Rozon1: Effexor withdrawals

[Rozon1]

@FindRest did you reinstate at a very low dose? How did it feel the first night? 
 

 

also mods if I reinstate and I do stabilize, should I keep going up in dosage of eventually taper from that?

[Rozon1]

Thanks @FindRest right now I hope I can find rest myself. This is getting more and more tough. 
 

 

are there any mods active right now that could give me advice on reinstating at 1-2mg? What should I look for? If I stabilize, should I slowly taper from the 5-10% method? What if I take it, and it throws my body in a severe case of withdrawls worse than what I have now? 
 

my brain is over stimulated. I can’t yawn, sleep, etc. I don’t know what to do

[Happy2Heal]

everyone is different @Rozon1

 

I jumped off at 2.5mgs of lexapro and ended up reinstating over 4 mos later. 
I was, like you, very very afraid of what might happen.

I didn't know if I would feel worse

 

 

so rather than take the advice to reinstate at 1mg, I literally reinstated at a TINY TINY fraction of a mg.

I used the liquid lexapro and reinstated at um, I think it was 0.3 mgs? I'd have to check.

It seemed to make me feel a tiny bit better right away, so I went up a tiny bit more over the course of like a week or something (forgive me I don't recall exactly, this was a couple of years ago)

 

I got to a certain dose, still well UNDER 1 mg at which point going up any more, even a tiny  drop, seemed to make me feel a bit worse, or at least, not any better

 

So that is where I stopped.

I stayed on that dose for at least a month before tapering off from that.

 

The mods can give you suggestions and advice based on what their best guess of what might help but as they will all tell you, No one knows if it will work or not.

And you should know, re instating doesn't usually mean all of your symptoms go away, they often do get more bearable however.

 

It's a very tough decision to make. You have not been off for as long as I was, so I think your chances of this working out well for you are greater than mine were, having waited many months.

 

I went the most conservative route I could think of, by reinstating well below the suggested 1mg

 

I can't say if that was the right way to go, my WD recovery continued to be very difficult after that, but I was able to endure it , so overall I guess it was the right choice for me

 

I wish we could say what will work, wish we had a crystal ball! but if I were in your shoes, I'd consider a tiny reinstatement unless a mod has suggested otherwise

 

I haven't read thru your thread, probably should have done that first but will go and do that now

 

you're going to be ok!  WD recovery is tough but we do get thru it, many people have been where you are now and gotten thru it

and you will too.

hang on! it gets better

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

Thank you so much @Happy2Heal I just feel my brain is over stimulated all of the time and there’s nothing there to help it. It’s tough. How are you feeling over all today? Do you feel better? Would you consider yourself a success?

[manymoretodays]

On 1/24/2020 at 10:03 AM, Gridley said:

Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose. We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  In the two months you've been off the drug, your system has made accommodations to being without the drug, and going to the the 50% mark would be too high.  Your system has become sensitized and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain and can cause you become unstable.  Sometimes it can be hard to regain stability after this happens.  Once you've answered my questions, we can suggest a reinstatement dose.  Please do not reinstate without letting us suggest a reinstatement dose.  Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

Then, once you've stabilized, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.  

 

Hi Rozon1,

 

I am just going to reiterate this post from Gridley here today.  We are both moderators.  You can see who is a moderator by looking at the left side of a post by a posters emoji.  Mine is a M, surrounded by blue, and then, below that will show if moderator, administrator, mentor, or member.  There is also a "staff" roster at the top left on each page.  You can contact us with an @, followed by our user name, or quote us.  We rarely do PM interactions, with support and/or guidance.

 

Do read through the link above on reinstating, at least the first couple of pages. posts there.

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor and EffexorXR(venlafaxine)

^ will give you more information on how to achieve a small dose of immediate acting Effexor

 

  

On 1/24/2020 at 10:45 AM, Gridley said:

If you decide to reinstate, I'd suggest starting low with 1mg.  I know that sounds very low, but these drugs are strong and I'd rather err on the side of caution.  If  1mg doesn't work, you can slowly go up.  The instructions for getting this low nonstandard dose are in the link I sent you previously about tapering effexor.  Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)  It's basically a choice between making a liquid from the immediate release tablet or cutting the tablet and weighing.  

 

And a few more helpful links:

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques
How to use oral syringes, gelatin capsules, powdered tablets, and do-it-yourself liquid solutions
 
How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules
General instructions on making a homemade liquid suspension
 

Using a digital scale to measure doses
Digital scales can measure less than 1mg by weight

 

Further questions around this, should go right here Rozon1.  And when/if you reinstate the 1 mg dose, do try your best to update daily in this format:

Keeping daily notes

Generally, unless an immediate adverse effect occurs, or your notes make something else clear that needs changing, the expectation is to stick with the same reinstatement dose for 7 days, or one week, before making any changes in it.  Oftentimes, just staying with a small dose, like 1 mg, helps reduce the intensity of WD symptoms.  And then much later, you also have less to taper off of......when that time comes.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by manymoretodays
additional, and posts not pages edit correction added

[Happy2Heal]

6 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

Thank you so much @Happy2Heal I just feel my brain is over stimulated all of the time and there’s nothing there to help it. It’s tough. How are you feeling over all today? Do you feel better? Would you consider yourself a success?

yes @Rozon1 I am a "success"- I posted my success story in the forum with that title!
 

 

I had all the symptoms you had plus more. It was very tough. but I got thru it.

you mentioned taking xanax, but I don't see that in your signature at all....?
 

when I first found this forum, I was taking a tiny TINY bit of a benzo, literally just chipping a pc off of a tablet and taking that. I was immediately advised that even that small amnt could be causing my symptoms to flare up, and so I stopped doing it.

You may want to discuss this with a mod when you have a chance to.

 

The feelings you are having are pretty standard ones for WD. You basically CTed off at 18.7mgs, right?

I don't know anything about the drug you are on, but the mods can help you with the dosing.

 

no one can tell you what to do, but it has not been very long since you "jumped off" your dose, so reinstating has a better than average chance of being helpful

 

You can take the mods advice and do 1 or 2 mgs, or if you are esp scared as I was, maybe there is a way for you to take even less, I don't know?

 

the thing about starting off super low is that you don't have that big risk of overshooting how far your brain has come in healing.

and you can always go up VERY slowly a tiny bit at a time if you feel it's helping.

 

always wait at least 4 days to stabilize though, maybe more. I'm not a mod so I don't know off hand what they suggest, but follow their advice about this.

 

to further reassure you, I did what you did, by going up and down in my dose, MANY times! over the course of almost 10 yrs. I was on lexapro, and my dose was sometimes as high as 40 mgs and then I CT'ed off, not knowing any better, or I fast tapered, and felt horrible 

but had no idea about WD, all the drs said it didn't exist!! yeh, right!!! 😕

 

but even when I knew better, I still made the mistake of jumping off at 2.5mgs which is a very high dose as it turns out, since these drugs are super strong!!

 

 

BUT the main message is, I RECOVERED fully from all these ups and downs and CTs and such.

I'm totally off the AD for over 2 yrs now and doing great!

 

and if you look at my signature, you can see, I took a LOT of psych drugs for a VERY long time, and I still recovered, so I hope this gives you some re-assurance.

 

Our brains and our bodies are more or less programmed to HEAL

 

 

yours will too. You  may need to get thru a rough period for awhile but your nervous system will get back to normal and you'll be able to sleep and relax and do all the things you did before you started this journey

 

I hope this helps some.

 

[Happy2Heal]

@manymoretodays   I see you've already "come to the rescue", thank you. I hope I didn't overstep or give bad advice.

I know how scary it is when you are starting out, and just wanted to offer some reassurance.

[manymoretodays]

No, fine H2H.  I think we must have posted in tandem.

I just wanted to clarify reinstatement with Rozon1. 

......and just reading your supportive, hopeful post now. 

[Rozon1]

@Happy2Heal and @manymoretodays thank you both. You've helped me. Just when youre this desperate and you can't even yawn or cry you lose all hope. You really do. I cried about 10 minutes to my brother explaining to him my problems. He said to keep your guys comments in mind and know that I'm going to get better. I just need to positive reinforcement!

 

@Happy2Heal when you said you were able to tolerate the withdrawls, was it easier to tolerate the withdrawls after you tapered? Were they lessoned when you reinstated to back to the lexapro? Also, yea i oinly took xanax 3x but quit. I don't plan on taking it again

[Happy2Heal]

17 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

when you said you were able to tolerate the withdrawls, was it easier to tolerate the withdrawls after you tapered? Were they lessoned when you reinstated to back to the lexapro? Also, yea i oinly took xanax 3x but quit. I don't plan on taking it again

 

 

ok keep in mind that everyone is different, so what happened in my case may not happen for you....

 

yes tapering was much easier to handle. 

reinstating did give me some relief, but in retrospect, I probably would have gotten a lot more relief if I hadn't waited so long.

I was urged to reinstate about a month before I actually did, because I was so afraid of things getting worse.

 

again, this is just how it went for me. everyone is different

 

I tell you about my long drug history and all my ups and downs and such, so that you can see that even from a really "bad" history, you still heal.

 

it's not easy for anyone, but from all that I've read, those that go the slowest, have the least distress.

 

but plenty of ppl have CTed and toughed it out, and been ok too.

 

it's a very personal decision.

 

I guess initially I thought I could tough it out, but I needed to reinstate and taper off from there and that worked out for me.

 

you're going to be ok. when you're feeling esp down, it helps to read the stories in the Success forum.

I did that a lot!! and I still do.

 

or if you need to, PM me and I will remind you that it's going to be ok

 

 

[Rozon1]

@Happy2Heal did your emotions come back gradually stronger than longer you stayed off of it?

[Happy2Heal]

53 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

@Happy2Heal did your emotions come back gradually stronger than longer you stayed off of it?

 

 

um, I had something called "neuro emotions" for part of my recovery. at other times, I had lack of feelings and no pleasure in anything, called anhedonia.

 

so it varied but yes, my emotions all came back and seem to be pretty normal now

 

this all happened after I reinstated and then tapered off slowly over the course of a year.

 

the long taper may sound scary, but it's actually a much gentler and more tolerable way to go, in most cases, as far as I've seen

 

when you get a chance, take a peek in the Success Stories forum, and you'll see many ppl who have gone thru this and been  just fine. It's good to have a lot of different people's perspectives on this.

You'll find a lot of folks who have been thru what you're going thru and they share their tips for what helped them get thru it.

 

 

[Rozon1]

Can anyone please help me with this? Has anyone had trouble yawning and feeling the most basic pleasures like stretching? I'm trying my best here

 

Has anyone heard of these being a problem?

[Rozon1]

Hey @Shep, @Altostrata, @brassmonkey, @Gridley, @manymoretodays, 
 

I just want one final opinion before I make my decision. If I am managing my symptoms(barely) and I see little improvements here and there, would you risk reinstating 2 1/2 months out? I know manymoretodays said it would be worth a try but would that somehow make things better in the long run to reinstate? I would like a panel opinion because I can’t do this myself. I am sooooo afraid to derailing any healing going on and scared I get really bad symptoms because of it. 
 

please.. 

[Gridley]

35 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

ould you risk reinstating 2 1/2 months out?

2 1/2 months out is still within the 3 months during which reinstatement predictably works. If you'll look at my first post to you you'll see all the parameters of reinstatement.  Basically, there's no telling how long the symptoms you're currently suffering will persist.  Jumping to zero from 18.75 to zero is a cold turkey.  

 

Many people get great relief from reinstatement.  If you decide to reinstate, I'd reinstate 1mg and see how that work.  It takes a bit over a week for the reinstated dose to reach full state in your blood but as the days pass you should start feeling better.

Keep daily notes on paper to track how the reinstatement is doing.  It's important to start low as we don't want to overwhelm your system.  1mg may be just the right amount.  Please re-read my first post about reinstatement to ground yourself in the details before making a decision.

 

If symptoms improve, you would hold there for several months to stabilize, then start a 10% taper to zero.  

 

If after reinstating you feel worse, stop the reinstatement immediately.

 

Will it make things better in the long run to reinstate?  It can make things a lot less horrible.  I see that several members have posted that they reinstated and were happy they did.  Before I discovered SA I tapered Imipramine too fast and reinstated.  It took me four months to stabilize.  I'm glad I did it.  

 

This link explains how to do your dosage.

 

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

[Rozon1]

@Gridley I read your signature. You’re still on imipramine? 
 

also if I go past the three month mark would you recommend not reinstating? 

[Gridley]

5 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

 

also if I go past the three month mark would you recommend not reinstating? 

 

Yes, I'm still on Imipramine.

 

It's best to reinstate as soon as possible after discontinuing the drug.  Some people have successfully reinstated after 3 months.  Once it gets a whole lot longer than 3 months I tend to recommend it less.

[brassmonkey]

You're noting slight improvements in symptoms, which is a good sign.  Reinstatement is used when a persons symptoms are in the unbearable range and show no signs of letting up.  In many cases a very small reinstatement  will take the edge off.  Three months is not a "drop dead" point but rather a reference point that we know there is a greater likely hood of problems if one passes.  A CT is a rough way to go and takes a very long time to work itself out, but unless the symptoms are debilitating I would not reinstate.

[Rozon1]

@brassmonkey thank you that advice!!! I feel like it’s some of the best I could get. I mean everyone has given great advice I just took that to heart. Like legit. I didn’t know because I feel as if I am getting a tad bit better. I just don’t see how going back to the drug would heal me. I know it would probably make me yawn again and feel tired but I can’t justify it seeing as I’ve dropped two times in the past and tried to reinstate and it was horror. My symptoms aren’t as bad as they were a week ago when I wanted to just die. Now I’m seeing better improvements. Not drastic just small ones. I was just afraid to stall the healing process by going back to it.   I don’t know if I consider my symptoms unbearable or debilitating because they were once that a week ago where I just wanted to die due to the anxiety. But now I’m tired mentally and tired of debating on reinstating. I just don’t know. Like I’ve got two weeks until three months is too late. I’m hoping I see improvements in two weeks because if I get worse I just know I shoulda reinstated and I can’t go back. I won’t reinstate after three months though 

[Rozon1]

My libido has showed some improvement today. That’s some good news

[Rozon1]

Okay guys I’m legit not sleeping much at all. Can’t yawn. My whole body is just super over stimulated. Probably more than most. I don’t know if me not being able to mentally handle not sleeping well at all is considered “debilitating “ but I don’t know if I can keep doing this. I legit don’t get tired. I really don’t. It’s tough mentally. Physically I can handle it. It’s just my mind won’t stop being in fear. 
 

in considered going back on the drug. I feee I’ll get worse if I do but I don’t know. Just sitting here waiting for things to improve is killing me. I’ve noticed improvements from my panic attacks since last week which is good but everything else has remained and I’m just at a loss. 
 

Does this constitute a reinstatement trial? @brassmonkey? Anyone?

[Happy2Heal]

15 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

My libido has showed some improvement today. That’s some good news

that's great!! that's always a good thing

 

[Rozon1]

Have very many people reinstated after 2 months and been okay at low dosage or went to a different medication? I can’t keep doing this no sleep /anxiety thing. I got some sleep last night, like 3-4 hours but it wasn’t easy. 

[Happy2Heal]

20 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

Have very many people reinstated after 2 months and been okay at low dosage or went to a different medication? 

 

 

I can't answer this, I haven't taken notes while reading threads and wouldn't want to rely on my memory alone.

my overall *sense* is that most ppl who reinstate do better, BUT I honestly do not know.

 

I guess you're hoping to play the odds and it's just so hard to know.

 

My very personal opinion is that a TINY reinstatement, below what SA usually suggests, is the way to go, BUT that's what I was comfortable doing, and that's what worked FOR ME.

I reinstated at over 4 mos out, and did ok. 
I put off reinstating because, like you, I was worried I'd feel worse.

BUT then, because I was so afraid of feeling worse, I also used the tiniest dose reinstatement possible, felt a small but significant improvement, went up  a TINY bit more and then held at that point.

that worked for me, no  one knows if it will work for you.

 My thinking was, if I started super super low and it made me feel worse, I wouldn't have been as potentially destabilizing as a higher dose. I  jumped off at 2.5mgs and wasn't willing to go back on at 1mg, that seemed like too much to me.

 

you are a totally different person with a totally different history, a different body etc etc

 

you can try doing a poll, I suppose, but a lot of ppl are not on this forum a lot, esp once they start to feel better, so you probably would only get a handful of responses.

 

You could try reading thru as many threads as you can, to see what others did and how it worked out, but again

they are not YOU and this information may not help you much.

 

I wish I could just tell you what to do and tell you it's going to work out, but you really need to make your own decision, as you're the one who has to live with the consequences.

 

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

Would anyone suggest trying another medication, like Prozac or 5HTP to combat withdrawls? Surely I could do Prozac for a few months and taper off?

[Altostrata]

Hello, Rozon. You might take 6 beads out of the Effexor XR capsule and see it that helps. You'd taper off bead by bead after stabilizing for some months.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Rozon1]

Hey @Altostrata sorry but I cold turkeyed from effexor 2 1/2 months ago. I am no longer on it. I couldn’t do the capsules so I switched to the tablet before I discontinued.  Can you please help me in what I should do? 

[Altostrata]

I don't understand your question. If your withdrawal symptoms are intolerable, you might take 6 beads out of the Effexor XR capsule and see it that helps. You'd taper off bead by bead after stabilizing for some months.

 

Do you have any capsules left? Why would you prefer Prozac?

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

[Rozon1]

@Altostrata

 

Yea but I was taking the instant release tablet when I quit. The beads made me worse, so I switched back to the original tablets. I was cutting it in half with a pill cuter(probably inaccurate dosages every time). 
 

I just thought since Prozac wasn’t in my system before it would be kind to me. But I’ve ditched the idea of going on another SSRI since that post. 
 

two things I’ve noticed. My hair stopped falling out and my anxiety has improved since two weeks ago(even if it’s slightly). 
 

Im afraid of doing more damages to CNS by reinstating. If I’m seeing little wins and I’m able to sleep on and off 2-3 hours a night should I still reinstate? 
 

I also started taking fish oil. Feel like it’s helping

[Cocopuffz17]

@Rozon1 Your hair is falling out. As in alopecia ? 

[Rozon1]

@Cocopuffz17 no, my hair WAS falling out on the medication. Not alopecia. Since I’ve stopped I’ve noticed it is no longer falling out. My anxiety has also decrease(slightly but slightly is also drastic because I was having terrible anxiety). It’s still there, that pit ball in your stomach but i think maybe it’s just my gut healing. 

[Cocopuffz17]

1 minute ago, Rozon1 said:

@Cocopuffz17 no, my hair WAS falling out on the medication. Not alopecia. Since I’ve stopped I’ve noticed it is no longer falling out. My anxiety has also decrease(slightly but slightly is also drastic because I was having terrible anxiety). It’s still there, that pit ball in your stomach but i think maybe it’s just my gut healing. 

Interesting. I lost all my hair for 4 years while on medication. I stopped taking it and changed my diet and it has grown almost all back. L-glutamine is what I used to know my gut was in need a repair. I took one 5 gram serving per day and the reaction in my gut was so painful for the first two weeks and now I’ve been taking it for years and it is great for your gut. 

[Rozon1]

@Cocopuffz17 yea I’d run my hand through my hair and have 7-10 strands in my hand. I would be lightly running my hand through my hair too. It wasn’t like I was brushing it or anything. Now when I run my hand through my hair, even remotely rough, I don’t get any strands., it was crazy to see the difference in my hair from when I started the med to late last year. You could even tell my hair was thinner. Crazy

[Cocopuffz17]

11 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

@Cocopuffz17 yea I’d run my hand through my hair and have 7-10 strands in my hand. I would be lightly running my hand through my hair too. It wasn’t like I was brushing it or anything. Now when I run my hand through my hair, even remotely rough, I don’t get any strands., it was crazy to see the difference in my hair from when I started the med to late last year. You could even tell my hair was thinner. Crazy

Ya, I am not surprised. As these medications cause havoc in our bodies. A lot of people develop autoimmune diseases from the effects they have on our guts. 

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

@Altostrata

 

Yea but I was taking the instant release tablet when I quit. The beads made me worse, so I switched back to the original tablets. I was cutting it in half with a pill cuter(probably inaccurate dosages every time). 
 

I just thought since Prozac wasn’t in my system before it would be kind to me. But I’ve ditched the idea of going on another SSRI since that post. 
 

two things I’ve noticed. My hair stopped falling out and my anxiety has improved since two weeks ago(even if it’s slightly). 
 

Im afraid of doing more damages to CNS by reinstating. If I’m seeing little wins and I’m able to sleep on and off 2-3 hours a night should I still reinstate? 
 

I also started taking fish oil. Feel like it’s helping

 

What do you mean "the beads made me worse"?

 

Yes, you can hang in and let your nervous system settle down without taking any additional drugs. Please be careful to avoid stress, alcohol, and caffeine; keep very regular hours for sleep and waking; minimize sugar and artificial flavorings in your diet. Fresh fruits and green leafy vegetables will help you recover.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Rozon1]

@Altostrata when I was on the 37.5 tablet instant release  I switched over to the 37.5 extended release(different brand too) to count the beads to taper instead of weighing out the tablet. It just made me feel worse but I stayed on it until I tapered down to 50% then switched back to the tablet(possibly made things worse). I eventually cold turkeyed from the tablet 50%. Just saying if I were to reinstate I don’t think I could do the beads

 

also do you think my nervous system will eventually settle down?