DiscJockey: intro

[DiscJockey]

Hi @AltostrataI sure will let my current Dr. know that. My doctor has decided to just hold where I am at for now. I actually made a mistake increasing 1mg of Prozac a couple days ago, was really scared and wanted to see if the increase would off set my current symptoms. Paid for it terribly the next day, was very activating. So my Dr said to go back down to 8mg and just stay there. The next day felt better. Right now it is just waking up in the morning that is difficult. It feels part like start up effects of the Prozac, and part withdrawal from cutting out the Lexapro completely. So Dr said to just wait and let my body rest because of all the changes we just did.

 

I will recommend the doctor after a few weeks/months, just to make sure. The last time I recommended a doctor on here from Kaiser, I ended up being wrong about that person after a few months. That Dr. was the one who got me stuck on 2 ssris, and started gaslighting me, telling me that my withdrawal was not withdrawal, but my baseline, original symptoms, blah, blah crap. Offered me more meds to take, which I refused. 

[Altostrata]

13 hours ago, DiscJockey said:

So Dr said to just wait and let my body rest because of all the changes we just did.

 

Pretty good advice from Dr. Collins. Wonder if she's seen this site.

[DiscJockey]

So @Altostrata, I am running into trouble with this bridge transition. I have been staying put on the Prozac and Paxil dose. Last week periodically on some times of the day I would get suicidal ideation. It was really scary especially if I am alone and no one is with me. I would just push through it still do my daily meditation, daily journaling, daily walks, and tell myself that this will pass and that I am in a transition/change.

 

Yesterday I was watching a movie at a theatre and withdrawal symptoms really hit me, plus the suicidal ideation was there and a lot more intense than the previous ones. I left the movie in the middle and drove to my parents house to not be alone. I tried to stay and talk myself down, but it was too much for me to handle. 

 

In my head I was trying to figure how and why this is happening. I was thinking this is a combination of protracted wd of dropping the Lexapro and start up effects of the Prozac. Up till now the Prozac seemed to blunt the wds of the Lexapro. But yesterday was all bad. I was so restless, so terrified, heart racing, and add the suicidal ideation as well. I packed a back pack of clothes, medication, just in case I needed to go to the emergency. But then I got even scared of doing that, because of the risk of them prescribing me more medications despite me telling them the current meds I am on is causing me to be suicidal. 

 

So I emailed all my doctors in the wee hours of the night. I was able to fall asleep because I took half a tablet of benadryl. I only slept for about 2 hours and woke up with cortisol surge, fire burning sensation, panic, suicidal ideation. I was pacing back and forth and caved in and took a .5mg tablet of clonazepam. As I was waiting for the clonazepam to take its effect, I am emailing my doctors late at night. Eventually I calmed down and was able to go back to sleep.

 

So Im awaiting for what my doctors respond with.

 

Should I just keep at this dose with the Paxil and Prozac?

Maybe increase the Prozac dose 1mg? 2mg?

 

Or do a complete overhaul/change? Prozac is causing me problems with the start up effects.

It would suck to have to do this and make changes to my nervous system again. My psychiatrist at Kaiser proposed taking Zoloft, since that was the first drug I ever took and did not have problems. They recommend to do a direct switch by eliminating the Prozac Paxil and to start taking 150mg Zoloft. Not sure about this. Scared. 

 

I am awaiting for the doctor I pay out of pocket for to respond. 

 

[Altostrata]

I am sorry you are having these problems. You are correct, the doctor who directed you to switch to Prozac is responsible for dealing with any problems that arise from her plan, not us unpaid peer counselors.

 

As explained multiple times, any change in Prozac dosage will take a couple of weeks to ramp up to full effect. You have a habit of increasing dosage when the going gets tough. You'll have to look at your notes to see if this surge in symptoms matches a ramp-up of Prozac. This information is absent from your signature. 

 

It is possible you are now taking TOO MUCH SSRI, which also has been brought up before. This is a sign of TOO MUCH SSRI:

 

4 hours ago, DiscJockey said:

I was so restless, so terrified, heart racing, and add the suicidal ideation as well.

 

Please understand an idea of suicide is just an idea. You can manage your ideas. Going to the emergency room with "suicidal ideation" will get you a lifetime diagnosis and a hefty new cocktail of drugs. Good luck with that.

[DiscJockey]

Thank you @Altostratafor the feedback. 

 

Should I try to lower the dose of the Prozac and see if it helps? by 1mg? if it is too much SSRI, maybe lowering it would help.

[Altostrata]

On 7/19/2021 at 1:06 PM, Altostrata said:

You'll have to look at your notes to see if this surge in symptoms matches a ramp-up of Prozac.

 

[DiscJockey]

So I am in bad shape right now, and I know its my fault, I could not help it, I was very desperate. Please be kind to me.

 

I was trying to stabilize on the 8mg Prozac and 8mg Paxil, every time I would take the liquid Prozac at the usual time of 11am, I would get horrible symptoms right after, burning sensation, I felt like I was going manic and crazy, plus my mind would race with so many thoughts, plus suicidal ideation. Then I would take my Paxil dose at 1pm, and that would seem to ramp up the symptoms even more. The next morning when I would wake up, I would feel my mind was racing and going out of control. I was trying to just plow through and tough it out, but it was just too much. Before all this though my out of pocket doctor and I were attempting to the Prozac bridge to get rid of the Lexapro and Paxil. We got rid of the Lexapro fairly quickly, we did not want to be stuck on 3 ssris. I would take 1mg Prozac, then wait a few days, then cut the Lexapro by just cutting it with pill cutter and not really weighing it. We eventually got up to 8mg Prozac and still had the 8mg Paxil. 

 

While we were doing this Prozac introduction, I was getting symptoms, but thought that was normal, and so I just keep going and toughing it out, and also cutting the Lexapro. When I was having symptoms I would think it was either the start up effects of Prozac or the decrease in Lexapro, I could never really tell which. Plus I also felt the Lexapro was not effective anymore. I have taken Lexapro in the past twice, on the highest dose, and after a few months of feeling stable would get horrible wd symptoms. So my out of pocket dr and I decided to get rid of the Lexapro first to avoid being on 3 ssris, and it seemed easier to get rid of it was not being effective anymore.

 

Cut to last Sunday, I was watching a movie at the theatre and a wave of symptoms came about. Too much for me to handle so I left the movie and went straight to my parents house. It was physical symptoms and mental. The mental is what got me hard and scared the crap out of me. Thoughts of death, suicide, doom, terror.

 

I have been taking these IOP courses starting this week online with Kaiser, so I told the Psych nurse on call what was going on, and they suggested to stop taking the Prozac and directly switch to 25mg Zoloft. They looked at my chart and saw that I had taken Zoloft in the past, it was my first AD that I took, so they said I should respond well to it. I was trying to relay this to my out of pocket dr, but got no response. When I did get a response, the doctor politely stated that they are not full equipped to handle my situation, they believed what I was going through but never had difficulty tapering a patient off an ssri via Prozac bridge. They said that I must be really sensitive to small and any change, which I agree. But by the time I got this email from the doctor I had already took the plunge and started taking the Zoloft. So they recommended that we do an actual video meet this coming Tuesday.

 

So starting yesterday (Thursday), I stopped the Prozac and in place took the 25mg Zoloft at 11am, then my normal Paxil dose at 1pm. Did not feel any change, was still feeling symptoms of perhaps the overactive Prozac still in my system. That night I did feel a wave of symptoms, and I though maybe it is because I stopped taking the Prozac about 36 hours prior. So I was thinking the half life of the drug, it is already out of my system.

 

This morning I took 25mg Zoloft, then right away symptoms came about, it felt like I was hit by a truck, nauseous, jelly legs feeling, really depersonalized, part manic, mind racing time to time, anxious. I then took the Paxil, but nothing happened, no increase of symptoms. I know this could be start up effects but part of me is saying that this is my fault, my body is in total shock with all these changes in a short period of time which I knew but was so desperate to not feel these symptoms. 

 

So I told the on call psych nurse while I was attending IOP what was happening and they recommended that I skip the Zoloft dose the next morning and take it at night before I go to sleep, in order to minimize the start up effects, and to cut the pill in half and only take 12.5mg.

 

Should I do what the psych nurse recommended? I am basically in this state because of my own doing I know. And now I am in big trouble. Should I go back on the Prozac even there is start up effects? But then again I do not want to go manic or crazy in my mind again. I did notice this morning when I woke up, and this is the day after I stopped the Prozac and started Zoloft, my mind was not running crazy like it usually does, it felt sort of clear and light. But physically felt tired and weak probably because of all the changes.

 

I am just trying to stabilize now and get well, I know this all my fault, I live on my own, and have one to support me going through this. I go to my parents house when they get home in the evenings. But they do not know what to do, I just make sure to pack a bag of my medication and some extra clothes just in case I need to go to the emergency room. There are times I feel like just going to the emergency room and asking if I can just be there to feel safe.

 

So if any moderators can let me know what I should do, I would appreciate it. And sorry again for my wrong doing and complicated situation. I do not know how to get stable from all this, it feels like I just dug myself in a deeper hole, that no med can stabilize me and get me out of from this point. 

 

[Greatful]

@DiscJockey  I am so sorry you are in such a drug mess.  Starting and stopping and  changing is what got me into the mess I am  in.  At some point you will have to just stop and hold.  I know very well the need to find something that will be a quick fix.  Listen to the mods and then do not do any changes unless they recommend it. 

This is hard enough to do with support, I hope your family is stepping up to help.

There is a lot of support here, so post often and find some members that you can lean on.  

My heart goes out to you.  I am glad you reached out😊

 

[DiscJockey]

Thank you @Greatful I appreciate it.

 

[DiscJockey]

So at around 830pm I started feeling more intense symptoms, anxiety, terror, doom, stomach ache, restless legs. I wonder if this is withdrawal from stopping the Prozac. 

 

Should I start the Prozac back up at a lower dose? Like 4mg? Half from where I stopped? Start it back up tomorrow and wait to see if symptoms settle? I think when I got to 8mg Prozac it became too much ssri along with the Paxil to have caused me to feel like I was going crazy and terrified. 

 

Or stop it all together and continue on with Zoloft? If so, take the Zoloft at night like the psych nurse said, and only take half a tablet? So it would be 12.5 tablet. I only started taking the Zoloft yesterday. 

 

Please let me know because tomorrow will be here soon, I usually take my first dose at around 11am. So I want to make sure I go about this the right way and hopefully stabilize.

 

Thank you in advance. 

[DiscJockey]

Hi @Altostrataor any moderators available. This morning I woke and can feel full on withdrawal symptoms, which I think is from the stopping the Prozac on Thursday. 

 

What should I do at this point? Reinstate a low dose of Prozac? In hopes it will stabilize me.

 

Or continue on taking the Zoloft 25mg and waiting it out. I completely dropped the Prozac and started the Zoloft on Thursday. Today (Saturday) I am feeling very unwell which I believe is the because of no Prozac. I started taking Prozac sometime in June adding small 1mg increments then cutting bits of Lexapro. 

 

The psych nurse at Kaiser said I should take the Zoloft in the evening today to hopefully avoid start up effects and that I can possibly sleep through it. 

 

I do not know what to do at this point. My out of pocket Dr wont email me back because I think my situation is too much for them to deal with, Kaiser Drs have me all over the place, a new doctor I finally got a hold of will not be able to consult with me till Aug 17th. 

[Altostrata]

Hello, DiskJockey. You may recall us telling you to stop changing your drugs, and here you are, changing your drugs again.

 

What the heck are you taking now, at what times of day?

 

22 hours ago, DiscJockey said:

I was trying to stabilize on the 8mg Prozac and 8mg Paxil, every time I would take the liquid Prozac at the usual time of 11am, I would get horrible symptoms right after, burning sensation, I felt like I was going manic and crazy, plus my mind would race with so many thoughts, plus suicidal ideation. Then I would take my Paxil dose at 1pm, and that would seem to ramp up the symptoms even more.

 

This indicates to me that the combination of the 2 SSRIs is too serotonergic for you in your present state. The Prozac bridge requires an overlap of the 2 drugs for a short time, perhaps 4 days to a week, for the Prozac to ramp up sufficiently to drop the other SSRI.

 

Because of this, Prozac is perhaps more wisely dosed LOWER as a bridge drug, so as not to ramp up serotonergicity over the 2 weeks it takes for Prozac to take full effect.

 

So feeling you're taking TOO MUCH SSRI could be a predictable result of taking too much Prozac with the first drug (in your case, Paxil) to accomplish the Prozac bridge.

 

I have a feeling this has been explained to you before in this topic.

 

 If I were you, I would have reduced Paxil, maybe by half, not dropped Prozac, and certainly not substituted Zoloft -- that's an utterly stupid idea. Your decisions have been working against the Prozac bridge, but your out-of-pocket psychiatrist should have had you reduce Paxil some time back.

[DiscJockey]

Hey @Altostrata thank you for getting back to me. And need your advice going forward.

 

As of today, I only took 8mg Paxil,

I wanted to wait for your response and recommendation.

I did not take either Zoloft or Prozac toady.

 

Since yesterday and today I am feeling all symptoms of a cold turkey withdrawal, which I contribute to not taking Prozac and attempting to direct switch to Zoloft 25mg. NOT going well.

 

So today I decided not to take it and wait for your advice.

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

  but your out-of-pocket psychiatrist should have had you reduce Paxil some time back.

 

Yes she should have, I know! Once I told her about my symptoms that happened on Sunday, she politely in an email said that she feels that she is not the right person to be treating me and that we should discuss over video appointment. So she said this coming Tuesday would be best to meet. So I was emailing her several times to confirm a time for Tuesday and to ask advice on what should I do (reduce Prozac, reduce Paxil) but I have not gotten any response. I feel like my situation is too much for her to handle, I also feel ghosted, NO RESPONSE what so ever, I even tried calling her direct line at her office, and no answer, and left several messages. Maybe there was an emergency she had to take care of, who knows, but I did not have adequate advice/help when I needed it

 

So when I was in IOP with Kaiser all last week, and the nurse psych recommended a switch to straight Zoloft (after numerous attempts to reach my out of pocket doctor), I was in this panic and alone state that I jumped and decided to do it. I was really lost, all alone, doc was not responding to me, so I was like "why the hell not! screw it!" But now I know that was not a good idea. So today I just held off on both the Prozac and Zoloft.

 

 

So @Altostrata starting today or tomorrow should I just reinstate the Prozac? This will eliminate the current cold turkey withdrawal symptoms that I am feeling I assume? 

And at what dose? I was taking 8mg. Should I reduce it to like 4mg? I have this in liquid.

 

Then keep the Paxil at the usual 8mg? Or cut that? 

 

I am trying to remember what dose of Prozac I got on where I felt somewhat stable, but I cannot know for sure, because while I was adding Prozac, I was also eliminating Lexapro by cutting the pill in quarters. So there is some confusion as to what I was feeling at those times, was it Prozac start up effects? Or Lexapro withdrawals? I am not sure. At the time my doctor was just motivating to keep adding and cutting to avoid being on 3 ssris. When we completely dropped the Lexapro all together I was at around 6mg Prozac. 

 

Thank you again.

 

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd add 5mg Prozac to the 8mg Paxil. You'll have to monitor to see what the addition does over a few days.

 

FYI, if you stopped the Prozac only on Thursday, you still have a good amount of Prozac in you.

[DiscJockey]

15 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

If I were you, I'd add 5mg Prozac to the 8mg Paxil. You'll have to monitor to see what the addition does over a few days.

 

FYI, if you stopped the Prozac only on Thursday, you still have a good amount of Prozac in you.

 

Thank you @Altostrata, I will continue on tomorrow with your suggestion and update here on any symptoms. 

 

I was taking the 2ssris at different times. Lexapro would be at 11am, then the Paxil at 1pm.

 

You recommended this a few months ago and it has helped so that I am not getting too much ssri at once.

 

So for Prozac and Paxil, should we attempt to spread it out even further?

 

I am currently taking the Prozac first around 11am, then around 1pm I take Paxil. This time schedule is only working for me now since I am not working. But what about when I return to work? I usually leave the house at 715am. I could take the liquid Prozac with me, but I work at a correctional facility, and I am trying not to bring it in. The Paxil is easy to bring in since I have it in tablet and I just put it in my pocket. Plus at work there is rarely a space for me to use and be discreet if I want to measure out the liquid Prozac. I would just take the Prozac and 715am before I leave, then the Paxil at a later time? 

 

But for now since I am not at work, should we attempt to move the doses more hours apart to help avoid the intense ssri interaction? Like 6 hours? Or I take Prozac in the morning, then the Paxil in the evening sometime before I go to bed? Im not sure, just making sure the interaction wont hit me as hard. 

 

 

[DiscJockey]

Woke up feeling unwell due to not having taken Prozac the past two days. And one day tried Zoloft switch, which was awful. 

 

Today, I took 5mg Prozac and will take 8mg Paxil later....

 

Im hoping this goes ok.

 

Will keep journaling in here for symptoms. 

[Altostrata]

You're very creative in thinking about how to make drug changes. Changing the schedule is a change.

 

Please just make one change at a time. Thanks,

[DiscJockey]

Hi @Altostrata and SA moderators.

 

My symptoms Sunday 7/25/21

 

11am; took 5mg Prozac

1pm; took 8.82mg Paxil

 

Felt some of the wd symptoms from not taking any Prozac since Thursday lifted a little bit, but not fully.

 

All day though I was just really sick, nauseated, body was sore and felt beat up all over. Lower back pain. Mind was slightly still racing from time to time, fast thoughts, scary thoughts of death and suicide, slight doom.

 

Lower back pain. I have low back pain but have been seeing a physical therapist for it. I have daily stretching and exercises I do with a foam roller, all this helps keep the pain at bay.

But ever since I started this bridge, the back pain is more present even more so yesterday.

 

Went to bed around 11pm. 

[DiscJockey]

@Altostrataand moderators

 

So I went to bed around 11am last night. I woke up around 3am. But when I woke up, I felt wide awake, like I had slept a full 8 hours. Kind of scared, I was also sweating through out the night despite having the windows open and a fan on. I would use the bathroom, drink some water, and try to go back to sleep. I would just toss and turn for about an hour, but then would wake up again in sweat and could not go back to sleep.

 

This morning I feel that Prozac has subsided the withdrawal symptoms, but is also feels that I am over stabilized, if that makes sense. Its like I am hyperaware and feel that my mind and train of thought is going a bit too fast for me. Its part relief that I do not have wd symptoms but part discomfort.

 

Just wanted keep you updated. 

 

I will continue to take the regular doses at regular times, but I am just worried that it will eventually be too much again.

 

Could it possibly be that no matter how low a dose of Prozac I use that it will just be too activating for my body? 

 

Or maybe in a few days try cutting some of the Paxil?

 

I am hoping to see if my out of pocket doctor will respond to my emails and messages today.

 

A new doctor (Dr. Prey) will see me in August still.

 

Thanks again. Let me know what I should do going forward. 

 

[Altostrata]

How do you feel before and after you take each of your drugs?

 

6 hours ago, DiscJockey said:

This morning I feel that Prozac has subsided the withdrawal symptoms, but is also feels that I am over stabilized, if that makes sense. Its like I am hyperaware and feel that my mind and train of thought is going a bit too fast for me. Its part relief that I do not have wd symptoms but part discomfort.

 

Please summarize your drug schedule for the last 2 weeks, including Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft, with their dosages. I can't remember what you've done.

 

Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[DiscJockey]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please summarize your drug schedule for the last 2 weeks, including Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft, with their dosages. I can't remember what you've done.

 

For the past 2 weeks..... this is what I can remember, sorry I did not take notes, was just following my out of pocket dr's guidance. 

 

When I had completely dropped the 18mg Lexapro it was the beginning of July (July 5th). I was at about 6mg Prozac at that time. We started adding 1mg Prozac the end of June, wait a couple days, then cut out some Lexapro. We would email back and forth and kind of see how I was feeling, and also making sure to not get stuck on 3 ssris. So in a way we rushed to get drop the Lexapro. 

 

When we fully got rid of the Lexapro, I told the Doctor that I felt ok and she suggested to try cutting the Paxil. So on July 8th, I cut the Paxil in half. I was taking 8.82mg and had pre shaved my tablets. So I just cut one in half. Within the next day I started getting bad withdrawal symptoms. But at the time I did not know if it was the Lexapro withdrawal, start up from Prozac, or Paxil. So I informed my doctor that I went back up to 8.82 mg of Paxil and suggested to wait. I figure we did a lot changes and that we should slow it down. But also not to slow it down to where I would get adjusted to Prozac and Paxil. 

 

So about 2 weeks I just stayed at 8.82mg Paxil, and we slowly increased the Prozac to 8mg. During those 2 weeks I was getting withdrawals, but was not sure if that was because of the Lexapro drop. My doc instructed that I increase the Prozac if i were getting withdrawal symptoms. I go to 8mg Prozac on 7/15/21.

 

By Sunday 7/18/21, thats when it hit me real hard, I was at a movie theatre. Racing heart, racing mind, very anxious, restless, legs felt weak and jelly like. The mental was the one that scared me the most. It was racing thoughts of death, and suicide. I was trying to talk myself down, but eventually decided to leave and head straight to my parents house so I would not be alone.

 

I was able to get a nap in when I got there, the nap only lasted about 30 minutes. When I woke up it was bad. It was like a my whole body was ready to jump and run, my brain felt like it was being tighten, and my thoughts were racing so fast. My whole body felt hot and tingling. I was able to walk around the living room pacing, drank water, took half a tablet of Benadryl, and eventually calm down and went back to sleep. But the upcoming morning and days the rapid thoughts, and suicidal ideation persisted. Hence why I got on IOP in Kaiser.  

 

Zoloft 25mg..... I only took for 2 days which was Thursday 7/22/21 and Friday 7/23/21. I took it at 11am both days instead of the usual Prozac. On the Thursday that I took it, I did not feel anything, no start up effects, nothing. But on Friday, I felt sick and more anxious than usual after taking it. So I decided to stop taking it and go on here and ask for advice. At the time my out of pocket Dr was not responding to my emails or voicemails. The only advice I was getting was from a psych nurse while I was attending IOP through Kaiser. I told the nurse of what I was feeling, and they recommended a direct switch to Zoloft. I caved in because I was feeling hopeless and had no help. My actual Psychiatrist at Kaiser recommended to do a direct switch to Zoloft and eliminate both Prozac and the Paxil. But that I would have to immediately start taking Zoloft at 50mg to 100mg. 

 

 

[DiscJockey]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How do you feel before and after you take each of your drugs?

 

Today (7/26/21) I took 5mg Prozac at 11am. 

 

At 1130am I was at a park trying to get fresh air and sun then a rush of what seemed like liquid ran up starting at my lower back up my spine an into my brain. It was weird, and my mind and thoughts were racing. Racing thoughts of death and suicide, very scary. My legs also got weak and was very difficult walking back to my vehicle. Once I started feeling these symptoms, I tried to just breath deep and recited "these are only thoughts." I eventually went back home. My lower back pain was very intense as well. 

 

At 1pm, I took Paxil. Nothing came of it, no ramped up symptoms, nothing. 

 

Through out the day I would have these spurts of suicidal ideation and feeling like my brain was thinking too much and too fast. My lower back pain is not severe, but I can feel it more than usual.

 

At 530pm I went for a walk at a local waterfront just to get some light exercise. I only lasted about 20 minutes. While I was walking surges of that liquid was going up my back and spine and I would get these dark thoughts (suicidal and death) again. Went back home and just rested.

 

 

So at this point I am not so sure anymore. My out of pocket Dr finally got back to me and has scheduled a video appt tomorrow. I have a feeling that Dr will eventually relieve them self from being my doctor because of how complicated my situation is. 

 

I feel defeated and lost. I have taken the Prozac for about a month now, which means my body has adapted to it, but now I am getting these horrible effects from taking it. And the effects are mental which is really scaring me at this point. I remember going through terrible Paxil wd last summer, and they were physical, but there were not any mental stuff. 

 

I do also recall the two days I took the Zoloft instead of Prozac, I did not have any suicidal ideation, but started feeling physical symptoms of withdrawal from Prozac.

 

I am even asking Kaiser if they have some type of inpatient treatment center I can go to feel safe and have someone monitor me if they do medication changes again. 

 

I have people/family/friends in my life, but not the support I need.  Just me. 

 

So @Altostratalet me know, should I stop taking the Prozac all together if these symptoms persist? I really do not want these suicidal ideations anymore. But once I stop taking it, I will eventually get physical wds from it. Then would I have to add another SSRI (Zoloft? More Paxil?) to counter those wds.  Sorry I know you are not a doctor and it seems all the doctors I encounter have no clue or my situation is just too complicated for them. Hopefully Dr. Prey can help, but that is not till August.

 

[DiscJockey]

So I just got done with an appointment with my out of pocket dr. She said she is very sorry for the situation I am in. She can still be my treating dr till I find a new one. She will get me doc's note for work to keep stay off all next month and continue on helping with my disability claim. In the beginning she thought the Prozac bridge would help, but she claimed and apologized for being wrong. 

 

She recommended that if I am still having problems adjusting to the 5mg Prozac, that I can just stop taking it all together and just start taking Zoloft instead. But to start the Zoloft at half a tablet and not the full 25mg tablet. This is the best she can do she stated. She helps other people come off ssris with the Prozac bridge, but my case is an odd one for her. So she recommended I look into some acupuncture treatments, our some partial in house treatment Kaiser can do to help me transition on med changes.

 

So @Altostrata let me know your thoughts when you can. Right now I am still taking the Prozac and Paxil and holding. I do not know how much of this mental torture I can take. Part of me wants to just stop taking the Prozac all together. 

 

At 7am this morning I woke up with racing thoughts that included suicidal ideation and other dark things. I could not go back to sleep. I can feel my heart beating at a normal pace but all over my body like its vibrating. My symptoms are mostly mental at this point but they are so extreme and scary. Its like there is rolodex in my brain and it just keeps spinning. It is hard to just lay down and take a nap. 

[Altostrata]

Please be considerate of my time, summarize your drug schedule for the last 2 weeks, including Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft, with their dosages, in a simple list format I can easily follow.

 

I see that after all of our reminders not to make changes in your drugs, you are still seeking ways to make changes in your drugs. This is very frustrating.

[DiscJockey]

33 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I see that after all of our reminders not to make changes in your drugs, you are still seeking ways to make changes in your drugs. This is very frustrating.

No, not trying to make changes, sorry. Please dont be frustrated, just relaying what my doctor said to me today. Thats all. 

[Altostrata]

Would still appreciate that summary of your drug schedule over the last 2 weeks.

[DiscJockey]

Mon 7/12/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head could not go back to sleep, feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Tuesday 7/13/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Wed 7/14/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Thurs 7/15/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Friday 7/16/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Sat 7/17/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body. Mind started to race this all day. 

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Sun 7/18/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

430pm was at the movie, started to feel really anxious, fight or flight. Tingling sensation all over my back, legs, and head. Mind was racing so fast with suicidal, death, dark thoughts. Heart was racing.

Left the movie and went straight to parents house

6pm took a nap for 30mins, woke up terrified, heart racing, felt like my brain was being tighten plus all the racing thoughts. 

Was able to calm down, drank water and took half a tablet of Benadryl.

10pm fell back asleep.

 

Mon 7/19/21

4am woke up to terror, heart pounding, fight or flight feeling, anxiety, felt like I was going manic or crazy. 

Was walking and pacing back and forth in my living room to try to calm down. Was doing breathing techniques.

Went back to bed but could not sleep, because of all the racing thoughts. 

Fell back asleep around 5am.

7am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Tuesday 7/20/21

7am woke up feeling anxious mind racing, body feels overstimulated all over

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation, racing thoughts, suicidal ideation, restless legs, very spaced out.

 

Wed 7/21/21

7am woke up feeling anxious mind racing, body feels overstimulated all over

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation, racing thoughts, suicidal ideation, restless legs, very spaced out.

 

Thurs 7/22/21

7am woke up feeling anxious mind racing, body feels overstimulated all over

11am No Prozac taken, took 25mg Zoloft (no start up effects from Zoloft)

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation, racing thoughts, suicidal ideation, restless legs, very spaced out.

 

Friday 7/23/21

7am woke up feeling a bit clear headed, like no head weight, but physical symptoms of tingling and burning on my legs and back. Suicidal Ideation seemed to be less in the morning and throughout the day. 

11am No Prozac taken, took 25mg Zoloft (felt sick, restless, dizzy after 30minutes of taking it)

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation,  restless legs, very spaced out.

But the racing thoughts seem to be less than the day before.

 

Sat 7/24/21

7am woke up feeling a bit clear headed, like no head weight, but physical symptoms of tingling and burning on my legs and back. Suicidal Ideation seemed to be less in the morning and throughout the day. 

1pm Only took 8.82mg Paxil

Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation,  restless legs, very spaced out.

Mild racing thoughts and suicidal ideation. Symptoms felt typical of withdrawal.

 

Sun 7/25/21

7am woke up feeling a bit clear headed, like no head weight, but physical symptoms of tingling and burning on my legs and back. Suicidal Ideation seemed to be less in the morning and throughout the day. 

11am 5mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

 

Mon 7/26/21

8am woke up feeling like death, racing thoughts again, suicidal ideation, legs felt restless

11am 5mg Prozac

1pm 8.82 Paxil

2pm went to park for fresh air, racing thoughts and suicidal ideation ramped up. Panicked and went home. Can feel some type of liquid racing up my spine to my brain. Felt crazy and manic and terrified

3pm layed in bed, can feel heart beat all over my body, very spaced out, confused.

 

Tues 7/27/21

7am woke up, felt overstimulated, could not go back to sleep. Mind felt tight, mind was racing.

Layed in bed for a few hours just tossing and turning and trying to remain clam. Mind just had thought after thought after thought. Felt like a rolodex in my brain that would not stop turning.

11am 5mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

Spaced out feeling so far for the day, very hazy, still have bad thoughts coming and going. 

[Altostrata]

How did you feel after taking Paxil at 1 p.m. on Monday and Tuesday?

 

Please post 24 hours of notes at a time, showing how you feel before and after each dose, with the time unusual symptoms emerge also indicated.

[DiscJockey]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How did you feel after taking Paxil at 1 p.m. on Monday and Tuesday?

 

I did not feel a thing after taking the Paxil on Monday or Tuesday. No effects all. Only feel symptoms after taking Prozac, which is usually within the next hour.

 

Oh another symptom that I have since Sunday 7/18/21 is no appetite. None at all. I have to force myself to eat. Sometimes I just go to bed without eating dinner. Most times when I try to eat something, I only take a few bites and feel gross. 

[DiscJockey]

Symptom Check 

 

Tuesday 7/27/21

 

7am woke up; feel that my body is very stimulated, over awake, mind feels over awake

Could not go back to sleep, just lay in bed tossing and turning for an hour

 

11am Took Prozac; after 30mins felt slight rush starting at my lower back going up my spine to my brain.

 

1pm too Paxil, no effects or weird sensations.

 

2pm ate food

 

3pm to 5pm depressed feelings, low mood, hopeless, despair, this is forever feeling.

 

UNUSUAL SYMPTOM @10pm; At 10pm I usually wind down and start to feel sleepy. 

I felt this sudden intense rush of sensation fill up my brain/mind. It felt like a water dam broke and it was being flooded. It kind of scared me. So instead of being tired, I was now feeling very awake and hyper alert. I knew once this feeling came over me, that I was not going to fall asleep at my usual bed time. 

 

12AM I went to bed but did not fall asleep, was tossing and turning, my body and mind was very awake, alert.

 

 

 

 

 

[DiscJockey]

Hi @Altostrata, could it possible that even when my body starts adjusting to Prozac at a low dose, that it can still be too much? (See above thread for latest symptoms)

 

I started the 5mg Prozac on Sunday 7/25/21. But it seems that each day I take it, I am getting over stabilized on it. It just scares me to feel these sensations (rapid thinking, intrusive thoughts, body and mind being so awake) on a daily basis. 

 

Do I just keep taking the Prozac and hopefully it subsides? Am I in too deep now that there is no turning back? 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

The reason I have been asking for 24 hours of notes at a time is so I can see the effects of the Prozac and Paxil dosing over a full dosing cycle.

 

I cannot answer your question about Prozac dosing until I have this information. Notes covering 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. or 3 p.m. each day are very far from 24 hours of notes. You have reported this odd symptom at 10 p.m. exactly once. Is this the first time it's happened?

 

Please be aware I want to know the schedule of your drug intake and symptom appearance in the simple list format, at least 24 hours at a time, I've requested so as to make the best use of my time.

[DiscJockey]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You have reported this odd symptom at 10 p.m. exactly once. Is this the first time it's happened?

 Yes @Altostrata, this is the first time that it has happened. Last night. Till now, I am really unwell.

[DiscJockey]

Sorry my memory is really bad right now. I am trying real hard to remember, im having cognitive issues right now.

[DiscJockey]

On 7/27/2021 at 3:03 PM, DiscJockey said:

Mon 7/12/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head could not go back to sleep, feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

Felt slight tingling on my back, restless legs, head feels tight

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

No effects after taking the Paxil

5pm did some light exercise.

6pm to 11pm still feel tingling on upper back.

12am fell asleep went to bed

 

Tuesday 7/13/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

1130am at the park, felt tingling sensation in my head and back, legs felt weak, ignored it, went on about walking.

1pm 8.82mg Paxil Did not feel anything after taking it.

2pm ate food.

3pm took nap

5pm appointment with therapist (no notable symptoms)

6pm to 9pm watch tv ate dinner feeling spaced out, disoriented, was watching a Marvel movie and noticed it made me feel off, dizzy a bit.

11pm went to bed, not trouble falling asleep

 

On 7/27/2021 at 3:03 PM, DiscJockey said:

Wed 7/14/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac feels overstimulated when liquid goes into my body.

1130am body feels hyper and activated. Legs feel weak still. 

1pm 8.82mg Paxil no effects after taking it. 

2pm ate food.

4pm layed in bed, tried to nap. 

6pm to 10pm ate dinner, on laptop listening to music. 

 

Thurs 7/15/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac 

feels overstimulated when liquid goes into my body.

1130am body feels hyper and activated. Legs feel weak still. 

1pm 8.82mg Paxil No effects or symptoms

2pm ate food

5pm did light walk at the waterfront. Can hear and feel my normal heartbeat, real scary. Head tightness.

6pm @home resting watching tv, ate dinner.

7pm to 11pm watched TV, no symptoms noticed at the time

12am was able to fall asleep and go to bed.

 

Friday 7/16/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac Head feels tight, and felt really spacey all day.

12pm called best friend to greet happy birthday. Felt good after knowing we were going to hang out, symptoms seemed to be uplifted.

1pm 8.82mg Paxil no symptoms noticed after taking it

 

Sat 7/17/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body. Mind started to race this all day. 

11am 8mg Prozac feel strong dose, back of my head feels tight and mind feels overstimulated. 

1pm 8.82mg Paxil No effects from taking it

2pm ate food

4pm took afternoon nap

5pm till bedtime felt really spaced out, depersonalized

11pm went to sleep with no sleep issues.

 

Sun 7/18/21

8am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body

11am 8mg Prozac

1pm 8.82mg Paxil

430pm was at the movie, started to feel really anxious, fight or flight. Tingling sensation all over my back, legs, and head. Mind was racing so fast with suicidal, death, dark thoughts. Heart was racing.

Left the movie and went straight to parents house

6pm took a nap for 30mins, woke up terrified, heart racing, felt like my brain was being tighten plus all the racing thoughts. 

Was able to calm down, drank water and took half a tablet of Benadryl.

10pm fell back asleep.

 

Mon 7/19/21

4am woke up to terror, heart pounding, fight or flight feeling, anxiety, felt like I was going manic or crazy. 

Was walking and pacing back and forth in my living room to try to calm down. Was doing breathing techniques.

Went back to bed but could not sleep, because of all the racing thoughts. 

Fell back asleep around 5am.

7am woke up feeling caffeinated, tightness on my head, could not go back to sleep feel overstimulated all over my body.

11am 8mg Prozac

12pm felt very sick, nauseated, could not think straight, felt like in a haze all the time

1pm 8.82mg Paxil no symptoms, just symptoms from the Prozac.

2pm ate food

5pm tried to go for a walk but felt too sick and depressed, legs felt weak, only lasted for about 15 minutes. 

6pm to bedtime felt very sick, nauseated, could not think straight, felt like in a haze all the time, racing thoughts, suicidal ideation. 

11pm went to bed, tossing and turning, took about 2 hours to fall asleep because I felt sick and anxious with racing thoughts. 

 

Tuesday 7/20/21

7am woke up feeling anxious mind racing, body feels overstimulated all over

11am 8mg Prozac

1130am muscles seemed to get sore, legs felt weak, breathing heavily when walking

1pm 8.82mg Paxil no symptoms, just symptoms from the Prozac.

1pm to Bedtime, symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation, racing thoughts, suicidal ideation, restless legs, very spaced out.

 

Wed 7/21/21

7am woke up feeling anxious mind racing, body feels overstimulated all over

11am 8mg Prozac

12pm body feels heavy all over, mind feels very awake and way too active. Like caffeinated. 

1pm 8.82mg Paxil no effects or symptoms. 

2pm ate food

All day symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation, racing thoughts, suicidal ideation, restless legs, very spaced out.

2pm ate food

5pm ate food

6pm to 10pm watched tv then went to bed with no issues falling asleep

 

Thurs 7/22/21

7am woke up feeling anxious mind racing, body feels overstimulated all over

11am No Prozac taken, took 25mg Zoloft (no start up effects from Zoloft)

1pm 8.82mg Paxil nothing felt

All Day Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation on back and arms, racing thoughts, suicidal ideation, restless legs, very spaced out.

2pm ate food

5pm ate food

6pm to 10pm watched tv then went to bed with no issues falling asleep

 

Friday 7/23/21

7am woke up feeling a bit clear headed, like no head weight, but physical symptoms of tingling and burning on my legs and back. Suicidal Ideation seemed to be less in the morning and throughout the day. 

11am No Prozac taken, took 25mg Zoloft (felt sick, restless, dizzy after 30minutes of taking it)

1pm 8.82mg Paxil No effects after taking it

2pm ate food

5pm ate food

6pm to 10pm watched tv then went to bed with no issues falling asleep

Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation,  restless legs, very spaced out.

***But the racing thoughts seem to be less than the day before***

 

Sat 7/24/21

7am woke up feeling a bit clear headed, like no head weight, but physical symptoms of tingling and burning on my legs and back. Suicidal Ideation seemed to be less in the morning and throughout the day. 

1pm Only took 8.82mg Paxil

Symptoms throughout the day include, tingling sensation,  restless legs, very spaced out.

Mild racing thoughts and suicidal ideation. Symptoms felt typical of withdrawal.

2pm ate food

5pm ate food

6pm to 10pm watched tv then went to bed with no issues falling asleep

 

On 7/27/2021 at 3:03 PM, DiscJockey said:

Sun 7/25/21

7am woke up feeling a bit clear headed, like no head weight, but physical symptoms of tingling and burning on my legs and back. Suicidal Ideation seemed to be less in the morning and throughout the day. 

11am 5mg Prozac no start up effects, have not taken Prozac the past 2 days

1pm 8.82mg Paxil nothing felt

2pm ate food

5pm ate food

6pm to 10pm watched tv then went to bed with no issues falling asleep

 

Mon 7/26/21

8am woke up feeling like death, racing thoughts again, suicidal ideation, legs felt restless

11am 5mg Prozac 

1130am felt real sick, disoriented, spaced out. Body was hyperaware and awake. Felt I was going crazy and out of my mind. 

1pm 8.82 Paxil no effects

2pm went to park for fresh air, racing thoughts and suicidal ideation ramped up. Panicked and went home. Can feel some type of liquid racing up my spine to my brain. Felt crazy and manic and terrified

3pm layed in bed, can feel heart beat all over my body, very spaced out, confused.

5pm ate

6pm to 10pm watched tv then went to bed with no issues falling asleep

 

Tuesday 7/27/21

 

7am woke up; feel that my body is very stimulated, over awake, mind feels over awake

Could not go back to sleep, just lay in bed tossing and turning for an hour

 

11am Took Prozac; after 30mins felt slight rush starting at my lower back going up my spine to my brain.

 

1pm too Paxil, no effects or weird sensations.

 

2pm ate food

 

3pm to 5pm depressed feelings, low mood, hopeless, despair, this is forever feeling.

 

UNUSUAL SYMPTOM @10pm; At 10pm I usually wind down and start to feel sleepy. 

I felt this sudden intense rush of sensation fill up my brain/mind. It felt like a water dam broke and it was being flooded. It kind of scared me. So instead of being tired, I was now feeling very awake and hyper alert. I knew once this feeling came over me, that I was not going to fall asleep at my usual bed time. 

 

12AM I went to bed but did not fall asleep, was tossing and turning, my body and mind was very awake, alert.

 

 Here you go @Altostrata, its the best to my knoweldge, i updated in Bold letters, let me know if you need anyting else. Going to try to rest. Let me know what you think, I really am afraid to take anymore Prozac, I hope I do not have to take it, I am so ill right now

[Altostrata]

It seems clear that you're taking too much serotonergic, but it could be either Prozac or Paxil. You could also be getting withdrawal from dropping Lexapro sometime in June, but you didn't post during that period, until mid-July, when you said Prozac compensated somewhat.

 

On 7/13/2021 at 7:53 PM, DiscJockey said:

So now I am just stabilizing after completely dropping the Lexapro, then we will start on the Paxil next. We are doing the whole add 1mg of liquid Prozac, wait a few days to see how I feel, then make a 1mg to 2mg cut. 

 

On 7/23/2021 at 2:39 PM, DiscJockey said:

I was trying to stabilize on the 8mg Prozac and 8mg Paxil, every time I would take the liquid Prozac at the usual time of 11am, I would get horrible symptoms right after, burning sensation, I felt like I was going manic and crazy, plus my mind would race with so many thoughts, plus suicidal ideation. Then I would take my Paxil dose at 1pm, and that would seem to ramp up the symptoms even more.

 

It seems on July 13, you were taking 1mg Prozac with Paxil. On July 15, you mentioned reducing to 8mg Prozac. You must have been increased from 1mg Prozac to more than 8mg over those 2 days.On July 23, you were taking 8mg Prozac with Paxil.

 

As mentioned earlier, Prozac takes about 2 weeks (or more) to have full effect. You may just now be feeling the increases you made in mid-July. 

 

It appears that skipping the Prozac dose on July 22, 23, & 24 temporarily lowered your Prozac blood level to a more tolerable level BUT 

On 7/26/2021 at 8:43 AM, DiscJockey said:

Felt some of the wd symptoms from not taking any Prozac since Thursday lifted a little bit, but not fully.

 

Prozac reaches peak plasma in 6-8 hours, Paxil in 4-6 hours. This means the surge you feel at 10 could be from either drug, or Paxil reaching peak plasma on top of Prozac at the same time.

 

This might be the time that a doctor would tell you to drop Paxil, which would lower the level of serotonergic more quickly than decreasing Prozac. But I don't know what that would do -- doctors are more devil-may-care about these things.

 

Your goal is to get off Paxil. Lowering the Paxil would reduce the total amount of serotonergic. Are you willing to try a reduction of Paxil to 8mg?