Ella56: Drug withdrawal

[Ella56]

I think i was starting to feel i had some control and getting stable on the 1mg and this has knocked me off and makes me feel i went backwards and I did

 

Also putting more drugs in my body terrifies me even though 1ml didnt freak me out as much. 

[Colonial]

Well, if you want to believe the worst, and assume it's the up dose, when it's most likely the stress, there's nothing anyone can do.

You have to take control of your thoughts and stop letting your fears rule you.

Otherwise it doesn't matter what dose you take, your still never going to get better.

Don't forget to fix your signature line.

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Ella-- ADs are not "happy pills", there is no such thing.  They do not give instant relief to anything.  They work by making changes to how the body controls various neurotransmitters and that, in the eyes of the doctors is meant to make us feel better.  For the body to make those changes it takes a long time, not just a few hours or a day or two. When we make any change in dose t takes a minimum of four days but usually more like seven to ten days, for the drug to reach a constant level in the blood.  Once that happens the body can start to stabilize and hopefully our symptoms will start to do so too.  The Symptoms won't go away, they will just start to calm down and become more tolerable. It not like taking an aspirin for a headache, things don't get better just because we too a pill.  It is a tricky balancing act where the game clock resets to "0" every time a change is made.

 

It is not all that important if an updose is 1mgai or 1.5mgai, there is really very little difference.  The important thing is to keep the dose small and consistent, so the body can sort things out as best as it can. Trying to fine tune the dose is an impossible task. There are too many variables and the body can react to each dose just a little differently. But if we pick a spot and stay with it, trust our bodies and let them work things out we will eventually stabilize and regain control of the situation.  While that is happening we have to try and relax and accept as much as possible because overthinking the situation and symptoms will just make them worse.

 

Trying to recognize stability on an hour by hour or day by day basis will not work.  It must be looked at over the long term in weeks and more than likely months.  This is a game of patience and slow careful moves.  Acceptance of ones current condition and making slow moves to improve it are key to healing. There is no "quick fix", believe me we've heard of and tried every one of them and have found that only giving the body a stable dose and time, lots and lots of time, really works.

[Ella56]

Hello, @brassmonkey i have been going over the notes for the last hour or two and see there was a lot of info I missed and I will need to read what u just sent me again to make an informed decision forward.  All i know is i feel really bad right now. I pulled this out from  what .@manymoredays wrote: 

 

If you have a bad reaction to a small increase, or even with reinstatement, then you can stop it. 

if i stop and go back to 1mg will i be hurting myself..she said here i can? 

 

Or ..i could wait til 7 days but i have anxiety panic and sleeplessnes but i could feel a bit better yhen on 1ml.

 

Sorry if u explained this above.but its late and will have to read it again.

 

I want to get to a state of steady hold for months.. The less of drug daily in my body the best in my eyes.

But maybe i cant even look at it that way. I will be ok on either just as long as it is consistent? So now if i go back to 1ml it will throw me off a bit again and might not work as well as it was..or that isnt even a issue...those are some of the fears i was having..No magic pill in as if i take 1.5ml i will suffer less? 

tryjng to balance 

So going back to 1 would be resetting to 0 and i have to wait 10 days again?

 

And are u also saying that 1 or the other is not going to work better? Or maybe the symptoms will be milder with 1.5 but would have to stay on this much longer and see. It is if it isnt i eas afraid i wouldnt be able to go back and have to stay on it anyways for months til i taper. I hope i am making sense. 

 

[Ella56]

March 21

 

1am panic

2 still awake

630 am woke panic, stomach nausea heat wave

8am depression

1030 adrenal surge stomack sick

12pm shaky dizxy stomach sick

Layed down a half hour

 

1pm took celexa 1.5 

230 pm anxiety anger

4pm dizzy cant focus ringing in my head lack of energy

Sat i sun half hour

640 pm anxiety shaky disoriented

Crying spell emotions in my stomach

840 tea omegas

930pm depressed extremely fearful

12am still awake breathing exercises 

Anxiety sleeplessness and panic have been the worse since the change..and sense i messed up my small bit of gain i was getting 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, Ella56 said:

Anxiety sleeplessness and panic have been the worse since the change..and sense i messed up my small bit of gain i was getting 

 

If you are going to continue to scare yourself about the increase to 1.5mg, I'd go back to 1mg. But you have to stop scaring yourself at 1mg, too.

 

You have a lot to worry about. My guess is your worry is swirling around and attaching itself to the Celexa updose, even if it's actually not doing anything, because you're always beating yourself up over making mistakes even if they're not mistakes.

 

If going back to 1mg Celexa stops your worrying about it, I'd go back to it. Make sure you take the same amount at the same time each day.

 

Stop worrying about how much Celexa you're taking and focus on getting your living situation settled.

[Ella56]

Sorry, Im in fear about any decisions. I suggested 1.25 to work my way back down...2 days or so.  Is that not necessary ?

[Colonial]

22 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I'm done dickering about the dosage, Ella. Pick a dosage and stick to it. It's up to you.

 

ALTO:  

If you are going to continue to scare yourself about the increase to 1.5mg, I'd go back to 1mg. But you have to stop scaring yourself at 1mg, too. You have a lot to worry about. My guess is your worry is swirling around and attaching itself to the Celexa updose, even if it's actually not doing anything, because you're always beating yourself up over making mistakes even if they're not mistakes. If going back to 1mg Celexa stops your worrying about it, I'd go back to it. Stop worrying about how much Celexa you're taking and focus on getting your living situation settled.

 

 

ELLA: Sorry, Im in fear about any decisions. I suggested 1.25 to work my way back down...2 days or so.  Is that not necessary ?

 

Ella? Sweetie? No, it is NOT NECESSARY to go to 1.25. You need to STOP worrying about which dose to pick, and stop Repeatedly asking the same questions to the Mods.  They will loose their patience and I don't want to see them stop answering You in the future all together because you wore them out.

 

My Opinion, either stay at 1.5 or go back to 1mg.  Because if you switch to 1.25, your still going to continue to worry that MAYBE you should have gone down to 1mg.

We can not make our decisions out of fear. And we can not go back and change a mistake.  The issue now is Your housing, not the Celexa dose.  

1.5 or 1.0, pick one, stay with it, and move along to the bigger issues You have. 

Remember than constantly changing it from one to the other is more likely to make you worse than increasing the dose.

Good luck. ❤️  

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Ella56 said:

Sorry, Im in fear about any decisions. I suggested 1.25 to work my way back down...2 days or so.  Is that not necessary ?

 

To be honest, I don't think it matters. Whether you take 1mg, 1.25mg, or 1.5mg, it's going to be the same thing -- you're going to be fixating on your citalopram dose when your real problems are elsewhere. Which is something we truly cannot help you with.

 

Just pick a dosage and stick to it.

[Ella56]

March 22

12 am awake anxiety

3am to 530am slept

530 woke in panic

Stayed sleeping off and on til 8am

9am omega mag

11am crying spell

1pm 1 mg celexa

Stomach emotions pain

Ringing in my ear

2 to 3pm sat in the sun

330 went for half hour walk

6pm shaky afraid what the med drop  will do, head ringing

8pm very tired omega mag

9pm went to bed slept most of the night woke 130 am a bit then slept til 630am

[mstimc]

Hi Ella

I scanned through your thread from the beginning, so please forgive me if I missed it, but  have you tried practicing any kind of coping strategies to address your underlying anxiety and depression?

[manymoretodays]

Hi Ella,

I know you reported trying at least once, a non-drug coping skill.  You might just add on in, briefly, to your notes, what you tried, when you do use the non-drug coping skills.

And yes, stick to the same dose, for 4-7 days.  As explained, you won't likely even feel the difference in your dosage, until then.  And that applies to if it helps, even a little, or if it doesn't help at all.

 

Don't worry so much about coming off the teeny updosage or reinstatement, now either.  That's not going to be a problem, when you feel better, and more capable, and less into symptoms and obsessions over symptoms.

 

I see coping skills on page one, two, and six, and seven, and/or links to them,  that you could look at again, and try and pick a few to practice.

 

Best to you today,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Ella56]

9 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Ella,

I know you reported trying at least once, a non-drug coping skill.  You might just add on in, briefly, to your notes, what you tried, when you do use the non-drug coping skills.

And yes, stick to the same dose, for 4-7 days.  As explained, you won't likely even feel the difference in your dosage, until then.  And that applies to if it helps, even a little, or if it doesn't help at all.

 

Don't worry so much about coming off the teeny updosage or reinstatement, now either.  That's not going to be a problem, when you feel better, and more capable, and less into symptoms and obsessions over symptoms.

 

I see coping skills on page one, two, and six, and seven, and/or links to them,  that you could look at again, and try and pick a few to practice.

 

Best to you today,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

I went down to 1mg. I am feeling better. 

@mstimc @manymoretodays I need to read over a lot of the offered coping skill info. Just busy with the move. Right now it is sun, exercise, music, lots of downtime. Thank you. 

[Ella56]

March 23

630 am slept most of the night 

9am feeling some rage from the depth of my being again

 

11:15 pm dr appt told dr everything i am going through, she listened but though i should be through it by now

 

1230pm 

My daughter told me that noone can come to her house right now because she lives with her bf Dad who is not well andl.she is afraid to get the virus and the patients get sick where she works or the people she lives with. Even I.cant come. I trying not to let this hurt me i understand but how long could this  We could not see eachother a longtime and how to deal with that. Or granddaughter. We have just been healing and getting close again. And the impending move. Trying to stay calm. 

 

230 pm took 1mg celexa I forgot to take at 1pm after talking to daughter

 

3 pm sat in sun

 

430 went for walk anxiety

 

645 pm bath

830 shaky ringing in head

 

1130 awake trying to sleep

200am in emotional.pain.

[Ella56]

March 24

 

Emotional neuro pain all night, slept off and on

830 awake omegas mag

12pm weak shaky

1pm 1 mg celexa

2pm to 3 napped woke uo screaming

 

330 had phone counsel w somatic therapist..she thinks my cns is in freeze mode 

 

5pm diaphrambreathing 

 

6pm bath so tired cns no energy

8pm in bed selp til 1am 

 

I have had some reaction to something hands and arms red itchy. 

[Subzero42]

Do you feel better since you reinstated than when you were off ? I’m having trouble to find the amount of drug I should reinstate myself 

[Ella56]

3 hours ago, Subzero42 said:

Do you feel better since you reinstated than when you were off ? I’m having trouble to find the amount of drug I should reinstate myself 

Yes i feel better at 1mg. It looks like you are on 40mg efflexor?  Is that right? 

[Ella56]

Trying to not over stress my nervous system. Today I texted my landlord/roommate with very valid reasons why I should stay for 3 more days...because of 14 day isolation and also i can not move to new place til 31st. She gave me notice for the 28th. She said no and gave her reasons..someone coming.  I just texted back Wow. What i am trying to say is she got a rise out of me with my comment. That put my system into shock fear again. I dont have the ability to handle much not that i really was proud of my response. It wasnt clear and more like an attack.

So now trying to calm my system down. I went for a walk and neighbour had a flag in his garage that was from my hometown..i mentioned briefly it and then he wanted to talk. I had to close that down politely. That overwhelmed me..shouldn't of said anything just smile. Cant handle talking.  Hope i get more capacity.  So i am moving Sat and have to make a lot of extra arrangements for the 3 day difference. Thanks for listening. Watching dr claires videos. 

[Colonial]

6 minutes ago, Ella56 said:

. She gave me notice for the 28th. She said no and gave her reasons..someone coming.  I just texted back Wow. What i am trying to say is she got a rise out of me with my comment.

 

Texting is not an effective way for communicating important matters, considering how easy it is to emotionally "read" something into a persons response that might not be there.

Do You rent a room in a house from this person?

where are you going for the 3 days?

 

[Ella56]

Yes i was renting a room.  I havent decided where i am going. If sister is away will stay at her house. We are all in self isolation

[Colonial]

 

Hopefully it will be better for You as well.

I understand it seems unfair to be asked to leave so quickly, but You have to appreciate it from Her end. 

Your waking up in the middle of the night screaming and throwing things.

She has no idea how stable You are or aren't, and She has to protect Herself and who else is in the house.

Where is the new place You are going starting the 31st?

[Ella56]

That is not what happened at all. I dont know where you even got that idea? 

[Ella56]

Why i text here about it was to explain how easy my nervous system goes off into panic.

[Ella56]

She was asking me to put on gloves to remove dishes from dishwasher. I told her that seemed extreme. That is when we had an argument. She knew nothing of my anger coming out at night and didn't hear anything and i never through things. She was moving to Mexico for a job cuz she's self-employed and put the house up for sale and was leaving at that date but now she can't. But the house is an Airbnb and she was able to rent it out for 3 days for 225 at night. It is about money.

[Colonial]

8 hours ago, Ella56 said:

2pm to 3 napped woke up screaming

 

You've posted numerous times your waking up screaming. 

And I could be wrong, but i thought you had posted about throwing things as well.

And if your texting her that your nervous system is not well, (which she knows from the screaming) it's another reason that the situation is difficult for her as well.

You have to understand that fact that Your destabilized affects others in close proximity to you.

[Ella56]

That is your interpretation. I screamed into pillow. 

[Colonial]

 

But moving forward, are You happy with the new place Your going on the 31st?

 

[Colonial]

 

She was asking me to put on gloves to remove dishes from dishwasher. I told her that seemed extreme. That is when we had an argument.

 

But again, if You don't have a place to go, and your being difficult refusing a legitimate request in a Pandemic, you have to see why She wouldn't give You extra days.

You might not realize to what extent the WD is causing problems for other people in close proximity.  

I only mention it because if your moving into another "close quarters" facility it can happen again, and you don't want to end up in a cycle of repeatedly being asked to leave.

 

I'm not saying it's all your fault, I'm really not. But You do need to appreciate the stress Your condition can be placing other people under without You knowing it.

You have to pick your battles wisely, Ella, If I had no where to go the last thing I would be arguing about was wearing gloves, even if I didn't think it necessary.

Your just giving Her more reasons to hold Her ground.

[Ella56]

@Colonial

You are making assumptions again. This was way before the pandemic

[Colonial]

 

Well, you posted it as if it just happened and it comes across as the reason You didn't get the extension to stay longer.

But again, if Your going to argue over what was a legitimate request, putting clean dishes away with gloves on so they don't get germs on them, then you could be causing your own problems.  People have a standard of living they expect tenants to live according to.  If your not able or willing to do that, then it's best for everyone involved, including yourself to move on.

I realize when we're in WD things upset us more than usual, but we can't allow that to define how we react with others.

 

So Im interested in knowing, where is the new place you said you were going to, that you needed the 3 extra days to hold you over until you moved in?

Do You think it's a good fit?

[Ella56]

@Colonial I will pass on any advice or comments you have in the future.  

[Ella56]

March 25

Slept most of the night up at 630

9am anxiety the move

10 to 12 drove to town and back thats all the energy i had

1pm 1 mg celexa

1 to 2 sat in the sun

5pm very tired anxiety

630 bath

7pm listened to dr weekes videos

11pm feeling overwhelming not sleeping upset

 

 

[Ella56]

I am feeling such a yucky experience right now can hardly explain it. I know my head is trying to figure things out but my body is stuck in total exhaustion mode and no matter how much rest i get it is not feeling rested. My thoughts are just round and round and no direction or clarity.  I want to get angry and get things out how i was last week at least but this week depression inward self hatred self harm feelings powerless feelings blocked energy..deep sadness And apathy. I know hate is undersneath but no energy to express it. This is a little emotional therapy talk but it could be the wd symptoms.? 

[Ella56]

Talked to a lady yesterday who ended up in the hospital after 27 years of meds and tapered quickly. Now living with daughter and back on meds. She had a month of hell wd.

I ct and went througb so much trauma and didnt know what was happening for months and have the affects of a messed up nervous system.

I want to know how do you also get through the trauma of the months of ct ..that in itself is trauma  ?  Once your cns heals it wont be a trauma when u think about it? Its 6 months and it seems worse. 

[Ella56]

Talked to a lady yesterday who ended up in the hospital after 27 years of meds and tapered quickly. Now living with daughter and back on meds. She had a month of hell wd.

I ct and went througb so much trauma and didnt know what was happening for months and have the effects of a messed up nervous system..that is what most are saying here and what i am going through.

I want to know how do you also get through the trauma of the months of ct ..that in itself is trauma  ?  The trauma is lost my house, no where to go,  felt abandoned by people i thought would help,  felt alone and was helpless through the wd. 

[Ella56]

1 hour ago, Ella56 said:

I am feeling such a yucky experience right now can hardly explain it. I know my head is trying to figure things out but my body is stuck in total exhaustion mode and no matter how much rest i get it is not feeling rested. My thoughts are just round and round and no direction or clarity.  I want to get angry and get things out how i was last week at least but this week depression inward self hatred self harm feelings powerless feelings blocked energy..deep sadness And apathy. I know hate is undersneath but no energy to express it. This is a little emotional therapy talk but it could be the wd symptoms.? 

I also realize i am having intrusive thoughts and nevervnoticed that before.