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Ngf77: Adverse reaction, Tampering of mirtazipine advice of 7 weeks of use

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Ngf77
Posted (edited)

Hi Everyone .

New member here and in need of advice if possible .

I've been taking mirtazipine for just over 7 weeks for sleep issues which caused me anxiety.

My doctor subscribed me sertaline which only after 3 dosed send me to extreme anxiety and took my anxiety from 3 too 100 .

When back to my GP and he subscribed me mirtazipine 15mg ...I was on it for 4 weeks and although it helped a little with sleep ...didn't knocked me out all night like most and as I didn't feel any improvement as was feeling very groggy , brain fog etc...my GP advised to increase to 30mg which I've been on just over 3 weeks .

I definitely don't think it's helping at all and I'm feeling pretty the side effects and half of the time I feel like a zombie ...sorry for the long post but my question would be how should I tamper of this medication as I was to get out of this medication. Do I need to tamper slowly even if I only took this medication for 7 weeks ?

I would realy realy appreciate and information regarding this matter as I'm new antidepressants.

Many thanks in advance 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
moved to introductions from S and S care, added name to title

7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Ngf77
Posted (edited)

Hi everyone .

I've been on mirtazipine for 7 weeks

4 on 15mg and 3 on 30mg. For sleeping problems which then gave anxiety.

so I was subscribed for to treat both.
Unfortunately have had enough of this medication.
I feel like a Zombie ... detached from things around can't barely have a normal conversation, always tired ..unlike many I don't sleep well or have out any weight and sick of this feeling and I know it's all down to this drug. It's horrible !! 
I realy want to stop this medication and wondering if anyone know how I should tamper to come off it just after 7 weeks
I know I haven't been long term but long enough as it has taken over my life .
If anyone could please advise me how I should tamper to come off them .or anyone that had similar situation 
My GP said to take 3 days of 15mg and then to stop ... I'm not sure if that's not too quick as I don't fancy nasty whildrawl symptoms which I'm sure I'll get some .

I see people jumping from 15 to 30 and 45.

can I change back to 15mg and then do a much slower tamper from 15mg?
Many many thanks and any possible advice would be realy much appreciated.

regards to all 

Edited by manymoretodays
merged to main Introduction

7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Gridley

Welcome to SA, Ngf77.

 

According to the medical literature, anyone that's been taking an antidepressant for more than a month is at risk for withdrawal symptoms. For that reason, we would recommend that you taper off the 30mg mirtazapine no faster than 10% of current dose every four weeks.  Please read this link to understand why this is our advice:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

It is an unfortunate circumstance, and one that many of our members are experiencing, that their tapers take longer than the time they were on the drug.

 

This link is specifically about tapering mirtazapine, including how to get the non-standard doses you'll need for a 10% taper.

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

I see you just posted another Introduction topic. Only one Introduction topic per member.  Please respond here and not in your most recent post.  To address the new questions you raised in your post of this morning:

1.  Doctors know nothing about safe tapering or withdrawal.  Your doctor's advice is very bad and could put you into very unpleasant withdrawal for a long time.

2. I wouldn't recommend dropping to 15mg from 30mg and tapering from there.  Your brain has gotten accustomed to the 30mg dose and dropping by 50% to 15mg is too much and could be very destabilizing and throw you into withdrawal.  It could take a long time to recover from this kind of destabilization. 

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Again, I know it doesn't seem fair to have to taper for so long after a relatively sort time on the drug--and it isn't fair, but it's the reality we have to deal with. Your brain has become dependent on the mirtazapine.   These drugs are very powerful and they change the brain.  It takes a slow taper to undo those changes.

 

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 
When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 
 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Ngf77
Posted (edited)

Hi there, 

Many thanks for you reply it's so much appreciated.

I've only been on 30mg for 3 weeks and 7 weeks altogether that's why I was wondering if I could tamper faster as this medication is doing me no good.

Sorry for the same question but since I've been on 30mg for 3 weeks the 10 per cent every for weeks still apply.

Also I took 22.5 last night should I increase again ?

Sorry I'm new to antidepressants and need to educate myself fast and I now know this is serious stuff.

Many thanks again and will really appreciate you reply .

Kind Regards

 

 

Edited by Ngf77
Added information

7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Gridley
8 minutes ago, Ngf77 said:

I've only been on 30mg for 3 weeks and 7 weeks altogether that's why I was wondering if I could tamper faster as this medication is doing me no good.

All I can say is what I said before: you've been on the drug long enough to create dependency and my previous recommendation of a 10% taper remains the same.  Unfortunately, the fact that the drug is not doing you any good isn't relevant to your need to taper slowly.  

 

Yes, go back up to 30mg.  Hold there for a few days then you can begin your 10% taper.  Your next dose would be 10% of 30mg, 3mg.  30mg minus 3mg = 27mg. Hold for 4 weeks, then reduce by 10% of 27mg.


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Ngf77

Hi and many thanks again.

Have you got any advise on how to cut by 10 per cent my tablets are in 15mg strength.

Have you got any advise on how I can calculate that? 

Sorry but any advise again would be much appreciated 

Regards 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Gridley
21 minutes ago, Ngf77 said:

Have you got any advise on how to cut by 10 per cent my tablets are in 15mg strength.

 

Probably the easiest way would be to use a digital scale.  That's what I do.


 Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

Many members use the smart weigh digital jewelry scale GEM20 available on Amazon.  It's not expensive.

 

The GEMINI-20 Scale

 

When you get your scale, you weigh one 15mg tablet.  I don't know how much your tablets weigh, but let's say, for example that one weighs 150mg.  The tablets weigh much more than the 15mg of what we call active ingredient because most of the tablet is filler.  Crush the pill between two spoons to a fine powder and put all the 150mg pill weight powder on the scale  

 

To get to a dose of 27mg, you would take 1 regular 15mg tablet.  You would want to reduce another l5mg tablet by 3mg active ingredient.  That would be 3/15 of the pill weight.  Using our example of the pill weighing 150mg, to get 3/15, you would figure 3 divided by 15 = .2 X 150 = 30.  You would take off 30mg pill weight powder from the scale and save it in a pill bottle to use later.  Now you have on the scale what amounts to 12mg active ingredient.  Put that powder in a size 00 gelatin capsule and along with your  regular 15mg tablet and you have your 27mg dose.

 

This is an exact method.  It seems complicated but once you've done it a few times it is not hard.  

 

Another simpler but less accurate way to do it is to cut pills.  You could cut your 15mg tablet into 5 more or less equal parts, remove one part (and save for later) and your would have 12mg plus your regular 15mg pill = 27mg.

 

If you could get some 7.5mg tablets that would be helpful in cutting.  That way you could cut 7.5 in half, giving you 3.75, a little more than the 3mg we want but likely close enough.

 

Or your could have your doses compounded at a compounding pharmacy.  That of course is the easiest way but more expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Ngf77

Hi again .

Apologies I've just seen this message I took 22.5 last night again , which makes 2 nights in a row .

Can you please tell me should I take 30mg tonight and for a few days and then start tampering 10 per cent every 4 weeks ...many thanks and again your reply will be much appreciated 👍


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Gridley
30 minutes ago, Ngf77 said:

should I take 30mg tonight and for a few days and then start tampering 10 per cent every 4 weeks

That's what I'd recommend.


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Ngf77

Hi Gridley,

Many thanks for your advice last Month.

It's been ups and downs for me from my last post .

Slight down at the moment as not sleeping well at the moment .

From my last month I'm on 26.25mg which is roughly 1 tablet of 15mg and 3 quarters .

Is I'm concerned that that's not 100 percent accurate every intake I'm looking at using scales like you last advice.

How would I get about weighting 10 per cent of 26.25? 

I know I would end up with a dose of 23.625 but that seems realy hard to work out in a scale?

Little confusing for me at the moment .

You advice and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance for you help.

 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Erell

Hello Ngf, 

 

I'm not good at math, so not able to help you with weighting. 

But could you please fill your signature ? This would really help the team!

 

Take care ❤️

 


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :

7mg Fluoxetine + toothpick Paroxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

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brassmonkey

Hi Ngf-- getting started using scales in the middle of a taper can be pretty confusing at first, but it's pretty straight forward. The confusing part is that there are two different weights that have to be managed and they are both measured in milligrams. The weight that you mention above, 26.25 is the strength of your dose.  To help differentiate it from the actual weight of the dose we refer to it a 26.25 mgai (Milligrams Active Ingredient). The actual weight of the dose that you measure on the scales is referred to as mgpw (Milligrams Pill Weight).

 

The mgpw is going to be much more than the mgai because the manufacturers use fillers to make the pills bigger so they are easier to make and for people to handle.

 

To figure out what the scale weight of your dose is (mgpw) you could weigh several doses the way you've been making them and calculate the average, or we can start with the average weight of a whole tablet and the listed strength from the package and work it out from there. 

 

Either way there is going to be a small difference between what you think you are taking and what you are actually taking.  This difference doesn't really matter, but there may be some changes in symptoms as we try to get things more accurate.

 

If you could give me the following information I will help with the calculations:

 

Average weight of a dose the way you make it when you take 26.25mg.

 

The average weight of  a whole pill.

 

The strength of a whole pill as listed on the package.

 

Once we do the calculations it will be really easy to determine any dose you want and weight it on the scale.


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Ngf77
Posted (edited)

Titled:  Please Help

 

Hi all, 

Firstly what a site this is and what a shame the medical industry is regarding medication.

I'm writing this heartbroken and in such sadness.

I have posted a few posts here in the past has I've been looking for answers in trying to understand of what have been going on .

I have been on mirtazapine for 3 months since January 15th 2020 for insomnia/ anxiety.

I was put on 15mg for 4 weeks and as I wasn't feeling good, my doctor advised me to go up to 30mg which I did for 4 weeks .

Never got to feel any better and ever since and only been sleeping around 5 hours per night .

Since I've been on this medication I've changed so much in a period of 3 months my cognitive thinking is really bad  ...tired all the time ...buzzing ears ... depressed ...never been depressed in my life prior to this, irritable, don't enjoy doing anything, I literally haven't laughed since my first dose !!!

I don't seem to be able to cry either which is a pain too.

I've decided to tamper as I knew this meditation was really causing damage to me, II couldn't tell why but just didn't felt right.

I tampered down to 22.50 in one drop ...felt really bad wildrawl symptoms ... Panics overwhelming anxiety and after 4 to 5 days I upped to 26.25mg .

Been on dosage for further 4 weeks ..

Since I've upped from 15 mg to 30mg I knew I wasn't right but couldn't work out what was happening but I was very restless with high anxiety and have really dark thoughts .

I did had the odd that or ever a week where I felt that I was starting to feel better.

Because of that I feltaybe this medication takes time to work.( I'm new to antidepressants) and I think I've been micromanaging my feeling and symptoms.

I had a constant urge to research my symptoms, feelings and trying to workout why I felt the was I do. 

After so much research and only last Friday I realized that I'm suffering from akathesia! not pacing or much urge to move but this inner restless and hopelessness feeling which has got worse since I've discovered that I have it and I'm petrified!!!

I went to the doctors  on the 17 th just passed and asked to see another doctor as I lost faith on my GP  and explained my findings.

I don't really think he knew the severity of this condition and thinks it's just like normal anxiety.

he firstly told me to drop to 15mg in one go which I said I would not to that as I'm suffering really bad as it is and am worried for my safety.

So he said just drop 3.75 every week until I reach 15mg and then stebalise there  and see how I feel.

I tampered from 26.25 to 22.50 on the 17th which makes it 4 days ago.

I'm not planning on going on his instructions and I am concerned for my mental state and also my wellbeing.

So I know I need to tamper safely as I'm already all over the place as it is .

I end up calling the mental health team yesterday they never accepted my referral from my GP and that said I don't meet their criteria and in a panic and went to A&e as I was feeling overwhelmed.

I actually work at the hospital.

I'm really scared as Akathesia is a rentless inner turmoil and worries me if it gets to a point that I can't handle.

I'm not suicidal and never been ever but worries me this feelings and dark thoughts and if I get worse and not being able to cope.

I'm just really scared right now!!

My question is how do I tamper from this medication if this medication is giving me this horrible condition .

I feel against the wall and trapped on a situation that it's not any less of worse worse nightmare.

I have a partner of nearly 20 years that is very concerned for me as in 3 months my personality my everything has gone down hill dramatically like black and white ( I still haven't got the courage to tell her that I have akathesia ) as she will be even more concerned.

I also have a beautiful 5 year old daughter that I love more than anything .

I'm so scared as this feelings are really scary and dark!

I'm really looking for advice and support on how to handle my situation and make sure I can do the best thing moving forward.

I'm really scared for my life at the moment as I've read horror stories about this condition which I didn't even knew existed untill 5 days ago.

Never on a million years I would think I will be like this .

So please any advise and support would be really appreciated and I'm struggling at the moment .

Many thanks in advance 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
added titled, merged from tapering to introduction

7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

Hi Ngf77,  @Ngf77

 

11 hours ago, Ngf77 said:

So he said just drop 3.75 every week until I reach 15mg and then stebalise there  and see how I feel.

I tampered from 26.25 to 22.50 on the 17th which makes it 4 days ago.

 

11 hours ago, Ngf77 said:

My question is how do I tamper from this medication if this medication is giving me this horrible condition .

I feel against the wall and trapped on a situation that it's not any less of worse worse nightmare.

 

And welcome aboard. 

Can you do a signature for us?
Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

just go to that link ^, and it is explained nicely

 

Yes, we can help you with math too.  Happy to.  B)🤗

 

It sounds like you might have been started on the mirtazapine after an adverse reaction to the sertraline.  Why were you started on the sertraline?

 

And it sounds just awful Ngf77 right now.  How are you doing today?

 

And we can help you set up a tapering plan.  Try and post right here, with your questions and concerns around your circumstance.

 

Many of us have had to learn and practice lot's of non-drug coping to get through.  Here's some good stuff around anxiety, that might help now:

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

 
Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)
 
On 4/27/2017 at 12:03 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

And oh, so unfortunate, when the treatment or medication is worse than what it was given for.  Referring to the sertraline.   

How are you doing?  You don't have to necessarily relate to all that you are reading........as far as symptoms go and such I mean.........it's possible that one case is not exactly like another.  I hope that makes sense.

 

And oh best ngf77.  This is your introduction page.  You've introduced yourself to the community here, and then again, an excellent and the best spot for you to post more specifically, around your situation.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Just adding in another Claire Weekes, on you tube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIE7nWHd-CE

Don't get too wrapped up in the labels and condition labels......try and focus on that you CAN get through this and heal

.....when that one finishes......it goes to another on fear of the fear itself that was nice.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jryCoo0BrRk  many of us in the same boat, or have been Ngf77, you should find a lot of support here 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
added an @ for member

Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

Hi there Ngf77, @Ngf77

If you scroll up in your Introduction here, you'll see the link to using digital scales too.  And then just ask away, right here.  You can add an @ before another members name, or a moderator too.  Once you use the @ symbol, and start typing in a name, you'll see a list of names, then just click/tick on who you'd like to notify.  Then we'll see it when we come on.

I sometimes, have to add the @ notifications at the end of my postings, otherwise I can't post after the notification is done.  It can be a little tricky sometimes.

 

Oh, and best, sounds pretty tough right now.  Again, happy to help however we can.

 

What are you on right now, your dosage of mirtazapine?  And since what date?

Edited by manymoretodays

Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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Ngf77

Hi there again many more days.

Just updated my signature with my meds history. 

You guys really are amazing for all your help and input in helping many people in need.

I was subscribed sertaline for anxiety which was causing issues with sleep.

Pretty bad reaction and stopped only after 3 doses.

As per my signature I've been on Mirtazapine for 3 months now on 15mg for 4 weeks then 30mg for another 4 weeks then around 3/4 weeks on 26,25mg and just tampered to 22.50mg on the 16th April just like 4)5 days ago . 

I'm so gutted I ever started as it has changed me so much which is so scary.

I've developed akathesia on this and that alone is really really scary.

I spoke with my GP to see if I can get the Mirtazapine in liquid form which I think it would be better for tampering .

It's hard when you know that the medication you taking is making you worse but you can't stop.

I was doing a lot of research and I knew that something was really wrong and was trying to.make some understanding of the situation.

I've lost a lot of faith on GPs when it comes to this sort of medication they really don't understand.

The last GP I saw he said that he took AD on the past but still advised me to drop to 15mg from 26.25!

Which I said no way as that could be enough to send me full scale down hill.

I'm trying to accept me situation and adjust to this in order to make sure I can overcome this.

As frightening admit is!!!

I was never depressed in my life and never in a million years thought that I would be feeling this way but I suppose that this goes to everyone that finds themselves in these situations where life is literally in the line.

I am a strong person and have a partner of 20 and a daughter of 5 that I love more than anything.

I'm currently on 22.50 as from the 16th April and would appreciate some advise  tampering also I was told that vitamine B6 may be good for my situation.

Again and as always many thanks for you help and support and please ask me any questions if you would require any information in order to help.

Hope you keeping well and hope to hear soon .

 

 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Ngf77

Hi and many thanks for your links and I will for sure check them all out.

I have another question and would like advice please.

Has Mirtazapine has gave me akathesia which I'm really struggling with, I really need to come out of this medication has it's the cause and while I'm on it I think I won't be getting any better.

So my question is does the 10 per cent still applies and also have you came across anyone that developed akathesia and got cured while of the medication that caused it in the first place .

Many thanks again and I'm just trying to work out exactly where I stand .

Sorry about this questions all the time but I'm really in need at the moment so I can prepare myself.

Also I've been taking 20mg of propranolol 3 times a day for the last 5 days and for the last 2 days I'm feeling very heavy legs and arms and I'm not sure if it is the propranolol or the akathesia, just soo confused at the moment 

Kind regards 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Ngf77
Posted (edited)

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advise please.

I have posted in here a few times times .

I have been taking Mirtazapine for just over 3 months

After upping a dose of Mirtazapine from 15mg to 30mg after only 4 weeks it gave me what I know now akathesia.

After nearly 4 weeks on 30mg I tampered down to 22.5mg the WD was hard or maybe increased the akathesia symptoms.

So I quicky increased to 26.25mg which is 1 pill of 15mg and three quarters.

Since I realized that what I was feeling was akathesia really petrified me and I'm determined to come of this inducing medication.

I went to the doctors and explained he asked me to drop to 15mg which I refused and we agreed to cut down one quarter. (3.75mg) 

Called the mental health and managed to get an appointment 

Went to see the psychology consultant a week later and she told me to drop the dosage by another quarter another (3.75mg)

Although I'm do scared that they are rushing the tamper ...I desperately need their support so I did as advised and dropped another quarter of a tablet.

Which is  a drop 7.5mg in 2 weeks from the 26.25.

My akathesia is through the roof sometimes to almost unbearable levels .

I have been taking propranolol which helps a little bit and have diazepm which I was subscribed by the consultant and only take 1mg if I'm really desperate.

I really really would appreciate any advise regarding the best was to tamper a adverse reaction medication.

Does the 10 percent still applies to this situations? I'm sure it probably does ???

I'm suffering a lot and really scared of making things worse for me.

But at the same time I have pressure from them and my partner to tamper as advised.

With all the experience with all the members that you gathered I'm wondering what is your view or any advise on this matter ???

I worry that I'm being wrongly advised .

I'm currently on my second day of 18.75mg, one tablet of 15mg and a quarter.

I really would just appreciate any advise please .

Pretty desperate and need to make sure I'm doing the right thing and not make things any harder that they are already.

Many thanks and really hope to hear back soon if possible

Thank you 

 

 

 

Edited by Ngf77
To update

7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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manymoretodays

Hi Ngf77, @Ngf77

Okay, so the 22.50 mg dose of mirtazapine since 16th of April.

And then another drop to 18.75 mg on the 23rd of April?

 

On 4/25/2020 at 12:01 AM, Ngf77 said:

I have been taking propranolol which helps a little bit and have diazepm which I was subscribed by the consultant and only take 1mg if I'm really desperate.

Can you describe your akathisia a bit more? 

 

And try this for us, Ngf77:

Keeping daily notes......

 

Here is a sample:

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

Get the time on the left.  And then drugs, all of them, include the diazepam and propanolol too, and any supplements would go on the right.  Name of drug and dose. 

Also note the time on the left and then symptoms as they occur throughout the day.  Describe the akathisia or any other symptoms.

 

Are you sleeping?

 

Sounds so tough Ngf77.  I'm so sorry.  And I missed your last post, I've been out for a bit.  Glad I found it.

Some non-drug helps:

Weighted blankets come to mind and might help with some of the blasted internal restlessness.

Sometimes an Epsom salt bath helps too. 

Or another form of Magnesium.

 

Weighted blankets and bed tents for restlessness, akathisia, insomnia, and anxiety

 

( Akathisia vs restlessness, anxiety, agitation )

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

There is more about magnesium ^.  Taken by mouth it can be calming and even relaxing.  Most of the pertinent information, is in the first post, or those after, if you do decide to try.  Start low and take it with plenty of water, or dissolve it in a water container that you can then sip throughout the day.

 

Epsom salts are Magnesium Sulfate.  Fairly cheap, and for use in the bath.  I use less than the label recommends and find it extremely calming.

 

It does get better Ngf77.  And I'll ask the others to take a look at your introduction now too. 

You said the akathisia got worse with the 30 mg dose of mirtazapine or is that when it started?

 

Oh.... best Ngf. 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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Ngf77

Hi many more days.

Many thanks for getting back to me really means a lot .

So regarding the tamper I've tampered a quarter of a tablet on the 16th from 26.25mg down to 22.50mg a week later on the 23rd I dropped another 3.5mg down to 18.5mg advised by the psychiatrist consultant, she rung me on Monday and advised me to drop another 3.5 mg to get to 15mg which is down to one tablet.

She does accept I'm suffering from akathesia thank God I done research and figure out what I was suffering and wasn't misdiagnosed which could have made things much worse for me.

The mental health team have been supportive and been keeping check on me and said I have been unfortunate has this is very rare with this medication and for how short period I have been on and that I need to come off the medication.

I'm not really sure if they realise how bad this condition is and the affects of dosage change but she did say that she won't add any other medication to complicate things which I'm glad that she realises that.

I'm not 100 percent sure if I've developed akathesia when I increased the dose from 15mg to 30mg or when I dropped from 30 to 22.50mg but I'm pretty sure that was on the increase from 15mg to 30mg hence why I now can see why I was always looking to come off this medication and seeking help with you guys as per all my previous posts and started having dark thoughts, now I know was because I didn't understand the feelings that I was having .

I have been advise to drop another 3.5mg today and I'm really scared.

Every time that I drop I do feel more of a overwhelming feeling specially the first few days hence why I'm so scared.

The mental health team says let's get you down to 15mg and then see how you feel and go from there. 

With the main target to get me off completely if necessary which I think it will be .

My symptoms includes buzzing ears, inner, headaches that come and go,restless , brain fog , overall feeling of inner restless, scared, feeling of doom and detached from the person that I was only 3/4 months ago and also mentally and physically tired..etc..it's kinda hard to fully explain akathesia, but I think that from my research I have it more on a subjective form.

Also hard has I don't know which symptoms are from the condition or from whidrawl.

My partner have been supportive too and keeps saying you will get through this.

My worries is if I'm dropping the doses to quick and make my recovery longer or more painful!! At the same time I want to stop feeling like this so I feel like I'm against the wall without knowing what's best for me to do!!

I ment to drop another 3.5mg tonight and I'm scared and would like to ear your view advice on this matter.

Like I mentioned, another concern of mine is if I don't follow their advise which I partner is in favour they would wash their hands of me and I could potentially lose their support.

I have been sleeping slightly better since I've been dropping to be honest and when I wake up around the half 4 mark have been managing to get back to sleep till about 7 sometimes on and off.

It's hard to discribe my days exactly like you example but I'll try.

7.00 wake up anxious (physical sensations)

Like tingly and feel light tremors 

8.00 have breakfast and take 20mg propranolol

Then untill lunch time my symptoms varies with pressure headaches buzzing ears are constant.

Overall feeling of being scared for feeling like this and sad to think that 3 months on this medication made feel like this which is soo scary and painfull.

I have lunch around 1.30pm and take another 20mg propranolol sometimes depending how I feel I may just take 10mg that includes after breakfast.

Throughout the day it's pretty much slight ups and down and it seems to be better in the evening, which I'm so grateful for.

I have taken vitamin B6 here and there when I'm feeling really bad but not sure if it works and I have magnisium which again I don't take in consistently.

Regarding the Diazepam, I was subscribed 2mg tablets and every now I would take 1mg (half a tablet) nearly took it yesterday but resisted and I know that getting my body used to them would only make my situation worse.

The consultant said to take 2mg as needed through this tamper stage.

Apologies for this long post .

So to finalize I'm ment to to drop 15mg which is a drop of just over 11mg over 3 weeks I'm I'm so worried that it's far to quick I do plan to definitely stay at 15mg for a good few weeks that's what I will asked them .

Worried that whidrawl symptoms on top of akathesia can be really hard .

Please please let me know your views on this situation ??

Many thanks again and I can't thank you enough.

Please ask anything else that would help your advise .

Regards

 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Altostrata
8 hours ago, Ngf77 said:

My symptoms includes buzzing ears, inner, headaches that come and go,restless , brain fog , overall feeling of inner restless, scared, feeling of doom and detached from the person that I was only 3/4 months ago and also mentally and physically tired..etc..it's kinda hard to fully explain akathesia, but I think that from my research I have it more on a subjective form.

 

Ng, when did these symptoms start? Was it when you increased to 30mg?

 

Have you been feeling better as you've decreased the dose of mirtazapine? Are you taking 15mg now? How's your sleep?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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manymoretodays
On 4/29/2020 at 1:45 AM, Ngf77 said:

I have been sleeping slightly better since I've been dropping to be honest and when I wake up around the half 4 mark have been managing to get back to sleep till about 7 sometimes on and off.

It's hard to discribe my days exactly like you example but I'll try.

7.00 wake up anxious (physical sensations)

Like tingly and feel light tremors 

8.00 have breakfast and take 20mg propranolol

Then untill lunch time my symptoms varies with pressure headaches buzzing ears are constant.

Overall feeling of being scared for feeling like this and sad to think that 3 months on this medication made feel like this which is soo scary and painfull.

I have lunch around 1.30pm and take another 20mg propranolol sometimes depending how I feel I may just take 10mg that includes after breakfast.

Throughout the day it's pretty much slight ups and down and it seems to be better in the evening, which I'm so grateful for.

I have taken vitamin B6 here and there when I'm feeling really bad but not sure if it works and I have magnisium which again I don't take in consistently.

Regarding the Diazepam, I was subscribed 2mg tablets and every now I would take 1mg (half a tablet) nearly took it yesterday but resisted and I know that getting my body used to them would only make my situation worse.

The consultant said to take 2mg as needed through this tamper stage.

 

And okay Ngf77, 

Getting close here, above.  Just for the daily notes, note a time on the left, and then brief symptoms on the right, as well as any drugs, supplements by name and dosage.  It eventually will be helpful to you as well, to see more clearly what might be causing what.  No doubt you have some WD ongoing.  Take a look at the first post in the link I gave you, on daily notes, if you have not already.

 

How often do you think you have taken the 2 mg Diazepam in the last 2 weeks?  When did you start it?

When did you begin the propanolol?

You could put the start dates in your signature:  Account Settings/signature

And once edited then don't forget to hit the SAVE button as well.

 

On 4/29/2020 at 10:33 AM, Altostrata said:

Ng, when did these symptoms start? Was it when you increased to 30mg?

 

Have you been feeling better as you've decreased the dose of mirtazapine? Are you taking 15mg now? How's your sleep?

 

And then just directly answer questions, as asked, is often very helpful too.  If need be, you might do separate posts.  Daily notes in one.  Direct answers in another.

To quote, you just need to hit the quote button, below a post, and then you can reply........or to just do a partial quote, just highlight/select the section you want to quote, and a quote box will appear, then tick/click that.

 

Thanks Ngf77.  @Ngf77

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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Ngf77
7 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

And okay Ngf77, 

Getting close here, above.  Just for the daily notes, note a time on the left, and then brief symptoms on the right, as well as any drugs, supplements by name and dosage.  It eventually will be helpful to you as well, to see more clearly what might be causing what.  No doubt you have some WD ongoing.  Take a look at the first post in the link I gave you, on daily notes, if you have not already.

 

How often do you think you have taken the 2 mg Diazepam in the last 2 weeks?  When did you start it?

When did you begin the propanolol?

You could put the start dates in your signature:  Account Settings/signature

And once edited then don't forget to hit the SAVE button as well.

 

 

And then just directly answer questions, as asked, is often very helpful too.  If need be, you might do separate posts.  Daily notes in one.  Direct answers in another.

To quote, you just need to hit the quote button, below a post, and then you can reply........or to just do a partial quote, just highlight/select the section you want to quote, and a quote box will appear, then tick/click that.

 

Thanks Ngf77.  @Ngf77

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Hi,

Sorry I'm still working out how this works .

I get now how the reply the quotes work.

I started to take propranolol on the 17th of April and I take 20mg 3 time daily.

I only taken 1mg (half a tablet) diazepam once or twice in the last 2 weeks as I'm concious that they can add more issues for me on the long run so I only take it if I'm really struggling .

It's been over a week now since I've taking any at all.

I'm on the second day on 15mg of Mirtazapine .

I have tampered down 3.5mg every week as advised by my mental health consultant.

Their plan is to get me off this medication.

I have expressed my concerns of tampering too quick as I don't want to cause more symptoms as it's hard going as it is already .

I have been sleeping slightly better since I've been decreasing the dosage which is good .

I take propranolol after meals breakfast lunch and dinner and Mirtazapine just before bed at around 10pm 

My symptoms vary throughout the day.

7 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

And okay Ngf77, 

Getting close here, above.  Just for the daily notes, note a time on the left, and then brief symptoms on the right, as well as any drugs, supplements by name and dosage.  It eventually will be helpful to you as well, to see more clearly what might be causing what.  No doubt you have some WD ongoing.  Take a look at the first post in the link I gave you, on daily notes, if you have not already.

 

How often do you think you have taken the 2 mg Diazepam in the last 2 weeks?  When did you start it?

When did you begin the propanolol?

You could put the start dates in your signature:  Account Settings/signature

And once edited then don't forget to hit the SAVE button as well.

 

 

And then just directly answer questions, as asked, is often very helpful too.  If need be, you might do separate posts.  Daily notes in one.  Direct answers in another.

To quote, you just need to hit the quote button, below a post, and then you can reply........or to just do a partial quote, just highlight/select the section you want to quote, and a quote box will appear, then tick/click that.

 

Thanks Ngf77.  @Ngf77

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Ngf77
7 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

How often do you think you have taken the 2 mg Diazepam in the last 2 weeks?  When did you start it?

When did you begin the propanolol?

Hi,

Many thanks for you reply and for further explaining how this works .

I started taking propranolol on the 17th of April when I tampered down for 26.25mg down to 22.5 mg as I was subscribed by my GP ..3 times daily after meals breakfast, lunch and dinner .

I have only taken diazepam once or twice 1mg (half a tablet) that I remember in the last 2 weeks as I'm concious that they can add more problems to my already complicated situation.

Only taken it if I'm really struggling with agitation.


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Ngf77
7 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Ng, when did these symptoms start? Was it when you increased to 30mg?

 

Have you been feeling better as you've decreased the dose of mirtazapine? Are you taking 15mg now? How's your sleep?

Hi there,

I believe that yes it started when I increased to 30mg as I've became more and more anxious and didn't know what was happening but knew that something was wrong.

I do feel like the agitation as decreased as I'm decreasing the dose not too much but definitely slightly I think anyway .

Also my sleep seems to have slightly improved .

I wake up after usually 5 and half solid sleep and then I'm often managing to fall back to sleep.

Still tired when I get up but at least I'm sleeping.

Thank you .

Please ask anything else that may help .

Many thanks again 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Ngf77
51 minutes ago, Ngf77 said:

see more clearly what might be causing what.  No doubt you have some WD ongoing.  Take a look at the first post in the link I gave you, on daily notes, if you have not already.

Hi ,

I have read it and are aware of the dangers of tampering too quick, 3 and half  months on AD and I had to learn this on the hard way as this medication cause me so much harm.

I have been tampering super quick for the last 3 weeks as advised first by my GP and the by the Psychiatrist consultant at the mental health team that I have to call them time and time again to get an appointment .

Although I'm suffering even without tampering I'm almost feel forced to do it as I'm getting advised and I don't want them to wash their hands of me and say something like ( ah well you not following our instructions we can't help you then) if you know what I mean .

I'm in a problematic situation and don't want to do this on my own, if it makes sense.

I'm down from 26.25mg to 15mg starting on the 17th April with a drop of 3.5mg every week.

I will strongly ask them to be kept on this dosage for a good 3 to for weeks and see how I feel.

See what they say about that!

They know that this medication is causing me harm and want to get me off it but I worry that they don't know the harm it can cause if I'm tampering too quick, that is my biggest worry.

Many thanks again and hope this further explains my situation.


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Altostrata
10 hours ago, Ngf77 said:

I will strongly ask them to be kept on this dosage for a good 3 to for weeks and see how I feel.

 

This is probably the best course for now. Keep drug changes at a minimum.

 

Please be aware your doctors probably don't know what your symptoms mean. You may or may not have had akathisia; since you've insisted on it, it made them nervous and they want to get you off the drug.

 

Since you're feeling better (akathisia or whatever it was has been relieved by dosage decrease), there is no need to rush off the drug. You must stop working yourself up and let your symptoms settle down. You may have some sleeplessness and surges in symptoms while your nervous system calms itself.

 

Please keep daily notes as manymoretodays explained  and post them in this topic. The way you're reporting symptoms, it is hard to tell what's going on. We know they change, that's normal.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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manymoretodays

Hi Ngf77, @Ngf77

On 5/1/2020 at 1:34 AM, Ngf77 said:

I started taking propranolol on the 17th of April when I tampered down for 26.25mg down to 22.5 mg as I was subscribed by my GP ..3 times daily after meals breakfast, lunch and dinner .

I have only taken diazepam once or twice 1mg (half a tablet) that I remember in the last 2 weeks as I'm concious that they can add more problems to my already complicated situation.

Only taken it if I'm really struggling with agitation.

 

You might be interested in this topic too, then:

Tips for tapering off propranolol

 

And good on going very sparing with the diazepam.  Dependency on benzo's can occur in as little time, as 2 weeks usage. 

 

We don't really encourage the use of other drugs, such as propranolol, to treat withdrawal.  The notes may illustrate, however, if it is helping you with this initial and ongoing agitation.  Sometimes, unfortunately, we really have to act as if, we are doing, better than we are, when dealing with adverse drug reactions and/or WD.  Otherwise, doctors will tend to just prescribe more and more medications.  If your goal is to become drug-free one day, it CAN be challenging.

 

And any non-drug coping skills you can practice and learn now, may be helpful in the long run.  Unfortunately, this isn't going to all resolve overnight or real quickly.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilizaton

 

There is a whole indexed list in the first post here too, of non-drug coping for many of the symptoms WD throws our way:

Non-drug techniques to cope

Some of my favorites:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/658-easing-your-way-into-meditation-for-a-stressed-out-nervous-system/?/topic/658-e

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5873-mindfulness-and-acceptance/?tab=comments#comment-50591

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2823-music-for-self-care-calms-hyperalertness-anxiety-aids-relaxation-and-sleep/

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16840-music-therapy-music-for-wellness-and-healing/

 

If you can get out for some gentle exercise in nature too, that may help.  Some sun walks, or brief excursions off the usual grid can really help.

 

And yes, give us a day or two, laid out, to illustrate how you are doing.  The daily notes.

And then in perhaps a separate post, any narratives around your coping and frustrations now.  And hopefully, you can begin connecting with some of the other members too, for additional support from people who "get it".

 

Best Ngf77,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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Kerrym

Could your adverse reaction to your previous med be causing your trouble?

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Kerrym

What do you think?

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Ngf77

Hi Kerry m,

I really don't think so as I only took 3 tablets of the previous meds.

I believe that it started when I increased the dose from 15mg to 30mg.

Although I never never felt any good or myself ever since I started on the current medication.

It's hard to really know to be honest .

I working to come out of this current medication.

Thanks for your questions

 

 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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Ngf77

Hi everyone, 

Unfortunately I am still struggling and looking for some advise and support if possible.

As per start of this post I've developed akathesia while on Mirtazapine ...either when I increased to 30mg from 15mg or when I dropped from 30mg to 22.50.

Or just gradually it's really hard to know .

On the advise of my psychiatrist doctor and as a desperate attempt to get of this medication I have been tempering down far too quick, which is making me feel worse.

All my tampering details are as follows.

15th January 15.00mg
17th February 30.00mg
12th March 22.50mg
18 March up to 26.25mg
17 April 22.50mg
24th April 18.75mg
30 April 15.00mg
7 May 11.25mg

I was advised to drop the dose again last week which I didn't as my body/mind is telling me that can become really dangerous as I'm struggling bit time with akathesia.

I do more than anything want off this medication but would appreciate you guys wisdom on how should I do moving forward.

I was thinking maybe in 2 weeks to drop 10 per cent to which will bring it down to 10mg .

Has anyone got experience on best outcomes when tampering akathesia inducing antidepressants?

I'm just over 4 months on this medication.

Many thanks in advance for any help, guidance and support 


7th January bad reaction to sertaline only after 3 doses so stopped.

15th January 2020 started Mirtazapine 15mg

17th February 2020 started Mirtazapine 30mg 

12th March 2020 dropped to 22.50mg after 4/5 days Quicky increased to 26.25mg due to WD symptoms 

16th April tampered to 22.50mg

23th April tampered down to 18.5mg 

Current dose 18.5mg 

Propranolol 3 times daily of 20mg 

Magnesium 200mg daily 100mg after breakfast and 100 after lunch 

 

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