should head on with my scheduled taper or temporarily put it on hold until autumn arrives. I'd wholeheartedly appreciate any input on this.

 

Thanks

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post

Hello all

 

Hope u r all doing fine and are enjoying ur biggest and longest window ever. I've been on 12 mg of Nori for the past 30 days and was considering my next monthly cut but I'm second-guessing myself as there a few issues i'm facing. I've noticed that after more than 3 years of being on this dirty stuff and almost 2 years of tapering, symptoms of WD during tapers or maybe side effects of the drug itself tend to be a bit tougher in hot months of the year. I also suspect it might the heat influencing the pills leading to such elevation in symptoms. We are in the second month of spring here and the weather is already above 25 (sometimes as hot as 32). Prior to this, my taper from 22.5 to 12 was almost controllable and with very few symptoms. Now things have changed, it takes much longer for me to fall asleep, I get flushing both when I'm awake and especially when I'm about to fall asleep, I either experience hypnic jerks or rush of blood in my chest waking me up right at the moment of transition from wakefullness to sleep not to mention terrible skull headaches i've developed. I also have a huge rush of scary thoughts (mostly graphic and images rather than verbal). Do u think i should head on with my scheduled taper or temporarily put it on hold until autumn arrives. I'd wholeheartedly appreciate any input on this.

 

Thanks

 

@Gridley @ChessieCat

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
7 hours ago, Iman said:

Do u think i should head on with my scheduled taper or temporarily put it on hold until autumn arrives

I would hold at your current dose until autumn arrives.  It's always better to listen to your body rather than a schedule.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Oct 13: 8.1 mg 

Taper is 56.8% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

@Gridley

 

I'm suffering terrible bouts of insomnia. I get adrenaline rush right at the moment of transition to sleep. I'm so desperate. I'm losing my energy so badly.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
5 hours ago, Iman said:

@Gridley

 

I'm suffering terrible bouts of insomnia. I get adrenaline rush right at the moment of transition to sleep. I'm so desperate. I'm losing my energy so badly.

I'm sorry you're suffering from insomnia.  Insomnia is one of the most common withdrawal symptoms.  Here are some links that I hope will help.

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

Tricks and tips to fall asleep faster

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/16/tips-tricks-fall-asleep-faster.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20170216Z1&et_cid=DM133787&et_rid=1889748952

 

This link contains helpful information, including insomnia and also non-drug coping skills.  

 

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Some members have found Melatonin helpful with insomnia.   

 

See Melatonin for sleep   It's best to start at a very low dosage, such as .25mg, and gradually increase if needed to the lowest effective dose.  

 

The following post by one of our moderators contains useful information about insomnia and your attitude about it.

 

 

There is, unfortunately, no "silver bullet" to withdrawal or any of its symptoms, including insomnia.  If there were, SA would be a much smaller site than it is at this point.  Sadly, it continues to grow as more and more people get caught in the psychiatric medication "web."

 

insomnia and disordered sleeping is a hallmark of psychiatric medication withdrawal.  It starts earlier than that with many studies making it clear that SSRIs (and other psych meds) frequently suppress REM sleep for those who take the meds.  https://www.sleepio.com/articles/sleep-aids/antidepressants-and-sleep/  Given this as a backdrop, it should be no surprise that coming off the meds can wreak havoc on sleep.  The good news, however, is that the brain works hard to achieve homeostasis and, all other things being equal, the brain will return to a place where sleep becomes, as it should be, a matter of routine.  How long that takes for any one person is impossible to predict.  

 

So, what do you do?  In no particular order, some of the things to try:
  • Don't place too much significance on sleep.  Rest should be the key and when your body absolutely needs to sleep it will.  The anxiety that comes with lying awake and saying "I must sleep" is far worse than the not sleeping.  It's hard but it can be done.
  • Try a journaling practice before bed -- get out the things that are on your mind and add 3 things you are grateful for from the day
  • Get a sleep ritual in place so that you do the same thing day after day and start to repair your circadian rhythms
  • Take a warm bath with epsom salts few hours before bedtime and add in a cup of chamomile tea
  • Use lavender essential oils in a diffuser at bedtime
  • Exercise early in the day so that you aren't activated near bedtime
  • Get outside and get some sunlight early in the day so that your rhythms are reestablished
  • Make sure you have a consistent bedtime 
  • Try not to be too activated in the couple of hours before bed and, of course, no caffeine
  • Add a meditation practice
  • Try yoga
  • Go for walks in nature
Most insomnia is the result of the body being "hyperstimulated."  It is very hard to calm down an overstimulated body, especially when it is the result of chemical cascades that come as a result of medication use and withdrawal.  But, it can be done to a certain degree and the skills learned will provide valuable as your body improves over time.  

 

From my own perspective, my sleep is still not great, but it it better than it was.  I went through many stretches of 2 or 3 days with zero or an hour or two a night of sleep.  At this point, I have the occasional sleepless night, but most nights I'm good for at least 5 and usually closer to 6 hours.  By "normal" people standards that's not great, but it feels pretty good when compared to 0 or 2-3 hours a night.  As the saying goes, "in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king!"

 

Try not to let it become the dominant factor in your life.  Over time, it will get better and you will heal.  Just do your best to continue to live your life what your brain is repairing itself.
 
 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Oct 13: 8.1 mg 

Taper is 56.8% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • 3 months later...

@Gridley

@Altostrata

hi everyone

I've just started my new batch of Nortriptyline 10 mg from the same manufacturer but with a different LOT aka batch number. I took the new batch tablet last night and couldn't have a wink of sleep. As I've been on the same dose of 10 for almost 2 months now and been feeling and doing pretty steady, I was wondering if this new batch has anything to do with my sudden decline. The previous LOT number on which I was pretty stable was 502 and the new one is 505. I just wouldn't believe even batch numbers from the same manufacturer could have dissimilar effects. I'd appreciate any helpful input. Thanks a billion in advance.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Administrator
Altostrata

We cannot tell what might have caused one night of insomnia. It might have been something other than the new batch. 

 

Were you worrying about the new batch number?

 

There should be no differences between batches of the same drug. The manufacturer will of course run out of a batch over time. They have to continually make new batches. You probably have been getting different batch numbers for years. Is this a generic brand? Is it possible this is a counterfeit batch?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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@Altostrata

Dear Alto

 

Thanks a million for your response. Apparently the batch number was the main culprit. As you said, I found out the new batch numbers have fake ones in their midst accounting for how immediately my body reacted. I went straight to the manufacturing company which cost me a trip to the capital and asked for the batch numbers I had no problems with. As soon as I took the regular batch, my system returned to homeostatis and I could sleep well. now I can hopefully get to back to where I left off taper-wise.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Administrator
Altostrata
16 hours ago, Iman said:

As you said, I found out the new batch numbers have fake ones in their midst accounting for how immediately my body reacted.

 

This is terrible, that the pharmacy gave you a counterfeit drug. Did you talk to them?

 

Good to hear you're better with the real drug.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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@Altostrata

 

Dear Alto

My brain is quick to notice the slightest changes in case of fake or manipulated drugs and immediately shows reaction. I did talk to the pharmacy about this and they were shocked to see how cleanly the fake duplicates are produced and mass distributed. They're now tracing those behind this and will probably sue them soon enough. I've been relatively stable in the current dose of 10 mg. I'm in no hurry to continue my taper and will let my body catch up with the alterations made. How far in terms of years and months do you think i am from reaching the jump-off point?

 

Thanks a billion in advance.

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Administrator
Altostrata

Sorry, I don't know how long it will take you to taper off 10mg nortriptyline, it depends on how your system reacts to dosage reductions.

 

Anyone would have reacted badly to a counterfeit drug. Good for you that you corrected this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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@Altostrata

 

Thanks a billion dear Alto for your life-saving guidance and advice. I hope I can get rid of the poison under supervision, soon. 🙏

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • 1 month later...

@Altostrata @Gridley @brassmonkey

 

Hello all

 

Hope you are in full health and good shape.

I was away from home for 2 days. When i came back I noticed the heat fan in the room where i keep my Nortriptyline pills dry and cold had been automatically turned on. When i checked the pills and the boxes they were in with a thermometer, the centigrade was on 33. Almost 1000 pills of mine were exposed to this tempreture for at least 20 hours. I immediately turned the fan off and set the tempreture back to 25 degress. Do you think my pills have gone bad? Should i stop taking them? This is the obly batch number which agrees to my body and brain so i mad sure to provide a big supply of it for at least the 2 years ahead during which i'll be constantly tapering. One last thing, i've been doing pretty well on this batch number and my tapers have been most convinient. Now i'm in sheer dread. I'd be infinitely grateful like always if u could help me on this.

 

Thanks a billion. 🌷🌹

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

33C is at the upper limits of safe storage and it was a short exposure so there shouldn't be any problems.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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@brassmonkey

 

I just don't know how to thank you dear Brassmonkey. This is such a relief to hear. I was goung through hell with my brain catasrophising constantly. I'd heard terrible things about ADs going bad when exposed to heat eventually losing their potency and effectiveness and given that I've been going smoothly with my taper lately, this was such a blow... just to give an update I'm on 9.5 mg right now and plan to cut down to 9 in a few days. Thanks again for everything. 🙏🌷🌹

-2015 september zoloft (20 mg updosed to 125) plus clonazepam for anxiety and panic attacks

2016 Jan replaced clonazepam with chlorodiazpoxide 20 mg

-2016 April cold turkeyed both after a urinary retention surgery with no withdrawal symptom at all

-2018 Jan perscribed Nortriptyline 10 mg for vestibular vertigo 

-2018 Feb due to the horrible side effects which my psychiatrist took for depression and anxiety, Nortriptyline began to be updosed to reach 100 in June

-2018 Oct noticed I wasexperiencing no pleasure in life and decided to taper(zombie-style kind of life)Tapered to fast to reach 50 mg in 2019 Feb

-Terrible withdrawal symtoms began to creep up, had to updose to 75 in June 2019

-Began to make changes in diet and lifestyle and tapered again to reach 30 by 2020 Jan

-(using Brassmonkey method from here on)By May 2020 reached 22.5 when my whole taper process hit the wall due to infection to God-damned Covid 19. Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper 16 mg in Jan 2021, Jan 2021 to Feb down from 16mg to 14.5mg,Feb to March 13mg,March to July had to hold on 13mg due to being sold counterfeit drugs, took me a while to find out and get a new batch and get back on track again,July to August 11.5 mg,August to Sep 10.5 mg,Sep to Oct 9.5 mg

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  • Mentor

"Late Sep 2020 restarted my taper process using the Brassmonkey 10 percent method and reached 16 mg Jan 20 2020 when I'm writing this now"

 

Hello Friend,

Do you mean 16 mgs Jan. 20th, 2021?

Did you drop from 22.5  to 16 in only the 4 months from Sept. 2020 to Jan. 2021?

 

Can you update Your signature line with the months and days for your dose drops from Jan. 2020 until now?

Having just the exact dates of the past 2 years will help Mentors and Moderators going forward.

Just a line with the month, days and dosages is fine, explanation of why changes were made in that last line of the signature is unnecessary.

 

I left my liquid med in the car for 2 days once in summer when in car temps probably rose to 120.

I disposed of it since, as You, I attempted to get as much as I could for a reserve and didn't want to risk it being compromised

Here it is more tricky since they will only dispose per month what they think you are taking, so as I made drops I just kept getting the same amount refilled.

I can only imagine what would happen if someone here was found in possession of 1,000 pills., Lol.

 

Have a good day!

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs  8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/29/21: 0.20mgs

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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