Mimi79: Will I survive?

[Mimi79]

I’m just stopping by for an update. I’m doing pretty good since the last 2 weeks. Still some anxiety in the morning, and sometime the obsessive thoughts are back, but almost of the time I really don’t care about it. It has lessened a lot. I’m more positive and have most of the time good energy. 
I hope it will continue like this and that I will be able to start my taper! Fingers crossed 🤞🏻!

[Shep]

Thanks for the update, Mimi. Glad things are going well. 

[Hanna72]

22 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

I’m just stopping by for an update. I’m doing pretty good since the last 2 weeks. Still some anxiety in the morning, and sometime the obsessive thoughts are back, but almost of the time I really don’t care about it. It has lessened a lot. I’m more positive and have most of the time good energy. 
I hope it will continue like this and that I will be able to start my taper! Fingers crossed 🤞🏻!

This is awesome, so happy for you😃

[Mimi79]

I think it’s time for another happy update! I don’t think I’m in a window, I think I’m experiencing an improved baseline.
Since my last wave, a month ago, I’m feeling pretty well. During this month, I’ve had mostly good days and sometime very good days. I had few bad days too, not a lot, and it wasn’t as bad as my last wave.

And surprisingly, even if I’m in my PMS (it tends to be a hard time for me), It doesn’t seems to throw me in a wave right now. I’m very happy about that!

I hope I will continue to improve in the next weeks, so I can start my taper in July. 

Thank you all of us for your support and good week-end everyone!

 

Mimi
 

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, Mimi. Please look around for others in the Intro forum suffering waves and tell them you know it does get better.

[Hanna72]

That’s great news mimi, so happy for you, the good days will keep on coming.

Take care🙏

 

[Rosetta]

Great news!!!

[Mimi79]

Since last week, I’m in a wave. Not too bad, not the worse I’ve experienced, but it’s not funny because I’m on my first week off of my summer vacations. I’ve planned a lot of activities and now have barely the energy to do them.

 

I want to share how I feel right now.
I have the impression of being a tightrope walker, walking on his wire, always on the verge of tipping over on one side or the other. This is how I often feel in this kind of wave. One hour I feel good, one hour later I feel bad. On the same day. 
 

For now, I apply one of my tips in this situation. I follow my plan, I do what I was suppose to do, even if I don’t want to. It prevent me to feel guilty about being a dull mother for my kids...
 

[Hanna72]

Dear mimi. Yes these waves are frustrating and weird. I have also experienced changes hour by hour. 
We can’t be to hard on ourselves, I know we a lot of times want to be able to do more but we can’t. And that’s ok, cause we will have the greatest reward, freedom 🙏

Acceptance is the key I believe. At least it’s something I have had to practice in recovery. Don’t forget about the progress that you already have . Your kids will appreciate what a strong mom they have, cause you are strong and you want the best for yourself and your kids in the long run.

For now your body is in a repair mode. 
My best wishes to you, and enjoy your summer vacation 

Hugs from Iceland 💖

[Erell]

15 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Since last week, I’m in a wave. Not too bad, not the worse I’ve experienced, 

 

Dear Mimi,

 

even if unpleasant, this is quite a good news : your wave sounds less intense, you are stabilising, slowly and gradually ❤️

 

You're not a dull mother, you're a mother fighting for life and happiness : actually you sound like a wonderful mother !

 

Je suis partante pour se rencontrer un jour en visio

 

Take care ❤️

 

[Mimi79]

Thanks a lot @Hanna72 and @Erell, your support is so appreciated! 😊
I don’t know how I would be without SA and everyone here. 

I’m feeling better since the last few days. It was a small wave. And I continued to do my tasks and my activities so I forgot my negative thoughts. 
I’m getting ready for my first family camping weekend. It will be good to be in nature for few days with my kids. Me and hubby are renovating a (old) small pop-up camper and it will be our first camping with it. Hope it will go well! 
Thanks again and have a good weekend!

Hugs to you all!🤗

 

[Tom37]

Thanks for your posts today.

 

You sound like your coming along nicely in your recovery. Your just out of a small wave so hope that means you will get to be well on your camping trip and get a sense of what life is like after wd. 
 

[Mimi79]

Hello everyone,

It is time for an update. Good news and bad news, I will start with the good one...

From mid June until end of July, I’ve been almost « wave free »! Few or no W/D symptoms at all. Almost normal everyday. I’ve had wonderful camping trips with friends and family. 
It was so good to feel almost normal for a long length of time like this. I was full of hope for the next steps in my recovery as I was planning to start my taper journey at the end of august.

 

But the bad news come... Since the last 10 days or so, I’ve been slowly falling in a wave. And I find it pretty hard, especially because I naively thought that I was done with those kind of wave. I realize it’s harder to hit wave after a long bout of feeling good.

 

I still don’t understand why this wave happened. Maybe a little bit more stress at my job,  maybe my hormones. I really don’t know. My symptoms are mostly anxiety, a little bit of depression feelings, and my worst one, awful intrusive thoughts! I hate this one!!
 

And it’s a bad timing, because me and my family are going camping for the next week, far from home. It is our little family trip (in Covid time) for this summer. I would have liked to be in my best shape for this week. I’m so disappointed 😔!

 

I cross my finger that this wave won’t last too long and that those awful intrusive thoughts will go away. Each time they come back, I’m afraid that they will last forever and that I will become crazy... 

 

Thank you everyone for your support, I guess I need some encouragement. 

 

Bye-bye! 

[ChessieCat]

There are other members who have experienced a wave after a holiday.

[Mimi79]

@ChessieCat Thank you!

I want to add that I’m having another UTI since last weekend and I’m taking antibiotic (no quinolone) to treat it. Could it be causing or worsening a wave?

[ChessieCat]

Yes, taking an antibiotic can possibly cause an uptick in symptoms.

[Hanna72]

Dear @Mimi79

I am sorry to hear about your struggles these days. I hope you will have some relief soon🙏
These waves and windows patterns are strange while we recover. Know that this is the process towards our healing. I am so very happy to see that you could enjoy such a wonderful window this summer. ☀️
You will get through this wave, and a wonderful window awaits you.

Believe in yourself, this journey will only strengthen you. Every little progress ends up in big results for us all. 
My thoughts are with you, hang in there.

Hugs to you dear mimi💖

 

[Rosetta]

 I hope your camping trip went well.  Sometimes getting away helps.  You are distracted, and don’t think as much.

[Mimi79]

@Rosetta 

On 8/13/2020 at 12:26 PM, Rosetta said:

Sometimes getting away helps.  You are distracted, and don’t think as much.

This is exactly what happened. As soon as we went away from home, my starting wave disappeared. I’ve had a wonderful camping week with my family and my brother’s family. It was a nice camping trip, in our wonderful province. Went to watch whales, doing wonderful walks by the sea. I realize that when we are surrounded by nature and beautiful landscape, it helps to feel better and calmer.

 

Unfortunately, since I’m back home and at work, my wave is back with a vengeance. Almost like it was waiting for me... I have intrusive thoughts and anxiety at moderate level. Hope I will be better soon, as I was planning to resume my taper in September. 
 

I need to focus on positive thinking, as I’ve had at least the chance to have a wonderful summer, with low symptoms. 
 

 

[Mimi79]

Is it normal that after numerous months of feeling pretty well, I still experience such bad waves as the one I’m actually in? Since the last week, I’ve fallen in an intense wave, very hard to manage. I have full of awful intrusive thoughts and it makes my anxiety worsened. I have no explanation, except I’ve just finished my vacations. 

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Is it normal that after numerous months of feeling pretty well, I still experience such bad waves as the one I’m actually in? Since the last week, I’ve fallen in an intense wave, very hard to manage. I have full of awful intrusive thoughts and it makes my anxiety worsened. I have no explanation, except I’ve just finished my vacations. 

 

Yes, this can happen.  As I posted previously other members have mentioned experiencing waves before, during and/or after holidays./travel.

 

Also:

 

On 8/8/2020 at 1:39 PM, Mimi79 said:

I want to add that I’m having another UTI since last weekend and I’m taking antibiotic (no quinolone) to treat it. Could it be causing or worsening a wave?

 

And:

 

Q:  Were you able to stick to your normal drug time?

 

Q:  Did you possibly miss a dose?

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Mimi79]

@ChessieCat Thank you for your rapid response.

I will answer to your question:

Yes, despite my antibiotic traitement, I was able to keep my normal drug time. But, I was on camping trip for the last 2 weeks and then my usual day schedule was a little bit messed up. My sleep pattern was different and I was going to bed at least one or two our later than my usual pattern. I usually take my Mirtazapine right before going to bed, so I took it later than my usual schedule. Maybe it is one of the cause of this bad wave.

I‘m pretty sure that I didn’t miss a dose.

While I was on my family trip, I took a little bit of alcohol (some glass of beer and wine). I try to avoid it as much as possible, but with friends and family, it’s hard. 
I Have a lot of stress about this year’s « Back to school » period. It is the first time in months (Since the pandemic) that my kids will return to school. Returning to this rushing everyday routine with school, ballet class, etc, it is causing me some anxiety. And of course there is the anxiety about the Covid19 itself, now that my kids will be surrounded by all their classmates. Maybe all this stuff triggers my actual wave... Despite I’m not so worry about Covid-19 in general...

[Mimi79]

I’m just reading the « Anatomy of an Epidemic » book and I’m so afraid because it says that some people aren’t able to stop ADs and heal. Some people, after stopping ADs, stay in bad state for the rest of their life, like if the CNS isn’t able to cure itself. Is-it true?! Because it is so frightening! I can’t believe I will pass over this hard process and not healing at the end? 
I’m panicked about that!

please, could someone can reassure me?

Thanks!

[Mimi79]

I am panicking now, as I just realize that a lot of people don’t get better after tapering, even if they do it slowly. Before, I was thinking that everyone could heal. Now, I have this awful doubt that few people really can. Is it true? 
I’m so lost and hopeless, I need some reassurance.

[Shep]

Mimi, this is a great post that Alto made in one of the "never gonna heal" type of threads on the forum:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17001-where-are-all-the-success-stories-does-nobody-ever-heal/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-238131

 

We don't know enough about withdrawal and all of the outcomes to tell everyone that they will heal and when this will happen. All we can do is provide the safest protocol for coming off these drugs and encourage as much self care as possible. 

 

There are far too many success stories here and on other sites to believe that healing isn't possible. Please don't sabotage your recovery with training your brain in catastrophic thinking. As Alto wrote in that post: 

 

On 7/22/2016 at 6:46 PM, Altostrata said:

It's best for your nervous system to have positive expectations for healing and to assess your symptoms very realistically and not through a pessimistic lens, which tends to make make problems even bigger and more distressing.

 

Also, it's best to set yourself up for the best outcome. 

 

6 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

While I was on my family trip, I took a little bit of alcohol (some glass of beer and wine). I try to avoid it as much as possible, but with friends and family, it’s hard. 

 

These are the kinds of things that we see setting people back. Since you've been exposed to benzos and a z-drug, it's even more reason to avoid anything like alcohol that hits the same GABA receptors as these drugs.

 

The more you nurture your nervous system with healthy foods, gentle exercise, avoiding negative thoughts, etc., the more likely you'll recover. Try to keep your focus there and not on the scary stories. 

[Mimi79]

@Shep Thank you so much for your response. I’m really in an negative emotional spiral, like you call them. It has been so much time that I’m feeling better, that I almost forgot how it is hard to feel like this.

I have another question. Maybe it doesn’t help either, but I’m training for an half-marathon actually (as I do every summer since the last 7 years). I know that hard exercises can trigger waves, but I’m so accustomed to this kind of exercices that I thought it will be ok for me. Should I stop it?

 

Mimi

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Mimi79 said:

I’m training for an half-marathon actually (as I do every summer since the last 7 years). I know that hard exercises can trigger waves, but I’m so accustomed to this kind of exercices that I thought it will be ok for me. Should I stop it?

 

How you are at this time is not how you have been in the past.

 

If you find that your training is making things worse, then go slower/do less.  It might be better to do gentler training 2 or 3 times during the day instead of all in one go if possible.

 

Only you can decide if you want to push yourself and possibly make things worse.  If you did make things worse nobody can say how long it would take for things to settle down again.  And it may also be possible that if you overdo it that you might not be able to get back to how you are now.  That is something to consider.  And no, we don't know if that will happen, it's just something to think about.

 

Perhaps instead of participating you could train at your own pace as if you were going to participate but either don't participate or just do as much of the half marathon as you can.

 

It's not all or nothing.  You can tailor it to suit how you are currently.

[Mimi79]

I was running regularly since the beginning of the summer without any problems. But now I’m searching reasons to explain my actual wave. I think I will slow down. I want to get better, it is the only thing I want right now...

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

es, despite my antibiotic traitement, I was able to keep my normal drug time. But, I was on camping trip for the last 2 weeks and then my usual day schedule was a little bit messed up. My sleep pattern was different and I was going to bed at least one or two our later than my usual pattern. I usually take my Mirtazapine right before going to bed, so I took it later than my usual schedule. Maybe it is one of the cause of this bad wave.

I‘m pretty sure that I didn’t miss a dose.

While I was on my family trip, I took a little bit of alcohol (some glass of beer and wine). I try to avoid it as much as possible, but with friends and family, it’s hard. 
I Have a lot of stress about this year’s « Back to school » period. It is the first time in months (Since the pandemic) that my kids will return to school. Returning to this rushing everyday routine with school, ballet class, etc, it is causing me some anxiety. And of course there is the anxiety about the Covid19 itself, now that my kids will be surrounded by all their classmates. Maybe all this stuff triggers my actual wave... Despite I’m not so worry about Covid-19 in general...

 

Re-read what you posted before.

[Mimi79]

@ChessieCat 🧐 Yes it seems clear that the last month was busy for me!! I wrote this post last night, I even forgot it! 
I have a lot of work to do to face the waves. Since I was pretty lucky (no big waves since May), I didn’t have the need to practice all the tips you are giving us. So when I hit a wave, I feel helpless. I lose all my self control. And the main symptom I have in this wave is bad intrusives Thoughts about my kids. It is far the worst for me. It’s hard for me to be with my girls and having those thoughts. So challenging.

I hope it will pass soon...

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Mimi79 said:

I didn’t have the need to practice all the tips you are giving us.

 

When you are in a window is a good time to check out non drug coping skills and learn some, even jot down a list as a reminder for later when you need them.  That way when a wave hits you are more likely to be able to use something that you already know, instead of trying to cope without a skill and trying to learn something new at the same time.

[Mimi79]

@brassmonkey  I read what you wrote to Erell about intrusives thoughts:

  « It does take a lot of practice to regain control, but each time you try, you make a little headway and the process becomes easier. »

I’m a little lost to find a way to regain control by a step by step approach. I don’t know what step I should do first. I know I have to separate my thoughts from myself, but don’t know how to do it with convictions... 
I know the wave brings intrusive thoughts, and intrusive thoughts exacerbate the wave... I would like to reverse this spiral, but don’t know where to start, except trying to self care.

Do you have a suggestion that could help me? A phrase or exercice I could try?

This wave is so hard...

Thank you so much for your help...

Mimi79

[Artistic1]

@Mimi79 Hi. I just read your last post about intrusive thoughts and what steps to take to deal with them. There really are no magic steps....I used to think there were, but different things will work for different people. By the way, the idea is not to get rid of thoughts - that's not even possible. In fact, if you try to stop them, they get stronger!

 

Like you, I was desperate to find something that would help. What I found is that it really doesn't matter where you start with coping skills. I started with Self-Help books, but really, those just got to be confusing. Here are some things that really helped me to deal with intrusive thoughts.

 

1. I started watching Eckhart Tolle on YouTube, and his advice and philosophy about the power of living in the Now really helped me. His earlier videos address some of the basics in dealing with thoughts. Then I bought his book "The Power of Now." There were things in there that helped, too.

2. I got a really good CBT therapist, and that was another step. We didn't just talk. She gave me practical exercises to help with my thinking. I did those over and over until they became second nature.

3. I started listening to Dr. Amy Johnson on YouTube....she is wonderful! She's all about how the mind works and about our thoughts, and it's just so simple. She has a small book called "The Little Book of Big Change," and an online school called "The Little School of Big Change." I haven't done the school. You can get pretty much all you need from her on YouTube. She has a new podcast every Monday - you can subscribe to it.

From all this, I discovered how the mind really works, and that if I didn't run from my thoughts and try to stop them, I was better off. When my mind starts doing its annoying thing, I just stop for a moment and let the thoughts come in. I actually take a look at them instead of trying to dismiss them or distract myself from them, and then I can see what's true or false about each one. That took my fear of them away, which is a huge step. 

 

Each thing you do builds on the next. You find what works and discard what doesn't. Sometimes, what works at one point doesn't work down the road, but I see that as progress in rebuilding my thinking process. It's all about practice so your brain can retrain itself.

 

You mentioned doing it "with conviction," but that's not necessary. Once you start taking some steps, your brain will rebuild its thinking circuits, and that brings the "conviction." It's taken me 3 years to find peace with my thoughts. Sometimes, my mind still runs rampant, and it can be disturbing, but it's not like it used to be, and that's a huge step forward.

 

Good luck! I hope some of these things might be helpful.

[brassmonkey]

Very nice post Artistic1.

 

As I mentioned to Erell, these things can't be taught, only learned. It calls for doing a lot of reading on various subjects, CBT, Mindfullness, Living in the Now, Meditation, relaxation techniques. If something sound like it may help give it a try. Try different things and let them meld into each other. They will overlap and combine into something that will work for you.

 

One way of separating from the thoughts is using the reaction I mentioned to Erell. "Wow, that's a wild idea, where did that come from, it's not me".  Then instead of fearing the thought, dig into it. Take it apart bit by bit until you understand why it is not you. After you've done that a few times with the same thought you should be able to start saying something like, "oh, that again, I've dealt with you, go away I have better things to think about." It's just one of many techniques to disarm them.

[Mimi79]

Thank you @Artistic1, and @brassmonkey.

I will add Amy Johnson to my Podcast list. 
I have the Eckart Tolle’s book,  power of now, since few years, but I didn’t read it. I will now.

I think the reason why I’m so discouraged about my intrusive thoughts, it’s that I know it is caused by the drugs, because I’ve never experienced such thoughts before this year. I’m not an OCD person at all. So I’m angry about the drugs who gave me those problems. I had a bout of intrusive thoughts few months ago, and it vanish by itself, without doing nothing, when the wave stopped. So I expect it would be the same this time too. 
I’ve seen a CBT specialist last spring, and we try to address my Intrusive thoughts problem, but she didn’t recognize it was caused by the drug, so it didn’t really help. We were doing exposure therapy and it was very exhausting, and I’m not sure it was a good idea to do exposure therapy to rule « neuroemotions », in the middle of a wave. And it was sooo expensive! 120$ each week!

I know that in February, when I was hit for the first time by intrusive thoughts, I started to have an inner speech. It was going like this: « Ok, now I have this thought, I welcome it, because it is part of my life experience, but I dissociate myself from this thought, because it does not represent the person that I am, my values. I don't have to worry about it. » 

It’s a little bit long, but do you think it is a good start? I remember it helped me a bit, but now it is less effective. Maybe I need to give it more time.

I really need to have a better approach toward my intrusive thoughts, because I have the feeling that it will be a persistent symptom on my recovery road, like other have akathisia,  muscle twitching or depression. 
 

Thank you all for your advises and help. I can’t believe I have to live what I’m living now. It is so hard! And I haven’t even start my taper! So discouraging...

 

Mimi79

 

[MarieR]

15 hours ago, Artistic1 said:

@Mimi79 Hi. I just read your last post about intrusive thoughts and what steps to take to deal with them. There really are no magic steps....I used to think there were, but different things will work for different people. By the way, the idea is not to get rid of thoughts - that's not even possible. In fact, if you try to stop them, they get stronger!

 

Like you, I was desperate to find something that would help. What I found is that it really doesn't matter where you start with coping skills. I started with Self-Help books, but really, those just got to be confusing. Here are some things that really helped me to deal with intrusive thoughts.

 

1. I started watching Eckhart Tolle on YouTube, and his advice and philosophy about the power of living in the Now really helped me. His earlier videos address some of the basics in dealing with thoughts. Then I bought his book "The Power of Now." There were things in there that helped, too.

2. I got a really good CBT therapist, and that was another step. We didn't just talk. She gave me practical exercises to help with my thinking. I did those over and over until they became second nature.

3. I started listening to Dr. Amy Johnson on YouTube....she is wonderful! She's all about how the mind works and about our thoughts, and it's just so simple. She has a small book called "The Little Book of Big Change," and an online school called "The Little School of Big Change." I haven't done the school. You can get pretty much all you need from her on YouTube. She has a new podcast every Monday - you can subscribe to it.

From all this, I discovered how the mind really works, and that if I didn't run from my thoughts and try to stop them, I was better off. When my mind starts doing its annoying thing, I just stop for a moment and let the thoughts come in. I actually take a look at them instead of trying to dismiss them or distract myself from them, and then I can see what's true or false about each one. That took my fear of them away, which is a huge step. 

 

Each thing you do builds on the next. You find what works and discard what doesn't. Sometimes, what works at one point doesn't work down the road, but I see that as progress in rebuilding my thinking process. It's all about practice so your brain can retrain itself.

 

You mentioned doing it "with conviction," but that's not necessary. Once you start taking some steps, your brain will rebuild its thinking circuits, and that brings the "conviction." It's taken me 3 years to find peace with my thoughts. Sometimes, my mind still runs rampant, and it can be disturbing, but it's not like it used to be, and that's a huge step forward.

 

Good luck! I hope some of these things might be helpful.

Hello! I checked into Dr. Amy Johnson yesterday afternoon as I had never heard of her. I've read and revisited Tolle for years and am always awed by him, but Dr. Johnson has a way of explaining the same things in ways that are more accessible to my current brain functioning. : ) She is just what I needed. Thank you for sharing!