mooki24: introduction - weaning off fluvoxamine / Luvox

[mooki24]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the late reply. I wanted to check in and thank you all for your guidance. I appreciate the time you all took to answer my questions and wanted to say thanks for putting up with me as I was feeling pretty desperate.

 

I went up 5mg as suggested - it's been two weeks now. My withdrawal symptoms aren't as horrible as they used to be but I'm still feeling low and depressed.

 

Will keep monitoring.

 

Thanks again 💙

[ChessieCat]

That's good news that you have noticed improvement.  You might find that your symptoms start to improve even more over the next few weeks.  But please be patient.  Your original improvement might have been very noticeable after a short while, whereas you may continue to improve but at a slower rate.  Keeping notes on paper can sometimes help you to see the improvement which you may not feel.  Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

There are some printable and computer withdrawal symptom charts here:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

We strongly encourage members to learn and use Non-drug techniques to get through the difficult times.  We need to learn to "sit with" discomfort.  Learning Acceptance can also be helpful.  Reminding yourself that it is what it is AT THIS TIME, even though your brain may tell you that you will be like this forever.

 

If, in another week's time you find that your symptoms are really unbearable, please let us know and we can discuss whether updosing by a tiny bit more might be worth a try.

 

[mooki24]

Thank you for your reply @ChessieCat

 

I've been keeping daily notes on my symptoms for the last few months, the side effects are definitely levelling out as I feel less of a need to constantly write down symptoms (which is so nice!)

 

The only problem is that I still feel very low. I'm in isolation due to the corona virus which is worsening the situation. I've read the above post about Acceptance and it's definitely something I need to practice. 

 

Usually when I feel stressed I would have a wine and it would help me relax but I haven't been able to do that in 7 months. Every time I have a glass of alcohol I feel sick and instantly hungover. I hate it because usually this would help me socialise with friends, but not being able to have it means I'm distancing myself from friends. I have no energy,  am very lethargic and sleep a lot. I actually don't really speak to anyone except my partner, parents and doctor. It makes me wonder why I even started to try and get off antidepressants in the first place.. it doesn't feel like it's getting better and I'm worried. I want to accept that this is okay and that I'll get better, but the thought of going up further in medication and just being happy again is like a constant dangling carrot. 

 

If antidepressants worked for me, then maybe I should go up again in dosage. I accept that I feel "stabilised" at the moment but I want to be "happy". And I'm worried that maybe getting off antidepressants isn't for me.

 

(And I miss alcohol and fun and socialising - it's been 7 months since I've felt happy)

 

[mooki24]

Would really love some advice.

 

The horrible side effects have levelled out and I rarely feel dizzy. The extreme crying spells have also stopped. I feel more "stable" then I did a few months ago.

 

However I still feel depressed. When not working, I sleep most of the time. Usually about 10 - 12 hours a day if possible. I have no motivation, no desire for activities, don't want to socialise and find I'm shutting myself off from people. When I first started weaning off the drugs, there seemed to be more clarity (?) to life - but now that seems have faded again. Most days I rate my mood 1 or 2 stars out of 5.

 

People ask how I am, and I always answer "good". but I never feel good. I never feel "fantastic" or "great". I'm just trying to get through the days. 

 

Is it possible that I need to increase again, but also, that I may need to be on these meds for the rest of my life?

 

Thank you

[Hanna72]

@mooki24

11 hours ago, mooki24 said:

The horrible side effects have levelled out and I rarely feel dizzy. The extreme crying spells have also stopped. I feel more "stable" then I did a few months ago.

This is really good.

 

Sometimes in withdrawals, we have to remind ourselves of every single positive thing that is leading us in the right direction. We feel many times that the progress that we so much long for isn’t happening fast enough. Please don’t be to hard on yourself. 
We are having to deal with also the epidemic in the world, and it’s normal to get discouraged and feel sad.
I would try to find something that you can do everyday for your own wellbeing. The smallest things of self care add up,  and it might just give you the push to want to do more. 

Challenges are what makes life interesting, overcoming them is what makes life meaningful.

My best wishes to you🙏

 

[mooki24]

13 hours ago, Hanna72 said:

@mooki24

This is really good.

 

Sometimes in withdrawals, we have to remind ourselves of every single positive thing that is leading us in the right direction. We feel many times that the progress that we so much long for isn’t happening fast enough. Please don’t be to hard on yourself. 
We are having to deal with also the epidemic in the world, and it’s normal to get discouraged and feel sad.
I would try to find something that you can do everyday for your own wellbeing. The smallest things of self care add up,  and it might just give you the push to want to do more. 

Challenges are what makes life interesting, overcoming them is what makes life meaningful.

My best wishes to you🙏

 

 

Hi Hanna72,

 

Thank you for responding. I do self care every day but it doesn't make a huge difference.

 

The only reason I feel more "stable" and the side effects have stopped, is because I went back *up* in medication.

 

Which makes me think I should go up again 🥺

 

My original question still stands - 

Is it possible that I need to increase again, but also, that I may need to be on these meds for the rest of my life?

 

What if I do just have chronic depression that needs to be medicated? Or am I still in withdrawal and the withdrawal is messing with me?

 

Thank you

From a very tired and frustrated mooki24

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Please read:  chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

 

I realise that you were tapering prior to joining SA, so what I am stating is not a criticism of the speed of your taper (it's great that you were tapering!), just a fact.  You have tapered too quickly and what you are experiencing are withdrawal symptoms because of that.

 

Seeing it laid out might help you to understand just how quickly you have tapered.  You will also see that I have included some of the days later when you reduced again.  If you had tapered 10% every 4 weeks it would have taken you 16 x 4 week periods which is about 15 months to go from 300mg to 60mg.  You've done it in 9 months, so it is understandable that it is going to take a while for things to stabilise.

 

2019

Oct- Dec:  300mg -200mg    50%

2020

17 Jan: 175mg      12.5%

     5 days later

22 Jan: 150mg      14.2857%

     14 days        

5 Feb: 125mg        16.6667%

     5 days later      

10 Feb: 100mg      20%

     14 days later       

24 Feb: 50mg        50%      

2 June: 55mg        9.09091%   INCREASE  

2 July: 60mg          8.33333%    INCREASE

 

9 hours ago, mooki24 said:

Is it possible that I need to increase again

 

Before increasing you should ask yourself a question. 

 

Are my symptoms tolerable?  If the answer is yes, then you hold on the current dose and wait until you reach:

 

WDnormal

 

If your answer is no, then you could try increasing by a small amount.  You need to be careful not to updose too much.  It is better to increase by small amounts than to risk taking too much.  And remember it takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  It's also a good idea to keep notes on paper of your symptoms so you can be more objective.  Sometimes you can see improvement that you don't feel.  When we aren't feeling good it just feels all bad but sometimes there are tiny improvements which aren't noticed because we still don't feel as good as we would like to.

 

It's also important to compare how you are feeling now to how you were feeling at your worst, not how you felt at your best or how you want to feel.

 

Only you can make the decision about whether you updose.  Please read Post #1 of this topic.  It's about reinstating, but a lot of it applies to updosing too: 

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[mooki24]

Thanks @ChessieCat. Not offended or feeling criticised in any way about your statements, I agree with you, the taper was way too quick. Thank you for writing all of that out as it makes it really clear when you see the percentages.

 

I saw a new doctor last week and he wants to put me on a low dose of Ritalin to see if it can help with my energy levels and concentration. 

 

Bit worried about going on another medication but doing my research.

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, mooki24 said:

I saw a new doctor last week and he wants to put me on a low dose of Ritalin to see if it can help with my energy levels and concentration. 

 

Bit worried about going on another medication but doing my research.

 

Why would you consider going an another drug?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

You are currently taking and tapering Luvox.  You have tapered too quickly and experiencing withdrawal symptoms from the too fast taper.  There is no magic pill or potion or other drug that is going to magically fix the withdrawal from the too fast taper of the drug you are currently taking.  And you will end up with a second drug to taper off.  And it might even make things worse.  What you are currently experiencing is what we regularly see here - just regular, common, garden variety withdrawal symptoms from too fast tapering.

 

My suggestion would be NOT to add Ritalin.  Put Ritalin and Luvox in the Drug.com Interactions Checker

 

And you've already tried several other psychiatric drugs.  To be quite blunt, I think it's time you stopped looking to drugs to solve your problems.

 

Please watch these videos, especially the one about Medication Spellbinding

Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin

 

 

On 3/30/2020 at 2:26 PM, mooki24 said:

I've also been on lots of other medication due to a traumatic event that happened a few years ago which caused a lot of stress.

 

I'm assuming that the traumatic event is in the past now.  It is possible to learn non drug coping techniques and general life coping skills so that you don't need to rely on drugs.  I suggest you find yourself a good, supportive counsellor who can teach you these skills, not a counsellor who just does talk therapy.  That might help for a short while but it doesn't give you any tools to use.  My daughter suffers from anxiety and her counsellor is teaching her skills to cope with situations that arise in her life.  She is now more able to respond to a situation instead of reacting to it.  Recently her boss, who she really liked, moved to another site/team and my daughter has handled it really well.  Even 6 months ago she would have really struggled to cope.

 

My suggestion would be to either:

 

updose by a small amount of Luvox (which I discussed in my last post)

 

OR

 

hold at your current dose until you stabilise - that is what we call withdrawal normal  WDnormal

 

Once you reach WDnormal, it would then be good to hold for at least 1 extra month to allow your brain to make any adaptations which may be going on that you aren't able to see/feel.

 

Only you can make the decision about what to do.  The information that I have provided will hopefully help you to make an informed decision.

 

[mooki24]

Thank you for your reply. To be honest, your post made me feel like an idiot. The last thing I want is to use drugs to solve my problems. 

 

2020 was a rough year for me (as I'm sure it was for everyone). After trying to withdraw for a year plus covid, 4 family deaths and many other reasons, I couldn't handle being at only 60mg any longer. 

 

As an update, I ended up slowly increasing the luvox until I felt stable. I went from 60mg up to 125mg. Signature has been updated.

 

I'm not proud of this and feel like a failure. Having said that, for the first time in a year I feel good. There are no withdrawal symptoms and I've had moments of happiness again. 

 

I still have no libido. It's heavily affecting my relationship and I'm worried he'll leave me over this.

 

Feeling very stuck at the moment. I want to get off the drugs but as soon as I try, I fall apart.

[ChessieCat]

Well there are 3 huge positives.  You are feeling greatly improved and you didn't have to go back to 175mg and you had been on 300mg at the highest dose and you didn't start the Ritalin.

 

And you now know the better way to taper.  When you do decide to taper you could try making a small test reduction first to prove to yourself that it is okay and that you are able to taper.  You could then do a larger reduction and then a full 10%.  This way you will gain confidence that you aren't going to get the bad withdrawal symptoms like you did previously.  FYI some members find that when they get to the very low doses, generally below 10mg or even less, they need to go slower so just keep that in mind for later.

 

Being realistic if you had tapered off 300mg reducing by 10% of the current dose with a four week hold it would have taken you about 9 months to get to about 116mg shown below.

 

So when you look at those figures you aren't really that far off where you would have been with a "proper" taper.  Tapering off 100mg can take about 5 1/2 years at the 10% every 4 weeks rate if you don't do any additional holds so in the scheme of things the extra 6 months isn't really too bad.

 

Dose	Mth	Date
300		Oct 2019
270	1	Nov
243	2	Dec
218.7	3	Jan 2020
196.83	4	Feb
177.147	5	Mar
159.4323	6	Apr
143.48907	7	May
129.140163	8	Jun
116.226147	9	July

[manymoretodays]

Hey mooki24, @mooki24

Your signature looks good now, and workable.

Sorry, I never saw your post in signatures.

To update/edit just go to AccountSetting/signature and when done, hit the Save button.

I've since condensed mine.

And if you remove the spacing between lines, you'll have room for more.  Once edited, only 12 lines allowed, including blank lines.

 

And how are you doing?  Update?

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 23, 2021 by manymoretodays