emerik: SSRIs error, withdrawal and back on it!

[emerik]

1 minute ago, mstimc said:

 

I think anything that helps you recover is worth it.  If you spend a few months at your parents' house to successfully recover, what's that compared to the rest of your life?

i guess your right, it would probably isolate myself more though, 
suburb, not going outside the house, and possibly put a hold on my relationship with my partner, as we move here together and always did
just sounding like im worrying for nothing over stuff.

[mstimc]

7 minutes ago, emerik said:

i guess your right, it would probably isolate myself more though, 
suburb, not going outside the house, and possibly put a hold on my relationship with my partner, as we move here together and always did
just sounding like im worrying for nothing over stuff.

Yeah, take it one day at a time....June is a long way off...

[emerik]

the way i can explain my symptoms right now is;

constant thoughts every 30 seconds about fear or anything in general (my health, sleep, staying here) and constantly checking myself 
, its hard trying to accept them instant of fighting them

[emerik]

is there any story of peoples reinstating ssris after CT or discontinuing quickly like i did here?

[lxjuice]

2 hours ago, emerik said:

another thing always in the back of my mind
is going back home, canada  (just moved to germany with my partner for oct-june, so im going back june anyway)
to my parents house while i recuperate, but this does seem like giving up on life to me and a step backward maybe?
what are your thoughts?

 

Is going back to the place and people you grew up with who are very likely to have played a role in developing your mental health problems really a good idea?

Time and time I see people going back to their parents expecting some kind of break from their problems. It doesn't happen.

[emerik]

checked in a night of 0 sleep again.

this is starting to affect my day to day too much. and i have dark thoughts at night, nothing serious but still.

 

i know this is a off medications forum

but im thinking of going daily zopiclone for a while as it give me sleep and i feel

way better the next day.

[emerik]

or a low dose of seroquel might be better while i adjust to stabilize?

the sleepless nights make it hard and put me into a manic state

[emerik]

very hard day already in the morning, partner leaving for a few days and feeling so anxious about everything.

Started to doubt i should continue on 20mg and try to taper down, i know Gridley said very important to stay on the same dose at the moment.
but i just wanted to hear other opinions?

thanks

[mstimc]

15 hours ago, emerik said:

the way i can explain my symptoms right now is;

constant thoughts every 30 seconds about fear or anything in general (my health, sleep, staying here) and constantly checking myself 
, its hard trying to accept them instant of fighting them

You're scanning--your anxiety is making you look for reasons to feel anxious.  As you said, you're constantly checking yourself; once you take care of one issue your brain starts looking for a new one.  You need to work on breaking that chain.  Try to find something that diverts your thoughts for a while and give yourself a chance to rest mentally and physically.  Do you have any activities or hobbies you enjoy?

 

Also, don't try to fight the feelings--that just makes the anxiety worse.  Accept them as physical sensations, like an itch, but try not to attach any value to them.  Try to tell yourself "I'm having anxious thoughts and feelings.  I don't have to do anything about them.  They will eventually pass if I accept my feelings and get on with my day."

Edited February 9, 2020 by mstimc

[emerik]

Just now, mstimc said:

You're scanning--your anxiety is making you look for reasons to feel anxious.  As you said, you're constantly checking yourself; once you take care of one issue your brain starts looking for a new one.  You need to work on breaking that chain.  Try to find something that diverts your thoughts for a while and give yourself a chance to rest mentally and physically.  Do you have any activities or hobbies you enjoy?

i know, but it seem like my head do it automatically.
yes, climbing and drawing, but my mind is so busy that i cant seem to focus at all.
i had to stop working also which is ok for me just boring.

[mstimc]

1 minute ago, emerik said:

i know, but it seem like my head do it automatically.
yes, climbing and drawing, but my mind is so busy that i cant seem to focus at all.
i had to stop working also which is ok for me just boring.

 

Then draw, even if it sucks.  Go outside and find something interesting and sketch it, or whatever your drawing interest is.  Even a few minutes will bring you some relief.

[emerik]

18 minutes ago, mstimc said:

 

Then draw, even if it sucks.  Go outside and find something interesting and sketch it, or whatever your drawing interest is.  Even a few minutes will bring you some relief.

 

your right, i do it 

and go outside everyday when difficult.

the main problem is really the sleep that play with me.

do you think a low dose of seroquel would play with my nerves too much?

[mstimc]

4 minutes ago, emerik said:

 

your right, i do it 

and go outside everyday when difficult.

the main problem is really the sleep that play with me.

do you think a low dose of seroquel would play with my nerves too much?

 

I'm not familiar with Seroquel so I can't comment on that.  Using my personal experience with Paroxitine, I had a terrible time sleeping during withdrawal.  But I've always had insomnia so I dealt with it as I've always done; adopting an evening ritual to help me relax.  I use different methods to keep it from getting too repetitive; sometimes I listen to meditative recordings on Youtube; sometimes I read or watch an enjoyable movie.  The key is not to struggle or "try" to sleep--avoid things that just increase the anxiety.  Do something that takes your mind off the need to sleep and you'll fall asleep.

[emerik]

1 hour ago, mstimc said:

 

I'm not familiar with Seroquel so I can't comment on that.  Using my personal experience with Paroxitine, I had a terrible time sleeping during withdrawal.  But I've always had insomnia so I dealt with it as I've always done; adopting an evening ritual to help me relax.  I use different methods to keep it from getting too repetitive; sometimes I listen to meditative recordings on Youtube; sometimes I read or watch an enjoyable movie.  The key is not to struggle or "try" to sleep--avoid things that just increase the anxiety.  Do something that takes your mind off the need to sleep and you'll fall asleep.

yeah im trying that, i never had problem sleeping before so this is all so new, ive been doing all that.
my problem sleeping seem to be from weird breathing pattern that seem to have emerge with the WD. that breathing is all day all night, like skipping a beat.
im sure its a common symptom, hoping time will help my brain disassociate with this feeling.

medication to counter sleep effect sound very stupid, considering ive been dealing for this for a month, especially zopiclone which is highly addictive and destructive ive heard.

seroquel or beta blocker could be an option, but ill def wait it out first and practice ritual.

its very hard to not struggle, i guess because this is all to new to me.
 

[emerik]

was the reinstatement of 20mg celexa an extreme move? as im struggling to find post where peoples reinstated their original dose straight up

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, emerik said:

seroquel or beta blocker could be an option

Seroquel is an antipsychotic prescribed for schizophrenia, has significant side effects and is not recommended as a sleep aid.

It has to be tapered off.  Beta blockers can have significant negative effects on your heart and also have to be tapered.

[emerik]

thanks @Gridley always there to comfort hehe,
what do you think about my question about the reinstate of 20mg of celexa.

[Gridley]

1 minute ago, emerik said:

what do you think about my question about the reinstate of 20mg of celexa.

We recommend a much smaller reinstatement than original dose.  Your system may have been destabilized further by the large dose.  I would make no changes now and let your system rest and heal.

[emerik]

i have been having stomach pain, like knot, and my stomach make noises all the time, thats caused by the stress i assume?

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, emerik said:

i have been having stomach pain, like knot, and my stomach make noises all the time

More likely it's withdrawal.  Of course, stress exacerbates withdrawal.

Samantha: Effexor withdrawal developed stomach pain/gerd ...

See #38 on this withdrawal symptom checklist:

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

 

 

[lxjuice]

12 hours ago, emerik said:

checked in a night of 0 sleep again.

this is starting to affect my day to day too much. and i have dark thoughts at night, nothing serious but still.

 

i know this is a off medications forum

but im thinking of going daily zopiclone for a while as it give me sleep and i feel

way better the next day.

The mods wouldn't suggest it but I have had no problems with the occasional zopiclone or diazepam during tapering of multiple drugs. Don't take it daily though or it'll just be another thing you need to taper off of. No more than twice a week.

Have you started CBT-I?

[emerik]

3 minutes ago, lxjuice said:

The mods wouldn't suggest it but I have had no problems with the occasional zopiclone or diazepam during tapering of multiple drugs. Don't take it daily though or it'll just be another thing you need to taper off of. No more than twice a week.

Have you started CBT-I?

yes, doing the journal now, i was already tracking my sleep before.
i think my sleep problem is just anxiety over not sleeping lol, i have no problem staying asleep, its falling asleep.
 

[emerik]

@lxjuice im gonna stick with it for a while def, but most of the thing in the program, i was already doing it, the biggest thing is worrying i guess and racing thoughts due to withdrawals.

[lxjuice]

2 minutes ago, emerik said:

@lxjuice im gonna stick with it for a while def, but most of the thing in the program, i was already doing it, the biggest thing is worrying i guess and racing thoughts due to withdrawals.

CBT-I is sleep hygiene + sleep restriction. You probably already know that if you have actual insomnia then sleep hygiene is trash. Sleep hygiene is more preventative than curative.

Sleep restriction fixes your insomnia and sleep hygiene reduces the chance of it happening again. The journal is preparation for sleep restriction. Definitely keep it going.

[emerik]

@lxjuice 8hours is a too big window right?

i wanna wake up at 9am everyday so i should go to bed at 1am?

[lxjuice]

4 hours ago, emerik said:

@lxjuice 8hours is a too big window right?

i wanna wake up at 9am everyday so i should go to bed at 1am?

 

8 hours is probably too big unless your current window is ridiculous like 10+ hours. If you've been logging the journal properly then you'll be able to figure out your window based on how much actual sleep you're getting.

[emerik]

5 minutes ago, lxjuice said:

 

8 hours is probably too big unless your current window is ridiculous like 10+ hours. If you've been logging the journal properly then you'll be able to figure out your window based on how much actual sleep you're getting.

im gonna redo it as i was using my past 2 weeks which were like, either 0 sleep or some sleep with ambien or zopiclone, 
do you use the get out of bed after 30 min if your not falling asleep and do something?

[lxjuice]

4 hours ago, emerik said:

im gonna redo it as i was using my past 2 weeks which were like, either 0 sleep or some sleep with ambien or zopiclone, 
do you use the get out of bed after 30 min if your not falling asleep and do something?

 

Yeah but at the beginning I wasn't strict with it, more like an hour, now I'm sleeping better I stick to it because I know if I get up and do something for 5-10 mins I'll be more likely to get back to sleep.

[emerik]

i just bought another fish oil supplement as mine was very low in epa and dha,

but i just realized it also has vitamin E : 12mg and vitamin D 5mg.

keep in mind i have already horrible problem sleeping.

is that gonna be a problem! should i loook for another one without vitamin e and d

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, emerik said:

 

is that gonna be a problem! should i loook for another one without vitamin e and d

Those dosages of E and D are very small.  E is recommended to take with fish oil.  D can be activating though again 5mg is a tiny dose.  Do whatever makes you comfortable.

[emerik]

i got vitaminE 600IU insteaf of 400 IU, whats the difference ? also
my magnesium supplement say the following : per capsule, magnesium citrate 600mg, magnesium 100mg,

i know your suppossed to take around 25-50mg, is the 600mg of citrate important?

[Gridley]

6 minutes ago, emerik said:

whats the difference ?

600 is 50% more vitamin E.  400 is the recommended amount.

[emerik]

2 minutes ago, Gridley said:

600 is 50% more vitamin E.  400 is the recommended amount.

ok cool ill return it, what about the magnesium?
also weird  ive been feeling super normal the past 2 days with 0 symptoms . if only it would last lol

Edited February 12, 2020 by Gridley

[Gridley]

1 minute ago, emerik said:

ok cool ill return it, what about the magnesium?
also weird  ive been feeling super normal the past 2 days with 0 symptoms . if only it would last lol

That's great the you've been feeling good.  Very good sign of healing.

 

Magnesium glycinate is a good form of magnesium.  Start with a low dose and work up from there.

It's often recommended to take small doses--like 25mg--throughout the day.  You can use a pill cutter to get the small doses.  They don't don't have to perfectly the same, just close.

[emerik]

1 minute ago, Gridley said:

That's great the you've been feeling good.  Very good sign of healing.

 

Magnesium glycinate is a good form of magnesium.  Start with a low dose and work up from there.

It's often recommended to take small doses--like 25mg--throughout the day.  You can use a pill cutter to get the small doses.  They don't don't have to perfectly the same, just close.

i got citrate, but it say 600mg citrate per capsule, 100mg of magnesium, im confused about the 600mg citrate?

[Gridley]

2 minutes ago, emerik said:

i got citrate, but it say 600mg citrate per capsule, 100mg of magnesium, im confused about the 600mg citrate?

 

That doesn't sound good to me.  Citrate can have side effects.  Can you take it back and get plain magnesium, preferably glycinate?