Kingson: Effexor withdrawal

[Kingson]

After three misguided (via doctors) attempts at Effexor tapering, I found out the truth in the summer of 2017 and began a very slow taper from 75mg to my most recent taper of August 1st, 2019 when I reached about 50mg. Primarily I experienced fatigue and insomnia but after the August taper I started experiencing a weird anxiety-dread-panicky feeling that came and went. Since December, it's gotten worse. Despite occasional short windows (a couple of hours now and then), it seems I can't get comfortable. My large muscle groups in my upper body are always filled with "tension ache". It's maddening. Trying to take a nap is so hard, because after 15 minutes I get an intense fearful feeling in my chest (cortisol?). I want to think that this is will pass and the pain is just part of the healing process. I'm confused as to why I'm getting this reaction since I've been tapering so slowly. Any suggestions or insights would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

Kingson

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Kingson.

 

Yes, it does seem you've been tapering slowly.  What is your taper rate?  You likely  need to slow down further.  It also probably would be a good idea to hold now until your symptoms improve.  Generally, ramped up withdrawal symptoms are a sign you're tapering too fast.  

 

As a general rule, we recommend tapering by no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.  But some have to taper more slowly, 5% or even less.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

 A micro-taper is the gentlest way to come off these drugs. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

I'm guessing you're well versed in Effexor tapering at this point, but for your reference, the following link is specifically about tapering Effexor.

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

The symptoms you describe are typical withdrawal symptoms.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kingson]

Thank you for your kind response. I have been tapering at 5% and holding for at least two months. But as you said, I need to go even slower. I don't plan on tapering again until I feel completely stabilized for a couple of months at least. I have been taking fish oil and Magnesium glycate. I'm not sure if they're helping me, but I haven't had any brain zaps yet, so I'm thinking they're probably doing something behind the scenes. Thanks again.

[Kingson]

A little over a week ago I reinstated 2mg bringing me up to about 52mg. I thought I felt improvement at first, but things have gone downhill. I can't relax, cortisol surges, muscle aches (muscles feels like burning sometimes). I'm not sure what to do. Would reinstating another 1mg possibly help? Thank you.

Edited March 23, 2020 by manymoretodays
merged from S and SC, back to introduction

[manymoretodays]

Hi Kingson, @Kingson

How were you before the reinstatement?  Symptoms?  And when did symptoms get notably worse?

What form of Effexor are you using, e.g. XR/ER or immediate release?

How are you presently measuring dose changes?

(merged your new post in S and SCforum, back here to your intro.  Good to keep your questions, around your case, and specifics, all in one place, and this is the best place for them)

 

Welcome aboard too,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Kingson]

Before reinstatement anxious, cortisol surges, can't relax. After reinstatement I thought I felt better for a day then by the second day the previously mentioned symptoms emerged again, seemingly stronger. Three days ago a 3-4 hour window then the last two days seemed to be the most intense muscle aching including abdominal. I'm counting beads using extended release.

[Kingson]

I should point out that this morning I felt terrible but this afternoon better.

[manymoretodays]

That's good to hear Kingson.  How have symptoms been since Monday?  When do you take your dose of Effexor XR?

Have you tried any of the magnesium yet?

 

On 3/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, Kingson said:

I'm not sure what to do. Would reinstating another 1mg possibly help? Thank you.

If I were you, I don't think I would updose any further at this point. 

How many mgs(milligrams) of active ingrediant are in each bead, by your calculations?

I think I would ride it out a bit longer, as you just did that last updose, a little over a week ago.

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal syndrome

^ applies to updosing as well

 

Also, please put your medication and tapering history in your signature -- that's the information you see at the bottom of someone's post. This will help people understand your situation no matter where you post on the site. See instructions in this topic:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/18343-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/(Please note that, while your identity is protected by a screen name, your topic can be read by anyone who visits the site, including Google, and do not post sensitive identifying information.)

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Kingson]

Tuesday was rough with a lot of what I think are cortisol surges and muscle aches. This morning the same, although I now realize part of the discomfort is probably from an ulcer being aggravated. I take the pill around 6am. I do take magnesium and fish oil. By my calculations, each bead is .37 of active ingredient. Thank you for your advice. I'll try to figure out the signature for my tapering history.

[FindRest]

Hello, Kingson.  Sorry you are going through this. I too am tapering off Effexor. I had been on it over 20 years until last year when a series of events happened. I switched/reinstated back to Effexor XR Feb 1, 2020. I’ve had to titrate up a couple of times trying to find the right dose. What I’ve found is that my symptoms usually got better for the first couple of days after an updose then as the week went on, the symptoms got worse. Lots of muscle aches among many other things. Then, the symptoms would get better. Then, I’d still have some bad days, but overall things improved.  I’ve decided not to updose anymore because I don’t want to go through the roller coaster again that an updose causes. 
 

Another thing I wanted to point out. I take the Effexor XR brand name. My beads are all different sizes. Are your beads all the same size? If not, it really can make a difference. I bought a Gemini scale recommended here and now count AND weigh my beads (after sorting the beads into small, medium, and large). If your bead sizes are different and you don’t use a scale, I’d recommend at least sorting them out and trying to get the same number of each size every day. For example, I take 15 large beads and 7 medium-sized beads, for a total of 22. This is how I did it before I got the scale. Now I weigh them as well and try to get them to be the same weight. I read someone else’s post here who had tried to just weigh the beads (without sorting the sizes) and they had some problems stabilizing. I think it may have something to do with the amount of coating on each bead.

 

Hope this helps.

[FindRest]

Also, stomach pains, acid reflux, burning throat, and feeling like I have an ulcer have all been much worse recently as well. 

[Kingson]

Thank you FindRest. My beads are different sizes so I try to use only the largest ones.

[Frogie]

7 minutes ago, Kingson said:

Thank you FindRest. My beads are different sizes so I try to use only the largest ones.

I hope you are doing ok in this “quarantine”.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Kingson]

Thanks Frogie. I hope you're well.

[Frogie]

2 minutes ago, Kingson said:

Thanks Frogie. I hope you're well.

As well as we can be lol...

[Kingson]

After a failed taper I had reinstated to 75mg of Effexor about three years and have been fairly stable since. Suddenly, I feel like I'm backsliding into withdrawal. Could my body have become so accustomed to 75mg that it is now craving more? Thank you. 

[FireflyFyte]

57 minutes ago, Kingson said:

After a failed taper I had reinstated to 75mg of Effexor about three years and have been fairly stable since. Suddenly, I feel like I'm backsliding into withdrawal. Could my body have become so accustomed to 75mg that it is now craving more? Thank you. 

 

I moved your post to your introduction thread where we ask that you keep all your questions.

 

You can read about the "poop-out" scenario at 

 

[FindRest]

18 hours ago, Kingson said:

After a failed taper I had reinstated to 75mg of Effexor about three years and have been fairly stable since. Suddenly, I feel like I'm backsliding into withdrawal. Could my body have become so accustomed to 75mg that it is now craving more? Thank you. 

 

Can you please update your signature so we can give you our best advice? Looks like you haven’t posted in over 3 years. Please include all medications and supplements you are currently taking.

 

In the meantime, some things to consider are:

1) Have you checked to make sure the manufacturer hasn’t changed on your prescription bottle?

2) Have you recently started or stopped any other medication or supplement?

3) Has you prescription accidentally changed from XR to IR, or vice versa?

 

[Kingson]

Thank you, Mentor, I have updated my signature. It is the same manufacturer. I haven't started or stopped any other medications or supplements, and the rx is definitely XR. My gut feeling is that my body is recalibrating (so to speak). I think the fact that the medication from pill to pill is not exactly the same (at least that's my understanding) coupled with the possibility of tachyphylaxis is the issue. But who really knows? Any opinion or advice is greatly appreciated.

[FindRest]

 

Quote

 I finally stabilized and began to live a productive life again. So about three years back as a human being, although with mild depression that I deal with through various holistic methods. I'm resigned to having to stay on this drug. I won't go through that hell again and it's not fair to my wife and others who care about me. Unfortunately, the body pain now seems to be permanent”

 

I’m glad your increase to 75mg didn’t backfire and that you eventually were able to be productive once again. Although it’s not any fun going through even mild depression, the fact that it is “mild” is also a good sign that you are healing. Congrats on using other methods to cope with the depression. 
 

I can sure relate to the body pain. That has been one of my worst symptoms. I’ve come to realize that our muscles use serotonin to function. Unfortunately, it takes a very long time for our bodies to get back to some kind of homeostasis both from tapering and reinstatements, and even more so if we’ve ever gone completely off too rapidly in the past. My hope is that the pain will begin lessening as our bodies heal. An increase in dose doesn’t necessarily mean it will help the body pain. Our brain and CNS are still in the process of healing. It’s not uncommon for doctors to call it fibromyalgia, as most will not admit that you were harmed by the drug. 
 

Personally, I can understand your decision to stay on Effexor, at least for now. Taking care of your family and stabilizing has to be a priority. In the future, if you decide to taper again, you are now a lot more educated on how to do it.

 

18 hours ago, Kingson said:

My gut feeling is that my body is recalibrating (so to speak). I think the fact that the medication from pill to pill is not exactly the same (at least that's my understanding) coupled with the possibility of tachyphylaxis is the issue.

I think you have some good insight here. The “recalibrating” or healing process is ongoing, albeit slow. I don’t think the dose variability from pill to pill is what is causing your issues. I think it’s more that your CNS is still very sensitized. I’m not sure if poop-out is what’s happening or if it’s more about you being in a long wave. To me, the fact that you’ve gone a few years now being able to be productive is a very good sign that you are indeed healing. I’d try to hang on to that and give this wave a bit more time to play itself out.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by FindRest