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Mimi79: Will I survive?


Mimi79

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On 3/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, Mimi79 said:

If I choose this option, why can’t I stop the Ativan first before the Mirtazapine? I know you often suggest to taper the activating drug first, but mirtazapine is not exactly an activating one.

 

You should taper the drug that helps you sleep last. Sleep is a priority. 

 

 

On 3/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, Mimi79 said:

And if I want to take it everyday until I taper, what dose should I take? I don’t want to take the full 0,5mg each day.

 

You would take the lowest effective dose. If less than 0.5 mg works for you, then you could take less. 

 

On 3/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, Mimi79 said:

If I take this option, do you think it will lessen  the WD symptoms I seem to have when I try to stop it? 

 

This option (referring to the rapid taper discussion) is unpredictable because you don't know how dependent you are on this drug. If you experience problems with the first 25% reduction, I would go back up and stay on it and taper the benzo last. 

 

By continuing to experiment, you risk kindling your nervous system. This is more dangerous than going on the benzo and staying on it to taper last. Kindling is damage to the nervous system due to repeated withdrawal attempts.

 

On 3/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, Mimi79 said:

Last question, would it be a good idea to switch now on a longer half-life, like Klonopin? 

 

 

17 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

I know I have to choose a dose and take it everyday at the same time. I figured that 0,15mg could be something good, because I have took it every 3 days, it is 0,5mg/3.

What do you think about it?

 

I'm connecting these two questions:

 

I would find the lowest effective dose for sleep and take that every night. It sounded like you were taking this drug more often than every 3 days because earlier you wrote about having to take it every 36 hours to deal with the intense withdrawal symptoms. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. 

 

Crossing over to Klonopin means going into withdrawal from Ativan. Hopefully the Klonopin will cover the withdrawal, but they are two different drugs that are in the same class. So it's an unknown. 

 

Since you didn't experience a lot of withdrawal symptoms until you were 36 hours out, you may be a slow metabolizer of this drug and closer to the 20 hour half-life than the 10 hour (Ativan has a half-life from 10 - 20 hours depending on your metabolism). So you may be okay staying on this drug as opposed to switching to a longer half-life. 

 

And since you know it works for sleep, it may be worth staying on Ativan. 

 

17 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

So I think the best thing for me is to do a slow taper, because if I understand well, once we are hooked, we are hooked. 

 

This sounds like a reasonable plan. And you're right - once we are hooked, we are hooked.

 

The goal now is to be strategic in planning how to handle the taper of all drugs involved in your cocktail in order to preserve sleep.

 

17 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Even if I seem to be dependent, because I am a short user, do you think I could do a taper a little more faster than 10% per month? 

 

You said it best - once we are hooked, we are hooked. I would go with 10% or less and taper the benzo last. The goal is functionality, not speed. There's no prize for those who get off the fastest. 

 

 

On 3/2/2021 at 9:25 AM, Mimi79 said:

Another reason why I would like to stop it as soon as possible, is that I have a bad experience in the past with long use of Benzo. Their depression symptoms always it me hard when I use it on a long period. 

 

While benzos are nervous system depressants and can definitely cause this feeling of depression, so can insomnia. So if the benzo is granting you sleep, you likely will still feel less depressed - or at least less fatigued - than if you don't sleep. 

 

Just a thought.  A lot of these symptoms are like dominos and crash into and cause other symptoms. 

 

Please let us know what you decide to do with the two options we've been discussing:

 

  • If you try the rapid taper and experience problems after the first 25% reduction, I would updose and stay on the benzo until you're off the antidepressant. I would decrease by 25% and then hold for 2 days, that way you can see how you do once that 36 hour hits (since you have a history of feeling withdrawal at that point). 

 

  • If you decide to stay on the benzo long term, pick the lowest effect dose that allows you to sleep. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Dear @Mimi79   Yes you will survive, you've already survived 100% of your bad days, you just have to keep going.   You didn't ruin your life in 2 days, and your life is not over.

Hi this video proves how powerful neuroplasticity is, a women and her story     

Hold.  It’s not about how fast you reduce.  It’s about how comfortable you are as you slowly reduce the drug.  If you go too fast, you will end up very sick.  Reductions tend to build on one another,

  • Administrator
32 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

I have a doubt. I said in one of my previous message that I have bad experiences with 

Z-drug and Benzo used on a day to day basis. 
It happened to me once with Klonopin and later with Zopiclone. I had a bad reaction after few weeks of regular use. The symptoms were basically deep  Depression and strong Akathisia. It was happening around the third or fourth week of use. 

 

When were you on these drugs? Please add them to your signature:

 

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

Were you making any other drug changes at this time? 

 

When dealing with polypharmacy, it's natural to look for one drug that's causing the problem, but it may be the mix, it may be recent changes, it may be adverse reactions. 

 

It's possible that you may not be a good responder to benzos when used regularly, so it would be good if you can provide more detail - such as dates and doses - of the klonopoin and z-drugs. 

 

Also, I just noticed you have 2 mg melatonin in your signature. That may be too high a dose. Please read the first post in this thread. Too much can cause paradoxical reactions and also, feelings of depression and weepiness. 

 

Melatonin for sleep

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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@Shep

Thank you so much! 

 

3 minutes ago, Shep said:

When were you on these drugs? Please add them to your signature:


The reason why it doesn’t appear in my signature is because it was long time ago.

 

My bad reaction to klonopin was in 2010. I was using it along with Serax (another Benzo) and Celexa. I started having deep depression with SI within few days, 5 weeks after I started using it. Immediately after I stopped, all those symptoms disappeared.

 

The bad reaction to Zopiclone happened in 2019. I’ve removed it from my signature because there was too much info In it, and I thought it was not important for my actual situation with Mirtazapine. This time, the bad reaction happened after only 10 days and it was almost the same (depression, aka, so, etc). Those symptoms disappeared once I stopped the drug. I was on mirtazapine at the same time.
 

I just want to précise that usually I don’t have problem with my sleep. I wasn’t taking Ativan for that purpose. I was taking it for anxiety. In fact, I rarely use melatonin.

 

So do you think I am at risk of having that kind of problem?

 

Mimi

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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  • Administrator
20 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

So do you think I am at risk of having that kind of problem?

 

I don't know, Mimi. You were on a different antidepressant back then, so it could have been the combination.

 

You'll have to decide if the possible side effects of being on a benzo are worse than upticks in symptoms from doing a rapid taper and getting off it now. 

 

These threads can help with learning non-drug ways of coping:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Yoga for sleep, insomnia, or deep relaxation

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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I really need some encouragement. I have the feeling my life have fall appart since the last 10 days... 

I still cannot believe what is happening to me...

It took only 2 Ativan 0,5mg at 2 days apart to become dependent! So now I am stuck with this new big problem, another pills to WD from, one or two more years before ending my nightmare...

I am in shock!!! I am so, so, so angry at myself!! I knew it was playing with fire (but wasn’t aware it could happen so rapidly!!).

It could have been avoided very easily, as it was possible for me to support the symptoms without taking anything else... it was hard, but doable... Oh I am so stupid!!! I cannot believe what I did! So, so stupid me!!!

Don’t ever, ever touch to any Benzo!! 

 

I have the feeling my life is over... I’ve ruined my life in two days... with two little white pills... I am so desperate!! 
 

@ShepI think I don’t have any choice but to taper. I don’t want to broke my CNS. I have the feeling it is a death sentence, this is how I feel! 
I will try to stabilize on 0,18mg Ativan per day. For the moment, I have some symptoms, but they seems manageable. And I can sleep almost of the time.

I will do a taper 10% per month when I am able to, in hope I won’t develop adverse reaction like in my past use with Benzo, because if so, I won’t have the choice to C/T, and this will be the end of my life...

 

Thank you for your help.

I haven’t feel so desperate in all my life...

mimi

 

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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  • Moderator

Dear @Mimi79

 

Yes you will survive, you've already survived 100% of your bad days, you just have to keep going.

 

You didn't ruin your life in 2 days, and your life is not over.

 

You are having a really hard time, and I'm sorry we have to go through these kind of days and feelings.

But we do. A lot of people do and survive, and heal and go on with their lives.

Because all of this is just temporary, there are no life sentences.

 

I know how hard it is to listen to this while feeling like everything is falling apart. I do know.

But I also read stories of people with complex drug history, people who stopped,changed, updosed drugs during their lives, and yet with time and patience they do heal.

 

So no, your CNS is not broken, and no you're not facing a death sentence.

 

16 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

For the moment, I have some symptoms, but they seems manageable. And I can sleep almost of the time.

This is huge mimi, really.

You can sleep, and your symptoms seem managable.

It's ok mimi.

 

Please take extra care of yourself, listen to relaxation audio, try to feel the sun on your face, dance if you need, cry if you need.

I'm hoping you'll feel some relief soon.

 

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details topic/21457-

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

+ 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

(Toothpick Paroxetine from September 2020 to 17th March 2021)

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@Erell

Thank you so much for your good words. I have a lot of difficulties to accept the mistake I’ve made. Taking lorazepam, It could have been avoided. I am so mad at me... every minute of the day, I am thinking about it...

 

@Shep

I try to stabilize on 0,18mg lorazepam per day. It is enough to have a good night sleep, but I have symptoms of nervousness, anxiety and agitation that increase during the day, until I take my next dose. It is bearable, but I am not very fonctionnal. I feel bad during a big part of the afternoon.

Do you think I should stick with it and wait that my body adjust, or I should increase the dose a little bit? Do my body will adjust one day?

 

Thank you so much

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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@Shep

I know that with the Ativan half-life, some people take multiple doses during the day.

If I want to do so, do I simply split the dose I am already taking, or I have to up a little bit to compensate?

Thank you.

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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  • Administrator
4 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

 

 

@Shep

I try to stabilize on 0,18mg lorazepam per day. It is enough to have a good night sleep, but I have symptoms of nervousness, anxiety and agitation that increase during the day, until I take my next dose. It is bearable, but I am not very fonctionnal. I feel bad during a big part of the afternoon.

Do you think I should stick with it and wait that my body adjust, or I should increase the dose a little bit? Do my body will adjust one day?

 

Thank you so much

 

 

3 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

@Shep

I know that with the Ativan half-life, some people take multiple doses during the day.

If I want to do so, do I simply split the dose I am already taking, or I have to up a little bit to compensate?

Thank you.

 

You mentioned earlier that you increased the frequency of Ativan use because you were hitting severe withdrawal at the 36 hour mark. Since you moved to a daily dosing schedule, you reduced the amount you're taking from .50 mg to .18 mg, so you have less of the drug in your system, and this may be creating interdose symptoms earlier. You may want to increase the dose, but let's investigate a bit first. 

 

What time of the day do you start to experience symptoms of nervousness and agitation? What time(s) of the day do you take each of your drugs? Please post the time(s), drug name, and dose. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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@Shep

I will answer your question first.

I take 0,18mg Ativan at 7:30 pm. 
I take 42,7mg Remeron at 9:30pm.

 

I start to feel a little shaky around 13:00pm. It goes up until the evening. At 5:00pm, it starts to be very difficult to endure.

 

I have another question. I said to you that I am prone of having adverse effect with long term use of Benzo. Yesterday, I became very depressed during a big part of the day. And I wasn’t able to sleep last night. Today, I feel so awful, I am shaky, nervous, I have difficulties to walk, I feel like I will crumble anytime. I really don’t feel good. I was so desperate that I took a tiny little crumb of Ativan, and it didn’t alleviate the symptoms.
Do you think it could be adverse reaction from Ativan?

 

I really don’t know how I will stabilize if I feel so awful. I don’t think I will be able to return to work this week. I am desperate!

 

Thank you so much for your help!

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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@Gridley

I’ve read that you became dependent on lorazepam by using it occasionally. 
I can’t believe that I feel in this trap two weeks ago. It discouraged me a lot and I need some encouragement.

Were you able to stabilize? I have the feeling my body don’t like lorazepam. I am so discouraged! I would like to stabilize then taper it, but in the same time I am so afraid of being forced to take it everyday...

 

Thank you so much...

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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  • Moderator
Gridley
24 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

 

I’ve read that you became dependent on lorazepam

What has been your Lorazepam usage?

 

You can become dependent physiologically on a benzo like Lorazepam with 2 to 4 weeks of daily usage and also by intermittent use.  How much is intermittent use?  That varies and depends on the individual.  

 

What makes you think you're dependent at this point?  I can give you more specific information once I know the details and frequency and duration of your usage.

 

I became dependent because I started taking it every night to get sleep.  The nights I didn't take it, I didn't sleep.  Benzos are a slippery slope, and the craving for sleep was very strong.  As far as stabilizing, Lorazepam agreed with me more than the Valium I had to crossover to (no Lorazepam now here).  If it doesn't agree with you,

let's see how we can get you off it.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Thanks @Gridley

Since November and my last attempt of tapering Mirtazapine, I am in a bad wave, with a lot of anxiety. 
Mid-december, I started using lorazepam 0,5mg very occasionally (1-2 times per week, some week not a all). I was aware it was not a good idea, but I thought that using it this way, I would be ok.

2 weeks ago, my anxiety increased a lot, and during this week, I took Ativan 0,5mg at 3 occasions (Monday, Tuesday and Friday) and suddenly, that was it! I was having symptoms of interdose (big anxiety and nervosity, insomnia). It happened suddenly, within a week! With these 3 pills!!
The week before, I haven’t took any and was fine. You cannot imagine how I am mad and angry at me, because I knew the risk. I’ve been totally surprised by the rapidity of it.

Since the last 7 days (after I realized that I was hooked), I’ve been trying to find a steady dose to take everyday. I tried to take 0,18mg only per day (at night), but I seem to have symptoms that increased during the day. Maybe this dose is too small. The last couple of days have been very hard, I’ve had nervosity, insomnia, anxiety and even dark depression. I have the feeling that since I began taking it everyday (to stabilize), my mind and body are falling appart. I’ve never felt that bad of all my life! 
I have the feeling I am stuck in a nightmare and there is no way out!...

 

Thank you for helping me!!!

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post

I have a history in the past of having adverse reactions to Zdrug and Benzo, after a few weeks use. I am very afraid that those symptoms (depression, nervosity) are from Ativan and that I am beginning to have adverse reaction like it did in the past.

I am very afraid of it, because if I have those kind of reaction, I won’t have the choice of doing a C/T, and it will be hell on earth...

This is why I try desperately to stay at the lower dose possible...

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

there is no way out!..

There is a way out.  We just hav to figure out the best way out.

 

Here are some possibilities:

 

1. If you are dependent (that's still an if), you may be having interdose withdrawal (I had that on Ativan). That means the previous dose stops working.

You could try splitting your current dose into 3 equal doses evenly interspersed throughout the day. (1/3 of current dose 3 times a day).  You don't have to up the dosage.  You are very early in your use of the drug and I am hoping we can get you out without using it for a long time.

 

2.  You could try method #1 and then if that works, you could do a very slow taper. 

 

It's bedtime for me here but I will be available tomorrow as we work with this.

 

 

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

Thank you so, so much, dear @Gridley.


The reason why I thought I became dependent, it is because in the week (2 weeks ago) when I took 3 doses in the same week, exactly 36 hours after the second dose, I experienced increased nervosity, anxiety and insomnia during the night. I try to not take another one, mais after a sleepless night, I took another Ativan (third). The symptoms vanished instantly. This is where I realized I was probably having interdose withdrawal. 
I try one more time to stay away from it, but again, 36 hours later the symptoms started. 
 

I have the feeling 0,18mg isn’t enough, because with this dose (I take it at 7:30pm), the symptoms stArt in the next mid-day.

When it is time to take the next dose, my symptoms are very high.

 

Yesterday, I tried to split the dose in two during the day, but maybe it was to fast, it was my worst day ever! And I didn’t sleep last night.

And today I feel so bad, nauseated, shaky and like a general feeling of not feeling well. 
 

I hope I will find a way of felling better...

 

Another question, I would like to split the dose, but the pill is so tiny, I can barely weight it on my scale. Do I have to find a compound pharmacy to have liquid form?

 

Thank you so, so much!

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post

@Gridley

I will add something,
Tonight, thinking I was maybe low dosing (and I was desperate), I upped my dose, I took 0,25mg instead of 0,18mg. 
At first, when the drug started to kick in (after one hour), I started to feel the relaxation, but one hour later, I became nervous, jittery and maybe some mild akathesia. It seems like an adverse reaction!
I am afraid I won’t be able to sleep this night too! I am panicked!


So I think about two raisons:


1- This updose was too big? Maybe I should updose to 0,20mg instead. Or should I stay to 0,18mg?
2- I am beginning to have what I fear the most, a paradoxical reaction to Ativan...

 

My biggest fear (and just thinking about it makes me panicking), is to have a paradoxical or adverse reaction, then having to do a fast taper or C/T because of that, and being in the Benzo hell!!

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post

Addendum to the previous note...

After feeling a bit highjack 2 hours after I took 0,25mg Ativan, this symptoms lessen softly during the evening. I cross my finger it won’t prevent me to sleep.

How I interpret this, is that this « paradoxical » reaction is probably linked to the higher dose. A reason to go down to 0,18 or 0,20mg. I will see how it goes tomorrow...

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat

When making dose changes it is generally better to only make a small increase/decrease.

 

Going from 0.18mg to 0.25mg might seem like a small amount but it is actually a 38.8889% increase.

 

From 0.18mg to 0.2mg is an 11.1111% increase.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

@ChessieCat
yes I realized that after. The rule of 10% should be use to go up or to go down. 
 

 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post

@Gridley or @Shep

I will have an appointment with my doctor today and I want to know if I have to ask for a compounding pharmacy script for the Ativan. I don’t know how to ask for it, what should be the dilution, etc

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

I want to know if I have to ask for a compounding pharmacy script for the Ativan.

I'm going to bring your situation to the attention of Shep, who is very knowledgeable about benzos.

 

@ShepCould you take a look at Mimi79's situation?  It appears she's dependent on the Ativan but also may be having an adverse or paradoxical reaction to it.

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

@Gridley and @Shep

My GP didn’t believe I am dependent after a so short use. She is not very comprehensive. I just hope she will agree to fill a new prescription. 
Gridley you said yesterday that I must take my dose on multiple time during the day to alleviate the interdose withdrawal. How can I do that? Do I have to take it twice or more? It is very difficult to weight the pills, because one 0,5mgai pill weight 50mg. 
This why I wonder what could be the best way to weight it out and taper. 
 

And another question for you Gridley, which technique do you use to taper? Do you dry cut? 
 

Thank you!

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
19 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

Gridley you said yesterday that I must take my dose on multiple time during the day to alleviate the interdose withdrawal. How can I do that? Do I have to take it twice or more? It is very difficult to weight the pills, because one 0,5mgai pill weight 50mg.

I've tagged Shep to take a look at your situation.  She is more knowledgeable than I on benzos.  

 

When I was taking Ativan, I took it 3 times a day.  I used the Gemini-20 scale, crushed the tablet, then weighed each tablet's powder to get three equal doses per day, which I took at 8 hour intervals.  If your .5mg Ativan weighs 50mg, then each of your three doses would weigh 1/3 of 50mg.

 

  

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

@Shep and @Gridley

Sorry to be insistent, but I really need to stabilize as soon as possible.
I am working full time and have a lot of difficulties to cope. 

So please, Tell me what I should do and I will do it. 
If you think splitting the dose during the day could help to diminish the interdose withdrawal, I will do it as soon as possible. 
Because cutting so tiny doses it is not easy, 

splitting in two doses could be better for me, but if you think I should split it in three to feel better, I will.

 

And Gridley,

Do you think if I split the dose, the interdose symptoms will abate? Because I am still searching for the dose I must take everyday. I know it is around 0,20 and 0,25 mgai, but I don’t know which dose I have to take. 

 

Thank you so much.

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

Link to post
  • Moderator
Gridley
8 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

And Gridley,

Do you think if I split the dose, the interdose symptoms will abate? Because I am still searching for the dose I must take everyday. I know it is around 0,20 and 0,25 mgai, but I don’t know which dose I have to take. 

I can't predict whether or not they will abate.  They did for me.  Because of the relatively short half life of Ativan, you would do better to take it 3 times a day.

 

If liquid Ativan is available in Canada, that would be a good method.  If not, a compounding pharmacy (for which you would need a prescription) would be better than weighing powder.

 

If you will look at ChessieCat's previous post, she recommends .20 rather than the very large updose of .25.  So you would split whatever daily dose you choose into 3 equal doses.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to post

@Gridley

How do I proceed to split the dose? I mean, do I have to start with one split then the other?

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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@brassmonkey

I have a little question. I need to taper my Ativan pills. I have to split the dose during the day. 
The Ativan pills (0,5mgai) weight only 50mg. 
Actually, I am dry cutting the pills. Is it better to crush and make a powder or I can continue to dry cut? Do the active ingredients are evenly mix in the pills?

Thank you.

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

Yes, the active ingredient is evenly distributed through out the pill. Continuing to dry cut shouldn't be a problem. Crushing into a powder should work fine also. If crushed there would be a possibility of the dose hitting a little faster and possibly harder when you take it because the powder will absorb a bit faster.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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@Gridley

Today, as soon as the interdose withdrawal began, a depression feeling has invaded my mind. I am a little bit afraid of this symptom as I have it more since the last 2 weeks, since I have become dependent to Ativan (and take it more often). I am so afraid of this symptom. Do you think if I spread the dose during the day, it will fade? 

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat

Ativan has a half life of about 12 hours.  By taking half of the daily dose 12 hours apart the drug will be kept at a more consistent level in the body.

 

See the graph here.  It is for Cymbalta, an antidepressant which also has a half life of about 12 hours.

 

☼-scallywag-cymbalta-skipping-doses-didnt-work-time-to-taper

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator
Gridley
13 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Do you think if I spread the dose during the day, it will fade? 

 

13 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Do you think if I spread the dose during the day, it will fade? 

I don't know.  Spreading the dose is intended to relieve anxiety from the Ativan wearing off.  Benzos like Ativan, regardless of whether you spread the dose or take it all at one time, can have a depressive effect.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • Administrator
On 3/1/2021 at 10:10 PM, Mimi79 said:

And I was wondering, even if I wasn’t a regular user of Ativan before last week, I drink some Valerian root infusion almost every night. Do you think It can interfere with the Ativan?

 

Mimi, did you stop the Valerian or are you still taking it? Did your dose change? 

 

What time(s) of the day are you taking it (if you're still on it)? 

 

On 3/8/2021 at 5:03 PM, Mimi79 said:

I take 0,18mg Ativan at 7:30 pm. 
I take 42,7mg Remeron at 9:30pm.

 

I start to feel a little shaky around 13:00pm. It goes up until the evening. At 5:00pm, it starts to be very difficult to endure.

 

I think you decreased the Ativan too drastically. You were taking 0.50 mg Ativan periodically and not having interdose symptoms for 36 hours. 

 

You may want to increase the dose until you can sleep and add in an amount in the morning. You could space it 12 hours apart. 

 

Even if it's closer to the 0.50 mg mark than the 0.18 mg mark, it's still better than continuing to experiment. These abrupt changes can lead to kindling. 

 

Please let us know how you're doing and what you decide to do with the dose. I wish we could give you an exact amount, but you'll have to choose based on your ability to sleep. And then navigate your way through side effects such as depression. 

 

Please do work on non-drug coping skills as you navigate your way through this. That means guided sleep meditations, learning breathing techniques, etc. You can do this, but I would learn to float and breathe through these intense symptoms. 

 

On 3/8/2021 at 5:03 PM, Mimi79 said:

I have another question. I said to you that I am prone of having adverse effect with long term use of Benzo. Yesterday, I became very depressed during a big part of the day. And I wasn’t able to sleep last night. Today, I feel so awful, I am shaky, nervous, I have difficulties to walk, I feel like I will crumble anytime. I really don’t feel good. I was so desperate that I took a tiny little crumb of Ativan, and it didn’t alleviate the symptoms.
Do you think it could be adverse reaction from Ativan?

 

Are you still having this adverse effect or was it a one-off? 

 

Are you able to schedule a few days off from work to give yourself some much needed down time? 

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Hi @Shep

I am so happy to read you. I feel so hopeless!

I will answer to your questions:

8 minutes ago, Shep said:

Mimi, did you stop the Valerian or are you still taking it? Did your dose change? 

No, I don’t take it anymore. I finished the box 2 weeks ago.

 

9 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

I think you decreased the Ativan too drastically. You were taking 0.50 mg Ativan periodically and not having interdose symptoms for 36 hours. 

 

You may want to increase the dose until you can sleep and add in an amount in the morning. You could space it 12 hours apart. 

I think you are right. With 0,18mg, I am a wreck after noon.
Two days ago, I accidentally took 0,25mg and the day after my symptoms were much more tolerable. Maybe 0,25mg could be a good dose?

Despite I’ve had some hard night, I just want to emphasize, I sleep well most of the time, because I take the dose on the evening, so I am ok for the night. 
 

So maybe I could take 0,20mg on the evening and 0,05mg in the morning? 
 

15 minutes ago, Shep said:

Are you still having this adverse effect or was it a one-off? 

 

Are you able to schedule a few days off from work to give yourself some much needed down time? 

The only adverse or paradoxical effect that I have is depression and some a little numbness in my hands and legs, but I am not sure if it is not interdose withdrawal. 
The depression is the hardest for me to cope with.

But I know that a part of this depression comes from the fact that I feel trapped in a hopeless situation. I am so, so mad at me to have take this pills. I cannot forgive myself about it. It is very hard to accept.

 

I am off work for two weeks. I am really not happy about it, but I didn’t have much choices, as it was very difficult for me to stay concentrated.

 

I really want to get off as soon as possible. When can I start my tapper?
 

Another question: Is it better to split the dose in three times during the day, or just two is enough?

 

So my plan would be to take 0,20mg at night and 0,05mg in the morning and see if it is ok.

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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@Shep

I have another questions

What is the goal to find the good dose? 
Is it to be totally symptoms free, or to be able to sleep and make it through the day?

Because with this dose, I am able to make my day and sleep, but it is difficult when I am approaching the next dose. So is it what we want?

 

And if I stay steady on the same regiment of dose, is it possible that I stabilize? Or the symptoms will just ramp up with time and tolerance?

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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@Gridley

So you think it is possible that one day I stabilize on Ativan? 
I try to stick to 0,2mg each evening, and the symptoms are unbearable in the afternoon. How can I find the right dosage? 
We’re you stable on your Ativan dose?

I have an overwhelming feeling that I won’t be able to ever overcome this drug. I have the feeling that my life is over and that I will lose my job... 

Thank you

2008-2019: various ADs at various doses, initially for anxiety related insomnia.

2015: C/T Paxil - GP switch me to Mirtazapine and Pristiq. 2018: Switched Pristiq to Venlafaxine (For tapering)

2019-01: Stopped Venlafaxine after a 10 months taper. Updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

Summer 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine. Sept 2019, down to 30mg, hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg.

Tried escitalopram 10mg, C/T after 4 weeks. Tried Buspar, C/T after 5 days.

Jan 2020: Second mirtazapine weaning attempt, but end of january, big wave of symptoms, back to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: 50mg quetiapineXR, CT after 1 week. 21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Quetiapine 25mg  PRN since may 2019, March 2020 stopped.

Mirtazapine taper, from 45mg:  2020-10-21 43.88mg, 10-28 42.75mg, 11-04 41.63mg, 11-11 40.5mg, 11-24 41.6mg, 12-03 42.20mg, updose 2021–01-15 to 42,7 and holding.

Ativan prn since jan 2021. Became accidentally dep. March 2021.
2021-03-21 Ativan 0,29mg / 2021-03-28 0.28mg/ 2021-04-08 0.27mg/

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, D vit, Probiotic.

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