Mimi79: Will I survive?

[Mimi79]

2021-03-24

8:00       woke up anxious. Took 0,14mg Ativan.

9:00        Eat but not hungry. Very nervous, started to feel depressed.

10:00.     Very strong dark depression.

12;00.     Enable to eat. Very strong depression.

14:00.     Try to distract, but very very strong depression.

18:00.      Force myself to eat.

20:00.     Took 0,15 Ativan. Strong depression.

22:00.     Go to bed. Mirtazapine 42,75mg.

                Insomnia because of the still present very strong feeling of depression.
 

[Rosetta]

Thinking of you, Mimi.  You will become stable again.  Hang in there. 
 

Rosetta

[Mimi79]

Thursday 25 March 

8:00        woke up after an hard and full of insomnia night. Took 0,14mg Ativan.

9:00        Eat breakfast. Some nervousness, but not too bad. Definitely less depressed than yesterday.

10:00.     No energy, as usual. Took a shower.

12:00.     A little anxious. Able to Make laundry .

13:00.     Go for a small walk in the sun.

14:00 to 17:00     No energy, but not too depressed. Watch tv.

18:00.      Dinner, low appetite.

20:00.      Feeling of exhaustion, took 0,15mg Ativan.

21:00.      Watch tv, some agitation.

22:00.      Calmer. Go to bed.

 

 

[Mimi79]

@Rosetta

Hi dear, thank you so much for your support. I am in a panicked state since the last 4 weeks.

I have made a big, big mistake, and I am not able to forgive me. Everyday I wish I could use a time machine and come back in the past to avoid this mistake!!!

I was aware of the risk of Ativan, but I naively thought that if I use it only 1 or twice a week, it was safe. But it was NOT!!!

I became dependent after 2 pills took in the same week! Only 2!!! 
And now I am stuck to take this awful poison everyday!

I am really struggling to stabilize. I don’t know if it’s the drug, the destabilize CNS or what, but I have never ever feel so awful in all my life!!! I am exhausted everyday, very depressed, I have no drive, no energy, find no pleasure in nothing, don’t want to go out of my house, etc. It is not me!

I panick because I would like to stop it as soon as possible, but I can’t! I know I have to taper it slowly, as my CNS is so sensitive. 
But this drug is destroying me each day more and more... 

I have this dreadful feeling that with this mistake, I am almost dead, with no chance of recovery.

And it will delay a lot my mirtazapine taper. I prefer to not think about it...

Why did I make this mistake??? Why?!

If one day I am able to stop this awful drug, I swear that I will never, ever take any Benzo or z-drug of all my life!!!! 

 

 

[Rosetta]

Mimi,

 

I made the same mistake.  I thought I was spacing them out far enough, but based on the severity and length of PWS, I was probably dependent.  Of course, the doctor didn’t bother to tell me anything about the drug or the half life.  Not one single word about the danger of getting hooked.  All she said was that it was safer than Valium.  Even two years ago, I thought all my problems were from the AD switch, repeated increases in dosage, poop-out, and CT.  So, please don’t CT.  You don’t want to be sick as long as I have been.
 

At least you know you are hooked and can taper.  I didn’t even know tapering was a thing.   I certainly didn’t know I was hooked.  I was taking small doses and suffering for days until the next one.  Then I would be a complete zombie because even a tiny dose was too much for my system.  I CT’d, and I didn’t find SA until months later.

 

Some people actually decide to use a benzo to help them overcome AD WD. SA strongly discourages this, of course.  Doctors prescribe them all the time both to take away the anxiety that comes with AD use AND to help with AD WD.  The idea of reducing the AD very slowly never occurs to them.
 

Although it’s not advisable to use a benzo for AD WD, now that you are stuck, you have to use this situation to your advantage.  If you can dose the benzo properly, you can stabilize.  You won’t have to worry about insomnia.  You could benefit from this if you handle it properly.

 

Yes, you are going to have taper it.  Yes, you will delay your mirtazapine taper.  That can’t be helped now.  Look at this as kind of a fateful mistake.  Maybe you can stabilize while having proper sleep and a break from the misery after your daily dose.  It’s not ideal, but what’s done is done.  

 

If you can make this work, you might feel less misery sooner than otherwise.  No guarantees.  It’s not something anyone else should do on purpose!!! It’s way too risky, but here you are.  Try to see the Potential advantage of Ativan now that you are stuck.

 

Thinking of you,
Rosetta

[Mimi79]

Thank you @Rosetta

Very kind to you.

But I have to admit I don’t see any positive potential to Ativan. Since the last 4 weeks, now that I have to take it everyday, my baseline has declined a lot. I am a real mess.

I am not able to stabilize, I feel trapped. I don’t know what to do. Should I split my dose 3 times a day, should I start right away my taper to alleviate some symptoms? Or should I hold to stabilize?

 

I am so, so scared and don’t know what to do.

 

This is awful. I missed my old mirtazapine wave, it was not good, but at least I was fonctionnal.

 

Thank you

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata

Thank you so much for your help.

I have posted some journal. Can you look at it? I need some guidance as I don’t know what to do, if I should decrease my dose to alleviate some paradoxical reaction, or should I stabilize further? 
It has been 5 weeks now that I became dependent to Ativan, 4 weeks that I take it everyday. My overall baseline is worse and worse everyday that passes. I don’t seem to stabilize. 
I really don’t know what to do. 
Thank you so, so much for your help!

 

Mimi

[Rosetta]

Mimi,

 

I understand what you are feeling.  I’ve been there.  Well, after 4 weeks you haven’t seen stabilization, yet, but you will.  The solution is definitely NOT to quit Ativan.  Eventually, your system will calm down.

 

I can’t advise you on whether to reduce.  I can’t detect paradoxical reactions.  I’m not that person.  
 

Your Thursday wasn’t fun, I know, but you did more than I was able to do when I was at my worst.  So, you are not as dysfunctional as I became, and that is a very good thing.  If you can stay diligent with your dosing, it will all even out.  I would keep posting the logs, and stay at the same dose if I were you.  If a moderator says differently, that’s when you would change something.

 

You have to stop making changes.  That is what will get you deeper and deeper into dysautonomia.

[Mimi79]

Friday:

8:00       Woke up after a quite good night. Little nervous. Took 0,14mg Ativan.

9:30       Feeling some inner nervousness, eat breakfast, Omega 3+D vit.

10:00.     Feeling exhausted, but not too nervous.

13:00.     Starting to wash my refrigerator.

               No energy to do it, but push       myself. Feeling very depressed about what is happening to me. Hopeless.

15:00.     More and more depressed.

16:00.     Watching tv, depressed.

18:30.     Eat dinner. No hungry. Depressed.

20:00.     Ativan 0,15mg.

21:00.     Watch tv. Very depressed. Discouraged.

22:00.     Exhausted, go to bed. Took Mirtazapine 42,75mg.

 

As days pass, I am feeling more and more hopeless, more and more depressed and exhausted, even if I don’t change my dose.

 

[Mimi79]

@Gridley

I just want to confirm with you, so I can split my 2 doses of Ativan in three doses without moving the dose bit by bit? I can do it in one day?

Thank you.

[Mimi79]

Hi @Rosetta

Thank you again for your encouragement.

I feel so lost and alone in this situation.

 

I really have a lot of difficulties to accept what is happening to me. 

In fact, I am very, very afraid of one thing, is to have paradoxical reaction to Ativan.

I have a past history of developing bad depression with S.I. with the use of this kind of meds. It happened twice in my life, once with Klonopin and once with Zopiclone. It was awful, but at this time, I was able to stop them without issues. And the depression and SI disappeared as soon as I stopped them.

So each day when I feel more depressed (and it happened few times in the last week), I am so afraid that it is happening once again. It would be awful!!! 
 

I really feel my body don’t want this drug. It is so difficult to accept that I must hold. 

[Gridley]

17 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

I can do it in one day?

Thank you.

I would do it in one day.  Otherwise, you're going to have some hours that aren't "covered" by the Ativan, leading to interdose withdrawal.  I went from taking a single nighttime dose to three split doses in one day.

 

Just to be sure I'm being clear, you're going to split your current .29mg Ativan into three equal doses of just a fraction less than 0.1mg per dose.  

[Mimi79]

@Gridley

Because I am using a scale and the pills are so small, I don’t have the choice to have different weight. I can weight under 0.01mg.

I would like to use this pattern:

6:00am.   0.1mg

2:00pm.   0.09mg

10:00pm.  0.1mg

 

Do you think it is feasible?

 

Thank you!

[Mimi79]

Oups, I mean I cannot weight under 0,01mg.  Sorry.

[Gridley]

8 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

Do you think it is feasible?

That pattern would be fine.

[Erell]

Dear Mimi

 

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time.

 

I understand it well as I introduced Diazepam in September 2020.

 

Do I regret ? Yes a bit because I have added a drug and I'm not sure it did help.

But not that much : I did it because I tried to do my best to protect myself and those around me.

At that time, I did what I thought was best. 

Can I beat myself because I did my best? Definitely not. I prefer to learn to love as best as I can myself and accept my history.

 

 

Because no matter what are my thoughts about it, at the end of the day the facts are the same and I can only deal with facts. That's all.

Fact is that we have taken a benzo and are now probably dependant of it.

Is it helping to regret about our decisions all day? Definitely not.

 

If it is difficult to try to pintpoint positive as Rosetta suggested, perhaps it will be easier to try to be neutral, just neutral. You are dealing with facts, that's all. 

Can we go back to change the past ? No. So how do we deal with facts in the now ? That's what we need to focus on.

 

I don't know if I'm clear in English, hope so.

 

I see in your notes that you manage to sleep a bit, to watch TV or to do cleaning. 

This is huge : even if it might be difficult, it means that you have options to distract, and distraction is huge.

 

You might also be interested by tools about "brain retraining" : for example, paying attention to the words we use.

For example, instead of using the word "awful " you might try to use the word "uncomfortable ".

It might sounds silly, but I do believe it is very important.

 

Sending huge hugs 🤗

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Mimi79

 

On 3/27/2021 at 6:43 AM, Mimi79 said:

 

 ....My overall baseline is worse and worse everyday that passes. I don’t seem to stabilize....

 

What do you mean by your baseline? What are your current symptoms? What is your sleep pattern?

 

Please post at least 24 hours of notes at a time. Thank you.

[Mimi79]

Monday

 

8:00.      Woke up after a good night sleep.

               Took 0.14mg Ativan.

                Some inner nervosity (Interdose?)

9:00.       On my phone in my bed. 
                Some nervousness, feel a little

                Hopeless.

10:00.      Est breakfast, but not appetite.

                Feeling of despair. Unable to 

                Relax and eat slowly.

11:00.      Take a shower. Feeling hopeless and despair about my situation.

12:00.      Watch tv and did some laundry.

1:00      Go for a walk. Feeling of despair.

2:00      Cut my pills. Very angry at myself     
                because of the situation I am in.

3:00.      Read succès story on SA.

4:00      Watch tv. A little less depressed and discouraged.

5:00.       Preparing dinner. Some nervousness, some anxiety (starting to feel interdose?).

6:00.       Eat dinner. Try to relax and talk with my kids, but it is difficult.

7:00.       Watching tv. Not too depressed or nervous. Feeling a bit calm. Trying to not overthink about my situation.

8:00.       Took 0,14mg Ativan.

10:00.      Go to bed. Read a book. Feeling calm. 
11:00.      Close the light. Took some time to fall asleep, but fall asleep around 11:45.

7:30.        Woke up after a good sleep.

[Mimi79]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

What do you mean by your baseline? What are your current symptoms? What is your sleep pattern?

Hi @Altostrata

Thank you so much for your help.

 

What I mean when I say that my baseline is worse and worse, it is because if I compare 3 weeks ago, when I just started to take Ativan everyday, I was far in a better state than now. I was anxious about my situation, but I was not depressed. Now I have days of very strong black depression about everyday 3 days. It is new since the last 2 weeks. And I have more and more of those « depression » day.

My current symptoms are on my « not too bad days » some anxiety, cog fog, tiredness and a total apathy or motivation to do things. 
On my bad days, I feel so, so depressed, at a point of I am not able to take care of my kids, I am not able to talk or interact with another human. Like If I am trapped in my head. Those days are awful, and I have more and more of those days.

I am very afraid that this depression is caused by the Ativan itself, because I have had in the past this kind of reaction with Zopiclone and Klonopin. 
 

Thank you so much 

 

Mimi79

[Mimi79]

I forgot to talk about my sleep.

Usually, my sleep is quite good.

[Altostrata]

Are you taking 0.14mg Ativan at 8 a.m. and 8 p.m.? How long have you been taking it at those times?

 

Do the depressed feelings happen at any particular times of day?

[Mimi79]

On 3/31/2021 at 7:39 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Are you taking 0.14mg Ativan at 8 a.m. and 8 p.m.? How long have you been taking it at those times?

 

Do the depressed feelings happen at any particular times of day?

 

Hi @Altostrata

Thank you for your help. I feel really hopeless.

Yes, I take Ativan 0,14mg at 8am and 8pm, for a total of 0,28mg/day.

I take this exact dose since last Sunday, March 28th. So, it has been now 5 days.

The week before, I was at 0,29mg. 
I dropped down a bit, because I really have the feeling this depression is caused by the drug itself.

 

The pattern now, is that I feel depressed every 2-3 day. Those depressed days, I wake up feeling weird, not really depressed, but not fine. And the depression increase until bedtime. Sometimes, it lessens a bit just before bedtime. I go to bed and usually, when I wake up the next morning, the depression has lift, and I can have a good day.

 

I am living the worst time of my life actually.

I just don’t know what to do.

I have the feeling Ativan is causing this depression, but it could be caused by my destabilized CNS too. It is very hard to cope.

Thank you so much for your help.

 

Mimi79

[Mimi79]

Thursday April 1

 

8:00.       Woke up after a good night sleep.

              Took 0,14mg Ativan.

9:30.      Eat breakfast. Feeling fine this morning. I have more energy to do thing.

10:00.    Have a decaf coffee, read 

               newspaper.

11:00.      Still feeling good, clear mind.

                Paid my bills.

12:30.     Have enough energy to go for a 

               big walk to the shopping center.

               Haven’t done that in weeks.

13:00.     Shopping all afternoon.

16:00.     Came back from shopping, 

                Still feeling quite good, but some

               OCD. Starting to feel some anxiety.

18:00.     Eat dinner. Some anxiety, mood 

               Still ok but less good than in

                Morning.

19:00.      Appointment with my therapist.

                Feeling a bit depressed,

                 But bit too bad.

21:00.       Watch tv, but feeling less good 

                 Than in the morning.

22;00.       Go to bed. Some difficulties to fall asleep.

 

This day was a good day. 

[Mimi79]

I would like to know if this depression is caused by the drug itself or my destabilized CNS. I do would like to know! 

[Mimi79]

** Just be careful, I am posting my daily note for last Wednesday, so not in order. Sorry**
 

Wednesday March 31

8:00.      Woke up after a good night sleep. 
               Took 0,14mg Ativan. 
               Feeling quite anxious and a little

              bit low.

9:00.      Not hungry, but force myself to eat

10:00.    Feeling anxious and a little 

              depressed. Take an Epsom Bath 

               to calm down, but it doesn’t    
               Work.

12:00.   Feeling more and more depressed.

1:00 pm.    Totally depressed and searching 

             For answers on internet.

2:00.     Still very depressed and agitated.

              Unable to distract or think about 

              something else.

And it continued like this all afternoon.

5:00pm.  Try to prepare dinner. Very hard.

7:00.     Go for a walk, totally depressed and hopeless.

8:00.     Took 0,14mg Lorazepam.

9:00pm.   After a very long walk, came back home and soon after, starting to feel less depressed.

10:00.     Go to bed, depressed feelings have totally lifted. Feeling peaceful and calm.

11:00.     Fall asleep without issues.

 

[Mimi79]

Friday April 2:

 

8:00.      Woke up after a good night sleep. 
               Took 0,14mg Ativan. 
               Feeling quite anxious and a little

              bit low.

9:00.      Not hungry, but force myself to eat

10:00.    Feeling anxious and a little 

              depressed. 
11:00.     More and more depressed, no

               motivation.

12:00.    Go for a walk.

1:00 pm.    Totally depressed and searching 

             For answers on internet.

2:00.     Still very depressed and agitated.

              Unable to distract or think about 

              something else.

3:00.      Go to a Covid Clinic because my 

               daughter has to be tested.

               Feeling really bad.

5:00pm.  Try to prepare dinner. Very hard.

8:00.     Took 0,14mg Lorazepam.

 9:00   After a very long walk, came back home and soon after, starting to feel less depressed.

10:00.     Took mirtazapine 42,75mg.Go to bed, depressed feelings have lifted. 

11:00.     Fall asleep without issues.

8:00.      Woke up after a good night.

 

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata

I seem to have a pattern since the last 2 weeks. I have one « not too bad day » when  I can function a bit, have more energy and motivation to do things. Less depressed.

Then the next day I feel awful, more anxious but the worst is the bad depression. It lessen in the evening, and the next day I feel better. And it goes again. 
 

Do you think it is the Ativan itself or something else? I am still taking the same dose everyday at the same time. 

[Mimi79]

Saturday 

8:00.   Woke up after a good night sleep.

            0,14mg Ativan.

9:00.    A little anxious, but not too bad.

             Eat breakfast and took omega 3.

10:00.   Take a shower. Some anxiety, but

             Manageable. 
11:00.   Go to the grocery store and Costco.

             Some ocd. 
14:00.   Back from shopping . Tired, but 

             Very low anxiety. Feeling calm.

16:00.   Watching tv. Calm. Feeling not 

             Too bad.

18:00.   Diner. Good appetite. Feeling some
             Interdose withdrawal (agitation).

20:00.  Took 0,14mg Ativan.

21:00   Watching tv (movie) with kids.
             Feeling quite good.

22:00    42,75mg Mirtazapine.

23:00.  Go to bed. Feeling almost calm.

8:00      Woke up after a good night sleep.

[Altostrata]

Mimi, it appears to me that you are stabilizing. But you seem to be very worried. When you are depressed, what do you think about?

[Mimi79]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Mimi, it appears to me that you are stabilizing. But you seem to be very worried. When you are depressed, what do you think about?

Thank you @Altostrata
I don’t have the feeling I am stabilizing. Two weeks ago, I was having maybe 2-3 bad depression days per week. Now it is every other day. And now it has been 2 days in a row of feeling depressed. I have the feeling it is worst and worst.

I have a past history of developing bad suicidal depression on Benzo. I am afraid that this is what is happening now. 
 

what do you think?

[Altostrata]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Mimi, it appears to me that you are stabilizing. But you seem to be very worried. When you are depressed, what do you think about?

 

You seem to be sleeping better, which is stabilizing. 

 

I am trying to find out if you are having depression as a reaction to the benzo or are you depressed about something else.

[Mimi79]

On 4/5/2021 at 2:34 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Mimi, it appears to me that you are stabilizing. But you seem to be very worried. When you are depressed, what do you think about?

 

@Altostrata when I am depressed, it is a kind of chemical depression, where I am feeling totally overwhelmed by this awful feeling. I don’t think about something in particular. But I feel totally detached from the world. I have no pleasure to be around my family. Of course, the more I am in this state, the more hopeless I become. 
 

I sleep mostly well, but I don’t see this as a sign of stabilization, because sleep hasn’t been an issue for me. sleep is not a problem for me. I started Ativan prn because I was having anxiety during the day because of my Mirtazapine WD. I didn’t took it for insomnia.
 

I am very desperate. I would like to feel better, and don’t understand why this feeling is worst and more and more present.

It is an awful pattern. One day I am almost « ok » (no depression) and the other I am totally depressed. So now, even during the day I feel less depressed, I am thinking about the next day and I panick.

 

I am really questioning if it is a WD symptom or if it is an effect from the Ativan. 
Because I have an history of having this kind of symptom with Benzo.

 

Thank you so so much for your help!

[JoJo90]

24 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

@Altostrata when I am depressed, it is a kind of chemical depression, where I am feeling totally overwhelmed by this awful feeling. I don’t think about something in particular. But I feel totally detached from the world. I have no pleasure to be around my family. Of course, the more I am in this state, the more hopeless I become. 
 

I am very desperate. I would like to feel better, and don’t understand why this feeling is worst and more and more present.

It is an awful pattern. One day I am almost « ok » (no depression) and the other I am totally depressed. So now, even during the day I feel less depressed, I am thinking about the next day and I panick.

 

I am really questioning if it is a WD symptom or if it is an effect from the Ativan. 
Because I have an history of having this kind of symptom with Benzo.

 

Thank you so so much for your help!

Hi Mimi 

 

I may be able to help answer this question. When I was on Mirtazapine I was seriously depressed, more so then when I went on the drug, it seemed to amplify everything. I thought I was going insane and I used to call it a depression attack (similar to anxiety, but a depressive one) I now know that it was the actual drug causing it all along, I then made the mistake of a fast taper.. it lingered for a while but shortly after I had lessened depression along with the expected acute withdrawal. (It was awful but I could tell the difference thankfully) Mine was definitely caused by the drug, so I would say it is more than likely an effect from the Ativan.

[Mimi79]

Sunday 

8:00 woke up after a good night sleep.

         Took 0,14mg Ativan.

9:00. Feeling « blah », some anxiety, some 

          depression, but not too bad.

11:00  Take a shower and prepare to go 

         See family for Easter. I don’t have 

          Motivation to do so.

13:00. Being with family at our family house 

          in nature. Able to walk with siblings      
          Moderate depression and anxiety.

15:00. Starting to feel the depression increase a lot. 
18:00.  Depression wave hit strong. Don’t want to be around people.

20:00. Chemical depression still bad, even 

            After a walk. Took 0,14mg Ativan.

22:00.  Depression lessening a bit, but still present.

23:00.  Try to sleep with this depression feelings, some difficulties to fall asleep.

12:00.   Fall asleep.

7:00.     Woke up feeling bad, still depressed. 

[Altostrata]

You might start tapering Ativan. @Frogie will help you.

[Frogie]

@Mimi79

 

I would be happy to help you taper off the ativan.

Just let me know when you would like to start doing this.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx