Mimi79: Will I survive?

[Mimi79]

8 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

If you continue to seek out drugs to give you this much stability and you aren't able to use non-drug coping skills for daytime symptoms, you are playing a dangerous game of "withdrawal symptom Whac-A-Mole", meaning you are trading off helping one symptom by creating other symptoms that will pop up. You may end up with less anxiety during the day, but you may end up with insomnia by playing around with benzos. 

If I understand what you are saying to me, is I have to endure some symptoms during the day, as long as my sleep is good? Do you mean I must let higher dose during the evening and less during the day? Just to be sure. 
 

And yes I am trying some coping skills. But I have to confess that in the last 2 weeks, I am in shock about what is happening to me. I struggle a lot on this drug and even if I try to calm down, I feel very bad. I have no energy, no motivation, I feel depressed and anxious. I try to do breathing techniques, but it is hard. I feel trapped in my mind.

 

Sorry for that. And thank you so much for your tremendous help. I just try to find some stability on this drug, but I have the feeling I am fighting with it...
 

Mimi79

[Shep]

7 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

20:00 To 22:00 Feel better, but still very depressed about my situation. Feel trapped.

 

At this time of night, instead of sitting around feeling depressed and trapped, I would go to YouTube and find a guided sleep meditation that deals with intrusive thoughts and insomnia. Put on a sleep mask to block out light and follow along with the video. 

[Shep]

3 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

If I understand what you are saying to me, is I have to endure some symptoms during the day, as long as my sleep is good? Do you mean I must let higher dose during the evening and less during the day? Just to be sure. 

 

Yes, this is correct. 

[Mimi79]

2 minutes ago, Shep said:

At this time of night, instead of sitting around feeling depressed and trapped, I would go to YouTube and find a guided sleep meditation that deals with intrusive thoughts and insomnia. Put on a sleep mask to block out light and follow along with the video.

I did something similar, as I listened to guided relaxation and trying to have a non panicking speech.

 

I tend actually to panick, because I am so unwell and non fonctionnal.

 

I know I am not the only one in this situation, but I have two young girls, a job, and I can afford losing all I have. When I feel trapped in a endless situation, I think about what would be my future, and I get panicked. I was thinking about that last night. 
 

Thank you so much for all your help. 

[Mimi79]

@Shep

According to your experience, if I stay with the same dose at the same time during a certain period of time, will the symptoms lessen a bit? 
When I don’t see any improvement immediately, I tend to make changes and I know it is not good. With what I am actually taking, do you think I must stay with that and wait?

Thank you!

[Gridley]

21 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

21 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Do you think I should wait a bit before tapering? 

That's a decision you'll have to make.  What I'm understanding from your posts is that you feel the Ativan is doing more harm than good.  If that's the case (and only you can make this determination) it's an argument for starting the taper instead of waiting.

 

It is essential that you taper slowly, no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  There will be some withdrawal symptoms from the taper that you'll have to deal with.  Shep's previous post earlier today contains a lot of wisdom and you would be well advised to read it more than once.

 

You must never cold turkey a benzo like Ativan.  This can result in very serious problems.

 

21 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

And tapering Benzo is it the same as tapering AD? Symptoms arise then lessen?

Yes, symptoms will arise then lessen.  They may arise again.  Recovery is not linear.  It's going to e ups and downs and it's very important not to over-react when things get worse by try to add more drugs.  

 

21 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

 

Our CNS is able to adapt to the decrease?

Yes, if you go slowly enough.

[Mimi79]

@Shep

I’m really concern. Since the last 2-3 days, have been trying to split my Lorazepam doses in two, one in mid-day (0,9mgai) and the bigger part in the evening (0,18mgai), but as days pass, I seem to develop paradoxical reaction. Today, after each doses, I started to feel a little bit more calm, then one hour later, I saw anxiety and nervousness increase a lot. 
last week, when I was taking my unique dose in the evening, it was calming, but now it seems to do the opposite. 
Should I return to a one dose pattern? 
 

I feel really bad, as I feel restless all day long. I have the feeling I won’t sleep well this night, like the one before, because of this nervosity.

 

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

Mimi79

[Mimi79]

@Shep

And the feeling of being overly drugged is more present then ever. 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

According to your experience, if I stay with the same dose at the same time during a certain period of time, will the symptoms lessen a bit? 
When I don’t see any improvement immediately, I tend to make changes and I know it is not good. With what I am actually taking, do you think I must stay with that and wait?

 

Yes to all of the above. You really need to stick with the same dose and time and give your nervous system time to adjust to it. 

 

It takes 4 days for your nervous system to register a change and it can take a week or more to adjust to that change. There are no quick fixes. 

[Mimi79]

@Shep

But what about the paradoxical reaction I mentioned in my previous post? 

[Shep]

Please see:

 

• what's required from you and your ability to self-manage

Please note we can only give you basic tapering guidance. I've given you all of the information I can. It may help to go through and re-read the posts since the beginning of this wave when you started taking Valerian and than Ativan. 

 

Paradoxical reactions are common with benzodiazepines. You'll have to gage whether or not having a few hours of unpleasant symptoms is worse than tapering off the Ativan and dealing with withdrawal. 

 

But handling upticks in symptoms without making more changes is necessary at some points during the withdrawal process for everyone. Unfortunately, we don't know of a fix for any of these symptoms other than to recommend holding, stabilizing as much as possible, and doing a slow taper off. 

[Mimi79]

15 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

But what about the paradoxical reaction I mentioned in my previous post? 

@Shep
When I was dosing once a day, I was relatively ok until the beginning of the afternoon the day after.

Now, I feel bad after taking each dose (paradoxical reaction?) and I feel bad when I am in interdose withdrawal. 
So I feel bad almost the entire day.

 
It is really no fun.

What can I do?

 

Thank you.

[Mimi79]

56 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please note we can only give you basic tapering guidance. I've given you all of the information I can. It may help to go through and re-read the posts since the beginning of this wave when you started taking Valerian and than Ativan. 

Sorry dear Shep.

I am so thankful for your tremendous help.

I really try to stick on a pattern, it is just that paradoxical reaction are a new thing and I don’t know how to manage it. 
I will try to stabilize and hope it will help.

[Altostrata]

Mimi, what is your current drug schedule, with dosages? What times of day do you take your drugs?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[Rabe]

Hi Mimi.  I am sorry you are feeling so trapped...I too do not do well with that at all.  As I read your posts it took me back to before I started tapering my Viibryd.  I didnt know which drug to taper, how to do it, should I cut and weigh or should I get things compounded, etc etc.  Do I taper the CLonazepam or do I taper the Viibryd. It all felt so very overwhelming and I was not doing well physically or mentally and found it hard to trust anyone because of my fear of what might happen if I did what was suggested, but I also did not trust myself.  I had question after question just as you do and they varied and bounced back and forth depending upon how I was feeling at the moment. I was so afraid that my trauma response was just to freeze and do nothing which kept me stuck in my old patterns.

I have had lots of anxiety and depression and panic attacks in my life.  I had lots of fear of a loss of control bringing all that back as it was for so many years.  Fear is such a powerful thing and trying to control it and my life felt so overwhelming if not impossible.  For me it WAS impossible.  It was only when I finally let go of my trying to control my body, my fear and so much more and started to trust the people here, my therapist, the compounding pharmacy, the doctors I see, and myself that I started to get better....and I see the moderators here as doctors of withdrawal.  They are so wise and have so much experience from their own lives and the lives of all whom they have guided along their various journeys. 

I wanted you to know that I can identify with how you are feeling and that I am holding you in my thoughts and prayers, Mimi.  I can say that once I let go, made decisions and started my taper it I felt so much better.  At least I was doing something.  I would love not to feel the anxiety and panic I do sometimes but it passes and the coping skills help.  You have lots going on in your life which for me was all the more reason to get better...to enjoy my children and beautiful grandchildren.  They have been the best medicine ever.  I have to keep busy or my mind will always take me to the worst places.  🙄

The daily notes are a great thing for the moderators and for yourself.  Good luck with them.  If I could move ahead from where you are right now I know that you can as well.  Love and hugs to you Mimi!!!  💜

[Mimi79]

Thank @Rabe for your good words. I feel a little desperate these days. I am afraid I won’t ever stabilize and do my taper. I am afraid of losing control of my life. I feel so bad.

 

@Altostrata and @Shep

I will post my daily notes soon. Thank you.

 

I want to prepare myself for eventually starting a taper. I would like to maybe make a homemade liquid titration. Is there a better way to do it with Ativan? 
Thank you.

[Mimi79]

Hi @Altostrata

This is my journal of the day.

 

Dayly note

 

Monday evening:

11:00.        Go for bed. Fall asleep easily.

 

Tuesday:

9:30          Woke up after a good night.     

                  Little inner nervousness

                 (Interdose W/D).

 

10:00.       Not hungry, but eat a bit. Depressed Feelings. Took omega-3.

 

11:00.        Took 0,08mg Ativan.

 

12:00.        Little uptick of inner nervousness or Inner agitation, but not too bad.A lot of intrusive thoughts.

 

13:00-16:00.       Almost calm, intrusive thoughts, Less depressed.

 

17:00.       Starting to feel some nervousness (Interdose W/D).

 

18:00.       Eat dinner. Omega3. Some 

                  Nervousness (interdose w/d).

 

19:00.       Ativan 0,20mg. Go for a walk.

 

20:30.       Uptick in nervosity, stiff muscles, slight headache. Not too bad.

 

21:00.       More muscle stiffness and inner Nervousness.

 

22:30.      Go to bed. Still have some         muscle stiffness and some inner 

agitation, but at a lower level.

So I really have the feeling that Ativan causes some paradoxical symptoms, but at lower dose, it seems less noticeable. And for the moment, they are manageable. The lower I will get, the less they will bother me, I hope. 

 

Thank you

Mimi79

 

 

 

[Mimi79]

It is so hard, I am not able to stabilize.

Don’t see any end to this suffering.

Usually I am able to stay somewhat positive, but this BIG mistake I’ve made of taking this lorazepam, this awful poison, I will regret it all my life...

I try to stabilize on 0,3mg. I hope it will work, I don’t want to updose more.

[ChessieCat]

Mimi, you have only posted 1 day of notes.  Alto needs to see consecutive days of daily symptom notes for at least 3 days in a row to see if there is any pattern which can sometimes give a clue as to what might be changed to improve things a bit.

[Mimi79]

Don’t look too much on the previous daily note, as I have changes my pattern since then. Let’s start over.

 

Friday

8:30.     Woke up after a good night sleep,      some anxiety and depression .

8:45.     Took 0,15mgai Ativan.

9:00.     Eat a little, but not hungry.

10:00.    Feel some agitation. 
11:00.     More calm.

13:00.    Eat a bit. Omega 3, Vit D

14:00.    Feeling a bit space out. Very discouraged about what is happening to me. Depressed.

15:00.    Watching tv, feel a bit better.

18:00.     Starting to feel some agitation (interdose withdrawal). Eat.

20:00.    0,15mg Ativan

21:00.    Calm, feel a bit better then during the day, less depression.

22:00.   Take my dose of mirtazapine.

00:00.    Go to bed.

 

[Mimi79]

@ChessieCat

Don’t know if you can answer me, but I feel more and more tired/exhausted. Is it link to my destabilize CNS or it is a side effect from Ativan? I am taking 0,3mg actually. 

[Rosetta]

Hi, Mimi,

 

I’m sorry you are feeling so bad right now.  Alto is good at finding patterns in the daily notes.  After a few days or a week of daily notes, she should be able to tell you if you are having a reaction or if you are just in a wave.  Please keep posting the daily notes.  
 

I know that there came a point at which I was able to recognize a wave and accept it was something I would have to endure.  I did not have any options because I wasn’t taking any drugs at all.  For a very long time, I could not accept the waves.  It is still hard for me, but they are much less intense.  I can see that.  You will be able to see it when yours 

become less intense, too, someday.
 

You are in a different position than I was, but you will not be able to distinguish between waves and bad reactions to medication.  Only someone outside of your mind can do that by reading your daily notes.  So, please don’t give up on posting them.  If you are having a bad reaction, you need to know that.  You need someone to see it for you.

 

That fear of losing everything is very hard to tamp down.  Try to distract yourself from it and take baby steps toward the things you need to do every day.  Having children throughout this experience is very difficult.  There is another life to consider, and worry about how your illness will affect that life is an additional stressor.  You may have heard the saying “accept what you cannot change.”  It’s infuriating isn’t it?  I think focusing on the part that says “change what you can change” is important.  

 

You must divert your attention from what could have been and put your thoughts and your energy toward what you might be able to do now to make your life more manageable.  What makes that so difficult is that it is hard to think clearly when in withdrawal.  It is hard to hold a thought and even harder to make a plan.  Anxiety and panic interfere with those processes.  
 

Your last note indicates that you are sleeping.  That is so very important.  Try not to worry about what any of your feelings might mean for the time being until you can report enough notes for Alto to see a pattern.  Feeling exhausted is a part of the anxiety of having waves, too.  As a CT, I felt exhausted.  There were no drug side effects for me, but I felt exhausted.  
 

The most important thing is that you make no changes that might disrupt your sleep unless Alto says she thinks you should, of course.  Sleep is the number one thing to protect.  Sleep will help you heal.  
 

I know that you all ready knew everything that I have written here, but sometimes it helped me to see it in writing and to see that someone else endured what I was enduring.  
 

I’m thinking of you. — Rosetta

 

 

[Mimi79]

@Rosetta

it is very kind. You are always there to encourage me, I appreciate a lot. Thanks.

[Mimi79]

Saturday

8:30.     Woke up after a good night sleep.

              Very anxious, a lot of interdose w/d

              Took 0,15mg Ativan.

9:30.      Not hungry, but force myself to eat

               Still anxious and some agitation.

               Oméga 3 and Dvit.

10:00.     A little less anxious, but feeling overwhelmed and exhausted. Don’t have the motivation of doing nothing.

12:00.     Force myself to go to grocery shop. Very fatigue.

13:00.      No motivation. Watch tv. Very depressed.

15:00.       Force myself to go for a walk.

17:45.       Starting to feel more and more agitation, feel like interdose W/D.

18:00.       Not hungry but eat for dinner.

                 Interdose w/d stronger.

20:00.       Took 0,15mg Ativan.

21:00.       Some nervousness, but after more and more calm.

23:00.       Go to bed. 

 

[Mimi79]

Addendum of the previous note...

Took mirtazapine at 22;00.

And I want to add that all day long I am feeling fatigue, exhaustion and depression.

[Mimi79]

@Shep

I would like to know how can I split my two doses in three? Do I have to move the dose slowly? 

[Mimi79]

7:30.      Woke up after a good night sleep, 

              But woke up with anxiety and          nervousness (interdose W/D).

8:00.     Took Ativan 0,15mg.

9:00.      Nervousness, some mild agitation.

              Not hungry, but eat a little.

              Omega3 and D vit.

10:00.     More calm, but very depressed.

13:00.     Anxious, depressed, no energy.

15:00.     Forced myself to go outside. 
16:00.     Calmer, less depressed. 
                Able to have a conversation.

17:45.     Starting to have some mild interdose W/D (head pressure, mild nervousness).

18:30.      Eat. omega3.

20:00.      Ativan 0,15mg.

21:00.      Little nervousness, but not to bad,

                But more intrusive thoughts.

22:00.      Intrusive thoughts. Overall a bit more calm.

23:00.     Go to bed.

 

Sorry. I’ve just realized I have been writing hours of the day like we do in French (24h), not the way you are used to. 
 

[Mimi79]

Hi @Gridley

I need some advice as I want to split my doses in three instead of two. 
Do I have to slowly move the dose or I can start right away with 3 doses? 
Thank you.

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Mimi79 said:

Hi @Gridley

I need some advice as I want to split my doses in three instead of two. 
Do I have to slowly move the dose or I can start right away with 3 doses? 
Thank you.

Assuming you're going to stay at the same total dosage and are just changing that dose from twice a day to 3 times a day, I see no reason why you couldn't start right away.  I'd make no other changes (remember the rule, one change at a time).

 

Why are you making this change?  

[Mimi79]

I have interdose withdrawal symptoms around 1-2 hours before each dose. 
Do you think splitting in three doses could help?

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Mimi79 said:

have interdose withdrawal symptoms around 1-2 hours before each dose. 
Do you think splitting in three doses could help?

It could.  Remember, it takes 4 days for a dose change event to reach full strength in your bloodstream and another few days to register in the brain, so give the change a chance to work.

[Mimi79]

@Gridley

I am very afraid of a new symptoms I am experiencing since I became accidentaly dependent to Ativan.

It happened last Thursday, then now today.

I am experiencing very, very deep dark depression. It is very frightening, as I am not a depressed person usually.

Do it will go away?

And what do you think is causing that. My destabilize CNS or the medication itself?

 

I hope tomorrow I will wake up and it will be over, because I really struggle to endure it.

 

Thank you.

[Rabe]

 Mimi,

Im sorry you are having a difficult time right now.  

For myself I have found that the more I can distract the better it is for me.  I may still not feel very well but when not so focused on and worrying about my feelings it helps.  Carmie always has said to distract, distract, distract and I started to do that and it has helped.  So I share that for what it is worth, knowing that it is not easy.

Wanted you to know that I am thinking about you so much!  Hoping you can keep posting your daily journals so that you can get the great advice the moderators will share, just as Gridey did.  

I find it hard to wait when feeling anxious...I want it to change now or sooner.  Please know that as those here help you sort things out things WILL get better for you Mimi.

Have you looked at all at the coping skills available on this sight?  You could try some and see which ones are even a bit helpful if you are up to it.  Every little bit helps huh?  Holding you close in my thoughts Mimi!  💜

 

 

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

am very afraid of a new symptoms I am experiencing since I became accidentaly dependent to Ativan.

According to your signature, you've been off the Ativan for over a year.  With more than one drug involved, it's impossible to pinpoint the cause of your depression.  Depression is a common withdrawal symptom and could be attributed to the Ativan withdrawal from a year ago or the Mirtazapine.

 

The important thing to remember is that these symptoms will go away, with time.  Your job in the meantime is to remain as calm as possible and not react strongly to new symptoms that occur.  New Symptoms are typical in withdrawal.  They come and go.  

[Mimi79]

@Gridley

I became accidentally dependent of Ativan 4 weeks ago and I am trying to stabilize and eventually taper it.

I am struggling a lot since then, my life is literally falling apart.

But I realize I have not updated my signature since then.

Could you give me the link to update it. It don’t remember how to do it.

Thank you.

[Gridley]

24 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

 

Could you give me the link to update

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.