Mimi79: Will I survive?

[Mimi79]

@Hanna72 You are so kind! Always there to give us hope with your good words.😌

On my everyday life, I feel so alone with my struggle. I would like to cry out all the sadness and the fear I have inside, But I can’t talk about it with someone. There is just here that I have some support. I feel like a lost little girl alone in the dark. 
Maybe all the way through recovery, I will be able to gain confidence in myself. 
Thank you so much.

[Hanna72]

3 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Maybe all the way through recovery, I will be able to gain confidence in myself. 

Yes you will, it just  takes us time.

If you need to cry, you should let yourself do so.

I got this from @Artistic1 and it gave me a new perspective on crying and it makes a lot of sense;

 

Just my opinion about crying.....I believe it's oneof the best therapies for everything. It releases pent up tension and emotion. And yet, we feelbadly about having to cry, as if there's something wrong with crying on top ofeverything else we may think is wrong with us. We don't want to burden our friends and family with the crying. But our bodies know better than our minds do about what it needs. I shifted my thinking to see it as good therapy.

 

 

[Mimi79]

@brassmonkey I have a question for you. I’m desperate to stabilize, because after few good weeks in March and April, I’m now in a big wave with very bad OCD. I was planning to start my taper in June. Can I start my taper even if I still have bad ocd? Can I, at least, taste the water with a first cut of 2,5% and hold few weeks to see how it goes? I need some hope and I’m desperate to start my taper, because maybe my ocd and intrusives thoughts are caused by Mirtazapine?

[brassmonkey]

Being a wave it will pass in time.  Even though we want to go faster it is always best to taper from a place of stability. I wouldn't rush things.

[Mimi79]

I just need to be peaceful. Today my OCD is worst then ever. I SO wish that it will lessen one day, because it is driving me crazy!! I haven’t feel that bad since my worst days in January. It is so hard to endure such torture...

Do you have tips that could help me? 

[Hanna72]

3 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

 

I just need to be peaceful

 

I know....me too. I get it, I feel the same. When you are dealing with ocd, is it like you check out the same thing over and over again?

[Mimi79]

Yes. My kind of OCD is pretty weird. It’s sensorimotor OCD. I am forced to give importance to some bodily sensations. For exemple, some people cannot stop paying attention to their breath. For me it is the feeling of my clothes on my body. It is so awkward! I didn’t know before it happens to me ,3 months ago,  that it could exist! But it’s a nasty one, because it’s always there, we are always wearing clothes!

Since this wave started last week, this has been more and more intense. I would like to be sure that it will end soon, and that it will disappear when I will be drug free. 

[Hanna72]

The reason why I asked you is because I am like that with fire. I need to check my stove many times and actually feel that it is not on before I go to bed. It was really bad on the drugs, but a little bit better after. I had a ritual before bed, had to check everything many times. 
What I do now is I say out loud, stove check, windows check and so on. Sounds crazy I know but it is like it sticks more in my mind. I don’t go second, third time and so on😅

 

[Mimi79]

Did you have this before drugs? Because in my case, I wasn't an OCD person at all. It's totally new to me. I'm so, so scared to stay like this forever. And don't understand why it is causing me panick these days. I don't understand myself anymore...😔

[Hanna72]

No I never had them before the drugs. But dear mimi it has lessened after my tapering, Please don’t panic, it is just the mind messing with you. You will be ok, you won’t be like this forever. You are strong, even though you don’t feel so at the moment. 
Have faith in what you are doing, this will come to an end. 
Hugs to you 🙏

[Mimi79]

I’m realizing that I didn’t know what was a wave before now. The wave I‘m actually in is far worst than what I imagined. It is very hard and I wasn’t prepared for that. But in the other hand, I don’t have much choice but to ride it, no question that I try another meds. I need to find better tools to help me get through that and cope those wave.

[Rosetta]

Mimi, being uncomfortable wearing clothes was a part of WD for me, and it is gone.  There is a brain- body connection that is disrupted by this syndrome.  There are many sensations that our brains tune out if we are normal.  I had to wear very soft, loose fitting clothes for a long period of time.  There were a lot of other sounds, sensations, smells, tastes and even sights that were very different than normal.  We do not realize how much of the world our brains filter out and ignore unless this happens to us.  It will go back to normal, but again, it is not necessarily caused by the drug such that removing the drug will fix it.  It is a part of the destabilization of your nervous system.  
 

Any further destabilization by tapering too soon could make the symptoms change or worsen.  We think of side effects from medication as a one way street: remove the drug and the side effects stop.  However, this is a different ballgame.  In a healthy, normal situation the removal of the drug would help.  With dysautonomia, PAWS, withdrawal — whatever you call it — we have to avoid further destabilization.  

 

I’m really sorry this has happened to you, and I understand exactly how your anxiety and OCD are interacting because I had that problem, too.  It will go someday.  I know that.  Take care.

[Mimi79]

@Rosetta Thank you so much! I’m so happy to read that I’m not alone with this symptom, because I haven’t heard it before. 
It makes me smile because I’m only wearing leggings since the last 2 months! I cannot endure jeans anymore...

I have the feeling that there is two w/d symptoms merging together: this hyperawareness of my own body and the obsessive and looping way of thinking. It causes a weird kind of hyper awareness OCD. 

There something I don’t understand, it’s why some week I’m able to endure it without problems and other weeks (like now) that it leaves me freaked and panicked. Maybe it is the difference between windows and waves.

[Mimi79]

Thank you all so much. I feel so alone in my «real life » with this struggle. If SA and all of us haven’t been there for me in the last 3 months, I just don’t really know where I would be. Probably in psychiatric yard with a lot of new drugs in my body. Yes, the next step with my GP was to send me to a psychiatrist. She was done with me. 
You are helping me so much and prevent me to stay in a fetal position, crying in my bed all day long! Thank you so much for that. It is in a bad wave that we realize how lucky we are to have this forum. 

[Mimi79]

Is it normal that It is so difficult and long for me to stabilize, even if I haven’t C/T? I know I’ve made a lot of little changes of my mirt dose, but no big changes. I don’t understand why it’s so hard for me to stabilize and be symptoms free.

[Altostrata]

Mimi, you've made a lot of drug changes in the last 6 months:
 

Quote

 

Dec 2019-Jan 2020: Tapered Mirtazapine (45mg down to 37.5mg), but end of january, hit a wall of symptoms, so updose again to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: GP added 50mg SeroquelXR and upped Mirtazapine to 52.5mg. Stopped SeroquelXR after 2 weeks.

21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

 

 

Quote

Early march '20, stopped both seroquel and ativan.

 

Plus, you drink alcohol, which can set back stabilization every time you have a glass of wine.

 

How did you go off Seroquel and Ativan? What was your tapering schedule for each drug?

 

You will need to be patient. It can take months for your nervous system to settle down, especially if you rock it with alcohol now and then.

 

On 4/29/2020 at 7:49 PM, Altostrata said:

 

If you feel you need to stabilize more, stabilize more.

 

What is your current daily symptom pattern?

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata Thank you!

Tomorrow I will give you my pattern, I promise.

 

It’s been two weeks now I don’t drink alcohol anymore. Before that, since March, I was taking one small glass of wine per week max.

I haven’t tapered Seroquel and Ativan, I just stopped them in March,  because I was using them PRN, rarely more then 1 or 2 times a week. I received advises about it here.

 

I have take one or two seroquel last month because of insomnia, but I stopped it right away, it was causing me new and weird symptoms the day after (feeling of burning in my head?). I know it was a mistake. 
 

If you say me that it’s normal to be destabilized after such changes, it reassures me.

 

I have a lot of stress at my job because of the Covid19 (I work in hospital) so maybe this new stress is enough to destabilize me, who knows!

 

Thank you!

 

[Altostrata]

Okay, please take care of yourself. Remember your nervous system is sensitive, treat it like a baby and be patient.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

[Mimi79]

@altostratta I’m already using Magnesium glycinate and Fish oil everyday. 
Yesterday, I’ve stopped using D and B vit. to see if it causes me problems. If it doesn’t help, I will reintroduce them one by one. 

Thanks!

[Mimi79]

Maybe you can answer my question. Is it normal this awful wave I’m in makes me loose my self confidence in my recovery? Usually, when all of you are reassuring me that I won’t be like that forever, I really believe in what you tell me and it gives me hope and confidence. And I really feel inside of me this good feeling of confidence. 
 

But now, even if I read all your encouragements, even if I read successful stories, and even if you say to me that my OCD won’t be there forever, I’m not able to believe in those words. It’s like the bad negative voice in me is talking louder than everything and I’m not able to feel this good feeling of confidence and assurance inside of me.

 

Is it normal? Does it comes with bad waves, like it’s a big lie I cannot ignore?

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

[wantrelief]

Hi Mimi: I wanted to reach out to you to let you know that you are not alone in feeling this way.  I find it difficult to believe that I will feel better too.  I don't really get windows so that is part of it for me.  Regardless, I try very hard to believe in recovery, kind of like a blind faith but it is hard to really feel it. Someday my hope is that we will be telling others of our experience and that they too will get better.  🙂

 

 

[Mimi79]

Hi @wantrelief Thank you for your good words.
I see in your thread that you’ve started your taper with symptoms going on?

I’m afraid to be in this case. After 3 months stabilizing, I’ve had a good window at the beginning, but now it’s like constant wave, but last week have been worst. I know I need to stabilize, but don’t want to wait too long.
Do you have a lot of symptoms when you taper?

Thank you again!

 

 

[wantrelief]

Hi Mimi - 

 

1 hour ago, Mimi79 said:

I see in your thread that you’ve started your taper with symptoms going on?

I’m afraid to be in this case. After 3 months stabilizing, I’ve had a good window at the beginning, but now it’s like constant wave, but last week have been worst.

Oh I am really sorry you have had such a bad week. If you had a good window, that is a good sign.  Don't worry about not stabilizing because of my situation. I think I am in some sort of tolerance situation as my symptoms started when I was on the same dose of medication for almost a year.  

 

1 hour ago, Mimi79 said:

Do you have a lot of symptoms when you taper?

Sometimes my baseline symptoms do worsen but I don't know if it is from tapering, hormones (I am perimenopausal on top of everything) or not coping as well at times - or perhaps a combination of all three! I do get a lot of headaches with tapering and that is hard.

 

Hang in there Mimi!  We will get through this.

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata There’s my daily symptoms pattern of yesterday.

 

6h45:

Woke up with small anxiety (4/10). Have had a good night sleep (almost 8 hours).

7h15:

Take magnesium glycinate and probiotic.

Drink fruits smoothie and take fish oil omega3.

Gradually,

Increased OCD and it causes increased anxiety (5/10).

8h00:

I get to work.

Drink decaffeinated coffee. OCD present, low feeling of despair and low anxiety(6/10).

10h00:

Eat a fruit. OCD very intense, don’t have 1 minute break. It causes a lot of anxiety and still hopelessness feelings, very discouraged that I cannot have a break from my hyperawareness OCD. Start feeling panicked about that. Having fearful thoughts that I will be stuck like this forever. Anxiety= 8/10.

12h00:

Eat lunch. A lot of anxiety and OCD.

Go for a 30 minutes walk with colleagues. After the walk, feel a little bit calmer and OCD a little less bothersome.

14h30:

Take fish oil. Anxiety and OCD fluctuate a lot during afternoon. Sometimes bad, sometimes less present, but generally less  then in the morning. Anxiety 7/10.

16h30:

Back home, less anxious(6/10). Still have OCD.

19h00:

Eat and take probiotic. OCD lessened a bit but still there. Anxiety 5/10.

21h00:

Reading in a hot bath. A little bit calmer. Less OCD. Less anxiety (4/10).

22h00:

Take Mirtazapine and magnesium.

Reading in my bed. Still low OCD and low Anxiety 4/10.

23h45:

Close the light. Fall asleep fast, around 12h00. Wake up at 8h00 next morning with low to moderate anxiety. Good night sleep, but with vivid dreams.

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Altostrata
changed font

[Altostrata]

6 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Increased OCD and it causes increased anxiety (5/10).

 

What do you mean by OCD? What do you mean by "increased anxiety"?

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata  OCD: I have obsessive thoughts about being hyper awareness of some body sensations, like I cannot avoid thinking about the feelings of my clothes on my skin. It’s like I  « must » always check this sensation and focus on it. It’s hard to explain. It’s a symptom I have since my last taper attempt. And it drives me crazy. Sometime it is less present, sometime more.

Increased anxiety: When my anxiety is more and more present. 
Sorry if I’m not clear, English is not my first language.  

Thank you!

 

 

[Altostrata]

What about the "anxiety"?

 

Did you have a tendency to this hyperawareness before you took antidepressants?

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata No, I didn’t have this tendency at all! I wasn’t even close to have any OCD tendencies before ADs. 

And during all my 12 years of AD use, I’ve never had that tendency too.
All of this (Ocd) started few months ago, when I tried to taper (too fast) mirtazapine. It was the first time in all my life that I experienced that. And I’m 40.
My anxiety actually is hard to explain. I feel a constant fear in my gut, sometime high, sometime low.

At 28, I started ADs because of insomnia. That’s all. I wasn’t an anxious person. Maybe a little bit, but not in a pathological way. My insomnia was due to stressful events in my life. After that, I started to be more and more anxious while I was on ADs. ADs were making me anxious. After came my GAD diagnosis.

 

Thank you.

[Altostrata]

Are you getting an irritating sensation from your clothes on your skin? Do you have any rashes?

[Mimi79]

No rashes. It is more like if I feel the pressure of my clothes on my skin. There is no irritation. It’s like I must always be aware of this discomfort. 

Today is a better day. A lot less ocd. Most of the time, I was able to not focus too much on it. 
Thank god!

[Mimi79]

Hi everyone,

I don’t know what happened this weekend, but the OCD is almost gone. I still have a « fear » of having this OCD back, but most of the time I don’t think about it too much. I still have some anxiety, but very manageable, compare to last week! And my mood is better. 
I’m so happy about that. I don’t know if it will stay like this for a while, but I try to enjoy the moment while it lasts.

It reminds me that all those crazy symptoms are not there forever and that they will go away. 

[Altostrata]

Because of withdrawal, you may in fact have been hypersensitive to the sensation of your clothes on your skin. Calling it "OCD" made it seem like you had a irrational fixation. Generally, it's best to describe your symptoms without using psychiatric terms.

 

This may have been a phase in your nervous system stabilizing from the drug changes over the last year. Stabilization can be halting and frustrating, this symptoms may come back in less frequent or intense waves.

 

As you look back at your symptom pattern since you went off Seroquel and Ativan in March, how has it changed? You're still taking 45mg mirtazapine? How's your sleep?

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata My sleep is good, most of the time. Sometime, around my period, I can have one or two bad nights, but that’s all.

I have sometimes very vivid dreams at the end of the night. 
I’m still stabilizing on my 45mg mirtazapine.

I’ve stopped seroquel and Ativan early in March and since then, I haven’t seen no particular pattern, except that I often have a wave right before or during my period. The last week wave was the case. 
Thank you.

[Altostrata]

Seems you're doing pretty well.

 

I used to take ibuprofen before my menstrual period, it seemed to reduce symptoms.

[Mimi79]

@Altostrata Thank you very much for this tips! I will try it next month!

About my pseudo « OCD », I still think there is an obsessive side to this hyper awareness of my body sensations. I’m not only more sensitive, but when it happens I’m really obsessed by those sensations, like if I « have to » or I « need » to focus on it. And it causes great distress and anxiety. 
But you are right that I must avoid calling it OCD, because it’s like I am giving myself a psychiatric « disease » that I don’t really  have. 
Thank you!

[Altostrata]

Let's hope that should you suffer a wave, it will not be as distressing to you.