Moderator Go2zero Posted December 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2020 On 7/16/2011 at 10:28 PM, Altostrata said: Expand Also this seems to show that XL and XR are the same.... I still do not understand the high weight of your Wellbutrin pill MollyMac. Maybe you can upload a photo of the pill with code and also the packaging of the pill? I am also stressing this because I hope you are using really the 150 mg pil and not a 300 mg version or so. Don't want to upset you. Maybe your scales just need to be calibrated or so. 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 I'm getting so confused! I'm in Ireland. Our tablets look very different. Mine has no writing on it. I really appreciate the input, but I think I'll just continue going down based on my measurements - or my brain will pop. My partner is helping me do it, and he's doing a good job. I have faith in his abilities. It's too much like school for me! On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
MollyMac Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 (edited) Hi, I have never been on a 300mg tablet. They don't exist here. Edited December 9, 2020 by ChessieCat removed quote On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted December 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2020 Sorry MollyMac, really do no want to confuse you! Just continue as you are doing. Maybe you could upload a picture of the packaging and the container of the pills? This might help to learn what kind of pills you are exactly taking. 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 I totally will, once I can get them. The pharmacy has been giving them to me in a clear packet. Haven't had a box in a while. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 8, 2020 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 8, 2020 Hi MM, It looks like I did not put in what your next dose, will be, in the mgai(again milligrams of active ingredient, this helps distinguish the dose from the weight, which are not expected to be the same, and what we also like to know) I'll just share my previous maths post: And then if you take your current dose strength, which is 101.78 mgai and again multiply by .90 101.78 mgai X .90 = 91.6 mgai this represents your new dose, with your next 10% taper @Go2zeroI just was going with the weights given. As far as the XL or XR, yes, both, do usually stand for extended length, or extended release forms. I think as long as MollyMac is working with the same tablets that she has been working with, that we will be okay. Okay, and be well, L, P, H, and G, mmt Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted December 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2020 There is a very good possibility that the pills Molly is using are from a different manufacturer. Even though they are called the same thing they can have a very different size, shape and weight. There are at least 16 different companies making Wellbutrin XL 150mg tablets and each one is allowed to be different as long as they meet specific strength and bioavailability requirements. This is a big reason why we ask each individual member to give us specific information about their tablets when we are doing calculations, and why we have to recalculate things when anyone makes a brand name change. Thank you for expressing concern go2zero, it's very easy to get all these numbers mixed up. Let's see what Molly's pictures or information tell us. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted December 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2020 On 12/8/2020 at 4:09 PM, MollyMac said: I totally will, once I can get them. The pharmacy has been giving them to me in a clear packet. Haven't had a box in a while. Do you get the pill loose in a clear packet? Or are they in a strip? If they are in a strip, is there something written on? I have never seen Wellbutrin without any writing on it. Therefor I am really wondering what pills your pharmacy gave you exactly. But as manymoretodays says, as long as you stick to the same pills as you take now, the maths will be ok. 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
TiredOfDrugs Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Molly, it sounds like your tapering is going really well! Correct me if I'm wrong for speaking on your behalf Molly, but for others, I'm pretty sure that Molly is taking Zyban 150mg, which is the only form of bupropion hydrochloride available in our country. I imagine Molly "translated" it to Wellbutrin XL for ease of understanding for international forum members, but the tablets would be of different sizes and weights to Wellbutrin XL as consumed in other countries. On antidepressants since 2005 when I was 18 for anxiety/depressive disorder. 2005-2009 - I've taken citalopram, sertraline, mirtazapine, fluoxetine, duloxetine, olanzapine, lamotrigine...loads of SSRIs, SNRIs, antipsychotics and some odd ones like agomelatine, too many for me to remember. I also have memory problems, probably as a result of all the meds which I often took together at high doses. I've also taken zopiclone/zolpidem and benzodiazepines in the past to help with sleep. Jan 2009-Jan 2013 - Duloxetine and Bupropion, gradually titrated down from the Duloxetine Jan 2013-Jan 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 150mg evening = 300mg daily Jan 2020-Feb 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 75mg evening = 225mg daily Feb 2020-Apr 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 75mg evening = 150mg daily Apr 2020-Jun 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 37.5mg evening = 112.5mg daily Jun 2020-Aug 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 37.5g evening = 75mg daily Aug 2020-Sep 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 18.75 evening = 56.25mg daily Sep 2020-Oct 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 18.75mg morning, 18.75mg evening = 37.5mg daily I stopped taking Zyban completely on 28th October and I'm currently feeling great, no ill effects. Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted December 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2020 I am also pretty sure it might be Zyban for the reason you describe TiredofDrugs. But Zyban pills DO have a print on 1 side which says GX CH7. And Zyban always comes packed in blisters, whereas Wellbutrin come in a container. See this for more info: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/3827/smpc#gref 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted December 9, 2020 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 9, 2020 I think we will find out, when MM gets back. If you go to page one, too, of MM's introduction, you can see more about what she came in taking. It was stated as 150 mg WellbutrinXL And then, more recently, difficulty in getting the same brand, in Ireland right now too. I think they might have it covered, staying with the same brand/type for a little longer, at least, and ......fingers crossed MM, for this! Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
Colonial Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) On 12/8/2020 at 10:09 AM, MollyMac said: The pharmacy has been giving them to me in a clear packet. Haven't had a box in a while. That reminds me of the 1960's here in the states. I did the compounding pharmacy from 12.5 mgs on down. Took me almost 2 more years but the med was in plastic capsules and they were easy to open and put on my tongue. Edited December 9, 2020 by Colonial Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg. 12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs, 11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs 4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs, 9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs. Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg for 20 days to: 5/6/15: 100mg for 15 days to: 5/21/15 75mg for 10 days to: 6/1/15: 56.25mg 13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg 7 days to: 6/20/15 28.12mg 14 days to: 7/4/15 18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg 20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6 4/9/17 7.2 5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs, 4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18: 3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS... Link to comment
MollyMac Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 On 12/9/2020 at 5:09 PM, TiredOfDrugs said: Molly, it sounds like your tapering is going really well! Correct me if I'm wrong for speaking on your behalf Molly, but for others, I'm pretty sure that Molly is taking Zyban 150mg, which is the only form of bupropion hydrochloride available in our country. I imagine Molly "translated" it to Wellbutrin XL for ease of understanding for international forum members, but the tablets would be of different sizes and weights to Wellbutrin XL as consumed in other countries. That's it exactly! Thank you! It is very moving to come on here and find complete strangers speaking about my tapering steps in my absence. Thank you. You folks are the best. *gives virtual hugs @Colonial- no capsules here. That would have been great! My partner has kindly worked out the exact measurements and amounts to add to my signature, but he's not here right now. Suffice to say, I'm 100% happy I'm going down in the correct increments. I'm just 100% crap at math - so I can't give you the info or my head swims. I'm all about words. Numbers are my kryptonite. UPDATE - I went down by another 10% on my previous amount on Monday 14th December. All fine till Thursday 17th when I went for a nap (which I never do) and woke up like the world had ended. Sad, cross, blank, miserable, tired. It wasn't till the following day that I realised that it was the cut. So, I dragged myself up to do some yoga, went for a walk, was generally nicer to myself. But I've been grouchy and low for days. Today is Tuesday, a week and a day later - and I'm feeling slowly better. Quite teary and defensive, but better. It was a very clear line from before to after, which was helpful. But - how sensitive am I? It's crazy! Most people don't even notice the drops on Zyban. Honestly, sometimes it feels like if a mouse sneezed three houses over I'd feel it in the force. Will update sig this weekend. 1 On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
TiredOfDrugs Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Hi Molly, well done for persisting, and happy New Year! I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong with being more sensitive to the drops in Zyban dosage than other people, though I know it's frustrating - I think we all respond differently and we all have different degrees of neurological injury as a result of our experience with psych meds in the past. I found Zyban okay to get off but Cymbalta was a nightmare - it took me years of counting the little balls inside the capsules, reducing so so gradually, before I managed to stop. Congratulations for persisting on this hard road - there are sunny days on the other side On antidepressants since 2005 when I was 18 for anxiety/depressive disorder. 2005-2009 - I've taken citalopram, sertraline, mirtazapine, fluoxetine, duloxetine, olanzapine, lamotrigine...loads of SSRIs, SNRIs, antipsychotics and some odd ones like agomelatine, too many for me to remember. I also have memory problems, probably as a result of all the meds which I often took together at high doses. I've also taken zopiclone/zolpidem and benzodiazepines in the past to help with sleep. Jan 2009-Jan 2013 - Duloxetine and Bupropion, gradually titrated down from the Duloxetine Jan 2013-Jan 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 150mg evening = 300mg daily Jan 2020-Feb 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 75mg evening = 225mg daily Feb 2020-Apr 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 75mg evening = 150mg daily Apr 2020-Jun 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 37.5mg evening = 112.5mg daily Jun 2020-Aug 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 37.5g evening = 75mg daily Aug 2020-Sep 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 18.75 evening = 56.25mg daily Sep 2020-Oct 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 18.75mg morning, 18.75mg evening = 37.5mg daily I stopped taking Zyban completely on 28th October and I'm currently feeling great, no ill effects. Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted May 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2021 Hi MollyMac, how are you doing with your tapering process? 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted May 8, 2021 Author Share Posted May 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Go2zero said: Hi MollyMac, how are you doing with your tapering process? HI there, thank you for checking! You're very kind. I have put the tapering on hold while other things took off. Although there's never a quiet time, but I'm resigned to it all taking another year. At least. How are you doing? On 1/7/2021 at 12:32 PM, TiredOfDrugs said: Hi Molly, well done for persisting, and happy New Year! I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong with being more sensitive to the drops in Zyban dosage than other people, though I know it's frustrating - I think we all respond differently and we all have different degrees of neurological injury as a result of our experience with psych meds in the past. I found Zyban okay to get off but Cymbalta was a nightmare - it took me years of counting the little balls inside the capsules, reducing so so gradually, before I managed to stop. Congratulations for persisting on this hard road - there are sunny days on the other side I'm so sorry I did not respond. Life took off again and I had to knock cycling down on the head. Thank you for what you wrote. I hope you are doing ok? xx On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted May 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, MollyMac said: HI there, thank you for checking! You're very kind. I have put the tapering on hold while other things took off. Although there's never a quiet time, but I'm resigned to it all taking another year. At least. How are you doing? OK, I understand. Hope you are feeling OK staying on a fixed dose? I am still going steady down with my Prozac tapering. It goes slower as desired, but I will get there. After that I will further taper down my Wellbutrin (bupropion). Hopefully that goes easier without the prozac. I did not taper the bupropion since last years April. Wish you all the best for now! 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted May 8, 2021 Author Share Posted May 8, 2021 Feeling ok on the fixed dose for now. Other factors make life a bit much, but that's not one for the moment! Well done on the prozac tapering. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
TiredOfDrugs Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I'm glad to hear you're doing okay MollyMac, and making the best decisions for your mind and body at the moment. I'm well, feeling good since I stopped taking Zyban last October, sleeping better. I know you'll get to where you want to be too 🙂 On antidepressants since 2005 when I was 18 for anxiety/depressive disorder. 2005-2009 - I've taken citalopram, sertraline, mirtazapine, fluoxetine, duloxetine, olanzapine, lamotrigine...loads of SSRIs, SNRIs, antipsychotics and some odd ones like agomelatine, too many for me to remember. I also have memory problems, probably as a result of all the meds which I often took together at high doses. I've also taken zopiclone/zolpidem and benzodiazepines in the past to help with sleep. Jan 2009-Jan 2013 - Duloxetine and Bupropion, gradually titrated down from the Duloxetine Jan 2013-Jan 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 150mg evening = 300mg daily Jan 2020-Feb 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 75mg evening = 225mg daily Feb 2020-Apr 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 75mg evening = 150mg daily Apr 2020-Jun 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 37.5mg evening = 112.5mg daily Jun 2020-Aug 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 37.5g evening = 75mg daily Aug 2020-Sep 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 18.75 evening = 56.25mg daily Sep 2020-Oct 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 18.75mg morning, 18.75mg evening = 37.5mg daily I stopped taking Zyban completely on 28th October and I'm currently feeling great, no ill effects. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 On 5/8/2021 at 9:37 PM, TiredOfDrugs said: I'm glad to hear you're doing okay MollyMac, and making the best decisions for your mind and body at the moment. I'm well, feeling good since I stopped taking Zyban last October, sleeping better. I know you'll get to where you want to be too 🙂 Thank you! Glad you are where you need to be with the Zyban. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
MollyMac Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 Hello folks, I hope you are all doing ok? May I ask a question about the later stages of tapering? I've been tapering down quietly over the past year, waiting several months between cuts. I am now at 0.06 grams three times a day. Each taper is rough. About 5 days after the cut I have a rocky fortnight. It's not fun. My question is: should I be cutting by less than 10% now that the amounts are so low? Thank you for reading! On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted July 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, MollyMac said: I've been tapering down quietly over the past year, waiting several months between cuts. I am now at 0.06 grams three times a day. On 5/8/2021 at 9:25 PM, Go2zero said: I have put the tapering on hold while other things took off. Although there's never a quiet time, but I'm resigned to it all taking another year. At least. Hi Molly Mac, I am a bit confused here. I understood you took a long hold for at least a year? But do I understand that you continued tapering again? Please explain what you mean with 0,06 grams 3 times a day. Is this pill weight or active ingredient weight? Can you please update your signature with ALL details (all dates and dosage changes in mg)? Please do not only mention percentage of tapering only, since we do not have a clue then what the exact dosage was you were taking at that moment. As soon as you provide this information, we can advise you further. 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted July 24, 2021 Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2021 MollyMac, I just went through your post again and I still wonder what kind of Zyban you are taking. - What is the exact dose of the full pill according to the packaging? - Do you still get them in blank packaging, or do you have a brandname on it. - Is there a code printed on the pills you use right now, or do they still come blank? - Is the pillwwight still 420mg ? If not, what is the weight for 1 full pill? This is all very important information we need, before we can advise you in the right way. 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 22 minutes ago, Go2zero said: Hi Molly Mac, I am a bit confused here. I understood you took a long hold for at least a year? But do I understand that you continued tapering again? Please explain what you mean with 0,06 grams 3 times a day. Is this pill weight or active ingredient weight? Can you please update your signature with ALL details (all dates and dosage changes in mg)? Please do not only mention percentage of tapering only, since we do not have a clue then what the exact dosage was you were taking at that moment. As soon as you provide this information, we can advise you further. Hello Go2zero, Thank you for responding. I did take a break from tapering for a while. I never mentioned taking a year off. Just a few months? I was referring to pill weight. Apologies for not being specific. I find that side of things well nigh impossible to articulate. I won't be able to update the signature with all the amounts, because I didn't keep track of the pill weight of each drop. I simply went down by 10% of the pill weight I had been taking each time. But for now - I have attached a photo of the weight of the full tablet, and the weight of one of the capsules. I take three of these capsules a day. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
MollyMac Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, Go2zero said: MollyMac, I just went through your post again and I still wonder what kind of Zyban you are taking. - What is the exact dose of the full pill according to the packaging? - Do you still get them in blank packaging, or do you have a brandname on it. - Is there a code printed on the pills you use right now, or do they still come blank? - Is the pillwwight still 420mg ? If not, what is the weight for 1 full pill? This is all very important information we need, before we can advise you in the right way. I'm on Zyban 150mg Pro Rel tabs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted July 25, 2021 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) Hi MM! So good to see you. And hope that life is treating you well enough. And a huge welcome/thankyou to @Go2zero who is now a moderator! Congratulations. Go2 is also tapering the wicked buproprion. So you are in great hands!! I could not resist popping in to do some math. So here's what I get now: Molly started this taper with 150 mg buproprion prolonged release(Zyban) last July in the year 2020. The 150 mgai(mg active ingredient/dose strength) pill weighed 0.420 grams, or converted to mgpw(mg pill weight) is 420 mgpw. So.....now, about one year later..."July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams)" I just calculate using some kind of algebraic formula or cross fractions or something....... but it works. So I start with a 150 mgai tablet, which is by weight is 420 mgpw And want to solve for what is the mgai of 180 mgpw(this is the .060 readout on her scale, or 60 mgpw multiplied by 3, as she takes 3 homemade capsules each day of pill fragments) And ooh, MM, I hope you still have the loving kind support of a friend that helps you with math and preparation of doses and all. And do correct me, if I'm wrong, on that you take the .060 g weight reading on your scale, for each dose, of 3 per day. I come up with the present daily dose of 64.2 mgai or dose strength. Molly divides this daily dose into 3, and I believe loads capsules with the weighed pill fragments. So then each of the 3 daily doses is presently at 21.4 mgai. Again the mgai is for milligrams of active ingredient, or the dose strength. And this is what we want to see noted in your signature too MollyMac. mgpw represents the milligrams by weight. Those are the nice abbreviations that brassmonkey developed to help distinguish between dose and weight. And they are nice. Saves on confusion between doses and weights. So, Molly's dose now, and check my math please Go2.......is 64.2 mg/day total. MM, if you'd edit your signature with your dose at present, that would be super. The 64.2 mg/day after we get confirmation. I just like a recheck on my maths most of the time......just me, gaining confidence I guess, and it's so easy to make a typo. And you are correct, that the decreases won't seem as large now, that you are getting down in total daily dosage. 10% from each previous dose, starts becoming less and less in mgai. But look at you go.....you are more than halfway down from your starting dosage now! Slow and steady, like the turtle! Anyway......so hope you are faring good MollyMac. And I hope you are getting some super, even if just momentary breaks from the endless jobs of work, kids, pets, kooky housewivery, and broken down cars, and computer systems(at times). Much Love, peace, healing, and growth, mmt hope that's helpful and doesn't strain anyone's eyes.....I'm awfully wordish, and have to use some purple, at all times.....💜😇 Edited July 25, 2021 by manymoretodays clarity? Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
MollyMac Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 Thank you @manymoretodays! It's lovely to hear from you. And congratulations to you @Go2zero btw! I'm going to take a few days to work out all that you posted, as my brain goes flat in this arena. I will ask my lovely helper to advise too, and then upgrade my signature. I'm touched that you took the time to remember/research and reference all that you did. You're kind. It landed very well. I guess my only question had been should I reduce by something like 5% rather than the 10% cuts I've been doing, on the basis that each cut really floors me for a few weeks. Or, should they get easier given that, as you explained, the decreases are less of the overall dose each time. I suppose I can really answer that question myself, with a yes. It's no harm to reduce how much I reduce by, if I'm finding it hard each time. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus manymoretodays Posted July 25, 2021 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted July 25, 2021 And hugs. 3 minutes ago, MollyMac said: I guess my only question had been should I reduce by something like 5% rather than the 10% cuts I've been doing, on the basis that each cut really floors me for a few weeks. Or, should they get easier given that, as you explained, the decreases are less of the overall dose each time. Yes, you can definitely taper by less than 10% of each dose, if you'd like to MollyMac. That might ease the WD symptoms a bit, so that you aren't floored quite as hard. And that's a great potential plan. Often the tapers do get more difficult, at the lower dosages. dose in mgai, or mgpw X .95 = the amount of a 5% taper Best. L, P, H, and G. mmt Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks. Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988. In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm. Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time). 5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014) 12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs. My last psycho med ever! Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to 2016 Dec 16, medication free!! Longer signature post here, with current supplements. Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed. Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022. Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜 None of my posts are intended as medical advice. Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. My success story: Blue skies ahead, clear sailing Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted July 25, 2021 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) Thanks @manymoretodays for all your math. Looks great! I checked you math and it is perfect! The only question remains if the 0,06gram includes the capsule or not. That would change the daily dose quite a lot.... @MollyMac Good that we have clear now what pill you are taking, now you have pills with a code printed on them. Thank you for providing all information. To assist you best in tapering we need to check 1 more important thing. And that is the dose you are taking at the moment. Manymoredays did some great math, but 1 thing is unclear. You show the picture of a capsule that you take three times a day. The reading on the scales says 0,06 gram (60 mg) MollyMac can you please tell me (if you do not know please ask your helper) if this 0,06 gram includes the weight of the capsule. Or was the scale set at zero by "Tare" with an empty capsule first. We only want to know how much pill weight is INSIDE the capsule, so without weighing the capsule itself. Therefor this important question. A second question to check how much you are taking and to be fully sure: How many dosages in of 0,06 gram does you helper gets from 1 pill? I agree with Manymoretodays that you can make smaller steps down. This is always OK. Listening to your body is always best. We all react differently, so there is never 1 good answer for everybody. But I cannot say enough that it IS important for us to know how much you are taking. Tapering lower dosages often ask for other approaches than higher dosages. Edited July 26, 2021 by Go2zero 1 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 Hi Go2zero, yes - the weight included the weight of the capsule, because my helper said the capsule weighed so little it barely registered. I confess I am utterly confused now as to what to update my signature with, or how to answer some of the questions. What is 'tare'? Also, you ask - 'How many dosages in of 0,06 gram does you helper gets from 1 pill?' He creates the powder, and then makes the capsules. It never occurred to us to see how many he gets out of one pill. This is so difficult, I would be really in trouble if he were not doing this part for me. It's like I have numbers/measurements dyslexia - the extent to which I can't understand what is being said or asked. Or maybe others are the same? I can write you any number of articles and essays, but these measurement questions leave me 🥶😨😵😫 I'm not doing so well since the last cut. I usually get back on track about 3 weeks after the cut, but am low and blank and negative every morning, perking up a bit in the evening. My dreams are exhausting, and life is too much. This may be why I have tried to read and respond to your email over and over, and I just can't follow it. I'm glad you are cutting successfully down on Wellbutrin and Prozac. Your signature reads very well! Do you sniff the lavender oil when anxious? I think I will buy some L-Theanine. You say it helped your severe discontinuation effects? On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
MollyMac Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 Apologies - you are tapering just the prozac for now. I know you are holding off on the Wellbrutin tapers. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
MollyMac Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 Really struggling. Just writing it down to have it here. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
TiredOfDrugs Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 1 hour ago, MollyMac said: Really struggling. Just writing it down to have it here. Oh Molly, I'm so sorry to hear how hard it is for you right now. I so admire your bravery and resilience during such a difficult time. I definitely found that tapering got harder the lower I went - I agree with manymoretodays, that maybe going down by 5pc rather than 10pc would be an idea for you at the moment? It sounds like you're looking more for emotional support on this forum rather than support with the maths of reduction, which I can understand when you have a trusted helper who understands and takes this seriously. I'm sorry I haven't been posting much but I have been reading and appreciating your updates, and I'm in your corner. Does anything help when you feel you are struggling? When I was finding it hard I made a list of things that helped me to feel better - first all the things that helped, then I sorted them into categories - things I can do right now, things that take less than ten minutes, things that I can plan to do later, things that take an hour or more, etc. So if I felt I was spiralling in my thoughts I could do a breathing exercise or visualise myself in a safe place, or if I started feeling I was getting down I could plan to ring a friend/my Mam later on, things like that. I hope that makes sense! The reason why making a list was helpful for me was because if I was struggling/feeling low/feeling panicky I wasn't able to think clearly, and it felt hopeless, like all the good was gone out of the world. I wrote the list during a time of hopefulness. I hope that's not too off-topic - and I hope you have loving people around you to call on when the days are hard. On antidepressants since 2005 when I was 18 for anxiety/depressive disorder. 2005-2009 - I've taken citalopram, sertraline, mirtazapine, fluoxetine, duloxetine, olanzapine, lamotrigine...loads of SSRIs, SNRIs, antipsychotics and some odd ones like agomelatine, too many for me to remember. I also have memory problems, probably as a result of all the meds which I often took together at high doses. I've also taken zopiclone/zolpidem and benzodiazepines in the past to help with sleep. Jan 2009-Jan 2013 - Duloxetine and Bupropion, gradually titrated down from the Duloxetine Jan 2013-Jan 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 150mg evening = 300mg daily Jan 2020-Feb 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 150mg morning, 75mg evening = 225mg daily Feb 2020-Apr 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 75mg evening = 150mg daily Apr 2020-Jun 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 75mg morning, 37.5mg evening = 112.5mg daily Jun 2020-Aug 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 37.5g evening = 75mg daily Aug 2020-Sep 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 37.5mg morning, 18.75 evening = 56.25mg daily Sep 2020-Oct 2020 - Zyban (Bupropion) 18.75mg morning, 18.75mg evening = 37.5mg daily I stopped taking Zyban completely on 28th October and I'm currently feeling great, no ill effects. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 Hi TiredofDrugs, thank you so much for the kind response. That means a lot. It really really does. You are exactly right. I really appreciate the feedback on this thread, but the mathematical details and new questions knock me sideways. It feels deeply ungrateful, because I really appreciate the support. I can see you went down successfully, that gives me hope. I think I will always have these days/weeks where I struggle, and you're right, I will look at making my list again. I had one, but my brain was melting so much no where felt like a safe space. In the mean time, I'm going to make the tapers so small that they have less of an effect. Just need to feel better for a few weeks first. Have a good day in London. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
Moderator Go2zero Posted August 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 4, 2021 On 7/30/2021 at 11:40 AM, MollyMac said: Hi Go2zero, yes - the weight included the weight of the capsule, because my helper said the capsule weighed so little it barely registered. I confess I am utterly confused now as to what to update my signature with, or how to answer some of the questions. What is 'tare'? Hi MollyMac, So sorry to read that you are having a hard time with WD. Most people seem to be able to get off bupropion quite easily, but some really have big difficulties. I have been experiencing this too when I came under a daily dosage of around 60mg. Later I had to stabilize for 8 months after a 2 mg drop from 35,3 to 33,3 mg and I went through hell. So I think I know what you are going through. I definitely want to try and help you to get down in dosage in a way that is bearable. Sorry for all the technical questions and math. But to be able to help you, we really need some very important basic info! When it is too difficult for you to understand or answer, feel free that I would communicate directly with your helper (in this thread). Maybe that is more relaxed for you. What we need to know is the exact dosage you are taking right now. I will explain how we can find this out: Your helper says that the capsules hardly weigh anything. That is true, but we need to know the weight anyhow. And it still might weigh more than you think. Since the weight of the capsule will be a bigger part of the total weight (capsule including bupropion) the more you taper. Another reason why it is important to know the weight is that the scales you are using are not fully exact in the very low regions. So if you weigh 6 mg, it could be 4,5,6,7 or 8 mg as well. A weight of 1-2 mg can hardly be weighed by these type of scales A good method to even these inaccuracies out, is weighing more capsule at 1 time and then divide the weight by the number of capsules. Then we get an average weight of a capsule, which is much more accurate than by weighing just 1 capsule. What I want to ask you (or your helper): 1) Please weigh 20 empty capsules in 1 time. Read out the total weight of these 20 capsules and report that here. 2) See if your helper could use 1 pill only to make capsules for you. The reason I say this, is that it is extremely difficult to make accurate dosages by only using the scales. I will try to explain how I do it and why: a) I take only 1 pill which I weigh first, to know if it has the right average weight of the pills we use. Some pills weigh much less and others much more than the average. It is OK to combine 2 pills (1 low weight and 1 high weight) to come again to the average of 1 "normal" pill. I hope you or your helper can follow this... b) Then I cut the pill in 18 pieces. This 18 has to do with the dosage I am taking. I take 33,3 mg per day divided in 4 small portions. The more I go down, the more pieces I cut out of 1 pill. Why do I say this? It is important that we have even amounts in dosage every day. This should be as accurate as possible, since taking uneven dosages too often, may result in extra WD symptoms. The advantage by dividing only 1 pill over the following days is that we know for sure that we have the exact right dose every time again over the period of time that 1 pill provides at the then given dosage. Still some differences will occur over this 1 pill period, but that will even out over these days. But when we cut or crush many pills in 1 time and trust on the scales, it will result in inaccuracies. The more we taper down, the more important the above becomes. Since at low dosages weighing with scales only gets more inaccurate. Therefor it is better to cut 1 pill only each time and divide that over the given period/dosage. I realize that this may blow your mind again. I advise you not to make it too complex for your self. I hope your helper understand this. And if not, I will be happy to communicate with him directly to explain further. 1993 Anafranil (Clomipramine) for a few months. Later in 1993 Paxil for a few months 1993- 2006 No medication 2006 Effexor, Cymbalta, some Benzo’s. All for short periods. Later in 2006 Lexapro (escitalopram) 10 mg and shortly after Wellbutrin XR 150mg, against side effects Lexapro Since 2006 until end of 2015: Several times on and off Lexapro and Wellbutrin and several slight dosage changes. Mostly taken dosages: 5mg Lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin 2016 Dosage change Lexapro from 5mg to 2,5 mg. Wellbutrin stayed om 150mg November 2016 – April 2017 Down from 2,5mg to 0,6mg Lexapro (in steps) without much problems. Wellbutrin down from 150mg to 66mg. Also without much problems. April 2017 – March 2019 Lexapro 0,6 mg April 2017 - August 2018 Wellbutrin in small steps down from 66mg in to 37,5 mg . Quite heavy WD after each step. March 2019 – May 2019 Lexapro down from 0,6 to 0,3mg then Prozac to 0,6 mg switch because severe discontinuation effects (may also have been from Wellbutrin..) Wellbutrin down from 37,5mg to 35,3mg October 2019 Seroquel 12,5 mg for 4 weeks because of extreme sleeping problems, then weaning off in 2 weeks Prozac up dosage to 1,2 mg March 2020 Wellbutrin in 2 steps down from 35,3mg to 33,3mg Extreme withdrawal effects during 8 months. Stopped tapering Wellbutrin until total off Prozac. February 2020 – November 2020 Prozac down in steps from 1,2mg to 0,57mg. Jan 2021 : Prozac down to: 0,55> 0,53>0,51mg, Feb 0,47mg , Mar 0,42mg, Apr 0,37, longer hold because of WD symptoms July 0,36 and hold again, Sept 19 0,35, Sept 26 0,34mg, Oct 3 0,33mg Long hold of 172 days until March 2022 January 20, 2022: Wellbutrin from 33,3 to 32,3mg March 22, 2022 Prozac down from 0,33mg to: 0,30mg, Apr 0,29, May 0,28, 0,27, June 0,26, 0,25, July 0,24, 0,23, 0,22, 0,21, Aug 0,20, 0,19 Sep 0,18, Oct 0,17. 0,16, 0,15, Nov 0,14 Jan 2023 0,13, 0,12, 0,11 Feb 0,10, 0,09 Mar 0,08 , June 0,07 , July 0,06, 0,05, Aug 0,04, 0,03, Sept 0,026, 0,024 Nov 0,022, 0,019, 0,016, 0,013 Dec 0,012, 0,011, 0,010, 0,009 Jan 2024 0,008, 0,007, 0,006, 0,005, 0,004, 0,003, 0,002, 0,001, Feb 0,0007. 0,0005, 0,0003, 0,0001, Feb 23, 2024: 0,00000 Wellbutrin resume tapering: Apr 2024 31,6mg, 30,8, 30 Supplements: Fish Oil (3000mg), Magnesium 100 mg, 2 drops of Lavender Oil, only when feeling extreme anxiety. 50mg of L-Theanine only when severe discontinuation effects caused by Wellbutrin Please note this is NOT a medical advice. Discuss all your medical issues with a doctor who understands psychical drugs and really knows how to withdraw from them. I wish that you will find one. Link to comment
MollyMac Posted August 4, 2021 Author Share Posted August 4, 2021 Thank you Go2Zero. I will show it to him. I appreciate the time you took to do that. I also am very interested to learn that you had such a tough reaction after a very small drop. I'm really finding this drop very hard, and I'm hoping it will settle soon. On Cymbalta for 10 years after PND. Original dose of 60mg was far too high. Tapered down over years. Tricky journey. Finally off October 2018. Once over the fallout, haven't looked back. Been on 150mg Prolonged Release Zyban for 3.5 yrs. It comes in blank plastic pouches. The code on the pill is GX CH7. The full pill weight is 0.42 grams. Starting tapering journey May 2020. Cut the tablet into 4 quarters. Found the pill cutter very inexact for this kind of tablet. Sizes varied hugely. Tried one half in morning and the other 2 quarters at regular intervals. Abandoned that plan fast, as half an immediate release made me feel like I'd had 300 coffees. Took a quarter every few hours instead. Which meant I dropped by a whole quarter. This had me bumpy for 2 weeks. 31st July - began skipping the middle 1/4 on alternating days. VERY BAD IDEA. Doctor's advice. Thanks to Chessiecat and Altostrata and went back to the 1/4 three times a day. 15th September went down by 10%;29th October went down by 10%;Mid December will cut 10% again. Approx three 10% cuts (pill weight) since January 2021 (2021). Each is pretty bumpy. July 2021 - Am now at 0.06 grams (pill weight) x 3 daily. (The whole pill weighs 0.42 grams) Link to comment
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