Bea123: amitriptyline

[mstimc]

I knew I had something to offer after I recovered.  You're a doctor--you will be able to use your skills to help others for many years.  All of us have a value far beyond what anxiety and withdrawal try to tell us.

[Bea123]

Could you feel emotions during your Withrawal? I cant. Sometimes i think if my mum or a friend died i wouldnt feel anything 

Thats scary

[mstimc]

Sometimes I didn't feel much at all.  Anxiety sucks up all your emotions--its very selfish and demands all of your attention. 

[Altostrata]

23 hours ago, Bea123 said:

Do you think my bad reaction Is due to serotonine or cholinergic rebound and cholinergic receptors hypersensitivity?

 

I don't know. You were taking the drug for such a short time, a "rebound" reaction does not seem likely. Rather, the chemical exposure shook your nervous system.

 

Much of withdrawal syndrome is dysautonomia, which can be iatrogenic and temporary. Even if you had a test, there is no definite treatment for dysautonomia. Staying calm, getting gentle exercise, keeping a regular sleep schedule, eating healthy food -- all are recommended for dysautonomia.

 

If you are able to concentrate and feel safe working in a laboratory, you could work if you wish. It might take your mind off your worry about the adverse drug reaction. You will need to be patient while your nervous system settles down.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

[Altostrata]

On 4/2/2020 at 5:17 PM, Bea123 said:

My sleep Is bad due to desperation and i pass all my time on bed. No ive never tried clonazepam before Prozac. The psychiatrist gave me them together.

But the great damage done by the amytriptiline was done before 

 

Were you taking clonazepam along with Prozac? When did you start clonazepam, how often did you take it? Are you taking it now?

 

If you are keeping yourself awake with worry, you need to change that habit to allow your recovery to proceed. Read

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[Bea123]

6 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

I don't know. You were taking the drug for such a short time, a "rebound" reaction does not seem likely. Rather, the chemical exposure shook your nervous system.

 

Much of withdrawal syndrome is dysautonomia, which can be iatrogenic and temporary. Even if you had a test, there is no definite treatment for dysautonomia. Staying calm, getting gentle exercise, keeping a regular sleep schedule, eating healthy food -- all are recommended for dysautonomia.

 

If you are able to concentrate and feel safe working in a laboratory, you could work if you wish. It might take your mind off your worry about the adverse drug reaction. You will need to be patient while your nervous system settles down.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

Thank you. Do you think keeping with the Prozac Is going to deteriorate my improvements? 

Also have you ever heard of the lack of emotions in wd? I dont feel anything 

[Bea123]

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Were you taking clonazepam along with Prozac? When did you start clonazepam, how often did you take it? Are you taking it now?

 

If you are keeping yourself awake with worry, you need to change that habit to allow your recovery to proceed. Read

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

Yes the psychiatrist gave me prozac and then clonazepam because prozac gave me tinnitus which Is very bad. I still take It sometimes. I took It 4 times in total in a month 15 drops

[Altostrata]

8 minutes ago, Bea123 said:

Also have you ever heard of the lack of emotions in wd? I dont feel anything 

 

We are very familiar with all your symptoms. See our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for discussions of symptoms.

 

If you can avoid it, please do not take clonazepam. It can cause more problems than it solves.

 

Emotional anesthesia is also a common adverse effect from taking antidepressants. How much Prozac are you taking now?

 

This is important: Follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Bea123]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

We are very familiar with all your symptoms. See our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for discussions of symptoms.

 

If you can avoid it, please do not take clonazepam. It can cause more problems than it solves.

 

Emotional anesthesia is also a common adverse effect from taking antidepressants. How much Prozac are you taking now?

 

This is important: Follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

Im now on 30 mg of Prozac. I take It at around 2 pm

[Bea123]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

We are very familiar with all your symptoms. See our Symptoms and Self-Care forum for discussions of symptoms.

 

If you can avoid it, please do not take clonazepam. It can cause more problems than it solves.

 

Emotional anesthesia is also a common adverse effect from taking antidepressants. How much Prozac are you taking now?

 

This is important: Follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

Can you see the history now in the signature? I think i added It 

[Altostrata]

Yes, I see your signature, thank you.

 

As we've discussed before, you may be taking too much Prozac for your nervous system. Reduction of Prozac may reduce the emotional anesthesia.

 

Increase in Prozac will not reduce the emotional anesthesia. Adding another drug will not reduce the emotional anesthesia. It is a common adverse effect of many psychiatric drugs. It probably will slowly resolve after you go off all the drugs.

[Bea123]

Thank you for giving me hope!

The emotional anestesia came when i stopped the amytriptiline and never went away since then. So ive had It for 2 months before starting Prozac...this makes me think it's not related with Prozac maybe but it Is amy Withrawal?

How would you reduce the dose of Prozac? 10% per week?

[Altostrata]

On 4/2/2020 at 4:33 PM, Altostrata said:

....

 

If I were you, I'd go back to 10mg Prozac, let us know how you're doing every day. You may feel changes over a couple of weeks as the Prozac is metabolized, it has a long half-life.

 

....

 

You've been taking 30mg Prozac only a couple of weeks, correct? You'd simply reduce to 10mg. You have 10mg capsules, do you not?

[Bea123]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

You've been taking 30mg Prozac only a couple of weeks, correct? You'd simply reduce to 10mg. You have 10mg capsules, do you not?

Yes, the problem Is im forced by psychiatrist and parents to take 30, i dont know what to do. I told them i feel worse since the med but they dont believe me. The tinnitus Is umbearable

[Bea123]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

You've been taking 30mg Prozac only a couple of weeks, correct? You'd simply reduce to 10mg. You have 10mg capsules, do you not?

If i go down to 10 for how manu days i have to keep on this dose before i stop?

[Altostrata]

Bea, you need to find out what happens when you reduce the dose before you can figure out what to do next.

 

It could be you feel much better at a lower dose of Prozac. If so, you'd rest there for some months and then start tapering off.

 

The longer you wait to reduce from 30mg to 10mg, the more likely it is your system will accommodate to 30mg. This puts you at risk for withdrawal should you reduce.

[Bea123]

Do you think Is It too late to reintroduce Amytriptiline and then taper It? Since all this started from that 

[Altostrata]

You do not have withdrawal syndrome from going off amitriptyline, you didn't take it long enough for withdrawal. It appears you had an adverse reaction to the drug, which destabilized your nervous system. The symptoms are identical to post-acute withdrawal syndrome, but it is not withdrawal syndrome.

 

If you tried amitriptyline again, it's likely you'd have the same adverse reaction, or worse.

 

Now that you're taking Prozac, you can't just switch to amitriptyline anyway, or you might get withdrawal from Prozac. It's possible you're taking too much Prozac and you would feel better with less.

 

What do you want to do?

 

Please note that this is a Web site for going off drugs. We're not doctors or psychotherapists. If you want to be treated with psychiatric drugs for your worries, you will have to see a doctor.

[Bea123]

http://m.duluthreader.com/articles/2015/05/07/5262_mitochondrial_collateral_damage_thanks_to_big

[Altostrata]

Bea, how can we help you here?

 

We're not doctors. We don't treat mitochondrial damage, if that's what you think you have. We support people in tapering drugs or coping with the nervous system destabilization of withdrawal.

 

We are not going to confirm your irrational belief that you are permanently damaged.

 

I've posted what I know, I'm not sure there's anything more I can say.

[mstimc]

On 4/5/2020 at 3:30 PM, Bea123 said:

http://m.duluthreader.com/articles/2015/05/07/5262_mitochondrial_collateral_damage_thanks_to_big

 

Bea, you are a doctor and know the importance of empirical evidence.   If you look long and hard enough on the Internet, you can find "evidence" of just about anything.  if you search "5G" and "coronavirus" you can find plenty of "proof" that 5G networks are making us susceptible to cornoavirus.   Try using your analytical skills and do some reality checking--is it more likely your symptoms are withdrawal-related or the result of obscure and often-unproven theories?

 

 

[Bea123]

The evidence shows me that my muscle are gone in only 2 weeks and also my sensitivity and i developed dysautonomia and i cant feel emotions. If It was only anhedonia id agree with you but i had also phisical changes that make me think of a cells damage 

[Bea123]

@Altostrata i have been to the psychiatrist and told her i want to go off Prozac. She eventually agreed and im taking 20 mg instead of 30 starting from tomorrow and then i Will go to 10 and stop. What do you think?

Thank you for your help

[mstimc]

Bea

 

Please see the attached link for the recommended Prozac taper

 

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Bea123 said:

@Altostrata i have been to the psychiatrist and told her i want to go off Prozac. She eventually agreed and im taking 20 mg instead of 30 starting from tomorrow and then i Will go to 10 and stop. What do you think?

Thank you for your help

 

I think going from 30mg to 20mg for a week is a good idea. You need to see what effect that has. If you don't get a withdrawal reaction after a week, I would decrease to 10mg and stop there for at least a month.

 

I would not ever quit 10mg Prozac cold turkey after taking it for more than a month. It needs to be tapered. Besides, you may feel better when you're taking 10mg Prozac. You don't know that yet.

 

I am surprised you do not remember the principles of hypothesis, test, observe results, reformulate hypothesis.

[Bea123]

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

 

I think going from 30mg to 20mg for a week is a good idea. You need to see what effect that has. If you don't get a withdrawal reaction after a week, I would decrease to 10mg and stop there for at least a month.

 

I would not ever quit 10mg Prozac cold turkey after taking it for more than a month. It needs to be tapered. Besides, you may feel better when you're taking 10mg Prozac. You don't know that yet.

 

I am surprised you do not remember the principles of hypothesis, test, observe results, reformulate hypothesis.

The thing is I am at the 'observing results' stage now. I Will see if i can reformulate later. 

Thank you so much for your tapering advices! 

[Altostrata]

Please let us know the results of your observations before moving on to the next test step. We may be able to help you design a good experiment.

[Bea123]

@Altostrata second day i take 20 instead of 30 and i feel the same (maybe a bit Better). Went to psych again and She suggested to take 20 mg One day and nothing the next day for a while (dont know for how much). What do you think?

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Bea123 said:

She suggested to take 20 mg One day and nothing the next day for a while (dont know for how much).

 

I wouldn't do this. You do not want the blood level of the drug going up and down, and you do not want to go cold turkey from 20mg.

 

As I explained before, you need to take 20mg consistently for a week to see the effect of the decrease. If you're feeling better, we had discussed reducing to 10mg.

 

Please re-read this topic when you have questions like this.

[Bea123]

I think i feel a bit Better @Altostrata. The depression comes when i think of how much i changed phisically but i think anhedonia Is lowering a bit. Im on 20 mg

[Altostrata]

If you feel a little bit better, that's a good sign, Bea. Fluoxetine has such a long half-life, it will take some time for you to feel the full effect of the reduction. I would observe for a week or 2 and see how your symptom pattern changes.

[Bea123]

Thank you @Altostrata. Have you had experiences of someone whos phisical changes became Better too with time?

 

[Altostrata]

Given the vast range of human experience, the answer to those questions is always yes.

[Bea123]

@Altostrata no change in my feelings...still feel nothing at all. I don't think It Is a good sign 

[Altostrata]

On 4/12/2020 at 11:11 AM, Altostrata said:

If you feel a little bit better, that's a good sign, Bea. Fluoxetine has such a long half-life, it will take some time for you to feel the full effect of the reduction. I would observe for a week or 2 and see how your symptom pattern changes.

 

There is no need for you to report a lack of change in symptom pattern. We already know it will take a week or 2 for the reduction to have full effect.

 

Even so, you may still feel emotional anesthesia, as you are still taking Prozac. This is a common adverse effect of antidepressants. It is the way antidepressants "work", you might say. Some people like not being able to feel their emotions.

 

Emotional anesthesia may persist after you go off completely, very gradually fading over time.

 

This is a common adverse effect of the drugs and does not mean the drug has damaged you. It is the normal, expected action of the drug.

[Bea123]

Thank you @Altostrata, It Is Always encouraging what you Say and makes me go through everything every day.