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Mimi79: Will I survive?


Mimi79

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Hello! Happy New Year!

I can't give you any advice on the cutting, as I don't have any experience with that.

I feel like I've been in a wave more or less since March and the Covid isolation started. I've just resigned myself to the fact that the wave will pass when it passes. It's not pleasant, but it is what is showing up right now. Just like you I notice that there is some variation in how bad the feelings are, and that is what gives me hope. I do get some times of not feeling quite as bad. And this might sound strange, but I don't work too hard at staying positive. I can't really change how I feel, and truthfully, feeling low is part of being human as well. I just try to take care of myself and keep moving as best as I can. Because I DO know that everything has a beginning, middle and an end. This has an end. And I will be okay whether it ends tomorrow or next year. I wanted to be off the meds because I wanted to feel like a human being again. And I am feeling all of the feelings now. Some of them I really don't like. But everyone I talk to right now has their own struggle, including plenty of challenging feelings, so even though I'm isolated, I know I'm not alone in this. And neither are you. You've got this! One moment after one moment. : )

MarieR

started 20 mg escitalopram 2011

failed CT attempt 2014 (4 months off)

back on 20 mg escitalopram 2014

began too fast taper (dr. recommendation, didn't know better) Jan. 2019

Taper: 3/4 of pill 4 weeks, 1/2 of pill 2 weeks and 1/4 of pill for 2 weeks

Off meds Mar. 7, 2019

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Hold.  It’s not about how fast you reduce.  It’s about how comfortable you are as you slowly reduce the drug.  If you go too fast, you will end up very sick.  Reductions tend to build on one another,

Hi this video proves how powerful neuroplasticity is, a women and her story     

Please know that I understand. I long for the peace I felt before being on meds. I WAS struggling with anxiety, but the anxiety symptoms I have now are like that anxiety on steroids. Just remind yours

Thank you @MarieR for your fast reply! 
And happy new year to you. As we all say, surely this one will be better than the previous one...

I am realizing something as I read you. This depression feelings are fluctuating, and it tends to worsened if I develop catastrophic thoughts about it (what I have done today). When it happens, anxiety and panic are added to depression and it is awful, like how I’m feeling right now.

And when the depression is bad, I tend to compare myself with the « Feeling good Anne-Marie », and I think « At this date last year, I was so happy, I was feeling so good, I want so bad to feel good again, will I? », and it goes like this in my head all day long... 

Dont know if there is a link, but yesterday I push hard myself to clean all the house, do the laundry, shopping and preparing a good new year eve diner for my family. Maybe this worsening depression of today is a way for my body to tell me « Hey girl, relax and take it easy now! ». What do you think?

 

I realize I have a lot of work to do in acceptance. 
 

Thank so much MarieR for your help!

 

Anne-Marie

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Hi.  I didn’t taper, but from what I have seen here, it’s not particularly odd that you had a setback after a reduction that small.  There are people who can’t taper at the 10% rate.  There are times when people who can usually handle it don’t do well with a reduction.  There are also numerous things going on around us that we don’t realize affect us until later.


 There are also waves that are much harder than others.  I have had several.  A lot of healing shows itself after the bad wave.  That’s something to “look forward to,” but thinking that never made me feel better during the wave.  This is an awful process that must occur in order for your brain to change back to the way it should be without drugs.  It is so miserable.  I’m sorry you have to endure it.  Just know you will be glad you did — someday.  
 

Maybe you should try a Brassmonkey Slide taper.  You can find info about it on this site.  It’s a more gentle taper for people who are affected by the 10% rate.  I’m not saying you will always be affected this way, but in case you hadn’t heard of the Slide, you may want to read about it.

 

Rosetta

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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3 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Maybe you should try a Brassmonkey Slide taper.  You can find info about it on this site.  It’s a more gentle taper for people who are affected by the 10% rate.  I’m not saying you will always be affected this way, but in case you hadn’t heard of the Slide, you may want to read about it.

 

Rosetta is giving sage advice, Mimi.

 

Here's information on the Brassmonkey Slide:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

You can adjust it for less than 10%. For example:

 

On 4/22/2018 at 3:07 PM, brassmonkey said:

Some people find that even on this schedule the symptom spike after each drop is just too great.  For them the answer has been to take even smaller reductions.  Any combination of four (4) small reductions and a hold can be used. A reduction of 1.25% a week will yield a total drop of 5% or a reduction of 0.625% would give a total drop of 2.5%.  A very popular method is to reduce by 1% a week. 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Anne-Marie, our memories aren't always dependable. I like to think back to this happier me from before, but it is interesting to think that I must not have been THAT happy or I wouldn't want to have given up the meds so much. There was something about me that wasn't satisfied, or I wouldn't be going through all this to be med free. Please don't do any work about acceptance. If we have to work at it, it isn't acceptance. Let your moods and emotions be as much as you can and just take each step of the day allowing things to be as they are. We don't have to accept how we feel. The most powerful thing we can do about our thoughts and moods is to see that they are always changing, shifting, moving. They are energy. Period. They come and go. The more we pay attention to them the more they'll return because they've been bookmarked by our brain as "important." Even that is okay, because they will still come and go. There is nothing we need to do. It's like weather that comes and goes. You may have pushed yourself the day before, but that's okay. I try not to get too concerned about the whys of how I'm feeling because actually nothing outside of us causes our feelings/moods/emotions. It all happens inside us. It is how we think about those things that adds to our suffering. And because our thinking isn't really under our control, it helps to not see it so personally. Our brain is just doing what it is designed to do--take in information and try to make connections/predictions to try to keep us safe. It's no different than the fact our hearts beat or our stomachs digest. If we try to control those things it doesn't work. But there is something deeper in us than our brains guiding us through this life process. Just like you didn't create your body or mind, you aren't responsible for it all. If you cut your finger it will heal just fine as long as you don't keep picking at the cut. We may not like the speed at which it happens, but our bodies are taking the pace that is built into them. Sometimes it helps me to go back and watch the videos about healing. It is not linear. It is an amazing mystery. We can't rush perfection. This too shall pass.

MarieR

started 20 mg escitalopram 2011

failed CT attempt 2014 (4 months off)

back on 20 mg escitalopram 2014

began too fast taper (dr. recommendation, didn't know better) Jan. 2019

Taper: 3/4 of pill 4 weeks, 1/2 of pill 2 weeks and 1/4 of pill for 2 weeks

Off meds Mar. 7, 2019

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Thank you all, @Rosetta, @Shep and @MarieR.

In fact, I was doing the Brassmonkey. I decreased by 2,5% each week for a total of 10%, and was starting my two weeks hold when I crashed. Even this gentle taper was too much for my CNS.  
But now, I don’t want to taper, I just want to feel good again. Taper isn’t my priority anymore...

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Hello dear Mimi

 

I remember well the first time I suddenly fell in deep black depressed feelings last year, while anxiety was my main symptom.

It can be quite distressing and surprising.

But it also shows how things are temporary, how symptoms keep changing : we are not stuck in one state, things do change. 

 

How are you doing these days?

 

Sending big hugs ❤

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) (2008 : cold turkey of both)

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (longer half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine + toothpick Paroxetine (since 20 Aug 2020) + 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

 

Website : https://selibererdelapsychiatrie.wordpress.com/

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Hi dear @Erell!

Thank you for passing by on my thread! 
You asked me how I am doing... well, I am still in this long and bad wave. It has lasted since mid-November. The worst of it was around Christmas, the week before and after to be more precise. I’ve had strong Intrusive thoughts, then strong depression, then strong anxiety and now intrusive thoughts are back. I’m so tired... 

Don’t know if I can rejoice, but it seems that my intrusive thoughts and my anxiety are lessening a bit since the last few days. They are Always there, but at a lower level. I feel more relax. I hope it is a sign that soon I will have some peace... and maybe a window.
I know I was lucky, but before this wave, I’ve never had more then 6 weeks without a clear cut window. This is the first time I’m feeling so bad for this long. And I’ve just reduced of 4,5mg. Disheartening...


I hope your wave is lessening a bit. I am thinking of you everyday and hope the best for you, you are so courageous!

 

Thank you and big hugs from Montreal...

 

Mimi79

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Daisygirlsk

Hello Mimi79!

I am also from canada. I have also suffered from intense OCD symptoms in withdrawal. My worst symptom. They come and go for me but are usually present. Infuriating. But mine also disappeared overnight a few times too. They always come back but I am sure that once recovery is achieved they will be gone for good. You cannot control them at all but you can choose not to panic. It's hard I know. I am also kindled. I believe your thoughts will disappear just as fast as they appeared. You will heal!

April 2011 - citalopram 20 mg

April 2018 - tapered in 4 weeks

Nov 2018 - reinstated 20 mg on advice of psychiatrist

Stopped 8 days later bad reaction

November 5 2020 - reinstated citalopram 0.5mg. 

November 8 2020 - went up to 1mg. 

November 10 2020 - stopped citalopram.  

December 8 2020 - reinstate 2.5mg citalopram. Stayed on until December 17

December 18 and 19 2020 - 1.75mg citalopram.

December 20 2020 - discontinue citalopram again 

Current: ativan 0.25mg in morning and at supper. 0.50mg before bed. Holding.

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@Daisygirlsk Thank you so much for your words. I feel less lonely when I see someone having the same issues. 
 

I will update how I am feeling. The last week was pretty good. Not symptom free, but they were very low and I was very hopeful that this nasty wave was coming to its end. But I don’t know why, depression feelings came back yesterday and now I am totally discouraged. I was so hopeful!! Now I am very depressed and don’t see the end of it...

 

I am questioning if the pandemic may play a bad role in this depression, as I read bad news yesterday and it amplified my depression. I am thinking if I must avoid reading the news for a while. 
 

I received my first Covid19 vaccine Thursday, does vaccine can cause uptick in symptoms?

 

mimi79

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Hi, Mimi, It goes back and forth like that.  So frustrating, but try not to be scared or discouraged.  You can’t perceive the “slightly better” symptoms each time.  Then you will  have a big wave that is worse or longer than the rest, and you will think you have lost all process. You haven’t. You still have the progress overall.

 

Hang in there, Rosetta

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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  • Administrator
14 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

I received my first Covid19 vaccine Thursday, does vaccine can cause uptick in symptoms?

 

Yes, the vaccine can cause upticks in symptoms, but they should resolve in a few days. This is from the CDC:

 

What to Expect after Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi @Shep,

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Yes, the vaccine can cause upticks in symptoms, but they should resolve in a few days. This is from the CDC:

Thank you for the link you provided me. But it describes physical symptoms. The uptick in symptoms I’m experiencing are in the psychological range. In fact, since Friday, I have depression feelings. Can it be related to the vaccine too?

 

Thank you

 

Mimi79

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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  • Administrator
26 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

Thank you for the link you provided me. But it describes physical symptoms. The uptick in symptoms I’m experiencing are in the psychological range. In fact, since Friday, I have depression feelings. Can it be related to the vaccine too?

 

What do you mean by "depression feelings"? Do you feel fatigue or are you experiencing doomsday kind of thoughts?

 

Is it related to this comment you made earlier? 

 

20 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

I am questioning if the pandemic may play a bad role in this depression, as I read bad news yesterday and it amplified my depression. I am thinking if I must avoid reading the news for a while. 
 

 

It could be a combination of both the vaccine, the pandemic's isolating effects, and the bad news you read yesterday. If so, this should all even out in time. Please do a lot of self care. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi everyone,

Really don’t know what is happening to me.

Last week, I was expecting the end of this nasty wave, as my symptoms were much more tolerable. 
But now, I’m in a very bad place. Since Saturday, I have hopelessness feelings, and now crippling anxiety and a big fear that I won’t be able to get through it. I don’t understand what I have done wrong... I sleep well, try to eat well. I avoid as much as I can stressful situations. 
It has been 2 months now that I try to stabilize and don’t see any improvement. When I see some, few days later I am back at square one... 

I am so afraid that I won’t make it, it invades my mind. I am so tired to feel like that. I feel trapped. Is it the Mirtazapine that cause that? Is it the little decrease I’ve made 2 months ago? What should I do? 
 

Thank you for listening...

 

Mimi79

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Hello,
I'm sorry you are struggling. If it's any consolation, this has been my reality since May. I feel many times during the day that I don't know what is wrong with me. Every day I am surfing either scary, depressing thinking waves or unpleasant physical symptoms waves or both. All while being totally isolated due to the pandemic, so there's no one in my home to even talk to.  It's scary, for sure. But it is JUST THINKING. There's nothing we can do to control our thinking. No matter how careful we are, there will always be thoughts and feelings we don't like. This is part of being human and will happen whether or not we are in withdrawal. Withdrawal, I feel, just makes it feel more intense sometimes. All I can really offer is to not worry about the why so much. If you are going to get off the meds you will need to endure hard things. That is just the way it is. None of us went on the meds knowing what we were in for to get off of them. All of us are suffering in some way or another. The more energy we put into analyzing/controlling our thoughts and trying to stop what we feel, the worse it becomes. So, just know that nothing lasts forever. If your brain is telling you that, it is not true. Your brain does not know the future. It can't even tell you what will happen in the next minute. Be skeptical about what you think. You don't have to believe any of it. I keep this quote to remind me: "If you quit now, you'll end up right back where you first began. And when you first began, you were desperate to be where you are right now." I wanted to be off of meds. I didn't do it right because I didn't know better and neither did my doctor. But I'm off. Going back is not an option. So, I'll endure what I need to endure to get to the other side. On minute, one hour at a time. I hope this helps, if for no other reason than to know you're not alone.

MarieR

started 20 mg escitalopram 2011

failed CT attempt 2014 (4 months off)

back on 20 mg escitalopram 2014

began too fast taper (dr. recommendation, didn't know better) Jan. 2019

Taper: 3/4 of pill 4 weeks, 1/2 of pill 2 weeks and 1/4 of pill for 2 weeks

Off meds Mar. 7, 2019

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Hi @MarieR,

Thank you so much, you are always there to encourage me.

I think I have been lucky, because before this wave I’m in, the waves I had didn’t last more than 6 weeks and I had plenty of good windows.
This is the first time I don’t have any windows and it last for so long. I am shocked, because this is not I was used to. 

I am continuously comparing this actual wave with the others I’ve had in the past and it is almost the worst.

Did you have some windows since May? Do you feel that some symptoms are improving?

 

Thank you again!

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Yes, I have had windows. But it's more like I have waves and windows in each day rather than a stretch of time where it's only windows (or only waves). So there are some hours where I feel okay in each day. I have lots of unpleasant thinking, but for part of every day the thoughts just look silly. Then two hours later they can seem so real that they make me cry and have panic attacks.  I'm just learning to know that none of it lasts and not to get to caught up when it's a wave. It can't be permanent when it keeps moving. I don't know a lot about the healing process other than that it is different for different people and isn't linear. And that is what I think helps me most. Just because it was a certain way before doesn't mean it will continue to be that way. And eventually things will settle. I think that all of this isolation has made the healing process harder, because I am a person who enjoys working with others and I miss that interaction more than I can say. It gives me too much time to think about how I'm doing--which is not healthy for me. So, learning to not hang on each and every thought has helped. Thank you for asking, : )

MarieR

started 20 mg escitalopram 2011

failed CT attempt 2014 (4 months off)

back on 20 mg escitalopram 2014

began too fast taper (dr. recommendation, didn't know better) Jan. 2019

Taper: 3/4 of pill 4 weeks, 1/2 of pill 2 weeks and 1/4 of pill for 2 weeks

Off meds Mar. 7, 2019

Link to post

Hi @MarieR

1 hour ago, MarieR said:

I am a person who enjoys working with others and I miss that interaction more than I can say. It gives me too much time to think about how I'm doing--which is not healthy for me.

I am the same, as talking and being with my friends, my families are precious moments for me that bring me a lot of joy and a feeling of being part of a community. Now that I can’t see my relatives and can’t have lunch with my friends, it has removed one of my main source of happiness in my life. 
I know it doesn’t help my recovery. 
And I am someone that don’t like to stay at home. I always need to do things outside my home in order to evade from my mind. 
Now that I am stuck here, it is very hard as I can’t escape my feelings. I have to face them and it is so hard...

I know that I need to learn to not depend on others to feel contentment. I need to find joy and peace within me. If I could achieve this goal on day, I will be more prepared to face WD and the pandemic...

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

Link to post

I so get that. But here's what I've found. I have tried to run from my feelings. I have tried to distract from my feelings and I have tried to medicate my feelings. None of them are long term solutions. So, just like you...all I have left is being with my feelings. But you know what we get to discover? All we are really afraid of is our feelings. And our feelings can't hurt us. It's like being afraid of a shadow. I get sucked in to that fear regularly. But I am starting to see that I can live through it regardless. And so we will both be stronger and healthier when we get to return to being out of isolation. : )

MarieR

started 20 mg escitalopram 2011

failed CT attempt 2014 (4 months off)

back on 20 mg escitalopram 2014

began too fast taper (dr. recommendation, didn't know better) Jan. 2019

Taper: 3/4 of pill 4 weeks, 1/2 of pill 2 weeks and 1/4 of pill for 2 weeks

Off meds Mar. 7, 2019

Link to post

Hi Mimi. As a fellow Mirt taperer I can tell you that whenever I cut (about 3%-5% per month) I get hit with a couple symptoms. My stomach starts giving me issues, I feel a bit dizzy, and I get a bit depressed. I don't like them but they are tolerable. Mirt is a bugger of a drug to taper but it can be done. Maybe cut a smaller amount next time and see how you do. I'm rooting for you. Feel better. Marie.

10/13--10/14 Ambien. Started tapering 1/14  Jumped 10/14.  Done.                                                                              

3/14        7.5 Remeron  still taking this.                              

2/14         75 Trazodone   -    Tapered by dry cutting all the way down.

1/16        4 mg Trazodone  -  Jumped. Bad mistake. Got hit with late withdrawal 6 weeks later. Had to reinstate.

4/16        Reinstated 1 mg, updose to 2 mg Trazodone

2/19        .04 Trazodone. Walked off.  Done.

10/3/19  Started 7.5 Mirtazapine taper cut to .073 gram weight, pill weighs .076

4/5/20    New Mirtazapine Taper - Compound Liquid 7.35 mg April '20, 7.25 mg May, 7.05 mg June, 6.99 mg June, 6.78 mg July, 6.57 mg Aug, Sept 6.35 mg, Sept 6.24 mg, Sept 6.21 mg, Oct 5.99 mg, Oct 5.90 mg, Oct 5.70 mg.

1/11/21 6.05 mg Messed up taper due to syringe change. Must remember the 1 ml syringe contains 1.5mg! 1/16/21 5.99 mg Mirt

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

A little update. 
I’m still in the roller coaster of this unrelenting wave, but, I am afraid of being too much optimistic, but I think I’ve seen some couple days of good improvements last week.

It didn’t last long, maybe 4-5 days, but I was feeling more stable and definitely less anxiety and obsessive thoughts. I had more energy and was able to make some small projects for the future.

Unfortunately, since Monday, I am back in my old pattern of symptoms, some anxiety, then obsessive thoughts, then depression. Today is a depressed day. I still struggle to keep faith during those time. I was expecting the end of this wave and it seems it is not for now... so sad...


 

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

Link to post

@ten0275 

Hi Dave, 

I need your good words, as I am struggling a lot these days.

I am in the same wave since mid-November. I have seen some little improvements in the last 3 weeks, but it was very small improvements, and now I’m almost at square one with my obsessive thoughts. 
This is far the longest wave I’ve ever had and I don’t really understand why I am stuck in this state! In the past, I was used to have intermittent windows and now it’s almost constant symptoms with very few relief...

I try to push myself at work and in my everyday life, but I feel more and more desperate and tired. So tired.

I have this awful feeling that I won’t recover and that those obsessive thoughts will always be there.

I suppose I need some reassurance and encouragement, to be listen, as I face alone the hardest time since a while. 
 

Thank you 

 

Anne-Marie


 

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
21 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

@ten0275 

Hi Dave, 

I need your good words, as I am struggling a lot these days.

I am in the same wave since mid-November. I have seen some little improvements in the last 3 weeks, but it was very small improvements, and now I’m almost at square one with my obsessive thoughts. 
This is far the longest wave I’ve ever had and I don’t really understand why I am stuck in this state! In the past, I was used to have intermittent windows and now it’s almost constant symptoms with very few relief...

I try to push myself at work and in my everyday life, but I feel more and more desperate and tired. So tired.

I have this awful feeling that I won’t recover and that those obsessive thoughts will always be there.

I suppose I need some reassurance and encouragement, to be listen, as I face alone the hardest time since a while. 
 

Thank you 

 

Anne-Marie


 

 

@Mimi79

Hi Anne-Marie,

I'm sorry to hear about your long-running wave - that must be so difficult to deal with every day. I'm glad to hear you've seen even little improvements in the last three weeks. In withdrawal for me, any "change" - bit or small - always meant the possibility of healing. I was always reassured by changes - because it told me my nervous system was still trying to figure things out - and it did figure things out.

 

That said, please be assured by the fact that I had times of being "stuck" too. Where the windows and waves were not obvious. I felt like I was locked into a very, very difficult time. It will shift, but not knowing when is always very hard, I know.

 

I can tell that you are someone that holds yourself to a very high standard of achievement - in work, in family life, and in every day life. As  much as you can, be gentle in the way you "push" to do the things you have to do. And most of all, realize that the fact that you are doing what you do, despite the symptoms you have, is an amazing feat of your endurance and strength.

 

You are moving in the right direction.

 

Hang in there,

Dave

1996 - .5mg Ativan as needed, 7.5mg Remeron daily2008 - .5mg Xanax, Ativan discontinued, Remeron continued2012 - .5mg Xanax, .25mg Ativan 3x daily, Remeron continued2/2012 - Jumped from Remeron, continued .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily4/2012 - Began rapid taper of .5mg Xanax .25mg Ativan 3x daily6/2012 - Jumped from Xanax and Ativan, voluntary hospitalization followed7/2012 - 2nd voluntary hospitalization, reinstated Remeron, bumped to 30mg, also given risperidone.8/2012 - discontinued risperidone, tried gabapentin, dicontinued gabapentin, Remeron 30mg continued10/2012 to current - tapered Remeron 10% every 4 to 6 weeks (sometimes more time) using liquid compound12/2014 - 2mg Remeron 1/16/2015 - 1.9mg Remeron 8/1/2015 -1.6mg Remeron - 03/1/2016 - 1.5mg Remeron - 1/2/2017 1.3mg - 5/7/2017 1.2mg - 5/13/2017 - syringe size change - 6/8/2017 - 1.1mg - 7/10/2017 - 1mg - 9/1/2017 - 0.9mg - 10/22/2017 - 0.8mg - 11/22/2017 - 0.7mg - 2/2/2018 - 0.6mg - 3/13/2018 - new compound pharmacy - 5/20/2018 - 0.5mg - 8/31/2018 - 0.4mg - 11/16/2018 - 0.3mg - 12/24/2018 - 0.2mg - 4/1/2019 - 0.1mg - 5/1/2019 - .05mg - 0mg achieved 2019-06-15. 🤞

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Hi everyone,

I write this as I feel more and more hopeless.

As mentioned above, I am still in a wave since mid-november, and it really doesn’t seem to abate. 
I had some better moments in the last month, but they were very short lived. And it wasn’t really a clear cut window. 
For the last 2-3 days, I’ve been in a deep depression state that is worst then ever. 
I try to keep pushing to go to work and take care of my kids, but it is so difficult. I don’t know how to cope and I feel more and more tired of this. And I am afraid that it will get worst and worst.

My question is, Did I do something wrong? Is it something I could do to improve?

Remember that this wave started just after I made my first 10% cut from 45mg. Since then, I’ve updose a little bit to help, I am now around 42,5mg since the last 4 weeks. 
Should I updose again or it is useless at this point? 
Thank you for your help.

 

Mimi79

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

Link to post

@DataGuy

I read what you said on Nikki74 Thread, and you seem to have some knowledge about Mirtazapine. If you don’t mind, I would like to have some insight from you about this drug.

I have a lot of difficulties tapering it, as you can see in my last posts, and don’t understand why.

In all the years I’ve been on antidepressants, I’ve stop numerous ADs, almost all SSRI and didn’t have much problems. I’ve even stopped  Effexor in 2018, and didn’t have any major issues. 
Now, with Mirtazapine, it is an all different story! Even a small cut throw me in acute withdrawal. I can’t believe it! 
I would like to understand this huge difference between this drug and the others I had in the past, why this one is so hard to stop...

 

Thank you a lot!

 

Mimi79

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

Link to post
  • Moderator

Hi @Mimi79,

 

That is a fairly high dose of mirtazapine. What happens when you try to taper? What symptoms do you experience normally vs when you try to taper?

 

Do you find this dose sedating?

 

I know that some people are able to cold turkey benzodiazepines or antidepressants once or twice and experience no consequences, but the third time they are hit very hard with withdrawal symptoms. In medicine, a risk factor for a medically risky alcohol withdrawal is if the person previously had a difficult withdrawal. The same may apply to these drugs. I see that you have stopped and started a number of different meds. This might be a factor in how difficult the mirtazapine withdrawal is. 

 

Often people find higher doses of mirtazapine activating rather than sedating, as I explained on Nikki's thread. The noradrenergic effect becomes dominant over the antihistamine effect.

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

Link to post

Hi @DataGuy,

Thank you for your help!

 

2 hours ago, DataGuy said:

 

That is a fairly high dose of mirtazapine. What happens when you try to taper? What symptoms do you experience normally vs when you try to taper?

When I try to taper, after maybe one month, I start to have some symptoms, usually anxiety, depression, but the worst for me, intrusive thoughts.  Each time I tried to stop it, it was almost the same.  
Before tapering, Mirtazapine didn’t cause me any big symptoms. Of course, at this dose, I don’t feel any sedative effect. Is it activating? Maybe a bit, but before WD, it wasn’t a problem. 
 

I know that the more you stop AD, the more you will have some difficulties, but I stopped numerous ADs before Mirt, like 5, and I didn’t see any difference between them. Even with the last one I tapered in 2018 (Effexor). And now with Mirtazapine, the difference is so huge! 
 

You said that your Mirtazapine taper was very hard, what kind of symptoms did you have?

 

Thank you so much!

 

Mimi

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

Link to post

Hi everyone 

I need some help. 
I did a blood test today, and it came back with some deficiencies. My ferritin level is too low and I know this means I have some anemia, as it is a well known problem since my teenage years. It would be the first time I have to take iron supplement during WD. What kind of supplement should I take?
And can anemia exacerbate  WD symptoms? 

Another question, I have a low level of D vit too. Should I take a supplement or try to eat some food that contains D vit.?

Thank you very much!

 

Anne-Marie

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

Link to post
  • Moderator

Hello dear Mimi

 

Unfortunately I don't think anybody can predict how an individual body will react to supplements.

 

As you probably already know, if you introduce something, start one at a time and at low doses to see if it suits you.

 

1. -vitamin-d3-cholecalciferol-or-calcitriol

 

2. ferritin-too-low-iron-supplements-anemia/

 

Sending you lot of support (and bird's song, there are many this morning !) ❤

 

Ps : sorry I didn't answer your pm earlier. To my knowledge, there are no document in French that explain or describe WD syndrome.

 

 

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) (2008 : cold turkey of both)

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (longer half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine + toothpick Paroxetine (since 20 Aug 2020) + 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

 

Website : https://selibererdelapsychiatrie.wordpress.com/

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  • Moderator
On 2/16/2021 at 7:46 PM, Mimi79 said:

Hi @DataGuy,

Thank you for your help!

 

When I try to taper, after maybe one month, I start to have some symptoms, usually anxiety, depression, but the worst for me, intrusive thoughts.  Each time I tried to stop it, it was almost the same.  
Before tapering, Mirtazapine didn’t cause me any big symptoms. Of course, at this dose, I don’t feel any sedative effect. Is it activating? Maybe a bit, but before WD, it wasn’t a problem. 
 

I know that the more you stop AD, the more you will have some difficulties, but I stopped numerous ADs before Mirt, like 5, and I didn’t see any difference between them. Even with the last one I tapered in 2018 (Effexor). And now with Mirtazapine, the difference is so huge! 
 

You said that your Mirtazapine taper was very hard, what kind of symptoms did you have?

 

Thank you so much!

 

Mimi

 

 

Hi @Mimi79,

 

Sorry for the delay. When I was taking Mirtazapine, I realized it was causing a dysphoric feeling for me, so reducing it was actually a bit of a relief for me, but it did cause some quite severe withdrawal symptoms, mainly insomnia, anxiety, gastro upset, muscle weakness and some cognitive problems.

 

Did you say that your withdrawal symptoms are delayed for a month after you reduce the drug? Do they continue to intensify after they come on? Is there anything that helps relieve them? 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

Link to post
1 hour ago, DataGuy said:

 

Did you say that your withdrawal symptoms are delayed for a month after you reduce the drug? Do they continue to intensify after they come on? Is there anything that helps relieve them? 

@DataGuy, thank you for your help.

Yes, when I started to reduce the drug, the symptoms appeared one month after the first cut. And one week after the last one (I was doing the Brassmonkey slide). 
They intensified for one another month and now it’s been 3 months and I don’t see any relief. I’ve had maybe 5-6 better days during the last month, but now I am back at square one. Intrusive thoughts are far my worst symptom. I have a lot of difficulties to cope with them. 
I haven’t found a way to relieve from it. 
I feel more and more hopeless, because it doesn’t seem to abate and I have no windows. I am so tired.

 

Thank you again.

Mimi79

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

Link to post

Is it normal to be more than 3 months without having any windows? I’ve never had such long time without seeing improvements, and I’m afraid to be stuck like this. Each evening when I go to bed, I hope that those awful feelings will dissipate overnight, but the next morning I wake up in this awful state and I’m discouraged. Except few days last month, I haven’t seen any improvement in those 3 months since my tapper attempt.
Has anyone ever experienced this?
I need some hope, please. 
Thank you.

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Hi @wantrelief

Sorry for my English, French is my first language.

I was reading your thread and I found some echoes of my own story. 
In November, After only one month of a taper, I crashed badly. I updose a little bit and tried to stabilize, but now it has been 3 months and I don’t see any improvements, apart maybe 5-6 days in the last month.

I can barely fonction and I am very hopeless, and this is where your story gave me some hope! I didn’t know that I could tapered even if I am not able to reach real stability. 
It makes me think that maybe I am too in tolerance from the ADs.

So I would like to have your insight about this experience. Are you seeing some improvements? And is it difficult to taper even if not feeling well? Did you have improvements along the way?
Thank you so much for giving me some information about this process. 

Anne-Marie
 

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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Hi Anne-Marie (what a beautiful name!)

 

Please don't apologize for your English - it is really good and I think it is amazing you can communicate in another language!

 

I am so sorry you are struggling after commencing a taper and not reaching any real stability now after 3 months of holding post-updose.  

 

3 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Are you seeing some improvements?

 

3 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Did you have improvements along the way?

I am now finally feeling better but it took a really long time of very slow tapering to get here.  I didn't notice any improvements along the way.....everyday was pretty much the same (well, somedays worse than others) until suddenly I felt better - it happened really suddenly, pretty much overnight!  

 

3 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

And is it difficult to taper even if not feeling well?

It hasn't been too bad tapering.  I would sometimes feel worse, as I mentioned, but mostly I felt the same as I was before tapering (which was really unwell). I do get a lot of headaches from tapering so that has been really challenging at times.

 

I think it is hard to know if you are in tolerance or not given you had been reducing when you "crashed" and have seen some improvements, albeit slow, with holding. I think ideally one would be stable whilst tapering but there are some circumstances where we don't have a choice, unfortunately. You might want to wait it out a bit longer to see if things get better and if not, you could try a very small cut to see how it goes.

 

It is really hard sometimes to know what to do and it feels like there are no good options.  It was really scary (terrifying really) to start a taper feeling so unwell.  Frankly, it still is scary as I don't know if this better baseline is going to continue or not.  The uncertainty in all of this is really really challenging.  However, we can all gather strength from the knowledge that ultimately we do heal.

 

I hope this is helpful in some way to you and I am really happy my story provided some hope! 

 

 

-1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper; withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD)

-10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin
-Tried several times to slowly taper Zoloft by 10%, then 5% every 4-6 weeks; could never get below approx. 40 mg - spring 2012 experienced major WD symptoms due to stress; tried to updose but no relief, back on Klonopin 1 mg.
-Switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to Citalopram. Finished Zoloft 1/13; Citalopram 35 mg and 1 mg Klonopin.
-8/13: 27 mg Citalopram; 1 mg Klonopin

-11/14: 12.6 Citalopram - began to have bad withdrawal symptoms; out of desperation increased to 1.25 mg Klonopin at the beginning of December.  12/13/14 16 mg Citalopram - going to stay here to try to stabilize; stabilized on 16 mg Citalopram after 4-5 months

-7/15 - 3/16: reduced to 15 mg; ~ 2 months later w/d hit hard (probably r/t stress); 6/16 updosed to 20 mg Citalopram and trying to stabilize. Updosed to 1.5 Klonopin as well. Stabilized on 20 mg Citalopram after 4-5 months

8/17-9/17: feeling withdrawal symptoms at 20 mg Citalopram (due to stress) - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?)  - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg).

Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin

Citalopram taper:  2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg

2021: 1/3/21: 7.8 mg (1.27% drop); 1/24/21: 7.7 mg (1.29%); 1/31/21: 7.6 mg (1.17%); 2/7/21: 7.5 mg (1.19%); 2/14/21: 7.4 mg (1.34%)

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Thank you so much, dear @wantrelief

 

4 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

You might want to wait it out a bit longer to see if things get better and if not, you could try a very small cut to see how it goes.

Yes I definitely want to stabilize some more months, in hope that I could come back to the beautiful baseline where I was before this crash. But as I wasnt seeing any option, your story has brought me to realize that there can be more options in front of me. I have put a mark on my calendar, when I will be 5 months past my little updose. At this point, if I dont see any change for the best, I will consider a little cut. On my previous taper attempts, I was able to reach stability after 2-4 months.

 

Thank you so much for your help and I hope this window you are living now, is the beginning of a wonderful healing.

 

Anne-Marie

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015-2018: Pristiq 50mg and Mirtazapine 30mg. Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine.

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 2 weeks. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg and Lorazepam 0.5mg PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped both.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, Melatonin2mg, Probiotic.

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