☼ vaibhav: anhedonia, tapering duloxetine and bupropion

[vaibhav]

started with fish oil since 29 july and homeopathy.However now i think , alpha -ts is causing sleepiness more and not helping ...So stopped it..it helped somewhat initially for sound sleep.

For Sleep issues - started melatonin supplement 5mg at night .helping it for deep and early sleep. racing thoughts are problem while sleeping.When I wake  up , the guilt comes strikingly each morning, like why i have stuck here and so on , however, some time and positive thoughts are helping. 

MAJOR iSSUES- emotions and its varioation , SLEEP, guilt , slow progress, anxiety especially after evening, restrain/ FEAR actions.

RESOLVED issues-

1.depression -manageable with fish oil,

2.extreme head pressure like band around head, heaviness in the head nose, eyes. Felt that it never gone go .but it resolved

3.left -right side of brain having unequal control- i had no access to right side of my brain till 15 july and then it started resolving.,

4.neck and back pain -completely resolved, 

5.morning cortisols - too heavy head in the morning resolved.

 

now on fish oil 1000 mg and will try Mg after 1 month for anxiety.

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, vaibhav said:

For Sleep issues - started melatonin supplement 5mg at night .

 

melatonin-for-sleep

 

On 4/7/2011 at 11:26 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Large doses of melatonin do NOT aid sleep -- they might cause your oversensitive brain to wake up, instead. I found when I took more than 2mg of melatonin, I was weepy in the morning. If you get this or a paradoxical reaction (waking) or are dopey in the morning, it's a sign you're taking too much.

 

 

[vaibhav]

@ChessieCat ok.thanx....but i have minimum dosage of 5mg...so i will try with it..i felt good today with 5mg  , some emotions are coming back , but still not completely. if any problem occurs , i will put here...

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata

One more thing , i noticed , is as I started taking melatonin 5mg since last 2 days, and stopped alpha-ts homeopathy, my anxiety is somewhat increasing and my mouth is feeling kind of dry , trying to chew my lips, part of face from ear to neck(lower head ) is like in less control or something  compared to upper part also there is vomitting kinda feeling .....

 

is there way to form less dosage from my 5mg. actually its in liquid form after i cut the tablet  

[vaibhav]

1.https://www.amazon.in/HealthyHey-Nutrition-Absorption-Magnesium-Glycinate/dp/B07H729BCJ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=magnesium+supplement&qid=1600594435&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A34IIKDE0CKQVF&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSzdOOVc4SlRIV1lLJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjE4NTExMVVKS1FLU1RRT1dFNyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTA2OTM1SkdUSVg1QkY5VU1TJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

2.https://www.amazon.in/Naturyz-Strength-supplement-Magnesium-Melatonin/dp/B07YG6H7F6/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=melatonin+supplement&qid=1600594658&s=hpc&sr=1-5

This contains Mg aspartate , melatonin, vit b6, zinc,black pepper

which will be good ? 

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, vaibhav said:

1.https://www.amazon.in/HealthyHey-Nutrition-Absorption-Magnesium-Glycinate/dp/B07H729BCJ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=magnesium+supplement&qid=1600594435&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A34IIKDE0CKQVF&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSzdOOVc4SlRIV1lLJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjE4NTExMVVKS1FLU1RRT1dFNyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTA2OTM1SkdUSVg1QkY5VU1TJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

2.https://www.amazon.in/Naturyz-Strength-supplement-Magnesium-Melatonin/dp/B07YG6H7F6/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=melatonin+supplement&qid=1600594658&s=hpc&sr=1-5

This contains Mg aspartate , melatonin, vit b6, zinc,black pepper

which will be good ? 

 

Vitamin B6 can be activating.  hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex

 

Also be aware that some magnesium products contain calcium.  Calcium cancels out the calming action of magnesium.  They are best taken 2 hours apart.

 

 

[vaibhav]

@ChessieCat @Altostrata

Hi, I just had extreme heaviness in my head building up since 3 pm and till 6.30 pm and it completely blocked me cognitively as well and gave me extreme negative  thinking like i am  never ever going to overcome this  . To relieve that, I cried. It was soothing and helped in relieving anxiety, stress and heavy head..before crying spell , my head is like heaviness around 7-8 and after it is like 1-2. That's huge difference , i can say. So basically, stress is increasing this heaviness rather than anything i guess. so will start magnessium supplement for that. till then will be on alpha -ts as it is giving me some relaxation ...

 

I also want to add that , i had very bad memory now . Not interconnections , no ability to recall tthings. this was never me since all this started. Is this withdrawal related? will my memory , cognition improve with time?

[Altostrata]

18 hours ago, vaibhav said:

is there way to form less dosage from my 5mg. actually its in liquid form after i cut the tablet  

 

Do you mean you make a liquid from it?

 

There are many ways you can take less of it. Take a half a tablet instead of a whole tablet. Take less liquid.

 

Are you still taking agomelatine?

 

I suppose you may have surges of odd symptoms from going off SNRI and bupropion earlier this year. I know these are upsetting. But we can't answer your questions about each symptom. They come and go. They change. That is the nature of withdrawal syndrome and adverse effects from drugs.

 

Please put the pharmacy names of your drugs in your signature, such as venlafaxine. We don't know what Duzono is. Also add the month and year you went on and off each one. Thanks.

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata

1. its liquid inside those capsules of melatonin. yesterday i again took alpha-ts and melatonin ..it helped me sleeping fast and well also and also anxiety reduced . some reported benefits of ALPHA -Ts as per company are   :

 

A drug that lowers tension and stress without side effects

• Contains internationally acknowledged, natural anxiolytic Passiflora

• Normalises physiological functions and reduces anxiety

• Has sedative and calming effect

•Controls depression

• Reduces melancholia.

 

This product contains alcohol. Alcohol content 58% v/v  .

So should i stop taking it as it causing me some drawsiness in the mornings , though it is somewhat helpful to reduce anxiety ...Could that impact my emotion centers.?

2. No , I am COMPLETELY OFF all drugs including agomelatine and Pramipexole (0.25mg) since July and all SSRI and SNRI since march .ago and prami ,They helped me in faster reaching to increasing anticipation .They don't have side-effects or withdrawal that i feel after i stopped them except prami as it was causing too much slowness in thinking and restless legs due to its dopamine content .But now i dont wanna interfere with any chemical in my brain now.too risky i guess.

  Duzono is a SNRI drugs, its Duloxetine  salt. 

please can you tell me which drugs names you are not understanding , so i could put its salt content.?

 

3.yes i understand , symptoms come and go ..but when i have that wave, its too troubling , so i put it here.it helps somewhat. Today feeling some hope and made up my mind that rush is not gone solve anything and I have bear it till it goes away , hope it happens .  i am TOTALLY against any psychiatric drugs now.

 

4.I am also thinking about rTMS . Does anyone benefitted from it for Heavy head, emotional numbness and cognitive ability? 

 

5.I will take supplement -fish oil, Mg though.Can both be taken at a time? As, fish oil helping me overcoming those low moods , depression and Mg  will help me in anxiety might be...So can they be taken together? 

 

[Altostrata]

Duloxetine is the pharmaceutical name, thanks for the clarification and for updating your signature.

 

I don't know what Alpha-Ts is. It might contain melatonin. You'll need to check. I would never believe the claims of benefit from a supplement maker.

 

If your current combination of supplements, etc. is working, I wouldn't worry about it. If you think you are taking too much melatonin, you need to figure out how to take less.

 

7 hours ago, vaibhav said:

symptoms come and go ..but when i have that wave, its too troubling , so i put it here.it helps somewhat. Today feeling some hope and made up my mind that rush is not gone solve anything and I have bear it till it goes away , hope it happens . 

 

You can expect that symptoms will come and go unless you do something to make them worse, such as drink or overexert. Being patient and letting the waves pass is the key to healing.

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata

thanx...sometimes due to cognitive impairment , i cant think clearly or forget what is said earliar ...so it becomes repetative to ask ...

Can you suggest taking Mg and fish oil at the same time for anxiety and other withdrawal symptoms..?

whats your opinion on rTMS?

[Altostrata]

If you can't remember the answers, please read this topic again and the links we give you before you ask questions, so I don't have to repeat answers. I would like to spend my time doing other things, as would the other staff. I hope you understand.

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata

Hi .. really sorry  , i am bothering you very much...I hope all this would not have happened at all...

[vaibhav]

Just came to know about , Cymbalta withdrawal symptoms. i am considering myself somewhat , not altogether lucky that , I am off it without much trouble except brain zaps, and rage . I was on it for almost 3 months . I think , what helped me is , the moderate exercise i was doing while withdrawing in the last month . it could be very dangerous as I read about its withdrawals.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/283-tips-for-tapering-off-cymbalta-duloxetine/?tab=comments#comment-3034

 

I also read about escitalopram  SSRI, i was taking for almost 3 months . It is 2-3 times more stronger than other SSRI and I was put on it at around 20mg per day.It was equivalent to 40-60mg of other SSRI.It put me in severe anhednonia(numbness) condition..

What is currently helping me , trying to  be  in the present situation though future is uncertain and making some pleasure /gratitude list for making connections for happiness.

 

[vaibhav]

Today, as i woke up, felt terrible guilt for my condition..Then slowly through some positive statements made to myself , overcome it in gradual manner. Then i kept practicing some mindfulness - to observe around my self and linking some emotions to things, people around me ..After almost 2 hours of practice...i gain some control over myself and after that felt like I recovered almost 70% for a brief period of time-say 2 hours...

 

then started laptop and  surf the internet as i got bored ...Watched some videos , social media ...but one thing I understood , is that ,  these channels , keep inducing some anxiety , desperation in our self and slowly , lost good feeling  while I have done that... Comedy ,  light moments helping me...

 

I think cognition and emotions are interlinked ...because  I observed that , as I drag , form any emotions without any thoughts behind it ..it is causing more numbness, rage and frustration  ..So focused thinking with an aim to form emotions is helplful . though it is taking a lot of time ... I am feeling hopeful now....

 

PS: Ordered Mg glycinate - 550mg and will start it along with Fish oil and alpha-ts. 

 

https://www.amazon.in/HealthyHey-Nutrition-Absorption-Magnesium-Glycinate/dp/B07H729BCJ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=magnessium&qid=1601124728&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A34IIKDE0CKQVF&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUDZIOUtYTVFYT1Q2JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDcxMjY0MzZKT1IwMDBNV0xFOCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTA3MDkxMVEzTDVJTFA0REFONyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

Fish oil helping me to overcome many symptoms like residual depression,  anticipation, brain fog, 

Mg I will take for making my self more to be in the MOMENT- anxiety , sleep.

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, vaibhav said:

PS: Ordered Mg glycinate - 550mg and will start it along with Fish oil and alpha-ts.

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

  

On 6/28/2014 at 10:00 AM, Altostrata said:

 

1.b. Do not ADD more than one drug or supplement at a time.

When you add more than one thing at a time -- or, worse, throw the kitchen sink into some kind of cocktail -- and you get a bad reaction, you won't have any idea what to do. Should you drop one thing or all of them?
 
This is also true of mixed supplements, supplements that contain more than one ingredient. It's better to try one ingredient at a time to see how you react.

 

 

[vaibhav]

@ChessieCat@Altostrata

I am not adding more than 1 supplement..only adding Mg to already taking fish oil...i started fish oil around 2 month ago ...and it suited me very well...overcome some brain fog, depression symptoms...but still anxiety remains for me.being in the moment I think is the MOST IMP for anhedonia.and anxiety is hurdle in that ...Should i try it along with fish oil  ? or should i stop first fish oil and then take Mg or should not add it ...?

 

drugs .com showing No interaction exist between them ...

but both are causing blood thinning i guess....will that be too much issue?

[Altostrata]

No, blood thinning from fish oil or magnesium is not an issue.

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, vaibhav said:

.Should i try it along with fish oil  ? or should i stop first fish oil and then take Mg or should not add it

 

The "rule" is to only make one change at a time.  So if you increase the fish oil you would not add magnesium as well.  One or the other.

 

Magnesium and omega 3 fish oil are the only supplements which SA recommends.  It okay to take them both at the same time.

[vaibhav]

ok thanx

[vaibhav]

@ChessieCat@Altostrata

UPDATE: 

just tried Magnessium , yesterday , 550mg ,  felt very calm however, my emotional numbness is increasing too much  for 3-4 hours after I consumed it at night ....  Is it because it is anti-anxiety and thus causing more emotional numbness.

 

[Altostrata]

Try less magnesium at a time, it's more effective taken in smaller doses throughout the day.

 

Would it be possible for you to apply common sense to your experiments with supplements, rather than asking questions here about every step you take?

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata @ChessieCat

@FarmGirlWorks

1 .I am now on fish oil, melatonin  only as Mg is not suitable for me as I tried it but it is making me blunt and even somewhat depressive and I don't wanna feel that way...I can accept some mild agitation rather than having feel little depressed and numb.

2. I know , everyone is different, and everyone's journey is different and drugs acts differently on everyone and recovery is unpredictable ......But ,Is it possible or any little HOPE that I will recover from emotional numbness/anhedonia by next May or June (2021 ) , I don't have any other symptom i guess.   ...because My career is hanging in between because of this...My family is getting angered with my condition , and there is no way I can convince them. they are traditional, orthodox mindset type and does not accept things like depression ... 

3. Last sunday , I had exam (4th oct 2020) . it was for whole day and I got too much stressed and got very little sleep lke 4-5 hours only whole day..My head started burning from inside , too much headache was there.this week was kind of ugly for me as eye pain, headache ,heavines in head,  back pain got increased ...But now it is all back to normal....after rest ...

 

[Altostrata]

You need to do the best you can. You probably can do more than you think.

 

Emotional anesthesia itself should not be an impediment to working, but brooding and worrying about it may cause a lot of problems for you.

 

As explained to you repeatedly, we cannot assure you that any symptom will disappear by May or June 2021. It's likely all of them will be less in 6 months, as they very gradually fade if you don't do anything to upset your nervous system.

 

You may wish to work on strengthening your sleep, see Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

[vaibhav]

UPDATE: 

1. improving very very slowly ...brain fog is there and emotions are fluctuating , not very strong...happiness , love, laughter , crying emotions coming back...

2. sleep issues remain ..racing thoughts are major issue for sleep...melatonin not working here ...trying sleep each day at 12 to 1 and getting it by 3:30 to 12 pm..i consider myself lucky that , I can afford the recovery period ....

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @vaibhav. How are you doing? Any more improvement in the last month?

[vaibhav]

HI @Altostrata ,

1.Yes , There has been great  improvements since last I posted on 10th november. Its been almost 3 months and I could feel emotions to the extent..Happiness returning , Brain fog is there but it is reducing each month. I can say that, I am NOT now totally anhedonic . 

 

2.Each 2 -3 months , visible improvement is there since I stopped SSRI and SNRI since march 2020. Its been 10 months and I can say surely Another  6-7 months (by august -sept 2021 ) , i will be Out of this mess completely. (hoping for it.) 

 

3.There are some emotions still elusive like restrain , caution, and Fear. Happiness and curiosity has came back largely (almost 60-70%). yesterday , celebrated my 29th birthday and I have enjoyed it with my family. Happiness and excitement i could felt throughout my body in a dilute form but not for too long.Its elusive but i can gain it back whenever I want.

 

4.I am not visiting here regularly, only when i feel too low and down , so that I can see some success stories and push myself ..Suicidal thoughts are now reduced to large extent and that is very good.

 

5.Sometimes I visit my friends and I start feeling low , because discussion goes towards career and other worldly issues ..That s when I feel very low and feel like crying. So I only visit them only once a month ..So not much social now but improving in that aspect also.

 

Recovery in %.

1. Emotional - 50%

2.Cognitive- 60-65%

3.Overall- 60-70%

 

Thanx a lot for asking...I will update after 4-5 months again.

 

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata 

I have been super excited the other day .but I think , I have some issues and queries :

1.As I can now think somewhat , There is anxiety like feeling coming in. It is better than not feeling anything , but
sometimes it causes trouble.  It makes me feel weak in my whole body , like there is no firmness , strength in my whole body...Cold feet.

 

2. I have query regarding - BACH FLOWER - therapy .As  natural medicines claim to help with apathy, and racing
thoughts. Should I try it ? any experience of anyone ragarding this? attaching screenshots.

 

3.My libido is very high I guess . I constantly imagine myself doing some sexual activity .I have been not like this
before this.But the imagination of situation , make me feel some emotions .BUT , After the activity, I feel like
there is no emotions, and racing thoughts starts coming after that for almost like 1 hour or more.

 

4. I spend too much time on laptop as it keeps me engaging. Will that be a problem.?

[vaibhav]

Hi @Altostrata Its almost a year i am out of this and I have some positives and doubts now .. 

Can you reply to these queries please?

I am improving each 2-3 months i guess. Connections are forming .real challenge is the TIME. I am feeling like emotions are coming But .My brain is feeling like a DRY BRAIN , I don't know how to explain this. but it is like feeling of flowing air inside brain whenever I think positively.I don't know how to explain this clearly.Do you know anything about this in recovery or I am just thinking too microscopically?

 

Please reply. 

[Altostrata]

vaibhav, it's a good sign you're seeing improvement. Most likely, you will see further improvement in the coming months. But you may still have waves of unpleasant symptoms, hopefully not as difficult as before. This is the typical healing pattern.

 

I do not think there is anything unusual going on with your brain. You may wish to get exercise and perhaps pursue a hobby rather than spending so much time on your laptop.

 

Please do stop by and let us know how you're doing.

 

 

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata Hi alto, Its been another 3 months , and I wanted you to know that, progress continues. 

But there are certain areas where I have concern or setbacks :

1. My sleep issue deteriorated since april month , I don't know why , but initiating sleep is a concern . I am sleeping around 3 AM to 4AM after i sleep in bed at 12 . Once started , sleep is of good quality. I am trying melatonin. but it is also not helping much..what to do?

 

2.As my head started some opening up, I can feel there is Depression underlying .how to deal with it . I have taken beck inventory test and also Hamilton depression test  online and found myself on boundary of moderate to severe depression level.

 

3. Emotional  level:  Strange thing happening with me.I can able to  imagine the scenarios or past experiences where I was normal and normal range of emotions.I can imagine it for a shorter period of time though . But I can't feel much except happiness. this is strange as 'happiness' is only feeling  i can feel but not empathy, compassion and love. is there anything to do? or it will improve.?

[Altostrata]

How much melatonin are you taking?

 

What are you doing before going to bed at midnight? If video games, that could be keeping you awake.

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata 

I am taking almost 3 mg ...Is it enough.... 

 I am on laptop mostly..No gaming...only videos or surfing / newspaper etc....

 

can you also reply about point 3 ..on emotional issue. Is it that I am currently in derealization / depersonalization..I dont know what it is?..Does this more serotonin type feeling goes away ?anyone in your experience felt it? 

[Altostrata]

Using electronic media close to your eyes late at night can cause poor sleep.

 

As explained before, taking antidepressants can cause emotional anesthesia and going off them can bring this to the forefront.

[vaibhav]

@Altostrata hi alto, 

1.one more thing I would like to share here is that, I recently read article where it was said that  "FISH OIL MAY CAUSE EMOTIONAL BLUNTING " .

link i am providing here.. i feel scared after this.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Omega-3-Supplementation-and-Emotional-Blunting%3A-A-Rhyner/20ed6b18e809da66b188d23b93c4fde139e5490f

 Whats  your take on this? 

2.I have not taken fish oil for 2 days and felt like my head started to feel HEAVY after discontinuation. What should I do about it?  

[Altostrata]

I think the article is nonsense.