Rozon1: Effexor withdrawals

[Colonial]

What is the one thing that upsets You most right now?

Anxiety? Insomnia? Not feeling like it's ever going to end?

 

You can expect to have symptoms probably for as long as it would have taken to do the taper correctly.

That's not to upset You, but to help You understand what's going on is normal.

It's only just close to 3 months since You CT'd.  

I think in another 3 months You will see some improvement.

[Rozon1]

@Colonial I appreciate it. The feeling like it's never going to end is what gets to me. The anxiety for the most part has calmed. Still there, but lessoned. Insomnia is also a component I want to end. I just want my body to feel tired again. I miss that for sure.

[Colonial]

 

That's rough, the "feels like it's never going to end" part.

For what it's worth, it seems like Your obsessing a little too much of where to go AFTER You re stabilize at 1mg IF you do choose to attempt to reinstate.

Your trying to plan too far down the line, which is making the anxiety and insomnia worse.

 

We will worry about 3 months from now in June, because IF You choose to reinstate, your going to need 3 months at least before we even worry about decreasing.

I think this is what is making this decision harder than it should for you, worrying too far down the line of how to do things when the time comes.

 

If You re instate, expect 3 months to stabilize before decreasing.  That's all You need to think about before making a decision.

But no one can tell You if, this far into the CT, if only 1 more month holding out would bring significant improvements.

It's too far into the CT to give any really good yes or no.

 

But I feel like Your decision making process is being held up by worrying about "what happens next", which is a good 3 months down the line and not relevant to the decision You need to make for now.

 

[Rozon1]

It’s been 3 months and one week out. I’m seeing improvements. Still dealing with symptoms but decreasing. @brassmonkey not asking you what to do just asking you to observe my situation from the outside in and give me some perspective. Thanks boss! 
 

@Colonial thank you for the advice and input! I’m 3 months and one week out. 

[Colonial]

Considering how high of a dose You CT'd from, 18.75, and considering You even got down to that on way too fast of a taper from 37.5  in...

From what I think your signature line says, you were at in August of 2019?  It seems You went from 37.5 to only 18.85 in roughly 3 months and then CT'd from there.

 

So for You to still be having a rough a time as You are is completely understandable, considering, as well,  all of the changes You made from January 2019 to August.

The important thing is what ever You decide to do, You have to stick with it for a decent amount of time to stabilize.  Constant tiny changes every 2-4 weeks is only going to make You worse, whatever You decide.

 

IF You choose to reinstate, unless it makes You WORSE, you can NOT keep changing the dose every few weeks just because your not seeing results "fast enough".

 

If You've made it to 3 months and a week and Your seeing improvements, that's great.  You can't expect too much too soon.

I think You'll see more improvements by the 5 months mark if You stick it out

 

I made a "9 month hold" in my taper after a bad neurological crash after tapering both paxil and wellbutrin too fast. 

Now, granted, I still had about 50% of my dose in my system, but I felt significant improvement by the 6 month mark, by the 8 month mark almost normal, and re started the taper at the 9 month mark.

 

Now, again, my progress was due to a "too fast" taper of 2 drugs, I never completely CT'd, but I saw "jumps" in improvement every 6 to 8 weeks.

I went by a "baseline" of how I felt the majority of the week, 5 days, since even in your waves and windows You'll have mini waves and windows.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

hey @Colonial my biggest issue is my constipation and never feeling tired. It just always there and never feels like its getting better. That's always been a constant for the past 3 months that hasn't improved even slightly. I just don't see how it's gunna start getting better even if I wait out 6 months. Which I hope you're right. 

 

Also, I've learned not to change dosages so frequent, trust me. I have no plans on making dramatic changes in short amounts of time. hence why I've been off the drug for 3 months without reinstatement. I just wonder if going back to a small dose would help with my constipation right now or not.

[Cocopuffz17]

23 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

hey @Colonial my biggest issue is my constipation and never feeling tired. It just always there and never feels like its getting better. That's always been a constant for the past 3 months that hasn't improved even slightly. I just don't see how it's gunna start getting better even if I wait out 6 months. Which I hope you're right. 

 

Also, I've learned not to change dosages so frequent, trust me. I have no plans on making dramatic changes in short amounts of time. hence why I've been off the drug for 3 months without reinstatement. I just wonder if going back to a small dose would help with my constipation right now or not.

Things will improve if you give your body time to heal. I was unable to sleep. I now sleep 7-8 hrs a night with no melatonin(I thought I’d never be able to sleep normal again). My fatigue was so crushing. I thought it would never improve as well. I now only get it a little bit compared to everyday all day for months.

 

Everyday that passes is another day closer to being healed! 

[Colonial]

4 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

I just don't see how it's gunna start getting better even if I wait out 6 months. Which I hope you're right. 

 

What medical evidence or research do You have that is convincing You that you "don't see how" it's going to get better?

Or are You just accepting a negative thought line in Your head?

 

These drugs can, like any bad habit, "redirect" our thoughts to illogical lines of reasoning.

I see many becoming, almost, like:  "Obsessive Compulsive Negative thinkers".

Not saying that is you, just be aware that accepting negative assumptions about Your recovery, without good reason, can really Bum You out and make things harder on Yourself than necessary and lead to bad decision making.

 

Have a good night! 🙂

[Rozon1]

@Colonial theres no evidence. It's the feeling. It's been like this for  almost 2 months and hasn't really shown signs of letting up like a lot of my other symptoms. You can call it accepting or whatever you want. It's a feeling that's sh*tty and you don't want anyone to feel that way. It's our human instincts to think this way when is something is wrong w/ your body and it hasn't shown signs of getting better. I could be wrong, but why do I feel this way? I can't help it. I'm calm. I'm just annoyed. I'm thankful for some of my symptoms to have gotten better but the other's haven't. I think that's natural. 

[Colonial]

theres no evidence. It's the feeling. It's been like this for  almost 2 months and hasn't really shown signs of letting up like a lot of my other symptoms.

 

Correct, it's a FEELING, not a fact, and Your making an unwarranted "assumption" that 2 months is unreasonable, and therefore, problematic, when its not.

 

It is natural, because, the suffering is so severe.

But by it's very nature, that is the problem of suffering....

The worse it is, the more it creates a "tunnel vision" in Our outlook and all we can focus on is the problem of "why" and "how" to get out of it.

Then, Our thinking becomes "warped", and it becomes "all or nothing"....

We start to constantly use words like, "never, always, forever, impossible", etc.

It's almost like, we are in a "State of War" with ourselves, and we are both Our only enemy and Our only ally.

We start drawing "all or nothing" conclusions like:  "I just don't see how it's gunna start getting better even if I wait out 6 months."

 

And please know, I'm not picking on You, we've all done it, it's part of the unintended consequences of being in a severe traumatic event, which is what withdrawal is.

I just formed it as a question to You, so hopefully, You could see the point I was trying to make, how in the severe stress, we can "Accidentally" draw what would be:

"Near Catastrophic Conclusions" to our situation, based not on facts, but on emotion, the sheer suffering, and the PTSD that's starting to set in...

 

Hope that helps. 💝

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

@Colonial thank you for your words. Their uplifting. I don't think you were picking on me. I understand your point of view and it's rather encouraging than it is discouraging. So Thank you! I'm staying hopeful. I didn't get the brain zaps that I've gotten previously when I got off this medication. I think my brain is still used to the medication(at least some of it) and the other half still doesn't know what to do. 

 

It's just tough to make a decision when you likely know it's probably not the best for your long term health but you just want to feel some relief. I AM thankful for the severe anxiety symptoms to be lessoned but still left with these ones.

[Colonial]

3 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

 

It's just tough to make a decision when you likely know it's probably not the best for your long term health

 

Again, that's another statement that many people have that really isn't based in scientific fact but the "assumption" that the sooner the med is out of Our system, the sooner You will be completely healed.  That simply isn't the case.

 

While re in-statement "Seems" like a step backwards, in many cases, if done at the right time, it's actually more likely to get You in a better place long term, faster than holding out on a CT mistake.  The reality is, that those who CT do not recover any faster than those who do a more controlled taper.  

There is a mistaken notion that we can count from the date of the last dose, and assume recovery in a certain amount of time from THAT date.

It just isn't the case. 

 

The "long term health" equation is based on the quality and length of the taper, the persons mental outlook and environmental issues.

The "date" of the last dose is just a "red herring".

 

The issue is, is it a reasonable hope for You at this point. 

 

 

[Rozon1]

@Colonial At this point I'm past the 3 weeks/3 months reinstatement window. By a week. That's why I say this. If I could go back, I would probably taper if I'm being honest. I'm not arguing that. I just don't know if staying off at this point is better for me or going back on a small dosage. 

 

 

[Colonial]

 

The problem is, these are all "windows" and time frames that are suggested guidelines.

For good reason, but their not "Gospel truth" for everyone.

If You reinstated tomorrow, it's not like Your body is going to say:

"Oh, sorry!  Your 9 days past the recommended date on that certain website, so,  You know, we can't possibly benefit from this reinstatement."

 

Guidelines and Protocols exist for a reason, but in the end?  It's still guesswork.

Everyone will react differently.

For some people, more than a month is too late, etc.

"We" would really have to have enough of a "control group" who didn't "try" to reinstate until after 3 months to know if it's of any value.

 

Tough call....😬

 

[Rozon1]

@Colonial exactly! your input is so nice. I think it's because I'm less anxious and am able to come to logical conclusions lately, that a lot of this advice is more clearer.. 

 

Yea, I'm debating on reinstating even this late out due to my symptoms not getting any better in regards to the constipation and insomnia(never feeling tired, etc,) although my sleep has gotten better.

 

How are you feeling?

[Colonial]

I'm hanging in there...

 

Baseline "Normal" for Me is functioning at about 30% of what life was like for Me before withdrawal...

But, I'm still not completely done, so I keep that in account, add that to being 5 years older.

 

On Feb 1 I dropped from 0.24mgs of Paxil down to 0.16mgs, and had a weeks worth of brain zaps and an uptick in anxiety and insomnia for it...

So, it's hard to ever really have a good long window unless You want to hold for 6 months, which... at this point, I don't see the need..

Hard to believe it's been 5 years doing this now, but.... we're in the final furlong! 😎

 

[Rozon1]

@Colonial how is your anxiety and insomnia now? still feeling it? My anxiety started about a month ago with the insomnia. The anxiety was sooooo tough on me. I'd say it was somewhat aka where I just couldn't be still. Scary ****. Glad that it seems to be over for the most part. You're close! Can't wait until youre off to see how you feel!

 

What do you think of my situation? Would you try to reinstate knowing what you know about my drug situation or do you think I should hold out?

[Colonial]

 

It's hard to say, because it's an issue of tolerance to suffering, and what it's doing not only to You, but those around You...

I've only ever up dosed twice, and it was within the 2 months.

I reinstated on Xanax after being off it for about 2 months and that probably saved my life, I was so sick and suicidal.

I couldn't see right to drive, and almost caused an accident, and I didn't want to accidentally kill someone else trying to "tough it out", so to speak.

 

It's all what You personally can handle, insomnia and constipation itself wouldn't cause Me to re instate...

But I think Your dealing with a lot of underlining anxiety still that's bombarding Your thoughts more than anything else...

 

I think if You could get a hold of Your thoughts, and simmer down the anxiety, You could hold out.

The question is how to calm Your cortisol and Nervous system.

I've used Epsom salt baths and that helped get me to sleep, and getting 5 hours is such a big difference over 3.

 

The problem is, You really can't say how long Your going to be "stuck" at any given stage.

Like I just said this week about My own journey this week, if I had known I was going to be this sick for this long and this disabled for trying,

I never would have tried to go off it.

 

Ultimately, the question is how much of a problem to Your daily life is "holding out" causing You?

Only You can answer that.

Going back on 1 mg itself isn't a problem per se, as long as You can dose it correctly.

My only concern is if You can't get the dose correct, You might do more harm than good. 

 

 

 

 

[Rozon1]

@Colonial yea, the suicidal thoughts and anxiety have def left me for the most part. I "toughed it out". I certainly have anxiety but, trust me when I say, it's pretty normal anxiety now, I think. It's more so, "how long am I going to feel like this" or "is my body ever going go back to normal" anxiety. Atleast right now it is. I think I only visited the forums today because of a notification I got from you. Where normally I was on the forums for 4 hours a day just reading stories. Good and bad. And I’ve been laughing a bit with friends today. So, overall, it’s not bad. I’m there logically today too, which is improvement. 

 

It's def messing with my daily life " holding out". I really don't have much of a life right now but it's a lot better than it was a month ago, so that's improvement. My nervous system is just *****, and I can certainly feel it. 

 

When you say dosing it correctly, what do you mean? Like I said, I could use the gemini scale, but that scale doesn't seem too accurate at that low of a dose. Then it scares me even more if I want to go lower because getting a lower reading seems even more impossible.

 

Regardless, I know I can hold out for 3 more months, there's no doubt about it. Assuming that anxiety that ******* scares me and makes me restless doesn’t come back. Never want to feel that again. It's more so the question, am I going to be feeling like this 3 months from now? When I could have simply went back on a low dose of medication.

 

I think my nervous system needs the drug to calm it down again but not entirely sure it won't recover by itself. It’s a question I can only answer by trying it, I know. But having advice from you and perspective helps. 

 

Anyways, thanks for the conversation. How old are you btw? Just curious

 

[Colonial]

 

Yes, by dosing it correctly, I mean being able to get the dose super accurate.

Because if You can't, then You don't know if the reason Your NOT getting better OR getting worse is just that, a different dose every day.

That will do as much harm as anything else.

 

If you think Your taking 1 mg but Your getting 0.8 one day and 1.2 the next, You won't do well, and then You will blame it on waiting too far out to reinstate.

Does that makes sense? 

 

So, until Your sure You can get the correct dose, it's better to hold out, in my opinion.

That's not a "medical advice" opinion based on Your case, as much as a common sense opinion that is for everyone.

You only take a dose if You know what's in it. 🙂

 

I have been lucky to have a Compounding pharmacy within driving distance that helped Me a lot with My Wellbutrin Withdrawal below the 20 mg mark.

The insurance covered it, since they know its "cheaper" for them in the long run to help get me off a med than have to continue to pay the rest of my life to be on it.

I'm in My 50's..gettin' Old...

Lol 🤩

[Rozon1]

Hey guys. Just wanted to post an update. Today has been weird to say the least. I kept thinking I could tough it out but the more trouble I have with sleeping the more trouble I have in general it seems. Sure, my anxiety has gone down a lot. My sleep is somewhat better. But it’s still bad. My brain just feels on all of the time. I don’t feel human, basically. I don’t see this getting better without a possiblity of reinstating. Still holding out, maybe because I’m an idiot and can “tough it out” but I don’t think I’m going to do it much longer. If I don’t see improvements in a week I might just give in and try a small dose. 
 

I thought by seeing improvements that I would be encouraged and motivated to keep going but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Suicidal ideations have crossed my mind but less frequently. My body is still cold most of the time and I have constipation. Even more evidence that my nervous system has been shocked.

 

id love to fast forward 3 months from now to see if I’d feel better but at this point, I just want some relief. Even if that means failing a small reinstatement to atleast try. The brain can only take so much.

 

@Colonial also thanks for your input I don’t know if I could do a compounding pharmacy. Yes I worry id be getting an inaccurate dose if I tried weighing it out. That’s also what makes reinstating a hard decision for me. But I’ve got this little girl to stay strong for so I’m still going.

 

dont know when this roller coaster Ends.

 

only windows ive had are the ones free from anxiety. Sleep just comes and goes. I don’t think it’s a window or wave since my body never feels tired anyways. Just feels like it’s been a constant wave for 2 months almost I think. 

[Colonial]

I'm with You, friend, no matter what You decide...🤠⚜️

[Rozon1]

Hey guys.. today is a bit better but still dealing with symptoms. I keep hearing I'll maybe see improvements in 6 months. and I appreciate it. Those are the words that keep me going. I need someone to tell me something. Has anyone recovered from symptoms that that genuinely were going to last forever. Not because their going through it but because they've been going through it for so long and it just feels like it's not going to get better. 

 

I legit don't know how anyone can "tough" out this type of CT im dealing with.. Surely someone has gone through something similar. I feel most people woulda reinstated already where I've just "toughed it out" because I'm so stubborn. Maybe reinstating was the best option? 

 

Words of encouragement are weclome

[Rozon1]

hey guys, @Rosetta, @Colonial, @Happy2Heal just a few people that's helped me through this..

 

My symptoms are def nervous system related. They haven't let up too much in the past 3 months. The major anxiety had come and go. My sleep has gotten better, for sure, but I still NEVER feel tired per se.

 

The way my body feels, it does legit just feel it's not going to get better. I know it's just a feeling and I'm very likely wrong.

 

From what I've read, the drug calmed my nervous system and slowed down my entire body. This is true. As I was sleeping too much, always tired, gaining weight and losing hair whilst on the drug. Now that it's off, the theory stands fairly true. Now it's the opposite. I'm always AWAKE, constipated, etc. Quite the opposite. My nervous system def went through a shock. I just wonder if the nervous system will ever go back to normal or do I need the drug to help sooth it out? 

 

Thanks guys. Everyday is just mental torture about going back to it. You guys have been good at talking sense into me. Just want to see your opinions.

[Colonial]

How long again was in between the 11/28/19 Cold Turkey and the start of Your bad symptoms?

If You could add that to the signature line, that would help.

 

My only concern with You reinstating, is if You have a way to get a "constant" dose, and not end up 0.8 mgs one day and 1.2mgs the next.

Because the "flux" in dose will give "symptoms" that we will then not know if it's because you waited too late to reinstate and your having a reaction,

Or if it's due to the med flux.

 

When I had the bad crash the end of 2015, early 2016, I made a drop on  12/27/15.  I did not make another drop until the beginning of August:  8/4/16.

 

It took 2 months to get "rid" of the horrible symptoms, another 2 months (4 month mark) before my day was better than worse, although I had waves and windows throughout the day.

By the 6 month mark, I felt significantly better.  By the 8 month mark, I "almost" felt normal.

 

Now, of course, I never CT'd, which means I recovered earlier than those who do.  But even with 7.2 mgs of a starting dose of 25 in my system, I was in significant distress, as I was WD from 2 different drugs.

14 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

I just wonder if the nervous system will ever go back to normal or do I need the drug to help sooth it out? 

 

You "may" get back to a spot where Your "symptom free" for a significant part of Your life, but that doesn't mean Your ever back to "Normal".

CT Does significant damage, You may get back to "close" to normal, but at any point, You may relapse from a seemingly insignificant reason, (reaction to an antibiotic, major stressor like a death of a spouse), etc. 

 

I don't think it's correct to think we "need" the drug, as more as if it's a temporary "help".  The damage is done at this point because of the CT that's exacty 3 months out today.  Whether reinstating is going to be of any help to You personally, that's really a case by case basis, depending on multiple things, primary of which is getting an exact dose.

 

[Rozon1]

So @Colonial you have the same exact worries that I do. Like, I have the Gemini scale everyone also seems to have. And I know how to weigh them out but it’s like, am I getting the same dose or not? You’re literally thinking exactly how I am. Which is rare for not being in my specific situation. When you say you don’t think I’ll ever get 100% do you think I’m going to be living with these symptoms for the rest of my life or do you think I’ll See improvements over time? 
 

I agree, the damage is done. But my nervous system is obviously stimulated to the max, which I can tell is causing a lot of these physical symptoms. They seem more permanent than my anxiety when I did have that. My theory is l, is that if I reinstate maybe it’s what my nervous system needs to help heal. But then I find myself back on the drug for an indefinite amount of time and my body is getting used to it again. There’s no sure fact it’s going to heal me. Maybe make things the same or worse but now I’m stuck on the drug.

 

how are you doing these days by the way? I don’t think I’ve ever asked

 

also it’s been 3 months and 1 week since I’ve been off the medication. The nervous system symptoms started roughly 2 months ago. They didn’t start when I got off the medication immediately. Probably a month from the CT is when they started. 

[Colonial]

 When you say you don’t think I’ll ever get 100% do you think I’m going to be living with these symptoms for the rest of my life or do you think I’ll See improvements over time? 

 

You will definitely improve, to the point that you might not have symptoms at all for weeks.  

What's important is to remember that the absence of symptoms does not mean "healed", as if your CNS is back to where it was before.

We will all be "compromised" to some extent. But things improve and You learn coping mechanisms and learn to avoid your triggers, etc.

 

 "...My theory is l, is that if I reinstate maybe it’s what my nervous system needs to help heal. But then I find myself back on the drug for an indefinite amount of time and my body is getting used to it again. There’s no sure fact it’s going to heal me. Maybe make things the same or worse but now I’m stuck on the drug...."

 

Well, better to be "stuck" on a drug than suffering intolerably. 

At least that's how I see it.

If that's all I had to do to see significant improvement is go back to 1mg a day, to Me it would be a no brainer to do it.

The question is will You see significant improvement?

Because in a very real way, You still are "stuck on" the drug, your stuck with the effects of being on it, and that will continue for as long as Your brain decides it needs be.

 

Only You know how much it's causing an issue with Your life.

 

The good news is You never had problems with the drug while ON IT...

So that is a plus in thinking about re instating.

But You risk having a reaction to it now, along with dosage issues, which shouldn't be an issue IF You practice.

 

Can You "practice" with the scale?  using sugar or flour or something?

And it's important to stay with the same scale, even if yours is off by 10%, it will stay constant at that error throughout your taper.

But if you can "test" your scale against another, that would be a help.

 

 

How long again was in between the 11/28/19 Cold Turkey and the start of Your bad symptoms?

If You could add that to the signature line, that would help.

 

[Rozon1]

@Colonial, thanks for your response! I should correct myself, when I dosed down to 50% I DID problems while on the drug when I unwisely dosed down to 18mg before I CT'd. I was tired all of the time, constant letargic, etc. 

 

Listen, my life sucks right now. It's not perfect but i know I'm going through WD. I don't want to risk these 3 months of healing by taking the drug again IF I know I'm going to get better. If you were to ask me 3 weeks ago how bad it was, I woulda told you I couldn't keep going. The anxiety was too high. Now it's normal anxiety with physical WD's. Like you said, the damage is done. What is going back to the drug going to do?  Ease the symptoms? I'm managing now. I just want the nervous system to calm down. Maybe a little drug would do that. But then what if I never stabilize on that low dosage? 

 

Yea, I've got two scales that show close to two diff readings. It's annoying. I just don't know if I'm doing the right thing by staying off the drug. I can do it. I know that. I can wait another 3 months. The past two days, my bowel movements have been effortless. WHich is improvment.

 

I just know my nervous system is messed up. I know the drug supressed it. Will going back on the drug make it normal or make it even more messed up? 

 

Also, my symptoms started a month after I cold turkyed. so roughly 2 months if bad WD"s

[Armorall]

@Colonial how do you know this (below)?

"You "may" get back to a spot where Your "symptom free" for a significant part of Your life, but that doesn't mean Your ever back to "Normal".

CT Does significant damage, You may get back to "close" to normal, but at any point, You may relapse from a seemingly insignificant reason, (reaction to an antibiotic, major stressor like a death of a spouse), etc. "

[Colonial]

5 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

If you were to ask me 3 weeks ago how bad it was, I woulda told you I couldn't keep going. The anxiety was too high. Now it's normal anxiety with physical WD's. Like you said, the damage is done. What is going back to the drug going to do?  Ease the symptoms? I'm managing now. I just want the nervous system to calm down. Maybe a little drug would do that. But then what if I never stabilize on that low dosage? 

 

The point or reinstating is to ease the symptoms, it's not going to "cure" the WD completely.   I'm not sure what You mean by "stabilize", you already are IF your symptoms are getting better which they are.  And Your nervous system is calming down if the anxiety is getting better.  So Your already stabilizing,.

5 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

It's annoying. I just don't know if I'm doing the right thing by staying off the drug. I can do it. I know that. I can wait another 3 months. The past two days, my bowel movements have been effortless. WHich is improvment.

 

No one can know, one way or the other.  You have to weigh how much your getting better against the risks of reinstating.

5 minutes ago, Rozon1 said:

 just know my nervous system is messed up. I know the drug suppressed it.     Will going back on the drug make it normal or make it even more messed up? 

 

I would disagree, the  drug didn't "suppress" a "messed up" nervous system.  The nervous system became "messed up" by CT.  

 

aGAIN, How long again was in between the 11/28/19 Cold Turkey and the start of Your bad symptoms?

If You could add that to the signature line, that would help.

[Colonial]

3 minutes ago, Armorall said:

@Colonial how do you know this (below)?

"You "may" get back to a spot where Your "symptom free" for a significant part of Your life, but that doesn't mean Your ever back to "Normal".

CT Does significant damage, You may get back to "close" to normal, but at any point, You may relapse from a seemingly insignificant reason, (reaction to an antibiotic, major stressor like a death of a spouse), etc. "

 

What is it your asking exactly? The statement about being symptom free not equaling normal?

Or that relapsing for other non WD Reasons like antibiotics?

 

[Armorall]

I guess all of it. Last time I checked, there's no way to tell how a person is going to heal, how much etc etc. 

How do you know CT does significant damage? 

How do you know that you can never have a stabilized CNS? (sorry, I didn't quote that part, it was another reply you had)

How do you know who relapses and who doesn't? 

 

 

[Rozon1]

@Colonial it was about a month in between. I'll add it when i get home

[Colonial]

@ArmorallMany people equate "feeling better" with being "healed".  

They are 2 different things. 

If your free from symptoms, but taking an antibiotic can set a person back into a bad wave, then they weren't completely "healed"...

Otherwise the antibiotic or death of a spouse would not be able to put them back into actively re experiencing symptoms.

As You quoted me: "CT Does significant damage",  I did not say it could not eventually be "healed".  

What I'm saying is symptom free does not equate healing, or relapses from non withdrawal events would not occur.

CT's significant damage is the point of most of this web site, the side effects of the damage done and how it manifests in the symptoms that people suffer.

As to who will relapse, in the way your discussing, and who won't?  That's not something we can see ahead of time with a crystal ball.

 

[Rozon1]

hey @Colonial did you get my previous message? It was almsot exactly 1 month after I CT'd before my symptoms started. 

[Colonial]

I saw it, but I was trying to decipher between.

Ok, so If Your symptoms started the end of the year, and Your already feeling improvement in 2 months that's great!

That's about how long it took Me to really notice real improvement as well.