Mrcumbia: Prozac 25 years

[Mrcumbia]

Hi everybody

 

So here’s my story. At age 12 I got diagnosed with OCD and was put on Prozac for it. Since then I’ve pretty much  been taking the medication. But now I have been wanting to stop because of the horrible side effects. The dose that I’ve pretty much been taking for all these years has been 60mg per day except for once when I was put on 80mg for about 2 weeks which was a very bad idea.

 

Anyways, recently I managed to go down to 40mg per day and stay there for 3 months and then down to 20mg per day and wait another 3 months per my Nurse Practitioners instructions. Somehow I managed to survive the ordeal. But now that I went down to 15 mg I had a severe withdrawal reaction that I wasn’t expecting. Dizziness, internal vibrations, headaches, eye pain, tingling and numbness on my hands etc...  this started on day 6 and went on till day 43 when I went back up to 20mg because I couldn’t take it anymore. I’m now on day 10 back on 20 mg but am still having the symptoms. Is there any hope left for me? Will I get better? 

 

Any help would greatly be appreciated.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Mrcumbia.  Yes, there is hope and yes, you will get better.  But it will take some time

 

Your NP's taper was far too fast, producing the withdrawal symptoms you're now experiencing.  Doctors and nurses know nothing about safe tapering and don't even believe in withdrawal.  

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

It's especially important to taper slowly at the lower doses, which is why when you went from 20mg to 15mg, the too-fast taper caught up with you.  So that you'll have a better understanding of what you're experiencing, here is some information on withdrawal. The symptoms you describe are typical antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

What your brain needs now, after the too fast taper and the updose from 15mg to 20mg, is stability.  I would hold where you are at 20mg until your brain starts to stabilize.  This can take several months.  After you stabilize you can start a slow, safe 10% taper to zero.  As I said, you will heal, but it's going to take patience and time.  You are not alone; virtually every member on this site has tapered too fast, often under the misguided direction of a medical professional.  If you need some encouragement, read through the success stories on the main page of this site.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mrcumbia]

Thank you so much for replying to my question Gridley. I’m currently on day 14 back on 20 mg of Prozac. I’m starting to notice that during the day  sometimes I’ll feel a little bit better,  but then I’ll start to feel worse again. It’s like it comes and goes. Hopefully it will get better. Dizziness was so bad that I’ve missed work for a week because I can’t drive.  

 

Thank you so much for responding . I’ll be shure to check out all the links you sent. 

 

Mrcumbia

[Mrcumbia]

So after 4 months back on 20 mg of Prozac up from 15mg, I am currently wanting to start tapering down because of the terrible side effects. Constant internal vibration that I think is Akathisia, weakness that hinders me at work, nausea, insomnia, eye pain, terrible morning anxiety.  Last time I tried going down from 20mg to 15mg it went horribly wrong.

 

I had terrible side effects that forced me to go back up to 20mg. I tried to tough it out to see if the withdrawal symptoms would get better but after 43 days I couldn't take it any longer so I went back up to 20 mg. I missed a week of work because I couldn't drive because of the dizziness. Thing is I’ve progressively been feeling the internal vibrations getting worse and worse ever since updosing. The dizziness has pretty much subsided for the most part. 

 

It's now been at least 4 months since I am back on at 20mg and was thinking of starting a slower taper but I am honestly scared.  So I was thinking of maybe being conservative and doing a 5% reduction to start off with.

 

The question is, should I just use the 20mg tablets that I already have and try to make a liquid solution from that? If so how would I go about doing that?  Or is it better to ask my doctor to write me a prescription for the liquid version of the prozac? 

 

I would forever be grateful if someone could hopefully point me in the right direction.

 

Thank You

[Altostrata]

Did you feel better when you increased to 20mg?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

[Mrcumbia]

When I updosed back to 20mg I’d say it took about 3 weeks or so before I started feeling gradually better. The dizziness started to gradually slowly get better to where I was finally able to drive again. Although I’d say it took about 4 weeks before I finally felt the dizziness stop. Thing is when I was on 15 mg, I can swear I remember the internal vibrations get lower in intensity. When I finally updosed back to 20mg I could feel as the weeks went by the symptoms get worse again in intensity again. Nausea, anxiety, dry mouth, insomnia, low energy, weakness, and especially the internal vibrations, which keep me up some nights and some nights are less intense but never really gone. They are still there.
 

Another reason that I have been wanting to get off this medication is because I am constantly hungry. I can’t seem to last more than 3 hours before I start feeling shaky and need to eat. I had an annual checkup and the doc said everything looks fine. My A1C is fine. So I did some research and it turns out Prozac can mess with your appetite and also cause hypoglycemia in some people. So I suspect it might be the Prozac.
 

so here is a typical day for me usually

 

8:00 am  wake up feeling very anxious and internal shaking, nausea, 

8:15 am start getting ready for work

8:30 am eat breakfast 

8:45 am take supplements calm magnesium citrate 1 tsp, multivitamin, vitamin D3 4000 iu, fish oil, and vitamin b6

9:30 am start commute to work not feeling well

10:00 am Arrive at work very anxious. drink chamomile tea all morning and chew mint gum to try to help with anxiety
11:00 am have to eat because feel shaky and anxious

11:30 am still eating emergency snacks

12:00 pm eat lunch and start too feel better 

1:00 pm take PROZAC 20mg

2:00 pm feel it kicking in get a bit anxious and start feeling a bit weak

4:30 pm have to eat again leftover lunch start to feel better again energy up again

6:20 pm start home commute

6:50 pm get home eat dinner 

10:00 pm go to sleep

 

[Mrcumbia]

So for the past few days I’ve been having mild dizziness come back with headaches along with the internal vibrations get worse , anxiety also , weakness, dry mouth. I suspect my body might still be trying to recover maybe from first going too fast down first from 60mg to 40 mg for 3 months then from 40mg to 20 mg for another 3 months. And then from 20mg down to 15mg for 43 days which is when I updosed back to 20mg again.

It’s been at least 4 months Since I’ve been back up to 20mg. I suspect I might not be ready yet to try tapering down . I tried yesterday for the first time mixing 20ml of water with a 20mg tablet of Prozac and then drawing out 1ml of solution so that I could take 19mg but I think it hit me harder I think maybe since it’s liquid. I dunno I think I’m going to go back to taking the 20mg Tablet and holding longer. 
My PA wants to give me Ativan for the anxiety but I’m scared to take it because I hear it’s also hard to get off it once your addicted. 
I wonder if I should try updosing back to 40 mg but I’m scared.

[Rusty1]

5 hours ago, Mrcumbia said:

So for the past few days I’ve been having mild dizziness come back with headaches along with the internal vibrations get worse , anxiety also , weakness, dry mouth. I suspect my body might still be trying to recover maybe from first going too fast down first from 60mg to 40 mg for 3 months then from 40mg to 20 mg for another 3 months. And then from 20mg down to 15mg for 43 days which is when I updosed back to 20mg again.

It’s been at least 4 months Since I’ve been back up to 20mg. I suspect I might not be ready yet to try tapering down . I tried yesterday for the first time mixing 20ml of water with a 20mg tablet of Prozac and then drawing out 1ml of solution so that I could take 19mg but I think it hit me harder I think maybe since it’s liquid. I dunno I think I’m going to go back to taking the 20mg Tablet and holding longer. 
My PA wants to give me Ativan for the anxiety but I’m scared to take it because I hear it’s also hard to get off it once your addicted. 
I wonder if I should try updosing back to 40 mg but I’m scared.

One thing I noticed when I started cutting my pills significantly for my taper of Paxil is it exposed more of the raw edge of the pill and didn't have the factory coating around it that held it together.  It seemed to be absorbed by my body quicker and I didn't tolerate it as well.  I started putting my cut pills into gel caps to help delay the release a bit and that helped.

When I switched to liquid dosing I kept using the gel cap and have not had any issues.

 

Other people here can give you far better advice on your symptoms and how to best manage your taper for your particular situation.  If you had issues tolerating taking your medicine, thought I would chime in as that was something I found success in.

Stay positive through the bad times.  I can vouch for the fact that in this process we go through times where it seems like nothing can or will get better, but in withdrawal we are the tortoise not the hare and better times do eventually come.

Best of luck!

[Altostrata]

You felt better when you were taking 15mg than 20mg?

 

Do you feel worse after you take 20mg Prozac at 1 p.m.?

[Mrcumbia]

I would say the only thing that felt a little better from what I can remember was the internal vibrations. Basically I was feeling like crap at 20 so I decided to go down to 15 and felt more like crap overall so I went back up to 20. I started to feel better gradually mostly the dizziness, but over time I feel like I’m feeling worse than before dropping to 20mg.  Usually I try to wait to take the prozac at 1 p.m.because I have really bad anxiety in the mornings, so I wanted to try to avoid any possibility that the prozac could end up making me feel worse. Usually after lunch my anxiety is much better once I eat lunch. So that's when I try to take it. After I do take it, I feel it sort of starts kicking in within the next hour and I would say my anxiety goes up a bit but not like in the mornings. And then the cycle repeats itself all over again the next day. Weakness has been kicking in lately to where I had to leave work early because I felt really weak yesterday. Very frustrating. I think my job is probably in jeopardy. So today I just ended up taking the 20mg tablet again. 

[Altostrata]

When did you increase to 20mg? Did you initially feel better after the increase?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Mrcumbia]

I updosed from 15mg to 20mg on March the 2nd of this year. Took a while before started to feel better gradually. Mostly the dizziness. But overall I’d say I feel  worse than before I dropped to 15mg overall. That’s why I think I might not be ready to try tapering down yet. The dizziness and headaches started appearing again a few days ago again after having been gone for a few weeks. Although less intense. I can still drive this time. It might be a second wave?

The internal vibrations does seem to be getting worse.

 

I apologize for my rambling. I don’t want to come across as annoying. I hope someday I can look back, and all of this just be a distant memory.

 

 

[Altostrata]

My guess is 20mg is too much for you, and you might feel better if you reduced it. You might try 19mg and see how it goes. Let us know how you"re doing.

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Mrcumbia said:

 

Usually I try to wait to take the prozac at 1 p.m.because I have really bad anxiety in the mornings, so I wanted to try to avoid any possibility that the prozac could end up making me feel worse. Usually after lunch my anxiety is much better once I eat lunch. So that's when I try to take it.

 

 

Q:   Do you eat breakfast?

 

If you don't then, because you feel better after eating at lunch time, low blood sugar may be causing it or contributing to it.

[Mrcumbia]

Ok so I have a question.

 

I read that it’s recommended that if you are going to go the liquid tapering route, to try to take part liquid and part pill at first so that your body can aclimate to the liquid. So should I do half tablet and half liquid and stay at 20mg for a few days before trying to taper to 19mg? 

 

Or can I just go ahead and start with half a 20mg tablet which is 10mg and then take 9mg of liquid? 

 

Also as long as my ratios are even which is 1/1 or 20ml to 20mg then I should be good to go? For the liquid solution? 

 

Should I worry about the particles settling to the bottom as I’m drawing the solution and it throwing my dose off?

 

 

[Altostrata]

If you have 10mg capsules, it probably will be a smoother transition to take 10mg in capsule form and 9mg in liquid. Prozac liquid is available by prescription.

 

See Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

[Mrcumbia]

So I was thinking.

 

The 20mg fluoxetine tablets that I have are scored with a line in the middle to break them in half. Will cutting one in half and taking that with the

other half mixed with 10mg fluoxetine and 10ml of water work? And then just taking out the 1ml to make it 19mg?

 

That way I won't have to ask the PA to write a prescription for 10 mg tablets and then the liquid fluoxetine separately?

 

Since it would be from 2 different manufacturers I worry that my body would be sensitive to mixing fluoxetine from

2 different manufacturers one in tablet form and the other in liquid form. Is this a valid concern? Or maybe I'm just overthinking it.

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

After reading Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine), what do you think?

[Mrcumbia]

After doing some more reading I guess I feel more comfortable giving it a shot. I think I am going to try taking half the tablet and the other half mixed in water to start off with and hold for a few days before trying a reduction just to make sure I don't get any weird symptoms and see how that goes. 

 

I also came across BrassMonkeys method for splitting the dose reduction across 4 weeks and then doing a 2 week hold

before starting another reduction. I found it very interesting and might end up giving that a try for the 5% dose reduction which would mean 1.25% reduction per week.

 

Thank you so much everyone who has responded to my questions! I really appreciate it. I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.

 

If anyone has any more tips or suggestions please don't hesitate to send them over.

 

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, Mrcumbia said:

I think I am going to try taking half the tablet and the other half mixed in water to start off with and hold for a few days before trying a reduction just to make sure I don't get any weird symptoms and see how that goes. 

 

It would be a good idea to wait at least 1 week before reducing.  It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Even though you won't be making a dose change, the way/speed the body "absorbs" the dose may be different.  It's better to take a bit longer than to risk causing problems.

[Mrcumbia]

Thank you ChesieCat for the heads up I will definitely be implementing your suggestion.

 

Cheers

[ChessieCat]

Actually I've just realised that you are taking Prozac.  Prozac has a longer half life than most ADs.  It would probably be a good idea to wait at least 2 weeks or if you are not having adverse effects, I think it would be better to wait 3 weeks.  It's better to start off from a place of stability then you are better able to assess how the reductions are affecting you once you start tapering.  If you start tapering too soon you will not know if any issues are caused by the change over or by the reduction.  And when that sort of thing happens it can make members worry about the size of their reductions because they don't know if they are able to handle the % reduction, and the worry also adds stress so that can compound the situation too because some of the issue could be related to the stress.  And you won't know what is causing what.  I hope that makes sense.

 

From the Tips for Tapering Prozac topic:

 

  

On 7/3/2011 at 4:11 AM, Altostrata said:

 

It has the longest half-life of any SSRI. After you take it for a few days, half-life is about 16 days. Fluoxetine itself has a half-life of 2-4 days, but as it is processed, your body creates an active antidepressant metabolite, norfluoxetine, which has a half-life of 7-15 days. So Prozac keeps on extending its half-life as it is metabolized.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoxetine , fluoxetine and norfluoxetine inhibit each other's metabolism, extending the half-life of the drug. Because the half-lives are so long, the full effect of Prozac on the brain may not be felt for several weeks.

 

 

[Mrcumbia]

Gotcha. It makes sense what you are saying, to take the extra time to wait just to make sure I don't confuse any symptoms. I will definitely be

going that route when I am ready to begin tapering. I started getting headaches and mild to moderate dizziness every now and then again after they had calmed down when I updosed back to 20mg from 15mg. Plus some new symptoms like fatigue, weakness. 

 

So my best guess is I might be going through a second wave of withdrawal symptoms even though its been at least 4 months since I did the updose. As much as I want to start tapering I'm still afraid to start right now. Although a part of me thinks that maybe I'm feeling this way because my body is saying 20mg is too much and I should start tapering. But my gut instinct is telling me otherwise. 

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Mrcumbia said:

After doing some more reading I guess I feel more comfortable giving it a shot. I think I am going to try taking half the tablet and the other half mixed in water to start off with

 

Excellent idea. As Chessie said, give Prozac a couple of weeks to see the effects of any change.

[Dejavu]

Hi @Mrcumbia I'm sorry you are struggling right now, but the advice you're getting from Alto and ChessieCat is the best of the best. I want to share a couple of things with you. About the internal vibrations, I suffered them terribly after I tapered way too fast, crashed, reinstated, and was awaiting stability. I had them so bad I was bedbound for a while. By that, I mean I could not even sit up! When those started to come and go, I realized I was starting to level out. The first time I sat in a chair for 15 minutes was a sweet day. It got better from there, with smaller ups and downs along the way. It took me 10 months to reach stability. I then waited another 2 months before I started my taper. By then, I was pretty much symptom free. It might not take that long for you. I was operating under some external stressors and grief at the time, which I am sure prolonged stability for me, but my point is that this is a marathon, not a sprint. And it takes as long as it takes, but it does happen.

 

In the meantime, one tip I found that helped me sleep through those internal vibrations was to sleep on my stomach. If you can try that, maybe it will work for you too. It gave me hours and hours of sleep that I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

 

With regard to the leg weakness, I have that too, but it is a side effect of taking sertraline for me, not a withdrawal symptom. Since you noticed it after you updosed, maybe that's what is happening to you, too. If that's the case, it will probably lessen as you go lower in dosage. So don't let it bother you if it sticks around for a bit. Everything will settle out in time. 

[Mrcumbia]

Dejavu, thank you for giving me words of hope.  Hope I think is something that helps a person endure difficult circumstances. Knowing that I’m not the only one I guess helps a bit. I wish all of you guys the best.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Dejavu said:

In the meantime, one tip I found that helped me sleep through those internal vibrations was to sleep on my stomach. If you can try that, maybe it will work for you too. It gave me hours and hours of sleep that I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

 

If you start sleeping on your stomach, it might be a good idea to do neck stretches when you get up and during the day to "offset" any bad posture overnight.  You could do a search online to see what might be good.  Also be aware that if we change our posture in one area, it can affect other areas of the body too.

[Dejavu]

I used a very flat pillow, or sometimes no pillow at all. My neck was sometimes stiff in the morning, but those stretches Chessie is talking about usually did the trick. Also, neck rotations are good, but remember to do them slowly. But if you can tolerate stomach sleeping, it also helps you breathe easier. Good if you happen to suffer allergies or withdrawal-induced dyspnea.

[ChessieCat]

24 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

Also, neck rotations are good, but remember to do them slowly.

 

I've got a book Fitness After 40 written by a physiotherapist.  She says to ease into a stretch, don't jerk.  Don't bounce while stretching.  Do not do a neck stretch if it produces pain or tingling down either arm.

 

And as Dejavu said:  DO NOT do quick circling movements with your head and neck.  This puts strain on the neck joints.

 

When circling the arms don't do it with straight arms out to the side, you can do it with elbows bent and hands on shoulders.

 

And don't for the chin tuck exercise too.

[Mrcumbia]

Thanks for the tips on stretching. I will definitely be keeping those in mind.

 

Cheers

[ChessieCat]

Good idea.  You don't want any additional, unnecessary and preventable problems.

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Mrcumbia]

Been feeling pretty weak and fatigued lately. I don’t think I’ve ever felt this low energy that I can ever remember while being on prozac. I haven’t been on 20mg for what it seems like ages. Doc always had me either at 40 or 60 mg for most of my life.  I wonder if when I start tapering if I’ll feel my energy coming back up. This is weird. Actually been missing work because of this. Has anybody ever heard of weakness being a problem with Prozac?

[ChessieCat]

I had to stop taking Prozac.  It caused weak muscles.  I had trouble walking because it felt like the muscles in my lower body couldn't keep my hips in place.

 

If you search:  muscle weakness Prozac side effect you will see that it is a known side effect of the drug.

[Mrcumbia]

When you stopped taking prozac ChessieCat, did you have a hard time stopping it?

Did the weakness in your muscles get better as you lowered the dose? 

 

It looks to me like I'm pretty much going to end up losing my job because my job requires me to be standing and walking all day. I've missed all of last week and half of the week before that because I feel an overall sense of weakness and especially when walking. 

 

Thing is I'm having a hard time determining if this is a withdrawal symptom or a symptom of the medicine. Yesterday I still had the dizziness kicking in in the afternoon and at night. It was about a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10. Today during the day it hasn't been so bad, it seems to have gotten a bit better, down to about a 3. The internal vibrations are still always there like an old faithful dog. Never going away, always there along with all of the other debilitating symptoms.

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Mrcumbia said:

When you stopped taking prozac ChessieCat, did you have a hard time stopping it?

Did the weakness in your muscles get better as you lowered the dose? 

 

I stopped it as soon as I realised it was Prozac.  I can't remember if I had withdrawal symptoms.  It was a very long time ago, possibly 30 years so half of my life time.  I did start taking St John's Wort after that but still had the weak muscles.  I don't know if it was still from Prozac or if St John's Wort caused the same issue.  But I stopped taking that too.  I think the muscle weakness stopped soon after stopping.

 

2 hours ago, Mrcumbia said:

Thing is I'm having a hard time determining if this is a withdrawal symptom or a symptom of the medicine.

 

Q:  Is this the first time that you have had weak muscles?

 

Q:  When did you first notice the muscle weakness?

 

You have made some big dose changes in the last 14 months:

 

May 2019 Prozac 80mg                    

Jun 2019 Prozac 60mg                    25% reduction

July 19 2019 Prozac 40mg              33% reduction

Oct 19 2019 Prozac 20mg               50% reduction

Jan 20 2020 Prozac 15mg               25% reduction

Mar 2 2020 Prozac 20mg                 25% increase

 

 

 

[Mrcumbia]

10 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  Is this the first time that you have had weak muscles?

 

 

Yes, as far as I can remember, I have never had this problem with the overall feeling of weakness and especially walking.

 

 

11 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  When did you first notice the muscle weakness?

 

I would say I started noticing it maybe about 2 to 3 weeks ago where it started to seriously interfere with my ability to function at work.

 

 

13 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

You have made some big dose changes in the last 14 months

 

Yes, unfortunately all guided by my PA who it seems isn't aware about slowly tapering and I was also unaware unfortunately until I found you guys.

 

Once when I was about 15 years old I stopped taking it and developed severe dizziness, and the psychiatrist who I was seeing at the time never told

me that what I was experiencing was withdrawl symptoms, he led me to believe that I needed the drug because I had a chemical imbalance and that 

the dizziness was a sign that I needed the drug. But now I know that that wasn't the case. I was going through withdrawl at the time, I just didn't know it.