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Eligibly: Zyprexa Withdrawal Hell

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Eligibly

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Hello everyone,

 

I’ve read many of your stories on this forum. It makes me feel better knowing I’m not the only one going through Olanzapine withdrawal hell (or psych med withdrawal in general, whatever meds you are on) although after reading them I worry about what may come. Right now my major unresolved problem is severe insomnia.

 

A decade ago I was put on a large dosage of Olanzapine (30 mg) because I was diagnosed with schizophrenia. I was on that dosage for a little over 10 years. During that time I developed diabetes, my cholesterol and triglyceride levels skyrocketed and I gained about 70 lbs. After all that I was concerned about my physical health so I gradually reduced myself down to 20mg without any problems at all. I lost some weight and reduced some of the meds I was on due to the side effects of Olanzapine. I was on 20mg for many years after that and was doing fine but then it stopped working and switched to another medication for psychotic symptoms which so far is working well. It's not the new medication that is causing my problems, I tried quitting Olanzapine in the past and ran into the same problems.

 

The smallest tablet Olanzapine comes in is 2.5mg so from 20mg of Olanzapine I reduced 2.5mg at a time over a period of several months down to zero. Once I got down to 2.5mg my brain felt like it was always “on”, I don’t know how to describe that but if it’s happening to you you’ll probably understand. I also had pressure in my head and my brain felt inflamed (sort of like an itchy burning feeling), CBD oil has helped tremendously with all that. I take about 0.5ml of 1000mg oil (20mg) of CBD about three times a day sublingually (Hold it under the tongue for 45 seconds until it absorbs and sometimes swallow the little that’s left over). I’ve tried CBD capsules as well however digesting takes a while so they take longer to kick in and sometimes are not as effective for me. There are many types of CBD and everyone is different so experiment and don’t give up after trying just one. I find it helps with anxiety too although anxiety isn't a major problem of mine.

 

Anyways several days after stopping Olanzapine I started having major problems with insomnia. I can’t sleep. I get maybe an hour a night if I’m lucky. I have tried benzos to sleep and that helps sometimes but I don’t want to become dependent on them so I am trying to avoid them, same goes with sleeping pills. I’m beginning the process of trying different herbal and non prescription alternatives to try and sleep, anyone have any suggestions on what to try or any information on what helped you?

 

If anyone has experienced major insomnia due to Olanzapine withdrawal I would appreciate any tips on falling asleep. I lay in bed for 8 hours with my eyes shut, maybe once a night I drift off but most of that time I am just resting. My brain won’t make the transition from resting to sleep. The times I do fall asleep I usually wake up within an hour and can’t get back to sleep again. I feel like a cell phone with a 20% charge when I get up. If I take it easy during the day I can get by but if I exert myself I get tired quickly, yet still can’t sleep at night.

 

For those who’ve experienced insomnia during Olanzapine withdrawal how long did it last? Did things get better after a month, 3 months, 6months etc… I’ve been off Olanzapine for a few weeks now and the insomnia over the last week and a half has been brutal. I guess the only good news is I've lost quite a bit of weight since tapering down and going off Olanzapine.

 

 

 

Edited by Karma
changed at member request

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Eligibly

Titled:  Effexor Withdrawal Recovery

 

Hello fellow Effexor users,

 

Just wanted to let anyone know who is trying to quit that recovery is possible although it may be hard and take a few months. I've been off Effexor for 4 years and doing fine.

 

I was on Effexor 75mg for about 12 years. When I decided to quit, within 36 hours I started getting brain zaps. This would cause me to take another capsule to get rid of that awful feeling. One day I decided I was just gonna rough it out and push through it. The brain zaps got really intense after a few days. All I could do was just suffer through it, nothing I tried helped. Herbal teas, Tylenol, Advil, Aspirin, Aleve, nothing. The brain zaps eventually eased up after about a 1.5 months and improved from there. During that time those zaps spread all throughout my body. I had hot flashes and other times had cold sweats. On top of that I felt very weak. I also experience quite a bit of anxiety because I didn't know what was happening to me or when it was going to end. By the time I took my last capsule until the time I no longer had any withdrawal symptoms was about 2.5 months.

 

Oddly enough the only relief I found was in the shower. I could adjust the water temperature to cool me when I was hot and warm me up when I was feeling cold. It also helped numb/neutralize the electric body zaps shooting through my body, I found letting the water hitting my skin provided quite a bit of relief from that. Sometimes I'd just sit down and let the water pour over me. I've never spent so much time in the shower in my life. Eventually after about a 1.5 months things started to improve. By about 2.5 months I was through the worst of it and was doing much better. It was a long haul but worth it. I don't feel worse off for quitting. That stuff made me gain quite a bit of weight when I started it. I lost all that weight while quitting, its like the weight just melted off.

 

In conclusion recovery is possible, although difficult and it can take months. Good luck!

 

Edited by manymoretodays
added title, merged to members introduction

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Gridley

Welcome to SA.

 

Congratulations of getting off the Zyprexa and also earlier the Effexor.

 

Insomnia is a very common symptom of withdrawal from psychiatric drugs, including Olanzapine.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

This explains the healing process really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

Here are some techniques and tips to help with sleep.  Unfortunately, it's impossible to predict how long insomnia or withdrawal will last.  

 

Tips to help sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

Tricks and tips to fall asleep faster

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/16/tips-tricks-fall-asleep-faster.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20170216Z1&et_cid=DM133787&et_rid=1889748952

 

This link contains helpful information, including insomnia and also non-drug coping skills.  

When you browse down a bit you will find a lot of links covering what I believe is if not everything than almost everything there is under the sun that helps with insomnia. 

 

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Some members have found Melatonin helpful with insomnia.   

 

Melatonin for sleep   

 

It's best to start at a very low dosage, such as .25mg, and gradually increase if needed to the lowest effective dose.   Don't take a large dose, like 3mg because to those of us in withdrawal it can have a paradoxical effect (keep you awake).  I take a 1mg melatonin pill and cut it into quarters to get a dose of 0.25mg.

 

I've read from people here that while in withdrawal, people actually manage to function with very little sleep while waiting for their circadian rhythms to restablish. How are you feeling during the day? 

 

You're wise to be careful with the benzo.  Dependence can develop after 2 to 4 weeks of regular use and also from intermittent use.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gridley

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Eligibly

Thanks for all that info, I'll be sure to explore all those links.

 

To answer your question, during the day I am able to get by but I tire easily and am low energy. Sometimes I'm easily irritated.

 

I took your advice on the supplements. i just got back from the store. Picked up some Omega 3's, Magnesium and Melatonin. After reading your post, when I was at the store, I was shocked to see the dosages they had for the Melatonin. One was a 10mg time release capsule to last all night. I decided to stay away from that because of what you said about starting small. The smallest dosage of Melatonin they had was a 3mg  pill so I picked that up and will just cut the pills up and go from there.

 

I mentioned CBD in my original post, I would like to add some more information in the hopes that it helps someone else by saving them time and money experimenting with CBD. First off there are different types like full spectrum vs broad spectrum. Then there are also different oils that CBD comes mixed with like coconut oil or grape seed oil which affect absorption. You can get sublingual tinctures or capsules or patches or flower(i didn't like that). There is quite a bit of information on CBD out there so do your research. I've tried 2 different brands that I found most effective. The first is a company called Hemp Bombs. I don't care much for that name but the CBD agrees with me. I was in Canada a while back and picked up some CBD called Mary's Medibles. That worked well too. I advise people to stay away from the generics, the no name brands you find on various websites. I've tried a bunch and found them ineffective and a waste of money, but of course everyone is different so your mileage may vary. In the end educate yourself, read the reviews, test things out and see what works for you. When it comes to CBD I've read all kinds of claims about all the problems it helps alleviate, I can't attest to all that, but a lot of those problems have to do with the nervous system, such as anxiety, depression , psychosis, pain, inflammation, etc... Even though CBD is a cannabinoid, and I don't know how CBD alleviates all these problems, it does bind to some of the non-cannabinoid receptors in your nervous system, so perhaps it somehow temporarily resets your nervous system or perhaps it simply masks the problems. In any event with your nervous system being reset or problems masked, the anxiety, depression, psychosis, pain, inflammation, etc... goes away or lessens for a while, until the CBD wears off, your problems come back and you need more. The good news is that CBD isn't addictive, is generally safe and doesn't get you high. I've never heard of anyone having a bad reaction to it although I have heard of people not noticing any difference, but again that may be do to the type and dosage of CBD they tried so if your try it with no results give another kind a try or raise your dosage. I've tried up to 100mg in a day and experience no ill effects. To those experiencing nervous system related problems its worth a shot, I've found it very helpful with many of my Olanzapine withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

Edited by Gridley

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manymoretodays

Hi  Eligibly, @Eligibly

And welcome.

 

Yes, I saw your original post in Success Stories.  Titled Effexor Withdrawal Recovery.

Are you currently on medications?  I saw your post, that I moved to Intros., here.

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature to help us out.

Take a look at the link, and then just follow the instructions there. 

 

I'll move your other post over here for now, you'll find it above.

We generally reserve the topics in the Success Stories forum for those off all medications for a year.

See:  How to write your success story

and then extracted from the first post there:

"This forum is for success stories about recovery from withdrawal syndrome.

 

If your withdrawal syndrome is completely resolved -- you've been off ALL drugs for a year -- please open a topic for yourself here."

 

And then we do have a topic:  Cannabis, marijuana, hashish, THC, and CBD or Hemp oil

I'll go ahead and add your comments above about your experience to that topic now, as well.

We've seen varying responses to CBD oil in WD(withdrawal).  And as a general rule, only recommend the Magnesium and Omega 3's, as far as supplements go..  As there is not enough data to support it's use to date.  And like I said, varying responses to it have been reported by members.  Some not so good.  So please take a look through that topic.

 

Welcome aboard Eligibly.

 

L, P, H, and G,

manymoretodays(mmt)

p.s. you'll see the various forums on the main page or home page

Edited by apace41
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Eligibly

Thanks for that link. I use CBD and find it very therapeutic however I don't smoke marijuana. It doesn't make me feel good or euphoric and it doesn't help me sleep. I once tried smoking the low THC high CBD marijuana strain called "Charlotte's Web" and I didn't like that either. While I acknowledge it helps others I experience no medicinal value in smoking marijuana or the ingestion of THC in any form, in fact quite the opposite, paranoia, anxiety, uneasiness, headaches, it doesn't agree with me and I don't like it.

 

Thought I would post an update. The problems I was talking about (Brain feeling like it was always “on”, pressure in my head and a brain that feels inflamed) where problems that first presented themselves near the end of my tapering and continued afterwards and where what the CBD helped alleviate. They subsided last weekend (I joined this site the next day on Monday). I tried going two 12 hour periods without any CBD and there was no incidence of recurrence.  All this week my brain has felt much better, more like it is back to normal again. It's been almost a week since I experienced those 3 problems so I am hoping they are over now. They where not pleasant.

 

At the beginning of this week I made my first post and Gridley recommended Omega 3's and Magnesium. I picked them up and have definitely noticed a difference, it's not a super major life altering change but it is significant, they've made my brain/head feel that much better over the last couple of days. I would never have thought to try those 2 supplements so thanks for recommending them. I can see why others find them beneficial.

 

The only thing persisting right now is extreme insomnia. I've ordered 300mcg tablets of melatonin which I've come to learn is considered the optimal dosage. I've read various accounts on melatonin. Some people say it works wonders while others notice little effect. From small dosages like 300 mcg all the way up to 10mg. The melatonin will arrive sometime next week so I'm hoping it helps me sleep. Even a couple more hours would be great. Not sleeping or hardly sleeping (~1 hour or less) for so long has been really taxing. For now I am managing but am low energy and tire easily. I'll report back and let everyone know if the melatonin makes any difference after I have tried it for a few days. I don't know how long this insomnia will last, I've read accounts from around the web by people who experienced a relatively quick recovery to those who are 10 months in and only getting 5 hours a night. Although the way things are going right now I would welcome 5 hours a night.

Edited by apace41
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Eligibly

After a few days of taking Omega 3's I had a bad reaction. I would take the capsule and half hour later my body would feel like it was burning up and would stay that way for about 3 hours. After that happened twice I have decided to stop taking the Omega 3 supplement. Too bad, for the first couple days they had a positive effect.

 

The melatonin arrived early yesterday and I can't tolerate it either. I had a bad reaction where I felt extremely restless for about 3 hours. I couldn't sit still or lie down for very long. Just walking around the house trying to alleviate the restlessness. It's unfortunate because it simultaneously made me sleepy. Once the restlessness wore off I slept for a few hours.

 

The magnesium however is wonderful. 50mg 3x/day. My head has been feeling great while on it.

 

I've been scouring the internet looking for sleeping aids. It seems almost all of them come with dependency issues save one: Trazodone. It's actually a very old anti-depressant but is often prescribed for insomnia. I think I am going to make an appointment with my pdoc and get a prescription. Start at 25mg/day and work my way up until I find a therapeutic dosage. Hopefully I can tolerate it and it works. We'll see.

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Eligibly

I was reading a tapering guide about going of psych meds on this website. The 10% taper method. I was unaware of this and I went much quicker with my Olanzapine when I did go off it. I wonder if I have done damage to my brain and that is why I can't sleep. Will it heal?

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hayduke

Hi Eligibly,

 

Lasting brain damage is unlikely, though as you'll know olanzapine does have other unpleasant effects.

 

Perhaps the best way to look at it is to consider the 10%/mo taper curve on a graph.  If you use it as an analogue for how fast your brain's physiology can adapt to reductions in dosage, and you've got further ahead than what it can keep up with and keep making cuts, it's almost like a growing credit card balance that you have to pay off with time.  The increased interest is in the form of more difficult withdrawal symptoms.

 

One of the tougher things about this caper is that you have to go slower the smaller the doses get.  10% cut of 10mg takes you to 9mg (10% = 1mg  cut), but 10% of 1mg takes you to 0.9mg (10% = 0.1mg cut), so your 2.5mg steps have effectively got bigger the closer you've got to zero.

 

How long ago did you reach zero, and how long were you taking 2.5mg before that?  When you're having trouble like you describe at 2.5mg, the best thing to do is hold (maintain that dosage) until the withdrawal symptoms abate.  Even if it's some months.

 

If you haven't been at zero for long it could be worth reinstating a bit, brain 'always on' and not sleeping can be hard to deal with.  Better to get the rest and taper more gently if you can.

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Rebmik5555

Insomnia is my concern too as I taper off of Zyprexa.  I CT for 14 days and experienced what you are barely sleeping for 1 hr a night.  I’d love to know if by now slowly tapering will my sleep now be as affected when I finally do quit.  

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Gridley
On 2/22/2020 at 7:13 PM, Eligibly said:

Trazodone.

Trazodone is a particularly nasty drug and will have to be tapered off if you start it.  

 

You are looking at a 3+ year taper to get off 25mg, more of you go higher.  I urge you to read the following link about trazodone.  

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

 

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manymoretodays
On 2/17/2020 at 3:29 PM, Eligibly said:

I lost some weight and reduced some of the meds I was on due to the side effects of Olanzapine. I was on 20mg for many years after that and was doing fine but then it stopped working and switched to another medication for psychotic symptoms which so far is working well. It's not the new medication that is causing my problems, I tried quitting Olanzapine in the past and ran into the same problems.

 

Hi Eligibly,

I have been wondering about what medication(s) you are presently on?  I thought you had mentioned Latuda somewhere. 

It's important for us to know, the whole picture, and then there is some important stuff for you to be aware of too.

For example:

We often ask members to check drug interactions at Drugs.com. 

You can also plug in medications at the top, at that site, to get a beginning understanding as well, of some of the drug information..

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature to help the moderators.

Your signature appears below all your posts.  It does help to keep things in the proper context.

Do click/tick on the link above, as instructions are there, and a sample signature even

 

Let us know, if you have questions too, around this.

 

I too, believe that full recovery from these meds/drugs can happen.  Please don't be focusing on brain damage now.  You've just been through a bunch of changes, and then, even additions.  It takes time to adjust.  Any luck with any of the non-drug coping sleep tips? 

 

Thank you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt
 

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Gridley
On 2/22/2020 at 7:13 PM, Eligibly said:

Trazodone.

Trazodone is a particularly nasty drug and will have to be tapered off.  You are looking at a 3+ year taper to get off 25mg, more of you go higher.  I urge you to read the following link about trazodone.  

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

 

Edited by Gridley

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Eligibly

Thanks, it's comforting to know I probably haven't damaged my brain, I hope that is the case and that time will take care of things.

 

I've been off Olanzapine for almost a month now. Prior to that I dropped by 2.5mg every 2 weeks. Other than this sleeping problem I've gotten over the worst of my withdrawal symptoms.

 

As far as psych meds are concerned I've been on 60mg/daily of Latuda for about 5 months and 0.25mg/daily of clonazepam for about a year.  I have taken trazodone 50mg for sleep the last 2 nights and have slept  better than I have in a while. I am feeling a little better today.

 

If not Trazadone what medication could help me sleep? I am desperate for sleep. My body doesn't tolerate supplements very well, I'm generally better off consuming nutrients from food and dirnk. The omega 3's made my body feel like it was burning up for several hours. I tried melatonin and had an adverse reaction where I felt really restless in my legs and a little throughout my body and it lasted for several hours too. Neither was a pleasant experience. The magnesium has been tolerated the best but I've cut way down on that too. I've read hypnotics like Ambien and Lunesta are a really bad idea to mix with benzos so I don't want to try one of those, and even if I wasn't on clonazepam I've read a lot of bad stories about addiction and people doing things like walking, cooking and even driving during sleep. I don't know how long I will be plagued by this Olanzapine withdrawal insomnia but it shows no signs of letting up any time soon and hypnotics are not for long term use.

 

All these drugs have been really nasty to get off of. Effexor was brutal. Zyprexa hasn't been pleasant either and once I get this sleeping problem under control I want to tackle clonazepam. I've been doing a lot of reading about peoples experiences tapering off benzos in general and clonazepam in particular. I guess the only thing I've got going for me is that I am starting from a relatively small dose compared to a lot of other people out there but from what I've read to taper off it properly it is going to take me around 8 months or so.

 

Any advice on getting sleep would be appreciated.I've tried things like CBT for sleep, meditation and breathing exercises, no coffee, turning off TVs and staying away from computer screens 2 hours before bed, white noise and other tips I've read on the Internet but none of it helps in the slightest.

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Gridley
8 minutes ago, Eligibly said:

If not Trazadone what medication could help me sleep? I

We are a site for going off drugs and do not recommend drugs to counteract withdrawal symptoms from other drugs.  I'm sorry you're having this sleep problem.  It is very common in withdrawal.

 

Tips to help sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia
 
 
Trick and tips to fall asleep faster
 
This link contains helpful information, including insomnia and also non-drug coping skills.  
 
 
Some members have found Melatonin helpful with insomnia.   
See Melatonin for sleep   It's best to start at a very low dosage, such as .25mg, and gradually increase if needed to the lowest effective dose.  
l

 

 

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Eligibly
36 minutes ago, Gridley said:

We are a site for going off drugs and do not recommend drugs to counteract withdrawal symptoms from other drugs.  I'm sorry you're having this sleep problem.  It is very common in withdrawal.

 

Understandable. Helping people getting off as many drugs as they can which they no longer need is a worthwhile goal and a lot of people find this site extremely helpful in achieving that goal.

 

Thanks for posting all those links, I'll check them out in detail later but after a cursory glance it looks a lot like the stuff I've already read. Exercises like those do help calm me down and relax but unfortunately they don't put me to sleep.

 

Like I said my body didn't tolerate melatonin very well when I tried it, even in small doses. I do have 300 mcg pills, maybe I'll cut one in half and give it another try tonight, see what happens.

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manymoretodays
17 hours ago, Eligibly said:

As far as psych meds are concerned I've been on 60mg/daily of Latuda for about 5 months and 0.25mg/daily of clonazepam for about a year.  I have taken trazodone 50mg for sleep the last 2 nights and have slept  better than I have in a while. I am feeling a little better today.

 

I just ran the drug interaction report, here, for you Eligibility, for the now 3 medications you are using.

 

When do you take your meds?  Just note the time, then drug by name, and dosage.  Thank you.

 

And yes, we are a site for tapering and withdrawal support Eligibility.  Are you interested in tapering and/or going drug free one day?

 

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Eligibly

Thanks for that link to the report, I've actually checked that website out before too.

 

I take 60mg of Latuda at dinner time, around 5:00ish pm. You're suppose to take it with a meal of at least 350 calories.

I take 0.125mg (1/4 of a 0.5mg pill) of clonazepam twice a day. Once in the morning around 10:00am and again in the evening around 8:00pm

My Trazodone pills are 50mg. I don't want to develop a dependence on it so I am not planning on taking Trazodone on a regular basis, I have it for those desperate times where I haven't gotten any sleep in a long time.

 

Ultimately I would like to get off all my medications except Latuda. Unfortunately I do have schizophrenia and without an anti-psychotic I start having psychotic symptoms and it can be extremely distressing. I was on Olanzapine for a long time but it stopped working and I started having psychotic symptoms again, I switched to Latuda and they all went away. The only problem plaguing me is this damn insomnia. In fact my head feels a lot better on Latuda that in did on Olanzapine.

 

My doctor suggested that I try going back on a small dose of Olanzapine and it may help me sleep. I was on both Latuda and Olanzapine for several months during the transition with no ill effect, while on both I was free from psychosis and could sleep.  However tomorrow will be exactly one month being off Olanzapine. All my other withdrawal symptoms have subsided and I've lost about 20lbs since I started tapering off many months ago. I'm on the cusp of returning to my BMI weight after being overweight since I started Olanzapine. My physical health is much improved because of that. My cholesterol, triglyceride and blood sugar levels where all optimal on my last blood test. Part of me wants to go back on Olanzapine and see if it helps me sleep. Another part wants to power on and see if this insomnia passes so i can remain Olanzapine free. i would prefer to be Olanzapine free.

 

Getting off Effexor was an awful experience. Now I am dealing with Olanzapine withdrawal and I want to resolve this insomnia problem before moving on to tapering off clonazepam. Apparently that's going to be a whole lot of fun too, lol.

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Eligibly

I tried a small dose of melatonin last night, 150mcg, and I didn't have a negative reaction like I did last time I tried it, I'm thinking maybe my bad experience didn't have anything to do with the melatonin at all but I don't know for sure. I didn't sleep though. I'll try a whole melatonin pill tonight and see what happens, the melatonin I ordered online where 300 mcg pills and apparently 300 mcg is the ideal dosage. However that 300mcg ideal dose is for normal people, I'm in a medication withdrawal which is unnatural and probably more severe. If 300mcg doesn't help and I have no adverse effects tonight then maybe I'll try a larger dose 600mcg/900mcg/etc... Relative to what they sell at the local store those dosages are really small, I know at the store they have a 10mg extended release melatonin. I'll start low and work my way up provided I don't have a negative reaction like I did initially. At this point anything is worth a shot.

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hayduke

I hope the melatonin will help with your sleep.  I find it useful to get to sleep but if you're restless it generally won't keep you asleep (which is also why you don't get a hangover from it).

 

Like your doctor has suggested, if it gets to the point you can't sleep to the point where it is becoming troublesome, consider reinstating a small amount of the olanzapine, stabilising there for a while and then tapering more comfortably.  If you've only been off for a month it might help, but the longer you leave it it seems to become more of a dice throw.

 

You say you've had trouble with psychosis, it will behoove you to look into how that arose in the first place.  I meditated for years, and when the really hard stuff eventually came up I sought and found a clinical psychologist who was able to help me dig out the original splinter.  I'll be ok now.  Yoga is extremely helpful too.

 

Also be mindful that the 'anti psychotic' drugs can produce these symptoms on their own during withdrawal.  A reliable way of determining the difference is by holding when you start observing them, if it's withdrawals they will abate before long.

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Eligibly

OK, I think I am going to reinstate the Olanzapine. I was initially on 15mg, if I reinstate at 10mg would that sound like a good place to start? When I was tapering, while I was at 10mg I could sleep. I can always go down from there a little. Thanks.

 

Any idea how long it will take to be effective once I do reinstate?

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Gridley
25 minutes ago, Eligibly said:

OK, I think I am going to reinstate the Olanzapine. I was initially on 15mg, if I reinstate at 10mg would that sound like a good place to start? When I was tapering, while I was at 10mg I could sleep. I can always go down from there a little. Thanks.

 

Any idea how long it will take to be effective once I do reinstate?

10mg is too much.  We recommend reinstating a very small dose.  Your system has been sensitized and too large a dose can overwhelm it and destabilize.  I would recommend reinstating 1mg--no more.  This link explains how to get the small dose you'll need. There are three methods: using a digital scale to weigh tablet fragments or powder, having a liquid compounded or making your own liquid.

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

It takes about a week for the drug to reach full state in your system.

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Glosmom

Why not try a much smaller dose?  You have more than one medication you are taking and you have made changes.  My daughter tapered off just one antipsychotic and it has taken her many months to finally start sleeping better.  No guarantee reinstatement will help.... so maybe starting super small (1mg??) and holding there for a week or so to see if that helps would be much safer, it seems, than going all the way up to 10mg.  Insomnia is a common feature, and probably will continue to be a common feature, and medications rarely 'fix it'

 

Good luck to you. I wish you courage and strength as you taper off your medications. Glosmom

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Gridley

@Eligibly

 

Glosmom makes a good point, Eligibly.  Please consider carefully whether you want to reinstate.  There's no guarantee that reinstatement will help your insomnia, and if it doesn't you're back on another drug.  

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hayduke

That's all fair.  I would not want to reinstate unless I was concerned about full blown psychosis reemerging from days of no sleep, or possibly the risk of losing a job you were dependent on.

 

It sounds like the Latuda may manage your symptoms for now.

 

If you did find you needed to reinstate, I will note that when I tapered below about 1.4mg of olanzapine the major sleep inducing effects of the drug no longer seem present.  I'd still start at 1mg as the others suggested if you do go this route.  YMMV, with the other drugs that might suffice. 

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Eligibly

About 6 months before I tried Latuda they took me off Olanzapine to try a different antipsychotic called Haldol for a few weeks and I couldn't sleep that time either. They didn't taper my Olanzpaine at all that time. Haldol gave me horrible EPS and restless leg sydrome side effects so they then put me back at 15mg Olanzapine and it was a long time before I could sleep again, I can't remember how long but I think it was quite a while, I think a month or so. Then a few months after things got better they then decided to transition me to Latuda.  After I was on Latuda I started to taper my Olanzapine. When that happened I noticed sleeping problems at 2.5mg and even a little bit at 5mg but it didn't get really bad until a few days after I completely quit. Given that experience wouldn't 1mg of Olanzapine be way to small of an amount to reinstate. I don't think 1mg would work.

 

I tried 900mcg of melatonin last night. No effect. Didn't sleep. No negative reaction either.

 

The only 2 things I've found that make me sleep so far is either Benadryl or Trazadone but I don't want to use either consistently. Plus you should take a few days between each one, they are not really compatible. My brain is capable of sleeping, it just doesn't happen naturally, has to be artificially induced. I think going back to Olanzapine may help. it's been a month since I've been off it and things couldn't get any worse, I don't sleep at all. There is no sign of improvement in the slightest. hayduke makes a good point, I don't want my lack of sleep to end in full blown psychosis.

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hayduke

As far as I know no one here has much wisdom on reinstating olanzapine after CT or fast taper.  I wouldn’t automatically assume psychosis will follow insomnia, however you obviously will want to monitor and have a plan.

 

The general experience here with reinstating is to use a small fraction of the preceding dose as per @Gridleys suggestion.  I’m on mobile but maybe one of the mods could guide you to a suitable thread.

 

My specific experience with this drug is as above, that I’d look at 1.5mg as a start for relief of sleep.  My impression is that below that you lose the sedative histamine related effect which seems the bulk of the drowsiness it induces.

 

But we can’t be sure it’ll provide sleep.  Others have had trouble here, and that’s common in fast tapers.

 

Were you sleeping acceptably on 2.5?  You mention it got harder below 5, but consider that’s likely to be the earlier parts of your fast taper catching up with you

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Gridley
17 hours ago, Eligibly said:

I don't think 1mg would work.

It might not.  But if you reinstate more than that you run a very real risk of overwhelming your very sensitized system and facing additional problems on top of your insomnia.

 

If you don't think 1mg would work I would recommend you not reinstate.  

 

 

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)
On 2/28/2020 at 1:35 PM, Eligibly said:

Given that experience wouldn't 1mg of Olanzapine be way to small of an amount to reinstate. I don't think 1mg would work.

 

On 2/29/2020 at 6:52 AM, hayduke said:

But we can’t be sure it’ll provide sleep.  Others have had trouble here, and that’s common in fast tapers.

 

On 2/28/2020 at 1:00 PM, hayduke said:

It sounds like the Latuda may manage your symptoms for now.

 

On 2/26/2020 at 11:06 PM, manymoretodays said:

I just ran the drug interaction report, here, for you Eligibility, for the now 3 medications you are using.

 

When do you take your meds?  Just note the time, then drug by name, and dosage.  Thank you.

 

On 2/27/2020 at 11:10 AM, Eligibly said:

I take 60mg of Latuda at dinner time, around 5:00ish pm. You're suppose to take it with a meal of at least 350 calories.

I take 0.125mg (1/4 of a 0.5mg pill) of clonazepam twice a day. Once in the morning around 10:00am and again in the evening around 8:00pm

My Trazodone pills are 50mg. I don't want to develop a dependence on it so I am not planning on taking Trazodone on a regular basis, I have it for those desperate times where I haven't gotten any sleep in a long time.

 

Hi Eligibility, I was just catching up on your introduction thread,

I did a lot of quotes too, as you can see.  B)

 

And okay, so I see:

10:00 am clonazepam  0.125 mg

5:00 pm Latuda 60 mg

8:00 pm clonazepam 0.125 mg

bedtime: Trazodone off and on, and melatonin 900 mcg(.9 mg)

 

drug interaction report with Zyprexa, Trazodone, and clonazepam here

Major interactions between Zyprexa and clonazepam!

Personally, I think you might do better now, with less drugs, and limiting any further additions.

I hope you don't mind me putting you in for futher input now too, from some of the other moderators.  I don't want to see you overmedicated and further confusing your nervous system now.

And then some of those moderate interactions are not so great either.

 

And anytime one gets into polypharmacy, it can complicate things quite a bit.  Especially the inability to really know which are drug interactions, which are WD's, and which are the symptoms anymore that one was trying to treat.  Hopefully that makes sense.  And then how long have you been off the Effexor now?

Can you do a signature, Eligibility? That will help us out a lot.

Please put your medication and withdrawal history in your signature

^ this will tell you more about how to do this and thank you

 

Some of the non-drug helps for Sleep: 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

That's my peep, Eligibility.  And some great input above from the members, and Gridley, off course, too!

L, P, H, and G,

mmt


 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
added a bit of a greeting after all those quotes!

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Altostrata

Hello, Eligibly. Please stop changing drugs immediately, including adding olanzapine. We don't know what's causing what.

 

I would like to see the last year of your drug history, with tapering schedules in a simple-to-follow list, please.

 

When did you start clonazepam? How long have you been taking it at least daily?

 

If sleeplessness is your main problem, it may be due to clonazepam, not olanzapine. We need to unravel this before you make any more changes.

 

As manymoretodays requested, please put a summary version of your drug history in your signature.

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ToGoodForYou

How you doing man

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