Yazz: Newbie in need of your guidance

[Yazz]

Hello there , this by far is best blog , I haven't recently deleted all other pages or blogs talking about surviving antidepressants and I'm bound here. I have a daily routine now to read 2 or 3 success stories as a hopeful reminder;) so thank you!!!!

 

I have been off Lexapro and Trintellix for nearly 2 month, after been on them for 6 month only . Still on a low dose of benzo rivotril to help me thru the discontinuation 

 

My story: 

I was an active mom of 4, Life was beautiful till I got a sudden panic attack haven't experienced in 15 years due to a traumatic scene, vulnerable rushed to psych put me on Lexapro for 3 month 20 mg (anxoety decreased by 20% but depression and ahedonia kicked in!!! Was never like that, I would say benzo helped the most, unstoppable apathy and crying) , changed psych told her the Lexapro made me more depressed and flatlined, she tapered me too quickly from 20mg to 5 mg in 4 weeks of Lexapro as well as put me on Trintellix same time going up from 5mg to 20mg ! I crashed !!!!!! All emotional symptoms intensified 10x stronger ! I reinstated back to 10mg Lexapro for about a month then started weaning down to zero in about a month (which I know now was too fast) and weaned off Trintellix too (too fast) . Still taking the benzo though , dosage changes depending on need but never exceeded the max dose. 

 

Now my symptoms are : 

-:compelte Ahedona , lack of zest and zero motivation (unlike the old me completly) 

- sleep.is fine but it's my only escape 

- wake up w dread kind of feeling and anxiety 

- nervous system on edge all the time, relaxation is forgotten word .

- no physical symptoms other than headaches

- ugly intrusive thoughts 

- unstoppable crying spells 

- heightened nervous system 

- constant Fear of Losing Control of myself is haunting me !  

 

What I did : 

journal progress 

acupuncture (helped but only during session)

neurofeedback (same as above)

chiropractor (unuseful)

homeopathy (not useful)

naturopathy : 

take Omega 3 fish oil + b complex + magnesium + used 5htp (got me headaches but no good feelings)

 

Did a hormonal test found my dhea and testosterone is high and ratio of oestrogen and progesterone is not good , doing a neurotransmitters level testing and waiting for results 

 

I feel I'm a different person completely, started to reject driving because I don't want to be alone and still am not happy, seeing my kids and being unable to engage with them is killing me 

 

Questions : 

-I'm confused now whether my symptoms are driving my ugly intrusive thoughts or vice versa ? 

- What to do ? 

- Helpful supplements ? 

- How long from your experience to healing, knowing that I have been on the meds for only 6 month ?.

- Will this traumatic experience continue to haunt me ? 

- Is this fear of losing control normal?

- benzo has been the only calming thing , I know it has it's own withdrawals but I have stopped it a few times haven't felt great wd reaction like with AD . Is it ok to continue just till my nervous system recalibrate and my happinness hormones kick in again or being on the benzo will stop the natural healing to take place ? Trying cbd oil  , nothing close to the effect of a benzo

 

My husband is pushing me to go to a psych again but im battling not to , I just want to want to LIVE again and just have peace of mind and be happy! Help ! 

 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Yazz.  I'm glad you're finding the site helpful. You'llfind the members and moderators here sympathetic and supporting.

 

The symptoms you describe are typical withdrawal symptoms from too-fast tapers of the Lexapro and Trintillix.  We recommend tapering no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

So that you'll have a better understanding of what you're experiencing, here is some information of withdrawal and healing.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF)

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the pattern of healing really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

I'm going to address your questions and points in the order they appear in your post so I'm sure not to miss any.

 

Regarding your symptoms, it's great that your sleep is fine.  Good sleep is a real plus in recovering from these drugs.  

 

Waking up with dread is a typical withdrawal symptom, caused by heightened cortisol surges in the late night and early morning.  

 

Anhedonia is common in withdrawal.  It along with the other withdrawal symptoms will fade in time.

 

Ugly intrusive thoughts, or ruminations, are caused by the withdrawal and not vice-versa.  

 

Crying spells an anxiety are common in WD.

 

You central nervous system is very sensitized and fear of losing control of yourself is natural.  It is one of the saddest effects of withdrawal to not be able to engage with your children.  Many members hav written about this

 

We don't recommend B-complex because it can be to activating (overstimulating) to a sensitized system in withdrawal.  

 

Hypersensitive to B Vitamin or B-Complex  

 

We do not recommend 5htp.  

 

As to your questions:

 

As I said, the intrusive thought are caused by the withdrawal.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous system but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

Regarding healing time, there is no way to predict it.  One month on antidepressants is enough to produce withdrawal.  You should know that doctors don't believe in the existence of prolonged withdrawal from antidepressants.  

 

This traumatic experience in time will fade, but again we can't predict how long it will take.  I can say it will take longer than you would like and that it will often be very frustrating.   In time you will heal.

 

The fear of losing control is normal in withdrawal.  As I said, your system is fighting to regain homeostasis and in the meantime things will often feel very strange.  Fear of driving, fear of being along, fear of social engagements, fear of leaving the house are all normal in withdrawal.

 

The benzo use is something you should be very careful about.  At what dosage are you taking the Rivotril and how often are you taking it?  Yes, benzos work great until they don't. Dependence can result from 2 to 4 weeks of regular use and also from intermittent use.  Once you reach dependence, the benefits you were receiving stop and you're only taking it to stave off withdrawal.  For that reason, it's not going to work to keep taking it until your system recalibrates, since we don't know when that will be.  Once you're dependent, you will have another drug to taper off.  That's what happened to me, and I will be tapering my Ativan once I've finished my Lexapro taper.

 

We don't recommend CBD oil as there hasn't been enough research into its effect on those of us in withdrawal.  

 

Instead of drugs, we recommend using non-drug techniques to cope with withdrawal.  Take a look at the links in the following link and see which you think might be of benefit to you.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

These techniques are helpful for dealing with panic and anxiety:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

If you go to a psychiatrist, he or she will give you more drugs.  That's what they do.  If one thing doesn't work, they will try another, never guessing that switching drugs can cause withdrawal (which as I've said they don't believe exists).  If you have a bad reaction to one thing, they will give you something to counter that and then something to counter that and soon you're on the drug merry-go-round.  I would keep in mind your bad reaction to the Lexapro and Trintillix.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask more questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yazz]

Thank you so much for your reply, I have been using the benzo daily now since June 0.5 Mg up to 1mg a day, ranges. At times when I was no too bad I hadn't used it for 5 days in a row and haven't felt wd from it . 

 

I can't wait for healing ;( 

[Yazz]

Another question about reinstating Trintellix? Is it advisable ? And taper then very slowly. I really don't want to go thru pains of withdrawal all over again but if I taper very very slowly would withdrawal intensity as now still be there ? Also I haven't noticed much benefit from Trintellix but I was at that time taking it with Lexapro which I feel was the evil one which over covered the effect of Trintellix. I don't know what to do just confused . 

 

Shall I reinstate Trintellix or wait this withdrawal out ? 

[Gridley]

4 hours ago, Yazz said:

Shall I reinstate Trintellix or wait this withdrawal out ? 

From your original post, it looks like you had a bad reaction to the Trintellix.  You said, "she tapered me too quickly from 20mg to 5 mg in 4 weeks of Lexapro as well as put me on Trintellix same time going up from 5mg to 20mg ! I crashed !!!!!! All emotional symptoms intensified 10x stronger."

 

Am I correct in reading from that sentence that you feel you had a bad reaction to the Trintillix?  I know it's difficult to figure out what was causing what.  

 

When did you stop the Trintilillix and what dose were you on when you stopped?

 

Reinstatement can sometimes make things better but it can also make things worse.

[Yazz]

Thank you very much for your reply, I feel I'm not alone . I think the bad reaction was mainly from lowering Lexapro at the time she was increasing Trintellix . It's very confusing . Here is my dosage schedule , hope it make a sense: 

 

Lexapro 5 mg (2 days)

Lexapro 10 mg (19 days)

Lexapro 15 mg (8 days) 

Lexapro 20 mg (32 days)

Lexapro 15 mg (3 days- got a bas reaction then reinstated)

Lexapro 20 mg (6 days) 

 

Then decided to switch doctors 

Lexapro 20 mg + Trintellix 5 mg (6 days)

Lexapro 15 mg + Trintellix 10 mg (6 days)

Lexapro 10 mg + Trintellix 15 mg (6 days-started crashing and since then everything became worse and unstable)

Lexapro 5 mg + Trintellix 15 mg (5 days)

Lexapro 10 mg reinst + Trintellix 20 mg (15 days)

Lexapro 10 mg-10% + Trintellix 20 mg (16 days)

Lexapro 10 mg-30% + Trintellix 20 mg (5 days)

Lexapro 5 mg + Trintellix 20 mg (14 days)

Lexapro 5 mg-10% + Trintellix 20 mg (5 days)

Lexapro 5 mg-10% + Trintellix 20 mg-10%(5 days)

Lexapro 2.5 Mg + Trintellix 15 mg (2 days)

Trintellix alone 15 mg (2 days) 

Trintellix alone 10 mg (5 days)

Trintellix alone 5 mg (2 days)

Trintellix alone 2.5 mg (7 days) 

 

Benzo  (Rovotril) still on from day 1 till now ranging from 0.5 Mg to 1.5 mg  

 

As you can tell my brain probably got messed up from playing w doses and super fast taper .  

Edited February 5, 2020 by Yazz
Add a piece of info

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Yazz said:

rintellix alone 2.5 mg (7 days)

What was the date of your last dose of Trintillix?

[Yazz]

Last dose of Lexapro 2-Dec-2019

Last dose of Trintellix 23-Dec-2019

Edited February 6, 2020 by Yazz
Adding dates

[Gridley]

9 hours ago, Yazz said:

Last dose of Trintellix 23-Dec-2019

Are your symptoms improving at all?  If so, I wouldn't reinstate trintillix.  If you are getting worse, you could reinstate 0.5mg--no more.  These drugs are strong and your system has become somewhat accustomed to the absence of the drug.  If you reinstate too much it could overwhelm your system.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

This link is about trintillix and how to get the small dose you'll need to reinstate.

 

Tips for tapering off Trintellix (vortioxetine), previously called Brintellix

 

 

 

[Yazz]

Thank you Gridley, the symptoms are same not getting better, heart felt doom like feeling and ahedonia and now new physical symptoms like flu like and ache in heart area. Chunck in throat . 

 

A question is that pills here are in 10 mg form, then I have to crush them ?  

[Gridley]

8 minutes ago, Yazz said:

 

A question is that pills here are in 10 mg form, then I have to crush them ?  

 

The information below is from the link I posted earlier, "Tips for tapering off Trintillex."  Basically, you have three choices.

 

1. You can crush the 10mg pill into powder and use a digital scale to weigh to get 1mg.  The instructions are here:

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

You will need a digital scale for this.  Many members use the AWS Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon.com.  I don't know if you have Amazon in UAE.

 

The GEMINI-20 Scale

 

2.  The second choice is to make your own liquid.  The instructions are here.

Make your own vortioxetine liquid

The active ingredient in the tablets, vortioxetine, is slightly soluble in water. This means you or a compounding pharmacy can make a liquid suspension from vortioxetine, see How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

• A liquid will be a suspension, not a consistent or "homeogenous" solution. 
• Vortioxetine is highly soluble in ethanol and a substance called DMSO, as are many psycho-neuro-active prescription medications. Ethanol is readily available in vodka. You can get oral or medical grade DMSO from many sources. If you have questions about this, feel free to post them in this topic.

3. The third choice is to use a compounding pharmacy.

Have a compounding pharmacy make custom capsule dosages or a liquid or for tapering
Compounding pharmacies can make capsules of the drug in any dosage or a liquid from the tablets. You will need a prescription written for the custom compound. The only drawback is this can be expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yazz]

Gridley, can I ask you about when you started feeling back to normal ? The ahedonia and deep sinking feeling for you how did it go by time ? Does this slow tapering bring you back to your self, feeling joy and peace of mind?

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, Yazz said:

Gridley, can I ask you about when you started feeling back to normal ? The ahedonia and deep sinking feeling for you how did it go by time ? Does this slow tapering bring you back to your self, feeling joy and peace of mind?

 

Yazz, it is different for everyone.  I'm not feeling back to normal but I'm better than I was.  The slow tapering does make things much better and will bring back joy and peace of mind, but the changes are very gradual and subtle.  As you taper lower, you might realize one day that you feel better than you did 6 months before.  The progress is not linear, things get better, then they get worse for a while, but the general direction is upward toward the better.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

I still have the anhedonia but I do feel feelings of enjoyment from time to time.  So that's an improvement.  As I said, it's different for everyone.  I'm on three drugs and all of them for a long time (34 years for the Imipramine), so I'm being affected by all of them.  Your situation is much simpler, and that's a good thing for you.  Also, if I'm not mistaken you are much younger than I, and that's a big help in dealing.

[Yazz]

Wishing you fast recovery ! U have been great help . 

[Yazz]

Hey there Gridley , do you reccomend I start coming off the benzo now ? I haven't still found relief yet from ssri withdrawal . But so confused now if the benzo maybe causing some of the symptoms. Also the funny thing is that I did a neurotransmitter level test , my serotonin was high and dopamine and gaba with in level , the  why am.i feeling this intense depression and anxiety . Thankyou in advance. 

[Gridley]

39 minutes ago, Yazz said:

do you reccomend I start coming off the benzo now ? I haven't still found relief yet from ssri withdrawal . But so confused now if the benzo maybe causing some of the symptoms. Also the funny thing is that I did a neurotransmitter level test , my serotonin was high and dopamine and gaba with in level , the  why am.i feeling this intense depression and anxiety .

If I understand correctly, you've been taking the Benzodiazepine daily since June, 0.5mg to 1mg.   If you wanted to, you could start tapering at no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  It is very important that you taper slowly and that you do not stop suddenly (cold turkey).  That can be very dangerous.  If you've been taking 1mg at least 50% of the time, I would start the taper from 1mg.  Do you have a way to measure the 10% decrease accurately?  You could use a digital scale, weigh the pill and then shave off 10% of the weight.

 

Here is information on using a scale

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

Many members use the AWS Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon.com

 

The GEMINI-20 Scale

 

Those neurotransmitter tests don't really tell you anything about withdrawal, which is what is causing your depression and anxiety.  You will heal, but it's going to take some time.